For awhile now, a lot of people have been saying that mesmers are underpowered in PvE, and they are correct as some of the best skills mesmers can use aren't in the mesmer line as well as if you balance them for PvE, they'd become too powerful for PvP. Mesmers are already very potent in PvP so you can't buff them. Or can you???
I think that the answer is yes and here's how. Since NF has come out and with the release of GWEN, we have had PvE only skills. So why not give the mesmers a PvE signet that makes their next few mesmer hexes AoE? That'd make them competitive in the more overpowered PvE areas in NF and GWEN and not affect the balance of them in PvP. You could make it a core skill so everyone has access to it (though I'd give it a requirement of 4 points in Fast Casting to use so only mesmers can make use of it).
One easy way to balance Mesmers (and possibly other classes) for PvE
Winterclaw
Killed u man
AoE Migraine pleash? AoE Empathy?
Naah, mesmers are fine... (Ok, they arn't fine, but they still hold on of the most overpowered (prolly THE most overpowered) skills in PvP...
DI - VER - SION
Ok, so you can't farm 24/7 on Mesmers, I think that's why Anet allowed you to make multiple characters...
Naah, mesmers are fine... (Ok, they arn't fine, but they still hold on of the most overpowered (prolly THE most overpowered) skills in PvP...
DI - VER - SION
Ok, so you can't farm 24/7 on Mesmers, I think that's why Anet allowed you to make multiple characters...
Blonde Warrior
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Originally Posted by Winterclaw
So why not give the mesmers a PvE signet that makes their next few mesmer hexes AoE?
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RavagerOfDreams
.....no....wat killed you said....
Friar Khan
@Winterclaw: I agree with you completely. It's such an obvious solution I really wonder why they didn't implement it ages ago. Both the Sunspear and the Kurzick/Luxon skills for the elementalist boost all elemental spells, why not design the SS or K/L skills for mesmer to boost mesmer debuffs?
Incidently, I posted this idea a couple months ago, though not very noticeably or eloquently
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Incidently, I posted this idea a couple months ago, though not very noticeably or eloquently
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Numa Pompilius
Personally I want less PvE-only silliness, not more.
My suggestion to make mesmers more viable would be to
a) remove the halved duration of hexes on bosses,
b) remove the halved casting time of bosses,
c) give mesmers at least one skill which causes Dazed, and
d) give mesmers at least one reasonable AoE spell, e.g. Spiteful Spirit.
@killed_u_man: regarding Diversion... Yeah, it's powerful, as it shuts down a skill for a full minute, but on the other hand it's got a _three second_ cast time, costs 10e, and all you have to do to avoid it is to not use any skills for 6 seconds. I don't see how you can consider that "THE most overpowered" skill in PvP.
My suggestion to make mesmers more viable would be to
a) remove the halved duration of hexes on bosses,
b) remove the halved casting time of bosses,
c) give mesmers at least one skill which causes Dazed, and
d) give mesmers at least one reasonable AoE spell, e.g. Spiteful Spirit.
@killed_u_man: regarding Diversion... Yeah, it's powerful, as it shuts down a skill for a full minute, but on the other hand it's got a _three second_ cast time, costs 10e, and all you have to do to avoid it is to not use any skills for 6 seconds. I don't see how you can consider that "THE most overpowered" skill in PvP.
Winterclaw
Numa, your first suggestion is only for tyria bosses. I don't think they should remove the reduced casting time for bosses, but they should lessen it.
Killed u man: if there needs to be some exceptions to the rule to keep the proposed skill balanced, I'm all for it. But some things like backfire and empathy could really be helped in PvE by making them AoE.
Killed u man: if there needs to be some exceptions to the rule to keep the proposed skill balanced, I'm all for it. But some things like backfire and empathy could really be helped in PvE by making them AoE.
Numa Pompilius
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Originally Posted by Winterclaw
Numa, your first suggestion is only for tyria bosses.
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MithranArkanere
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mirror_of_Delusions
Here you are.
I've telling this quite a lot, but I think they should and could add 10..20 unlinked PvE skills to Propechies.
Skills to add a bit of support, fill gaps and things like that, that have no variable numbers or whose variable numbers do not depend on attorbutes nor titles, but things lie number of enemies, your health, energy, allies around, etc.
Here you are.
I've telling this quite a lot, but I think they should and could add 10..20 unlinked PvE skills to Propechies.
Skills to add a bit of support, fill gaps and things like that, that have no variable numbers or whose variable numbers do not depend on attorbutes nor titles, but things lie number of enemies, your health, energy, allies around, etc.
Fangclaw
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
whose variable numbers do not depend on attorbutes nor titles, but things like number of enemies, your health, energy, allies around, etc.
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Ruricu
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
@killed_u_man: regarding Diversion... Yeah, it's powerful, as it shuts down a skill for a full minute, but on the other hand it's got a _three second_ cast time, costs 10e, and all you have to do to avoid it is to not use any skills for 6 seconds. I don't see how you can consider that "THE most overpowered" skill in PvP.
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Winterclaw
Mithran, if that skill was in the game it is unacceptable they never put it back in with the PvE skills at some point.
MithranArkanere
Oh, no, it's acceptable:
[skill]Spiteful Spirit[/skill]
[skill]Spoil Victor[/skill]
But instead of:
Mirror of Delusions:
E:15
Hex Spell. If target foe suffers from a Hex in the next 10 seconds, all nearby foes suffer from that same Hex. With Illusion Magic 4 or less, this spell has a 50% chance to fail. (Illusion magic)
It could be:
Mirror of Delusions:
E:5 C:3 R:45
PvE Hex Spell. If target foe is not a boss and suffers from a non-elite Hex in the next 10 seconds, all nearby foes suffer from that same Hex and you lose 2 Energy for each extra affected enemy. (Profession: Common. Attribute: Unlinked)
Hm... that could work
[skill]Spiteful Spirit[/skill]
[skill]Spoil Victor[/skill]
But instead of:
Mirror of Delusions:
E:15
Hex Spell. If target foe suffers from a Hex in the next 10 seconds, all nearby foes suffer from that same Hex. With Illusion Magic 4 or less, this spell has a 50% chance to fail. (Illusion magic)
It could be:
Mirror of Delusions:
E:5 C:3 R:45
PvE Hex Spell. If target foe is not a boss and suffers from a non-elite Hex in the next 10 seconds, all nearby foes suffer from that same Hex and you lose 2 Energy for each extra affected enemy. (Profession: Common. Attribute: Unlinked)
Hm... that could work
Winterclaw
I think it would work fine if you limited it to mesmer hexes only.
RiKio
Well, it is not a problem to have a Mesmer in PVE. Simply put [skill]mantra of recovery[/skill] or [skill]Assassin's Promise[/skill] and Pain Inverter on your skill bar. You will never say that Mesmers suck at PVE 
Kanyatta
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
My suggestion to make mesmers more viable would be to
a) remove the halved duration of hexes on bosses, b) remove the halved casting time of bosses, c) give mesmers at least one skill which causes Dazed, and d) give mesmers at least one reasonable AoE spell, e.g. Spiteful Spirit. |
It doesn't look like Anet is going to add any more skills, but they would be good ideas, but A and B could still happen, which, I think, would make Mesmers useful in PvE
Darkhell153
This idea would change the mesmers from incredibly underpowered to incredibly overpowered in one freakin skill!!!
Of course I completely agree with Numa (all 4 of his ideas!)
Of course I completely agree with Numa (all 4 of his ideas!)
Kanyatta
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Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
I want less PvE-only silliness, not more.
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You can't see me
Can we find a way to accomplish this without glazing over it with PvE only things, please?
the_jos
Quote:
| Diversion one monk, spike the other. That's how it's the most overpowered skill. |
Using Diversion to 'disable' a monk just to spike the other is a huge giveaway.
The true diversion in that case is not the disabling of the skill, but the monk thinking 'omg, I can't cast for 6 seconds'.
The mean use of Diversion is following the pattern used by the monks or other players and pop it on just before they cast a valuable skill.
They need to be very close to the cancel button to avoid the skill being disabled that way.
Captain Miken
Mesmers have been fixed already, see here:
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Ursan_Blessing
But in all reality, Mesmers are fine in PvE, they have their own niche, and any good team will accept one, with the exception to tank'n'spank, which is pathetically bad anyways.
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Ursan_Blessing
But in all reality, Mesmers are fine in PvE, they have their own niche, and any good team will accept one, with the exception to tank'n'spank, which is pathetically bad anyways.
Winterclaw
Urasan is not a fix for mesmers.
Zahr Dalsk
Make a duplicate skill of Spiteful Spirit but tie it to Domination and give it a new name and icon. Necromancer SS nukers will still be better, but at least Mesmers would have a chance.
Captain Miken
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Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
Make a duplicate skill of Spiteful Spirit but tie it to Domination and give it a new name and icon. Necromancer SS nukers will still be better, but at least Mesmers would have a chance.
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..
Soul Reaping? Mesmers gain 1.3~ energy per second naturally, throw in Auspicious Incantation + Chillbains or Energetic Was Lee Sa and we're laughing.
MithranArkanere
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Originally Posted by Captain Miken
Mesmers have been fixed already, see here:
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Ursan_Blessing But in all reality, Mesmers are fine in PvE, they have their own niche, and any good team will accept one, with the exception to tank'n'spank, which is pathetically bad anyways. |
We are talking about mesmers.
Sleeper Service
its something ive been thinking about as well....
So far come up with this:
Give mesmers the ability to stack hexes.
1. only affects the corresponding attribute line.
2. +1 hex at 14, +2 at 16.
this passive ability only works in PvE.
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Make Degeneration stack.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...rat ion+stack
but as you can see people are not receptive, nvm they will catch up in a year or so as per usual.
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remove the 10 pip degen cap.
Im not in favour of this but hey.
So far come up with this:
Give mesmers the ability to stack hexes.
1. only affects the corresponding attribute line.
2. +1 hex at 14, +2 at 16.
this passive ability only works in PvE.
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Make Degeneration stack.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...rat ion+stack
but as you can see people are not receptive, nvm they will catch up in a year or so as per usual.
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remove the 10 pip degen cap.
Im not in favour of this but hey.
MithranArkanere
Nah. that would be going beyond game mechanics. PvE lackings are always fixed better with PvE skills.
Limu Tolkki
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Originally Posted by Captain Miken
But in all reality, Mesmers are fine in PvE, they have their own niche, and any good team will accept one, with the exception to tank'n'spank, which is pathetically bad anyways.
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Kanyatta
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
Bad Pve Players are always fixed better with IMBA
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Your welcome
MithranArkanere
Are you serious?
So you think that's it's completely normal that monsters can have skills like Twisted Fangs and Spectral agony and we can't have ours?
Monster skills are also PvE skills.
Since it's imposible to overcome AI limitations, we need both PvE and monster skills.
So you think that's it's completely normal that monsters can have skills like Twisted Fangs and Spectral agony and we can't have ours?
Monster skills are also PvE skills.
Since it's imposible to overcome AI limitations, we need both PvE and monster skills.
Terra Xin
That's just putting a bandaid over it...
wu is me
The best way to fix mesmers in pve is to stick an uber leet monk in every single pve mob, and get rid of all the bs skills that can't be disabled/interrupted on the hardest bosses in the game, then give bosses 4Xhp, 2x skill recharge.
Thats in my opinion.
I think your suggestion makes mesmers too boring =P
Thats in my opinion.
I think your suggestion makes mesmers too boring =P
Sab
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
So you think that's it's completely normal that monsters can have skills like Twisted Fangs and Spectral agony and we can't have ours?
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[skill]The power of thought[/skill]
The AI is stupid, so the devs make them statistically stronger than humans and give them superpowered skills to make up for their stupidity. If you stoop to the intelligence of the AI and try to fight them by comparing raw numbers, then of course you're going to lose. Or you can think about how to exploit the AI and be good at PvE.
draxynnic
Quote:
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Originally Posted by wu is me
The best way to fix mesmers in pve is to stick an uber leet monk in every single pve mob,
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Quote:
| and get rid of all the bs skills that can't be disabled/interrupted on the hardest bosses in the game, then give bosses 4Xhp, 2x skill recharge. |
Possibly, though, they could have a resistance to skill disabling rather than outright immunity. Cutting the effect of Diversion down to half or even a quarter of its normal duration on a superboss monster skill will allow the party a respite from that skill without necassarily eliminating it from the entire fight.
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Originally Posted by Sab
Human players have access to the following skill, it's the second most overpowered skill in the game.
[Unknown skill: the power of thought] The AI is stupid, so the devs make them statistically stronger than humans and give them superpowered skills to make up for their stupidity. If you stoop to the intelligence of the AI and try to fight them by comparing raw numbers, then of course you're going to lose. Or you can think about how to exploit the AI and be good at PvE. |
MagmaRed
I play Mesmer in PvE. I play Ranger in PvE. I play Assassin in PvE. I play Paragon in PvE. I play Warrior in PvE. Etc., etc., etc.
Except for a few skills like Barrage, Death Blossom, etc. all those classes are single target attackers. Even Dervish is a single target attacker, but has an ability to hit multiples. The ability to hit groups is not key to doing well in PvE. Elementalist excels at group damage, and Ritualist does quite well also. If you find a need for dealing damage to large groups, either play a different class, or take another player to fill that role.
I'll say I don't like this idea, as it seems to me it would change the way a class is played. Since I enjoy the way Mesmer plays - both PvE and PvP - I'll say:
/unsigned
Except for a few skills like Barrage, Death Blossom, etc. all those classes are single target attackers. Even Dervish is a single target attacker, but has an ability to hit multiples. The ability to hit groups is not key to doing well in PvE. Elementalist excels at group damage, and Ritualist does quite well also. If you find a need for dealing damage to large groups, either play a different class, or take another player to fill that role.
I'll say I don't like this idea, as it seems to me it would change the way a class is played. Since I enjoy the way Mesmer plays - both PvE and PvP - I'll say:
/unsigned
Tyla
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Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
regarding Diversion... Yeah, it's powerful, as it shuts down a skill for a full minute, but on the other hand it's got a _three second_ cast time
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Quote:
| and all you have to do to avoid it is to not use any skills for 6 seconds. I don't see how you can consider that "THE most overpowered" skill in PvP. |
And if they're not using any skills, they're shutdown for the entire duration of 6 seconds and the rest of the backline is open to be spiked by the melee, tell me how this ISN'T overpowered.
What I think anyway. (sorry, killed u man had an answer to this myself aswell
)@The OP:
/Notsigned
I love playing my mesmer as it is, and I'm having no problems at all.
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Originally Posted by Limu Tolkki
TBH sometimes i find my sf hero better than these pathetic human mesmer trying to interrupt or hex foes. And no, im not using tank neither melee professions. Only casters.
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My Gwen hero interrupts practically everything with PD!
Also: I don't want more PvE-only skills. Kthx.
RavagerOfDreams
Arcane Echo + Echo + Pain Inverter
gg
gg
MithranArkanere
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sab
Human players have access to the following skill, it's the second most overpowered skill in the game.
[skill]The power of thought[/skill] The AI is stupid, so the devs make them statistically stronger than humans and give them superpowered skills to make up for their stupidity. If you stoop to the intelligence of the AI and try to fight them by comparing raw numbers, then of course you're going to lose. Or you can think about how to exploit the AI and be good at PvE. |
AI may be stupid, but they still have their power. You can go around that, but that's why they have that power.
Too much powr is wrong, but a little of the lost power due to skill balances encapsulated in single PvE skills harms no one, a good example is critical agility.
Assassins with that would be too much in PvP, since we cannot allow them to go like that in PvP, we remove that 'original' power from the assassin concept in PvP and gather into a skill onl usable in PvE and ding! They can be the critical hit pneumatic hammer they were 'intented to be' against monsters without harming PvP.
Numa Pompilius
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RavagerOfDreams
Arcane Echo + Echo + Pain Inverter
gg |
But actually it points to another reason primary mesmers are getting so little love: all the worthwhile mesmer skills can be equally well used by other professions. The fast casting skills are pure crap, and while the ability to cast spells faster protects against interrupts in PvP, it does absolutely nothing in PvE.
Zahr Dalsk
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Originally Posted by Captain Miken
How do you figure Necros would still be better? If we got an SS duplicate, we would have an AoE SS, a single target super SS vs Melee, and a super steroid popping SS vs Casters.
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BTW, Energetic was Lee Saa = lol, I tried that quite a lot on my ritualist and it sucks pretty hard.
Auspicious Incantation: Good skill but not nearly as good as Soul Reaping.
And while the mesmer is using Empathy/Backfire, the Necromancer will fire off Reckless Haste and perhaps Price of Failure to further improve the results of SS.