Way of the Master, which weapons to master?

Shadowmere

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

The Grim Squeakers [REAP]

12 Feb 2008 at 18:26 - 1

After Picking up this neat little skill a while back I decided to see what kind of possibilities there were in sins wielding different weapons. After some preliminary research on it I've got a few options I'd like to pursue and just wanted to see what the consensus is on them.

The Bow; I've tried crit barraging, it's effective (especially if you've got a rit hitting you with splinter wep), though not as speedy as daggers. And I can see some interesting possibilities with other bow skills (disrupting accuracy comes to mind).

The Spear; Lower range than bows but with more damaging attack skills, and you get increased survivability from the shield. Seems like a good idea, though I haven't looked too much into it.

The Scythe; The highest damage weapon ingame, and the only one that has an inherent AoE property, criticals with scythes are devastating (speaking from experience on my derv).

The Hammer; With damage second only to the scythe it'd be a hard hitter, I imagine hammer criticals are pretty deadly. And since there are so many hammer knock down skills it could be an effective disruption and outright killing tool. But again i haven't researched this one a whole lot.

Just doing some brainstorming here, thanks in advance for your thoughts!

Stormlord Alex

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island

Soul of Melandru [sOm]

W/E

12 Feb 2008 at 18:33 - 2

Scythe.

No contest.

Assassin's Remedy + Wearying Strike > all

edit: for a full bar... fox's promise/wearying strike/mystic sweep/eremite's attack/assassins's remedy/resurrection signet... then... Way of the Master and some other skill.
Spam scythe attacks.
Win.

jkyarr

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2007

Earth, mostly

Hotties Of Ascolonian Rule

Mo/Me

12 Feb 2008 at 20:42 - 3

Heres the code for a build I call the "Scythe Critter" I've been using in Slavers' Exile. As long as I can control aggro, and call targets we're unstoppable. I bring both Anton and Zenmai with this build and I back it with a unique support Rt, 3 monks (one of which is me) Eve for energy and Herta for wards.

I have found the utility of this build to be its high damage output, reasonable armor and better than usual damage redux from the 75% block skill (sorry I'm at work and I don't remember the skill name).

OwpiMypMNAFntIq/w9Ng1cBdBA

a sundering scythe of enchanting is probably the most ideal. Its somewhat of a high energy build, so runes and insignias with more energy or a weapon with more energy, along with Eve on your team are recommended.

Now if I can just figure out the Forgewight! :-(

let me know what you think of that build.

Bobby2

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2007

Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards

[MaSS]

W/E

12 Feb 2008 at 21:59 - 4

PvE WotM Critter should ALWAYS include CritAgility as well.

Pyro maniac

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

12 Feb 2008 at 22:06 - 5

A/Mo with a spear.
Heal with alot of energy management ^^

Coloneh

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

D/W

12 Feb 2008 at 22:30 - 6

scythe
axe
spear

make a fun build, you wont be as effective as daggers anyways.

Bobby2

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2007

Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards

[MaSS]

W/E

12 Feb 2008 at 22:38 - 7

Spears and Bows have range. Last I checked, range = power. It's not just downsides, Coloneh.

Shadowmere

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

The Grim Squeakers [REAP]

12 Feb 2008 at 23:31 - 8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

PvE WotM Critter should ALWAYS include CritAgility as well.

Aye, in PvE that one stays firmly glued to my bar.

It looks like I should invest in a good scythe, fortunate that I just picked up a nice golden Shadow Scythe from a treasure chest today

That and the spear looks like a good one, at least just trying different things with the bow it's amazing just how much range gives survivability.

Quote: Still pretty meh.
Eremite's and Mystic are still /win for killing shit (with AoLyssa in PvE, these are lulz); the Derv also has the very sexy [skill=text]chilling victory[/skill], which makes the enemy blow up and hits a helluva lot harder than VicSweep.

Basically, Victorious Sweep's problem is that it's a 'meh' plain +dmg attack that's got some really, really sexy skills to compete with - Chilling, Wearying, Pious, Eremite's and Mystic; and the heal clause on it is lame - If you're high on health, you don't need a heal. If you need a heal, VicSweep won't heal you.

I'd look at it if it was reworked... "Desperate Sweep" 5e, 4r - You attack for +dmg, if target foe had more health than you, you gain X health. ... because then the heal would be almost useful.
Even then, I'd still rather take a better attack and ask my monks to fail less.

Winterclaw

Wark!!!

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

19 Feb 2008 at 06:03 - 26

I try to think of it like this: it reduces your need to have a heal or it can top you off if you are winning, but I get what you are saying. It isn't a great attack and it isn't a good source of healing.

Coloneh

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

D/W

19 Feb 2008 at 06:06 - 27

i would take victorious over chilling any day, it dosnt hit as hard it one swing, but you can use it twice in chilling's recharge time for the same energy and much more damage plus the heal.

Bobby2

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2007

Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards

[MaSS]

W/E

19 Feb 2008 at 06:31 - 28

Why Siphon Speed over Crippling Sweep?

Stormlord Alex

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island

Soul of Melandru [sOm]

W/E

19 Feb 2008 at 06:44 - 29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Why Siphon Speed over Crippling Sweep? For a lot of reasons, Siphon Speed is better.
For instance...
- Hexes stick around better, hex removals have much higher recharges.
- You don't have to attack the guy you've just tacked, you can SS one guy and go after another; whereas with CripSweep you're stuck on the guy you hit unless you wanna get kited bigtime.

... and some others and I might remember after a nap.

jkyarr

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2007

Earth, mostly

Hotties Of Ascolonian Rule

Mo/Me

19 Feb 2008 at 17:04 - 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkyarr

Heres the code for a build I call the "Scythe Critter" I've been using in Slavers' Exile.

OwpiMypMNAFntIq/w9Ng1cBdBA
BTW OwpiMypMNAFntIq/w9Ng1cBdBA =
[skill=text]Critical Defenses[/skill]
[skill=text]Way of the Assassin[/skill]
[skill=text]Way of the Master[/skill]
[skill=text]Critical Eye[/skill]
[skill=text]Radiant Scythe[/skill]
[skill=text]Chilling Victory[/skill]
[skill=text]Eremite's Attack[/skill]
[skill=text]Victorious Sweep[/skill]

Seems this crowd has been talking kind of around the very skills in this build. If you don't like Victorious Sweep then substitute the one you think is better. Pious has loss of enchantment if I remember correctly, and in this case that would defeat the effectiveness of the build to a degree. Chilling is already on the bar, and with only 2 enchantments (9*2=18) Mystic isn't terribly appealing. Also consider that you have a great chance of multiplying the damage listed in the skill description by the critical hit factor, which leaves VS looking a little less wimpy on the damage factor. None the less if you find skills that match your style better feel free to swap.

The general usage of this build is raw damage output dealt through frequent critical scythe hits. Critical Defenses renews undoubtedly with such a high crit hit possibility percentage, making the A/D vulnerable to only 1 in 4 attacks.

Counters include Blindess and (to a lesser degree) enchantment removal.

BlackSephir

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

A/N

19 Feb 2008 at 17:21 - 31

Way of the Assassin seems like a waste of elite for me. Put Way of the Master and you'll have free elite slot.

jkyarr

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2007

Earth, mostly

Hotties Of Ascolonian Rule

Mo/Me

19 Feb 2008 at 18:08 - 32

You bring up a point I was interested in determining. Is there a cap on how much you can increase your critical hit probability? WotA adds 37% or something close to that with 16 AP in CS, and as far as I can determine it stacks with WotM since one is a stance and the other an enchantment. If you add the bonuses from these 2 with Critical eye then you should get approximately 88% chance to critical. Is there an artificially imposed ceiling that makes that excessive? Or is there a reason you wouldn't want to crit that often?

BlackSephir

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

A/N

19 Feb 2008 at 19:02 - 33

I wouldn't use WotA because with decent critical strikes, scythe mastery and way of the master you already have nice chance to crit *and* free elite for something like Reaper's Sweap/Wounding Strike or any other elite.

jkyarr

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2007

Earth, mostly

Hotties Of Ascolonian Rule

Mo/Me

19 Feb 2008 at 19:34 - 34

I suppose I can see that perspective. Seems a little risky to me, but it just depends what side of the math you come out on.

With only 4 scythe attack skills in my build there is some slight downtime where all your attacks are recharging and you have to just use the scythe in normal weapon attacks. However during that time you've got nearly a 9 in 10 chance of your attacks being critical hits, so your damage is higher. With 5 scythe attacks as you suggest, you're effectively decreasing your odds of critting by 37% or so, to approximately 51%. If these were grades we just went from a B+ to a low F. But the other side of that coin is that the extra attack skill keeps you dealing augmented damage for at least 1 additional round. Seeing as how you've only got a 50/50 chance of that attack critting, will you come out ahead damage per energy-wise? I'm not sure where the ROI is there. Thats the only reservation I have on your suggestion. I think what it pragmatically amounts to is try it and if you like it better, use it.

BlackSephir

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

A/N

19 Feb 2008 at 20:35 - 35

I'm not saying to have 5 attack skills. I'm saying that removing WotA will give you place for better elite skill.
Also, you build lacks Critical Agility

jkyarr

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2007

Earth, mostly

Hotties Of Ascolonian Rule

Mo/Me

20 Feb 2008 at 00:06 - 36

yeah its a hero build so no sunspear title track skills are possible. I agree its very worth it for player characters.

Ju-On

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2008

House Of Zen

20 Feb 2008 at 00:36 - 37

"OwpiMypMNAFntIq/w9Ng1cBdBA"

Do I enter this template code into the wiki build guide to find out what skills are used? If so where do I enter it.

jkyarr

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2007

Earth, mostly

Hotties Of Ascolonian Rule

Mo/Me

20 Feb 2008 at 02:35 - 38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ju-On

"OwpiMypMNAFntIq/w9Ng1cBdBA"

Do I enter this template code into the wiki build guide to find out what skills are used? If so where do I enter it.

Originally Posted by jkyarr

I have found the utility of this build to be its high damage output, reasonable armor and better than usual damage redux from the 75% block skill (sorry I'm at work and I don't remember the skill name).

OwpiMypMNAFntIq/w9Ng1cBdBA

a sundering scythe of enchanting is probably the most ideal. Its somewhat of a high energy build, so runes and insignias with more energy or a weapon with more energy, along with Eve on your team are recommended.

Now if I can just figure out the Forgewight! :-(

let me know what you think of that build. I'll have to give it a go, once I get around to getting all those skills that is

Thanks again to everyone for your thoughts

Axel Zinfandel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

Northeastern Ohio

LaZy

P/W

13 Feb 2008 at 02:41 - 9

Bows with Disrupting Accuracy is deadly. I use Quick shot and spam that to pretty much shut down any caster. That and it's really annoying towards melee.

Only thing I havn't tried is Spear. Cliche as it is, scythe is the best.

fireflyry

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

New Zealand

A/D

13 Feb 2008 at 04:04 - 10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

Scythe.

No contest. QFT

12chars

Lishy

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2008

13 Feb 2008 at 13:06 - 11

It mainly depends on the situation and your mood.
Bows,Scythes, and Hammers are what I usually run.
I sometimes use axes when I am feeling quick and dirty to use aoe axe skills, but I avoid using them in higher level areas.

Onto a good explanation:

Hammers have many knockdowns and criticals are deadly.You can make a very useful KD and critical hits are strong and have a better damage range than scythes.

Scythes can make use of Aura of Holy might and Vow of Strength to strike for 100+ **AOE** damage on level 20+ enemy's with nearly every hit.

Bows have your typical barrage and interrupt.IMO, they are just okay.You can also benefit from a pet who could be a good decoy.

Don't forget:Critical eye and critical agility are your best friends.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

13 Feb 2008 at 13:34 - 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

QFT

12chars Quote For Truth For Truth!

High crit chance and in PvE, Aura of Holy Might + Crit Agility? With Wearying Strike -> Emerites? Yes please.

Adam of Tyria

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2006

13 Feb 2008 at 15:23 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

A/Mo with a spear.
Heal with alot of energy management ^^ Wait wait...Am I the only one who thinks this is bad?

DRGN

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

In Memorium [iBot]

Mo/A

13 Feb 2008 at 15:38 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam of Tyria

Wait wait...Am I the only one who thinks this is bad? You can easily maintain Mending on the entire team with the energy gained this way.

Shadowmere

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

The Grim Squeakers [REAP]

13 Feb 2008 at 15:59 - 15

Yep tried out the scythe, it = pure win. that being said I'm still fond of the bow. For kicks I took my flatbow into AB last night, was fun pegging people for upwards of 100 damage from an aggro and a half away

Adam of Tyria

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2006

13 Feb 2008 at 18:40 - 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRGN

You can easily maintain Mending on the entire team with the energy gained this way.
Dude, I never thought how leet +3 health regen on the team could be!

Sir Pandra Pierva

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Sardelec yelling at Tenshi

Angels Of Strife

13 Feb 2008 at 19:46 - 17

now i wanna make a crit bonder<_<

Crippie its Tom

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2007

Canada!

none atm

R/A

13 Feb 2008 at 22:31 - 18

Yeah, A/R with a bow pwnz with disrupting accuracy. if you bring a short bow , critical eye, and possibly favorable winds... any caster gets totally ticked with you.

I sometimes run this build in AB

A/W

Tripple chop
Dismember or Cyclone Axe
Critical Chop
Critical Defences
Critical Eye
Way of the Master
Way of Perfection (or a shadow step)
Shadow Refuge

Attribs
12 axe mastery
10+1+2/3 (or so) critical hits
rest in shadow arts

It's lotta fun in AB, tripple chop is deadly with the +34 dmg and striking all around you.Cyclone axe hits really high on the crits (most hits) plus you won't be going down a whole lot due to having 3 skills that help you live.
If you really want you can swich out way of perfection for some kind of IAS skill, which is also deadly. If you wanna try in RA take out way of perfection and add a rez signet, replace tripple chop with possibly executioner's strike, dismember for cyclone axe, and replace critical eye with way of the assasin.

Winterclaw

Wark!!!

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

18 Feb 2008 at 22:59 - 19

Bow for a poopload of interrupts.
Scythe for a poopload of damage.
Sword for a poopload of ridicule when people find out you are spamming 100 blades.

Alex, no victorious sweep?

Stormlord Alex

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island

Soul of Melandru [sOm]

W/E

18 Feb 2008 at 23:25 - 20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Alex, no victorious sweep? No, not worth it tbh.

at... what? 11+1+1 Crit, 12 Scythe and the rest (6?) in Deadly...

Fox Promise (e)
Wearying
Mystic
Eremite's
Assassin's Remedy
WotM
Siphon Speed
Res Sig

... the only skill you could ever bring yourself to drop would be one of Eremite's or Mystic, and when you're going for a kill that whole second off the activation time makes a helluva bigger difference than the unconditional +dmg of Vic Sweep. As for the actual heal on Vic... "lawl" basically. If you need the heal, chances are you won't be getting it; if you don't need the heal then it's pointless.

Fast attack > crappy heal any day

Death By Ketchup

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2007

Canada

Eternal Transcendence [DRMR]

19 Feb 2008 at 00:57 - 21

Im trying to remember what i used
I think it was something like this:
way of the master
malicous strike
crippling sweep
mystic sweep
critical defences
zealous vow(i think that was the elite i used,0eng regen and gaining 4 energy per hit)
way of perfection
featherfoot grace

I used it in ab once and it worked good. whipped it up in like 10 minutes so probably not the greated build ever but it was fun.

Winterclaw

Wark!!!

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

19 Feb 2008 at 01:22 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

No, not worth it tbh.

at... what? 11+1+1 Crit, 12 Scythe and the rest (6?) in Deadly...

Fox Promise (e)
Wearying
Mystic
Eremite's
Assassin's Remedy
WotM
Siphon Speed
Res Sig

... the only skill you could ever bring yourself to drop would be one of Eremite's or Mystic, and when you're going for a kill that whole second off the activation time makes a helluva bigger difference than the unconditional +dmg of Vic Sweep. As for the actual heal on Vic... "lawl" basically. If you need the heal, chances are you won't be getting it; if you don't need the heal then it's pointless.

Fast attack > crappy heal any day
Fair enough. But would Victorious be okay for a dervish though or is it still bad?

RavagerOfDreams

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2007

somewhere over the rainbow....

19 Feb 2008 at 01:45 - 23

+1 for scythe

Mesmer in Need

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

[ToA]

19 Feb 2008 at 02:00 - 24

I want to see a sin with a massive hammer. Earthshaker sin sounds cool, idk how useful it would be without an ias.

Stormlord Alex

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island

Soul of Melandru [sOm]

W/E

19 Feb 2008 at 05:33 - 25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Fair enough. But would Victorious be okay for a dervish though or is it still bad?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkyarr

odly

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

20 Feb 2008 at 07:47 - 39

Or just go to skills[k], select template code and paste it there. Save it there as well if you feel like it.