Ever changing skills...

This is not a bash at ANet, nor hopefully a thread for you to troll and flame, but I just wanted to ask who else thinks skill nerfs are actually a GOOD thing for the game?

I personally think changing things up now and then keep the game firmly planted in the skills over gear side of the fence, and that it makes the game that much more interesting to play.

Example...

You start playing, get to lvl 20 and find a build that suits what you wish to do. You continue to mainly use that build in missions and quests (or for farming if that's what you're doing with the build). You keep at it, sticking to what you know cos it works. Then BAM...something changes on your skill bar. There's a skill that has been 'nerfed' and no longer acts the way you need it to.

"Omigosh, whatever will I do?" you say.

Ah...how about changing things up a little? Thinking about the build some more. Trying something different?

"But that means I have to think about the skills and not stick to the same thing endlessly until I no longer even have to look at what I'm doing," you reply.

Why yes...that's because it's a SKILL game. We are meant to think about skills and builds, which is why you can only use 8 at a time. In a way, it should help keep the game interesting. It gives you something to think about. It gives you the opportunity to learn about different builds and how to make them. Oh boy...isn't that an intersting notion for a game about skill?


All I have to say is stop whining when skills change and use your head...yunno, to think of even better builds, rather than wasting your time wringing your hands about it and blaming ANet for spoiling your funs

The game changes a little with every sweeping skill nerf and I for one am glad about it, otherwise it'd be a pretty static game, and I know I for one would grow tired of it a lot quicker. When each skill I use gets suddenly switched on me, I rub my hands together and think "Great, now I get to do something more interesting. Now I get to be the one to come up with a great farming build, tank build, nuker build, etc."

Just play the game how it's meant to be, with skill, and not repetative button bashing with the same old builds. For a game to keep evolving and not die, skill changes must happen. End of story.

Anybody else agree, or am I in the minority?

Skill balances are essential. People complaining is just part of the process.

Skills changes keep the build moving so people do not get used to single builds.

In games where you have to re-roll it's something horrible, since you develop the character to the 'perfect build' and one day you may lose all the hard work and have to start over.

But in GW, when you just need 3 click to almost completely change the character build, it's not a problem.

Skill nerfs have never bugged me, apart from how they are AIMED at PvP and end up affecting PVE adversely. Occasional changes like that would be fine since this is a game for both sets of players, but it happens over and over and over again, because Izzy doesn't give a shit about anything but PvP.

And to all those PvP players who will inevitably respond with the usual arrogant "Sod off, this game is for PvP." I say this. 2 million + copies sold, less than 100 000 hardcore PvP players. Get over yourselves, you're a very small percentage of the overall population, though amongst the most "active" players.

ive gotta say them changing the necro sacrifice skills eg. BIP to 1 energy was a master stroke on Anets part ,, although what they did to LoD was a bit sucky .. i suppose it stops players overusing a single build for a specific place/scenario. i for one think its better than nerfing all the enemies skills etc.. as for pvp i can see how its annoying but all good pvp'ers adapt + remember its the same for everyone

Personally, I've seen some good things come of the "nerfing". Ppl freak out, QQ, /ragequit....then some think of new builds to farm/run/kill that boss.

Innovation at work. Sad we players need our asses kicked to get it going but hey....survival of the fittest

Respect your pov and wish more people shared it tbh.

There will always be some that like the 'balances' as they mix things up and refresh the game for a bit, some that just want to play in their own shell without any outside interference so the changes upset them whenever if affects their builds or playstyle - these are the really casual, young, or emotional (read: something's wrong with them upstairs) players and many do actually quit the game over major nerfs. And then there are others who don't give a damn either way and will adapt whenever necessary until the game gets stale or something better comes along.

Yeah, I guess some people just don't like change.

But change keeps things fresh, and moving. It's not hard to change your builds, attribute points and way of going about things, but I suppose for some people it's just too much to do

/agree
I'm ok with skill changes because ive never had one happen to the skills im using but yes thank you for opening this thread so all the people that like complaining on websites about what happen so they might just stop.

PvE can be beaten with a variety of builds.

\

It isn't that I don't like change, I just don't like the fact that every month or so 10 more skills are thrown into the "useless" pile.

These nerfs do not change the game up. They narrow the game down to fewer and fewer skills that are worth a damn, which then causes more and more people to use the same worthless wiki builds. That in turn, causes more skills to be nerfed, so on and so forth.

Also, don't even give me that "changing it up" bullshit. Touch rangers are by far the oldest, stalest, and most worn out of all the builds out there and they gave the damn thing a buff. As if a team of touch rangers wasn't bad enough before, it's basically nothing but R/N's running around in every PvP town now.


Go in game and press "k". Look down that list at the gold skills and tell me how many of them are worth a shit. 75% of the elites out there don't even deserve their elite status anymore. Why? Because THEY ALL GOT NERFED! But it's ok, the shit that should be nerfed never will be, that has become blatantly obvious at this point. It's become increasingly apparent that Izzy is biased towards what professions and attributes that he nerfs.

I dont agree to most of the nerfs but whaw can you do?

was the nerf really for the balancing or just to stop farming.

- It kind of irritates me that ANET and this community sees skill balance as merely buffing and nerfing things. Reason why only around 30% of profession's skills ever see play regardless of game mode is because ANET doesn't understand this fact. I've tried countless times to advocate creating standard with which to balance skills but to no avail. I guess Izzy just doesn't care. His attitude towards his job is immature and that reflects the company as a whole.

- Uh huh? See what you're saying here: ANET has to turn the big wheel to change the whole game, in order to have us thinking of alternatives? And here "alternative" is swapping the nerfed-to-hell-LoD to buffed-to-heaven-WoH. Isn't this... ridiculous? If skills were actually balanced, if we wouldn't be forced to run the same blockweb and ele/rit/monk runner with few essential skills, who knows how interesting the game would be. If Rangers would actually have other usable preparations besides Apply Poison, if smiting was a viable choice.

I know just about nobody will agree with me on this, but I wish they would actually change more skills in each update.

I tend to try to avoid "The Build", the one that everybody's using, so nerfs tend to effect me less. I really enjoy trying new builds when I get tired of the one I'm using, and skill updates usually make me think "That might be an interesting skill to use".

So, my only gripe about skill balances is that there aren't enough of them.

Balances keep the metagame in PvP from getting to stagnant/boring and also to stop overpowered builds. Without them PvP would be more shit than it currently is. How balances affect PvE seems to be nothing but an afterthought.

But the game isn't only about PvP for a start. And also...the skills you say are not worth shit is just a matter of opinion. Just because you haven't seen them in a wiki build doesn't mean they're not usable if you try new things

Touch rangers can be stopped easily, but again...it just takes a little thinking about. It means YOU have to think about your build rather than Anet handing one to you on a plate

Those 'useless' skills are not useless at all, but for the build you WERE running maybe they don't fit anymore, but here's the thing...it's designed to make people change up their builds once in a while

Hmm, if you think the only useful prep for a Ranger is Apply then that says it all

Try something new

Skill nerfs and poor handling don't irritate me until you hit the point where a profession is no longer accepted into high-end missions. Sadly, I think that point has been hit and hammered long ago.

Poor mesmers.

/signed

dynamic system (slight skill changes every day/week) >>> static system (slowly converging to balanced)

The problem is that they don't have a clue about what's balanced and what isn't and they have selective hearing when it comes to listening to the community.

For example, Savage Shot and Distracting Shot are overpowered and, although many will disupute this because they live by these skills, they'll never be changed simply because Rangers won't see play otherwise. That isn't a good reason to leave imbalances. They have tried to bring damage in to rangers by the means of buffing Penetrating/Sundering Attack but that doesn't suffice - not even close.

Consider mesmer interrupts like Power Leak, Power Spike, Power Lock, Power Drain etc. One has to think carefully about using these skills because they have balanced recharges. Missing an interrupt is wasteful and can be a real inconvenience. A ranger misses an interrupt and there's still damage and still the effects of the preparation.

It's irritating for them to then change Storm and Flame Djinn's Haste out of the blue when there's more work to be done elsewhere. I'm predominantly a PvE player and I don't care if they nerf my farming skills and builds because it doesn't matter. When I do PvP it's all depressingly stale with the same nonsense like the above interrupt spams (as well as Magebane Shot), Ancestor's Rage (lolwut? 100+dmg from a 5 energy 1/4cast skill) and Rodgort's Invocation with Mind Blast for no-brainer energy management.

It's difficult to understand why the dev team has a dedicated skill balance employee but skills are only balanced once in a blue moon and are generally lackluster attempts to discourage current trends or 'metas'.

Be vigorous with the future patches and don't be afraid of complaints from the community. Evidently, from the last patch, people are going to whine about the smallest changes anyway. Put some back in to it next time and it will reinvigorate so many aspects of the game and not just GvG.

I don't mind skill balances in general. Sure some are more... annoying than others, but for much I simply get over them, adapt, and move on.

They don't listen to the community when it comes to skill balance, they only listen to a 1/10 of a procent of the player base as far as skill balance/nerf is concerned.

It's getting to the point of being a lottery every time you log on.
Can I play my charr or do I have to spend hours tweaking the skill bar.

I don't really care what happens, as long as a class isn't demolished in the process.

Change is necessary for a static game like Guild Wars. Playing the same old build gets boring after a couple years, unless it's incredibly enjoyable to play.

The only gripe about skill changes that I have, is that everything is balanced around GvG and HA. IIRC, more people play PvE than GvG and HA, so why are they catering to less than half the GW population?

They just should go ahead and remove PvP, focus on the PvE part of the game and would have less to worry about skill balancings. Then may they could care of their bad pve skill concepts, like the norn forms.

I tired of the constant skill changes and nerfs. I'd far prefer a bit better testing and balancing prior to release, as well as the focus of attention for skill changes more on the less-used skills than the most popular, to try to bring more skills into the mix as opposed to knocking the common ones out.

Some change here and there is good, as well as balancing post-release due to issues that couldnt reasonably be foreseen, but there are some 60%+ skills that see use maybe once in a blue moon. I think there is at least some potential for a more dynamic game in bringing more skills into the fold instead of continually tweaking the top 10% of skills used in FotM, as tends to be Anet policy.

As others have said, some change is necessary during static periods (in between chapters and new skill releases etc), so I am not knocking that altogether. I just wish the focus would be a bit more balanced. I suppose I criticize balancing efforts most of all, but alas, at least Anet tries.

The entire game is based around acting on player feedback imho.

Point it Ai is stupid 90% of the time whereas people are sneaky and very quick to exploit strengths and weaknesses in the game.

That's why nearly all the skill changes made since day 1 have come from pvp a combination gets exploited and the skills change.

Same with farming people exploit a game weakness and it gets nerfed and on the whole this is good and necessary.

I don't mind skill balancing/nerfing so long (as posted above) it doesn't hinder a profession weaker than others.

Adapt or die. Try new strategies/builds or become stunted and reliant on wiki :P

Yes, but concidering how big the player base is, the players they listen to don't reflect the majority of players.

- Which of these do you consider worth bringing?

Read The Wind has +10 damage per shot. That equals 1.25 seconds of poison...
For damage, Glass Arrows is best and when you go damage you don't take any other preparation like RtW, Expert Focus or Rapid Fire. Barbed Arrows would be nice with Poison Arrow for some degen fun if those parameters weren't so messed up... like the only preparation with easily interruptible condition? Expert's Dexterity, Marksman's Wager, Trapper's Focus, Scavenger's Focus I wouldn't bring even if they weren't elites. Choking Gas works with Practiced Stance I guess, which is better than Incendiary Arrows. Go figure.

Which is generally good, as the majority of players will be PvE scrubs with no clue on balancing. They'd suggest that Shadow Form lasts 5minutes to make it easier on their farming.

Was that really called for? Oh,Sorry should have read your name before.

i wouldnt play a game that couldnt adapt to US

Skill balance=shooting yourself in the foot,

Not trying to flame or rant, just a simple observation.

It seems for what ever reason Anet figured that skill balance which is really only meant to keep the Meta game in check for PvP only, but has aversly harmed the PvE community, thus Anet realizeing their mistake added PvE only skills which are supposed to be overpowered to keep the PvE player base happy, until the roll out of GW2.

They don't want to lose either PvE or PvP players, so sales of the new game are good, at the same time still want to tweak skills were needed.

Those tweeks are more or less for balance in the relic run map of Halls, and VOD with GvG.

So you're telling me the majority of players in GW know what buffs/nerfs will be good for the game? Join a PUG, then go figure.

It's always funny when people think i'm a noob for putting it in my name 2 years ago.

EDIT: Here is an example of skill change suggestions found in a PvE section. Hmm..

This topic is very very old.

Yes skill changes are needed for balance.
Yes skill changes will upset people in PvE and PvP who feel thier old build is ruined.
Yes people will learn to adapt to the changes untill the next set of changes comes along.
Yes people will blame PvP for everything and PvP people will call PvE players noobs.
Yes farming builds will cause skill nerfs that affect PvP players.

Yes I will get flamed for this post, NO I won't care

Well, the small part that is being consulted is not doing to good either are they?
Change skill, revert change, tweak revert etc, etc LOL

And all because Joe-Blow selfproclaimed "Pro" got pawned in PvP,
GW's PvE has grown to such proportions that it should be the main concern for the Dev's if they want to keep the player base until GW2 goes live.
Best would be to totally separate PvP from the rest of the game.

Maybe if Izzy implemented all the suggestions made by people such as Ensign or Holymasamune, PvP would be fine. If you took note, most of these reverted changes are because of PvE'ers crying that their farming builds are ruined.

..

I don't quite understand what you're trying to say here, but im guessing it's "PvE gets the worst end of the stick come balances, and all because Joe-Blow selfproclaimed "Pro" got pawned in PvP".. ?

This was designed to be a PvP game.


But Anet will never do that.

1.Do a bit of reserch and you will find that that argument has been denid by the founders of A-Net along time ago, it was the designed to be both.

2. what balance? just look at the lasted one.
decreased movment speed increase? well tought throug.

So what's your problem here then? The people who know what they're talking about will tell you this was a good change.

It's also, "thought through" btw.

Why change it in the first place if your going to revert it again?

seams like the are shooting blind folded lately.

And who are "The people who know what they're talking about "?