Well I have all the campaigns and been playing for 18 months, of which I have spent the last 6 months running a Hundred Blades build and more recently a typical Dragonslash build as a paragon secondary. I thought DS could not be beaten, specifically because of the ability to spam the elite skill. However I have recently started trialling an axe using a triple chop build with a rit secondary - and its great fun tanking and doing massive AOE damage.
I don't know if technically the DS build is better than the triple chop build, but running an axe does seem to be pretty good, hovever it also seems to need more energy to run.
just gone axe & lovin it !
h9dlb
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by h9dlb
I don't know if technically the DS build is better than the triple chop build, but running an axe does seem to be pretty good, hovever it also seems to need more energy to run.
Triple Chop builds deal more raw (AoE) damage than DSlash. If you've got an invincigon or another warrior already covering "SY!", then a TChop is a great template for owning face (though I prefer Earthshaker in these situations for mob lockdown).
However, as the sole warrior in a bad PuG/ H+H group, being able to spam "SY!" with DSlash (as well as brawling headbutt for single-target knock-lock) is, generally speaking, infinitely more valuable. Invincibility is /win.
However, as the sole warrior in a bad PuG/ H+H group, being able to spam "SY!" with DSlash (as well as brawling headbutt for single-target knock-lock) is, generally speaking, infinitely more valuable. Invincibility is /win.
Fern Burntfist
I used to wield a hammer in pve, not very long though.
Yukito Kunisaki
The super high pressure dps of a sword and the 'whoa where'd my hp suddenly go' spiking of the axe...
Two different worlds of fun. I like the axe too ^_^
Two different worlds of fun. I like the axe too ^_^
Trvth Jvstice
[skill]eviscerate[/skill] [skill]executioner's strike[/skill] ftw
Dutch Masterr
The unconditional deep wound offered from [skill]dismember[/skill] and [skill]eviscerate[/skill] makes axe my weapon of choice =D
Jetdoc
I've always been an axe warrior and have a deep affection for Deep Wound.
Coloneh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice
[skill]eviscerate[/skill] [skill]executioner's strike[/skill] ftw
bahaha
not in PvE
alex put it nicely, when you already have an imbagon triple, cyclone, whirlwind, splinter, dismember becomes rediculous
not in PvE
alex put it nicely, when you already have an imbagon triple, cyclone, whirlwind, splinter, dismember becomes rediculous
blue.rellik
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloneh
bahaha
not in PvE
alex put it nicely, when you already have an imbagon triple, cyclone, whirlwind, splinter, dismember becomes rediculous Eviscerate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TChop in the smaller areas
not in PvE
alex put it nicely, when you already have an imbagon triple, cyclone, whirlwind, splinter, dismember becomes rediculous Eviscerate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TChop in the smaller areas
Mr None
If its a PvE warrior, then the highest damage build would be
Zealous Axe +
[skill]Triple Chop[/skill][skill]Cyclone Axe[/skill][skill]Executioner's Strike[/skill][skill]Dismember[/skill]
Add an inscreased attack speed stance, agro first and redistribute the joy and happiness to mindless mobs that sorround you
Zealous Axe +
[skill]Triple Chop[/skill][skill]Cyclone Axe[/skill][skill]Executioner's Strike[/skill][skill]Dismember[/skill]
Add an inscreased attack speed stance, agro first and redistribute the joy and happiness to mindless mobs that sorround you
tipiak
Take a zealous weapon with an IAS and [skill]triple chop[/skill] + Whirlwind Attack + [skill]splinter weapon[/skill] + [skill]nightmare weapon[/skill] -> FTW
Mr None
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue.rellik
Eviscerate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TChop in the smaller areas
Eviscerate was simply the best warrior elite in game... before factions came out. Now it's only the third best warrior elite after Triple Chop and Dragon Slash
Not only Triple Chop does more damage to a single target (after Eviscerate got nerfed) it scales with more affected targets. I am not taking deep wound into concideration here since you can apply it with dismember (and we all know DW isnt technically a damage and it doesnt kill). Sometimes, when my team carries lots of conditions, i run this and have great fun with it:
[skill]Triple Chop[/skill][skill]Cyclone Axe[/skill][skill]Executioner's Strike[/skill][skill]Dismember[/skill][skill]Epidemic[/skill] + Whirlwind Attack + Drunken Master
Not only Triple Chop does more damage to a single target (after Eviscerate got nerfed) it scales with more affected targets. I am not taking deep wound into concideration here since you can apply it with dismember (and we all know DW isnt technically a damage and it doesnt kill). Sometimes, when my team carries lots of conditions, i run this and have great fun with it:
[skill]Triple Chop[/skill][skill]Cyclone Axe[/skill][skill]Executioner's Strike[/skill][skill]Dismember[/skill][skill]Epidemic[/skill] + Whirlwind Attack + Drunken Master
Grammar
The damage nerf to Eviscerate was irrelevant.
The REAL nerf to Eviscerate was the buff to Dismember (from 7A to 5A). Eviscerate became a PvP-only skill the day that happened.
As for the axe vs. swords in PvE debate, I prefer swords because of all the disgusting PvE skills that you can power with DS.
I also don't like how running an AoE axe build makes me play. It's hard to explain, but it's sort of the same thing that happened to my ranger when I used to run Barrage. The AoE mentality starts to mess around with your target selection. Instead of targeting enemies based on their importance, you start targeting enemies based on their proximity to other enemies in order to achieve the best AoE effect possible. This is especially the case when you base a build around a skill like Splinter Weapon, which not only encourages AoE targeting, it requires it.
The saving grace for axe in PvE in terms of single-target damage is Dismember, which is a really, really good skill.
I'll sometimes run a Triple Chop + Dismember build in certain areas of PvE because it's more stable than a DS build. But when I know I'll be free to do my thing without disruption, DS really can't be beat.
The REAL nerf to Eviscerate was the buff to Dismember (from 7A to 5A). Eviscerate became a PvP-only skill the day that happened.
As for the axe vs. swords in PvE debate, I prefer swords because of all the disgusting PvE skills that you can power with DS.
I also don't like how running an AoE axe build makes me play. It's hard to explain, but it's sort of the same thing that happened to my ranger when I used to run Barrage. The AoE mentality starts to mess around with your target selection. Instead of targeting enemies based on their importance, you start targeting enemies based on their proximity to other enemies in order to achieve the best AoE effect possible. This is especially the case when you base a build around a skill like Splinter Weapon, which not only encourages AoE targeting, it requires it.
The saving grace for axe in PvE in terms of single-target damage is Dismember, which is a really, really good skill.
I'll sometimes run a Triple Chop + Dismember build in certain areas of PvE because it's more stable than a DS build. But when I know I'll be free to do my thing without disruption, DS really can't be beat.
Sir Pandra Pierva
i still love the whole idea of splinter and triple chop fun
blue.rellik
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr None
Quote:
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Not only Triple Chop does more damage to a single target (after Eviscerate got nerfed) it scales with more affected targets. I am not taking deep wound into concideration here since you can apply it with dismember (and we all know DW isnt technically a damage and it doesnt kill).
3Chop is usable once every 10 seconds, flat-out. You may be lucky and get a morale boost and be able to use it again but 99% of the time, 3Chop is +34 damage every 10 seconds. Eviscerate is adrenaline based and thus can be charged much faster, a orders character charging out Dark Fury means it's charged in 4 hits or roughly every 5seconds or something. Also it's one single skill that compresses Dismember + Executioner's (with a little less damage). Quote:
like imperial sanctum? there arent very many areas with 1 foe. in areas with more than 1, triple chop wins
Quote:
Quote:
Quote: because triple chop is better? |
That and you suck at powering out SY!
Quote: Originally Posted by LockerLoad First read the forum description, then try CTRL/F "PVP" on this thread.
Finally try to refrain from obvious Red Herrings and Straw Man statements. I apologise. I was unaware that I was the only person that posts in all the PvE segments talking about any part of PvP.
Please accept the fact that you do not post here enough to know what on earth is going on.
k?
Quote:
The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position.|
Originally Posted by Mr None
Of course I meant PvE, you don't seriously think I was suggesting that build for PvP?
You obviously don't play GW enough nor post here to see the builds that some warriors run.
Quote:
That was my original post in this thread. Nothing more, nothing less. It means what it says and is true. This thread is about axes, and when you're talking about axes and you're in a area where it's very rare to be able to get enemies to stay on you especially in hard mode then 3Chop is really pointless since you are not taking advantage of it's power (ie, the AOE-ness). Thus when you're not reliably hitting more than 2 enemies at a time then the next best solution is to go to powerful single target attacks, and in that vein Eviscerate is king for axes. Yes DSlash is far better shut-down especially since it's the best warrior adrenaline engine in game and powers out constant knock-down but we are talking about axes here.
I wonder when will people read my posts properly without bringing any bias into it. Quote: Did I ever say that 3Chop is worse than Eviscerate anywhere else? Of course not, in most NM areas like Southern Shiverpeaks or the Desolation where you're fighting enemy mobs larger than 3-4 then 3Chop/Earthshaker are more or less the best elites the warrior can bring due to their aoe-ness and I would advocate them entirely. However to say that 3Chop is the best axe elite in all of PvE is just plain wrong, there are areas where it just isn't viable, places where you're fighting smaller groups of solid enemies (like Hell's Precipice or Shiro/Abaddon) then it's just plain idiocy to bring it and claim it's the best. Of course there are other options like Cleave and maybe gimmicky ones like Whirling Axe + conjure or Decapitate but honestly, Eviscerate is great because of the skill-bar compression, freeing up a slot from Dismember for something like SY or TNTF is certainly worth it.
Trvth Jvstice
blue.rellik, you're preaching to the choir bro, the Evis combo kills those SoBs very quickly. I admit a more spammable AoE skill will always be better in lower levels or areas with enemies that attack en masse, but for those areas where they are spread out, Evis combo is the absolute highest spike and dps that I know of. If this humble one is wrong, please feel free to correct me, but please refer to what I say in the context that it was used.
Grammar
Once again, the problem with Eviscerate in PvE isn't Eviscerate or Triple Chop, but rather the fact that Dismember exists, as well as the fact that compressed spikes don't matter in PvE.
Think about it..... Eviscerate costs you 3 more strikes of adrenaline than Dismember, as well as your elite slot, and all you get in return is +29 damage. Eviscerate also gives you a nice skill compression effect (it's basically 2 skills in 1) which makes it great for spikes. But that's meaningless in PvE, where DPS is all that matters. The fact of the matter is, Dismember + Executioners + [insert elite attack skill here] will give you higher DPS than Eviscerate + Executioners + [insert non-elite attack skill here]. Quite a bit higher, in fact, considering that you'll be deep wounding more foes with Dismember than you could with Eviscerate. Then you have the added AoE damage from Triple Chop on top of that. I'll even go so far as to say that Dismember out-damages Eviscerate in PvE (at least in NM). For example, if Warrior #1 Dismembers 3 foes, and Warrior #2 Eviscerates 2 foes, Warrior #1 did more damage than Warrior #2 (by roughly 40hp in this scenario). That may be an oversimplification, but you see what I'm getting at. The only reason to spend your elite slot and the extra 3 adrenaline on Eviscerate over Dismember is for the Eviscerate->Executioners spike that works so well against human players. But the higher DPS you'll get from Dismember + Triple Chop is the better way to go in PvE.
Trvth Jvstice
No, Ensign proved the Evis combo gives you the highest dps possible. The only thing axe-wise Evis isn't best at is AoE dmg.
LightningHell
I'd venture to say that would be some time ago, and Dismember got buffed as well as Eviscerate got nerfed since then.
Avarre
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr None
been reading and posting enough to attract community's attention to Sab's HA Jagged Bones build (yes it all started with my "Sab's build in Action" thread),
Oh, so you're the one who took a build that was used in HA for over a year and tacked Sab's name onto it, creating a ridiculous reference. Granted I <3 Sab, but it makes me want to bash my head every time I see 'sabway'.
Anyways I don't see why you'd use an axe elite that has a recharge when you can use one that's adrenal and thus subject to group adren buffs? Have I missed something?
Crom The Pale
They both work, really that is not in dispute.
As to which is best its impossible to state that as you can never determine how often Tripple chop will strike more than one foe. Deep wound is great when facing mobs that self heal or have some monk support but for the majority of PvE things just die so fast it hardly seams noticable. Now that we can add in PvE only skills such as "Finish Him!" dismember/evicerate seam far less effective to me. LockerLoad
Lightning, my intent is not to start a flame war. I'm merely pointing out the obvious to those who lack the ability to divine it for themselves.
Originally Posted by blue.rellik
Why do you continue to defend Rellik despite his obvious gaucherie? Is he your buddy or is that the job of an admin on this board? I don't post here very often due to the malice expressed by many of the self professed experts. But when I do my posts are relevent to the topic discussed or in response to anothers reply. Straw man: Quote: |
Red Herring:
Quote:
There, I've hilighted the fallacies for you, now on to new business
Aside from being insulting and confrontational can you guess which logical fallacies are concealed within these arguements?
Quote:
Please accept the fact that you do not post here enough to know what on earth is going on.
And no, I do not particularly like Rellik. I just happen to dislike your condescending attitude and your apparent willingness to drag the topic off its tracks, all wrapped up into a little sentence that can also be considered a flame.
I believe blue.rellik has been somewhat narrowminded during the first part of the thread, when the thread was actually on the topic, in terms of the 'blanket statement' phrase. If I were a newcomer, I would agree with your jurisdiction that talking about PvP here is not necessarily 'right', as this was created as a PvE build forum. However, since there is no place for single PvP builds (or at least until recently), The Campfire hosts discussions for all sorts of casual PvP talk - you posted in ignorance of the current state of matters in the forum. As such, the following statement by Rellik:
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue.rellik
Please accept the fact that you do not post here enough to know what on earth is going on.
Quote:
Since you're oh so very inclined to post the oh-so-called fallacies of other users, your 'buddy or abuse of moderation powers' is clearly a case of false dilemma.|
Originally Posted by blue.rellik
You obviously don't play GW enough nor post here to see the builds that some warriors run.
Thes statements aside from their lack of logic are plain insulting.
blue.rellik
Quote:
Originally Posted by LockerLoad
Why do you continue to defend Rellik despite his obvious gaucherie? Is he your buddy or is that the job of an admin on this board?
I don't post here very often due to the malice expressed by many of the self professed experts. But when I do my posts are relevent to the topic discussed or in response to anothers reply. Straw man: The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. Red Herring: A Red Herring is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue. The basic idea is to "win" an argument by leading attention away from the argument and to another topic. There, I've hilighted the fallacies for you, now on to new business Aside from being insulting and confrontational can you guess which logical fallacies are concealed within these arguements? Thes statements aside from their lack of logic are plain insulting. I've bolded the parts that are actually important for my post, why don't you actually try and refute my points?
LightningHell
Quote:
Originally Posted by LockerLoad
Why do you continue to defend Rellik despite his obvious gaucherie? Is he your buddy or is that the job of an admin on this board? |
And no, I do not particularly like Rellik. I just happen to dislike your condescending attitude and your apparent willingness to drag the topic off its tracks, all wrapped up into a little sentence that can also be considered a flame.
I believe blue.rellik has been somewhat narrowminded during the first part of the thread, when the thread was actually on the topic, in terms of the 'blanket statement' phrase. If I were a newcomer, I would agree with your jurisdiction that talking about PvP here is not necessarily 'right', as this was created as a PvE build forum. However, since there is no place for single PvP builds (or at least until recently), The Campfire hosts discussions for all sorts of casual PvP talk - you posted in ignorance of the current state of matters in the forum. As such, the following statement by Rellik:
Quote:
Now, trying to enforce forum rulings isn't a bad thing as of itself, apart from it dragging the thread off topic. However, "You fail." is hardly a good way of convey wnat you would want to say. I daresay you incited the trainwreck that followed.
I don't post here very often due to the malice expressed by many of the self professed experts. But when I do my posts are relevent to the topic discussed or in response to anothers reply.
Quote: Straw man:
Quote: Originally Posted by blue.rellik I was unaware that it was illegal to talk about PvP here The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. Pray tell me, how is he commiting a fallacy? The post he quoted was this:
Quote: Originally Posted by LockerLoad The Campfire
PvE Builds and Discussion
Share your strategies, experience and tips here for builds and groups for PvE.
You fail. Which has plenty of relevance to the previous post, and he did not distort your position, as your position is that Campfire should be for PvE, or else the above quoted post would not make sense.
Quote: Red Herring:
Quote: Originally Posted by blue.rellik I mean since it's PvE then why are we even talking about anything other than DSlash? A Red Herring is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue. The basic idea is to "win" an argument by leading attention away from the argument and to another topic. He is merely stating that if he would be talking about PvE, then he believes that Dragon Slash is the best option. This may have been an attempt to lead attention away if he already was commiting a fallacy; however, he has not, and all I see here is you trying to frame somebody for something they didn't do.
Quote: There, I've hilighted the fallacies for you, now on to new business
Aside from being insulting and confrontational can you guess which logical fallacies are concealed within these arguements?
Quote: Originally Posted by blue.rellik
Please accept the fact that you do not post here enough to know what on earth is going on.
There is an element of ad hominem here; however, his premise and purpose of the post is also perfectly clear to a reader. He should have phrased it as so to say that the Campfire is not a purely PvE forum now, instead of trying to get away with a short sentence, since he needs to point out...
Quote:
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Originally Posted by LockerLoad
the obvious to those who lack the ability to divine it for themselves
...Right? Quote:
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