Same effects should stack

I think same effects should stack (for instance, two Healing Breezes would both give their health regeneration bonus.) The following is merely a longwinded explanation of why I think this should happen, so if you agree, feel free to skip the next two paragraphs of this post. As a side note beforehand, this post can be taken as an angered rant. In actuallity it isn't, I just don't really know how to not make it sound that way...anyways.

There are two reasons I believe this: first, sensically. If two people hit someone with a sword in the same second, both of the swords count, not just one. So if two people use Mending on someone, why does it only have the effect of one? Especially since if you think about it, it'd probably be perfectly fair to have more than one Mending on someone - actually, it would not only be fair, but open up new fighting styles that could be interesting and enjoyable to play with or against. For instance, a team completely composed of monks save one warrior. All the monks put 4 Mending on the warrior, making him, for all intents and purposes, invincible. This is all fine and dandy, but the monks are (as usual) vulnerable and they have a limited amount of MP, and the warrior's defenses can be broken down if you have enough Shatter Enchantments (especially if you killed a monk or two.) And if enough of the monks get killed, the warrior can die as well.

Second, mechanically, it should work. Some skills may have to be changed (Apply Poison, for instance,) but I think for the most part, if the skill was balanced originally, it should be balanced now. For instance, Healing Breeze again. If it would be unfair for two Healing Breezes to heal HP at the same time, logically speaking it would make just as much sense for only one Heal Other to take effect at a time, one Word of Healing, Orison of Healing...etc.

I do accept that there would be some edits required. For instance, speed bonuses would probably be a percentage of the other bonus, for instance, Dodge (+33%) and Windborne Speed (+33%.) Whichever is casted second would probably add +33% to existing bonuses instead of base speed, so the second would only give 33% of 33% - roughly 11%. A similair effect would probably required on some other effects too, such as Protective Bond (I believe is what I'm thinking of) and Life Barrier.

Also, the effects monitor would have to be tweaked slightly to show the differing effects. For instance, if effected by two Poisons, it would have to show how long either lasts. Perhaps you could put x2 on the bottom-right corner of the poison effect, and if you hover over it with your mouse cursor, after the description of the effect it would have the durations of each marked? Probably with the effect's strength too, so like with two Ether Lords, it would mark how much either one was draining Energy along with how long they had left.

Any thoughts? I'm especially looking for observations on the problems this could cause. For instance, how situations like with the monks and the warrior could be exploited and break the entire idea. Also, what skills would have to be changed to accomodate this (for instance, Remove Hex might need changing to "Spell. Removes 1...4 hexes from the target." Or something similair. Also Mirror of Disenchantment, I believe it was called, removes the enchantment from all party members, it would have to be marked whether it removes all of that enchantment or just one from all party members.)

echo chain mending!
Finally, my dream come true.

This might be a sound idea for a different game, but for GW it requires too many changes and would be game breaking.

Imagine an assassin with 4x Strength of Honors and 4x Judges Insights. Then imagine he tosses a Shadowy Burden onto the target, that'd be around +44 damage from the strength of honor, much armor penetration from Judges insight, and -20 armor on the target if it has no other hexes.

Poor monks would never get a break with Daze stacking on them, and melee would have a horrible time with blind bots.

I might not have thought this through completely, I'm still half asleep. But that's my less-than-two cents.

Why? Because your reasoning is off. Those two swords are attacking with two different sets of skills, possibly two different attribute levels, damage rates, and most likely at two different times.

An enchantment is different. An enchantment has the same effect constantly. There's no logical reason for them to stack. If another healing breeze is cast on someone, it is renewed. If someone with a higher attribute casts healing breeze, it is renewed and that attribute takes over, same with lower attribute.

The system is fine. Hexes don't stack between themselves, only on each other, just as mending stacks with healing breeze or Succor. Conditions and running times should definetly not stack. Those would be far over powered, as would this new enchantment system.

This would make just about everything in the game /imbamode.

/Not Signed.

XDDD

Anyone with a basic understanding of the GW mechanics would never agree with this.

Same effects can't simply stack. That would be a bit senseless.
Even with different skills there are limit to what they can give whn used together: 25armor, 10 regen/degen, 33% speed, 33% attack, etc...

In guild wars, a character can equip only 8 skills, 8 different skills.

The current system goes towards teams that mix different builds.

Even spirits won't stack.

Just imagine this idea taking place for a second.

Imagine SoD monking... and having 4 Daze's on you. And if the effects stacked, you'd be casting spells 4 times slower.

Imagine being a Warrior and having 6 blinds on you, waiting for them to either get removed or wear off.

Basically, it doesn't make sense.

/disagree completely

this idea gets shot down about once a week i think.

you should check the plethora of other topics about this as to why its a bad idea.

...well dang. I forgot about those two because since I never found them useful. I guess if stuff stacked, that would make those somewhat powerful...of course the Judge's Insight might not be too much of a problem, since I believe it cost 15 MP a shot. Strength of Honor would be a little overpowered with this, though.
EDIT: Well, actually Strength of Honor might not be too overpowered in this. It might, it's a very real possibility, but in your example there at least...Judge's Insight doesn't last long, as I recall, and 4 Strength of Honors would mean a dedicated monk (or several monks weakened, but the amount of MP lost would be the same so you've got the equivalent of being out a monk, at least.) That would be powerful, but it might not be overpowered. At the same time, this is an example of things that might be changed a bit to go with having effects stack.

Well actually every reason in that first paragraph you list pretty much applies to enchantments, too, except time. And like I said, there's no reason they shouldn't stack. If you have two Healing Breezes, why shouldn't it heal twice as much? Both of them heal you seperately, I'd think that if you have two, they'd both heal you. Similiar to how if you have two Firestorms in the same place, both of them hurt you.

Spectral Agony seems to deny that at least as far as health loss. You may be right, I wouldn't know, since nothing stacked, any tests in what the max for each was would be purely academic as I haven't seen many healing spells worth using other than what I use, which is only Troll Ungeunt, Healing Breeze and Mending as far as health regeneration goes, and they hardly ever are active at the same time.

EDIT: I used the search button and the entire first page was full of unrelated topics, I didn't expect to find anything on the other pages. On top of this it wasn't in the Index of Ideas, so I figured there wasn't a thread for it.

EDIT: Imagine being a warrior with 1 blind on you and you've got pretty much the same thing. The effects stack, not the duration. The duration would be the same as normal. And as for Dazed, Mend Condition / Mend Ailment would follow a similair trail than Remove Hex probably would, it'd remove more conditions with ranks in Protection Prayers, so you could get rid of those 4 Dazed's almost as easily as normal. But if you have Dazed on you, personally I don't find I get many spells off anyway, since if you've been Dazed, you're being attacked, and as I recall Dazed makes you easily interupted.

Uhhh..(speachless)..i'm not even going to answer that one.

/notsigned...and never will be

Once you learn about game balance, you will understand why this is a horrible idea.

Wow, that may have been some of the worst reasoning I've ever seen in your last post Link.

I honestly don't know where to begin, I am completely speechless.

Maybe once you got your PvE-elitist head out of your ass, you'd learn about why some things are IMBA, because you obviously don't PvP if you think Strength of Honor and Judge's Insight are not really good skills.

/notsigned

I love it, but it would totally destroy the foundations of game mechanics laid down over the past few years. I'd support this for GW2, though!

Edit: Basically what this post said:

Okay, this has reached the point of talking to a brick wall. I'll go ahead and leave this forum to its insanity...

Shouting retarded ideas and having people who know something about the game tell you how it is, and then complaining?

Wow, /uninstall please

Saying different ideas and having people who might know something about the game tell me how they think it is and then responding, yes. And actually I've considered uninstalling GW a few times and did once because the people in GW regularly tick me off. People like you, actually. People that type the first thing that comes out of their heads and clicks submit post without thinking about your opinion, let alone spell checking, and never once even considering the other person's ideas any longer than it takes to make a half-baked reply. If you're going to disagree with me and comment about it, say something helpful.

Sorry but that idea would really, really mess up the game. To make it work would force a complete rebalance of skills and game types. With this, for example, Peace and Harmony would go from giving yourself +1 energy regen to giving +6 (ie capped). And the mere thought of stacking healer's boon 4 times is enough to make any offense cry.

Guild wars is basically over, all that will happen from now on is minor tweaks to the game, not a complete change of the skill system.

Hopefully permanently.

It's really a bad idea, especially with more potent skills, because everything would "explode" really fast. Take the daze example as such or buff stacking, it'd be ludicrous to see how fast things die. It'd no longer be who has more skill but who brought more fire power.

/notsigned

The reasons why this is a bad idea should really be self-evident if you think about it for a moment.

Yeah, I'm not flaming you or anything but this idea could make the most useless build into complete rape-mode. Just admit that you're wrong, we're not flaming just trying to explain why stacking enchants is a bad idea.

I concede the point of Peace and Harmony (though if you balanced it with a 10 MP cost it should be fine,) though I haven't heard of Healer's Boon. That's only two, three if Healer's Boon is counted, skills so far that don't really work, though.

Than what the heck, may I ask, is this forum for?

I fail to see why that is, enlighten me.

Than spend a couple moments and mention these "self-evident" reasons.

You don't really explain your point, so your point really has no weight. And while you may be polite (I thank you for that, by the way,) nobody else has so far that I remember.

[skill]Soldier's Fury[/skill][skill]Aggressive Refrain[/skill][skill]Frenzy[/skill][skill]"I Will Avenge You!"[/skill]
Meet my completely overpowered Paragon friend with 8 arms to throw spears at you.

edit: Might as well throw on [skill]Flail[/skill] and [skill]Rush[/skill] instead of Frenzy, since Adrenaline won't matter because I'm stacking Soldier's Fury to infinity...

Applying 2 prot spirits would reduce damage to 1%,

even 2 strenght and honor would give a ~+22 damage to any class, imagine that on a hammer war or a derv

everyone have stated that stacking would screw gameplay, 4 "Charge!"would give all the team a 100% speed boost

just don't
/notsigned

Ok, take for example the skill Order of the Vampire. With 16 blood magic, having 5 necromancers keeping this on a warrior the warrior will have 17x5 lifestealing = 85 per hit.

Order of Pain is pretty much the same except it deals 17 dmg per each enchant rather than stealing health.

Re-casting healers boon on yourself everytime it recharges would be complete hell for any damagedealer. HB in case you didn't know causes all spells to cast 50% faster and heal for 50% more. That multiplied by 5 is what you're gonna get if enchants stack.

Think of the energy regen necro skills like BiP, you could have +10 energy regen with only 2 of them up at the same time.

Think about Aura of the Lich, being on you twice, would it half your health twice but give you 4x dmg resistance? What about deathnova? I don't think ten death novas on the same person wiping half a team is "smart pvp". What about speedbuffs like stormdjinns haste? Would the buff stack making +100% faster? Armor of Earth? +120 armor ftw! What about echoing feigned neutrality? Would +7 regen and +80 armor turn into +14 regen and +160 armor?

Making them stack would turn the game upside down. Still though I'm not flaming you.

The first would be overpowered, probably, but since it's probably overpowered already, that doesn't mean much. The second costs 25 MP, that doesn't leave much leftover for the first. The third doubles the damage you take. The fourth requires a dead ally.

Sure, if you have 40 MP to throw around, that would be deadly. But since that isn't even possible with a Warrior...might be with a Paragon, I haven't used them. But even if it is, that right there would be all you're doing. 168% attack speed, yes, but overpowered? I wouldn't say so.

EDIT:
(Response to Freaky Naughty's last post)
I don't play with Necromancers. Ever, actually. I seriously don't know any of these skills...and again, thanks for the lack of flamage.
EDIT (again): By the way, the bit with Armor of Earth, Storm Djinn's Haste, etc...wouldn't that cost quite a chunk of Energy?

And to everyone's posts, practically, please keep in mind what I actually said in my original post. Two +33% speed boosts is not +66% speed, the second would be 33% of what's there. So two +33% boosts would actually be a +44% boost. Same with all other percentages (such as, probably, these protection spirits EinherjarMx speaks of.)

I'd be concerned that teams would be even more homogenous. Every group in PvE would just be 2 eles, 4-5 monks, and a warrior. In fact, they might have to do that, because fighting a horde of 5-8 mesmer monsters can be painful as it is; imagine if all of that stacked!

PvP would be affected badly too. I could compile a long list of skills that would be tremendously overpowered if it stacked, but it's a lot of work, so let's just leave it at "a lot of rebalancing would have to be done."

Now, if you're suggesting they do this for GW2, I would have 3 complaints about that:

1. As I said before, it would encourage people to have very homogenous groups.
2. Balancing such a skill set where everything can stack would be an incredible amount of work.
3. When you come upon a build that does one effect really well, you *must* have a counter to it, or you have lost. As it is now, if you don't have a counter, there are usually ways to compensate.

I don't think they'd be encouraged to be homogenous, merely enabled to do so. You might be right, I'm not sure, it just doesn't really seem like it'd be that way. It seems to me more that the current system forces people not to be homogenous because the status effects don't stack, so if you have more than one spellcaster, they better rely on non-status spells or be sure their skills don't overlap.

I don't PvP, so I wouldn't know about any of said PvP skills that would need fixing...

I'm not suggesting it for GW2, currently I'm not sure if I'm suggesting it for GW1. But I do have replies to your points:
1. Previously answered.
2. Not really, I don't think. You'd just have to balance the MP costs and recharge times based on what they do more, without counting on there only being one. Balancing would be different, but I don't think it would be more - or at least much - more difficult.
3. I don't really know why it's so much different than how things are now, honestly. Also, what if two teams meet each other that do what they do really well, do they both die? :P

Hey hey, they nerfed Mystic Regen! Now we can just cast it three times and get back to good.

...yeah, I've been playing longer than three days. >_> /notsigned.

I see serious lack of [skill]"For Great Justice!"[/skill]

Stack Healing Breeze as an example. HB is enchantment, double damage with shatter enchantments? (or whatever that skill is called)

The problem is that the OP thinks that energy costs balance skills. He's probably never heard of using a high energy weapon set. He also isn't aware of MOST skills in the game that would be totally broken while stacked.

Basically, stacking enchants would totally ruin their viability for single characters since they'd have to be nerfed into the ground. Look at early paragons.

Who cares about adrenaline. He'd be attacking like 25 times every second.

I don't see the problem with that at all.

Let's just make all weapons do like, 3-3 damage and then we can play in turbo mode!

If effects stacked, things would be too powerful, and the "balance" this game prides itself upon and builds itself around (and is what makes this game any fun) would be gone totally.

Link1228, consider this a flame if you must, but this is an observation. I don't think you know enough about the game to make this kind of proposal. As others have mentioned, there are MANY skills that this destroys. You have said you don't know certain skills, don't use certain classes, and your responses to people saying certain skills will be overpowered scares me. For instance, you were told Armor of Earth would offer a HUGE armor bonus to someone. Your response was that it would cost a lot of energy. It is only a 10 energy spell, and a Elementalist easily exceeds 80 energy for most builds.

Learn more about the game, and how it works before trying to change it.

wow...Just wow.
that quote pretty much speaks for itself.

^^^

Pretty much it.

When I read this suggestion I thought up about a dozen ways to instagib or never die. Bad idea.

A few common sense examples:

[skill]Mystic Regeneration[/skill]
Oh yah lets stack mystic regen on itself !!!
-+3 regen, 5 seconds later +12 regen. No other skill required. Retarded.

55's would essentially be unkillable.

A derv stacking RoF on itself. Fun fun.

And do you mean hexes should stack too ?

Echo Backfire = Lawl
Echo Empathy = Lawl
Echo Pretty much any counter hex = Lawl



To put it in simple terms, allowing Buffs and debuffs to stack would cause classes that rely on that type of skill to become rediculously overpowered. 8 D/Mo's could stack their bar with enchantments galor, mystic regen, reapers sweep, and blaze through halls for the very reason that any attempt to stop or counter them ( that would normally be fairly easy to do. 8 D/mo's is a stupid idea ) would be futile since they would simply stack the effectsof maintained enchantments, mystic, holy veil, ect. to have a bazillion regen, immunity to hexes/conditions, and near infinite energy from the enchants ending on them all the time.

Mesmers and necros could easily make it so no skill can be used. Thing backfire on top of backfire on top of soul leech on top of the same cover hex stacked 3 times. Their would be no counter because any attempt the monk would make to counter such a thing would result in their instadeath.

The idea would require a balance re haul so large you might as well make a different game.

This just about sums it up...

but being able to stack VwK 4,815,162,342 times wile UW farming makes me have to give it a huge

/signed!

That made me lol.

/not signed
Using double Ward of Melee 100% miss o_0, ward against ele = powerfull, ward against foes = 100% slow movement?

It just wouldn't work