Originally Posted by ZigathonV
Off-Hand:
Grim Cesta (Blue)
Energy +8 (6 Soul Reaping requirement)
Energy +15
Energy Regen -1
Health +30
Net result: 515 Health and 57 Energy (+3 Regen).
Replace this with a shield. Seriously. You don't really need the extra energy the offhand will give you, because you have Soul Reaping, which is a source of infinite energy as long as you are killing things (and in PvE, if you aren't killing things, you are most surely doing it wrong). The shield (when properly modded) will give you a base +8AL, or +16AL if you manage to meet the requirement (for this route, get a Tactics shield, obviously), +30HP, and +10AL vs. the element of your choice; multiple shields, of course, means multiple elements that you can choose to have extra defense against, so buy/craft/find as many as you can.
You can also carry around a +12e HCT/HSR +30HP offhand if you wish, but I wouldn't recommend it over a good set of shields.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZigathonV
Skills:
Vampiric Gaze
Dark Pact
Touch of Agony
Pure Strike
Jaizhenju Strike
Final Thrust
Vampiric Touch
Well of Blood
Try this instead:
Vampiric Touch
Vampiric Bite
Auspicious Parry {E}
Sever Artery
Gash
Frenzy/Flurry/Flail/whatever IAS you want, because a "Warrior" without an IAS is bad.
Touch of Agony
Resurrection Signet
Touch and Bite are basically the same skill, and are easily spammable (loltouchrangers), so they sort of make sense for a melee blood user. Auspicious Parry is just there to help keep you alive, because again, you are playing melee with somebody who shouldn't be in melee range to begin with. If you can find an elite that works better, by all means use it (Well of Power is okay, but Life Transfer is just terrible; by the time LT has actually done enough to a target to be worthwhile, that target should have already been dead ages ago). The famous Sever/Gash combo is to provide the ever necessary Deep Wound (if you buy Nightfall, you can replace Sever with Crippling Slash, for a much more desirable effect; throwing Cripple into the mix is hot shit), which helps you kill things faster. The IAS will help you to... kill things faster. Touch of Agony is just quick damage, and Resurrection Signet is of course great to have if somebody happens to die in your party, other than you.
Meleemancers are bad, and unless Izzy does something really weird to some skills, they will always be bad. But, I suppose, if your goal is just to have fun with the game, and not to win in the most efficient way possible (which, to many players, such as myself, is the goal of the game  ), you're off to an okay start. Just do whatever you feel like doing, and be prepared to take some kidney punches from people who think you are terrible because of the way you choose to play.
25 Feb 2008 at 20:45 - 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faer
Meleemancers are trash. That being said, here are some constructive comments.You're better off with 14 Blood Magic, 12 Swordsmanship, and whatever else is left in Soul Reaping. Do your Attribute Quests, then...
Get max armor, drop the Superior Blood rune for a Minor, replace the Minor Vigor with a Superior Vigor when you get the money to do it, drop both Attunements for Vitaes. You are trying to play melee with low armor and low health, which is a bad idea. If you are going to get up close and personal with armor that is not suited for such interactions, you need to get more health on your bar to serve as a reasonable buffer.
Replace this with a max damage sword, you can replace the Furious mod with a Zealous (it works out to be much more beneficial to you in the end, but it doesn't matter really - you're playing a meleemancer, psh  ). Get a perfect (10%) HSR inscription, and replace the Swordsmanship pommel with a max Fortitude one (+30HP).
Replace this with a shield. Seriously. You don't really need the extra energy the offhand will give you, because you have Soul Reaping, which is a source of infinite energy as long as you are killing things (and in PvE, if you aren't killing things, you are most surely doing it wrong). The shield (when properly modded) will give you a base +8AL, or +16AL if you manage to meet the requirement (for this route, get a Tactics shield, obviously), +30HP, and +10AL vs. the element of your choice; multiple shields, of course, means multiple elements that you can choose to have extra defense against, so buy/craft/find as many as you can.
You can also carry around a +12e HCT/HSR +30HP offhand if you wish, but I wouldn't recommend it over a good set of shields.
Try this instead:
Vampiric Touch
Vampiric Bite
Auspicious Parry {E}
Sever Artery
Gash
Frenzy/Flurry/Flail/whatever IAS you want, because a "Warrior" without an IAS is bad.
Touch of Agony
Resurrection Signet
Touch and Bite are basically the same skill, and are easily spammable (loltouchrangers), so they sort of make sense for a melee blood user. Auspicious Parry is just there to help keep you alive, because again, you are playing melee with somebody who shouldn't be in melee range to begin with. If you can find an elite that works better, by all means use it (Well of Power is okay, but Life Transfer is just terrible; by the time LT has actually done enough to a target to be worthwhile, that target should have already been dead ages ago). The famous Sever/Gash combo is to provide the ever necessary Deep Wound (if you buy Nightfall, you can replace Sever with Crippling Slash, for a much more desirable effect; throwing Cripple into the mix is hot shit), which helps you kill things faster. The IAS will help you to... kill things faster. Touch of Agony is just quick damage, and Resurrection Signet is of course great to have if somebody happens to die in your party, other than you.
Meleemancers are bad, and unless Izzy does something really weird to some skills, they will always be bad. But, I suppose, if your goal is just to have fun with the game, and not to win in the most efficient way possible (which, to many players, such as myself, is the goal of the game ), you're off to an okay start. Just do whatever you feel like doing, and be prepared to take some kidney punches from people who think you are terrible because of the way you choose to play.
Spot on, Although wouldnt Sunspear Rebirth be better than Rez Signet (If the OP gets NF). Talking of which.. If the OP gets EOTN... Drunken Master could possibly replace the IAS, I find it fun to run.. tipsy while killing shizzle is... well... funny ;p, even when I'm not using a sword.
Btw.. that build is... half decent.. for a meleemancer mind. I might go round in AB playing it lol ;p just to tick people off =).
25 Feb 2008 at 22:33 - 9
Thanks for the advice. I like the idea of having two of the Vampiric touch skills, however, it does justify my use of the Grim Cesta.
My skills are now:
Vampiric Gaze
Touch of Agony
Vampiric Touch
Vampiric Bite
Jaizhenju Strike
Pure Strike
Quivering Blade [E] (I just captured that a few minutes ago).
Well of Blood
I may switch to a +2 Blood rune for the added health, as well.
25 Feb 2008 at 22:38 - 10
Are you serious ..
If you're not, you're a caster: stay in caster range. Blood magic is bad as well
25 Feb 2008 at 23:17 - 11
First, please take the shield advice. Seriously.
Second, max armor.
Third, lose Quivering Blade unless you put Plague Touch on your bar. You DON'T want to be Dazed.
As some thoughts, focus on Adrenaline based attack skills if you feel you don't have enough energy with a shield in your offhand. Consider Auspicious Parry as it is great defense for you. Grenth's Balance might be a fun elite for you too in a meleemancer position.
Enjoy your game.
GL and HF.
25 Feb 2008 at 23:18 - 12
Yeah, I'm serious, lol. I've made it quite far into the game using this build. As a matter of fact, its the only character I have at level 20. With the equipment I have, its not very hard to take out mobs at all.
Vampiric Gaze - This skill stops runners. By the time they start running, this is usually enough to finish them off. I should also mention that this pulls... but that should be obvious.
Quivering Blade - Small Adrenaline cost +30 damage. The drawback hurts a bit, but it doesn't happen enough to be of much concern.
Touch of Agony - Really cheap damage, usually a finisher.
Pure Strike - Basic Sword attack.
Jaizhenju Strike - Second basic Sword attack. I usually have one of these ready for use at all times.
Vampiric Bite - Self-heal, big attack.
Vampiric Touch - Self heal, big attack X2. Again, one is always ready for use. Actually, due to the 2 second charge times, both are usually ready.
Well of Blood - Great for when the party is suffering from widespread Health Degen. Also, saves a bit of the Healer's energy for emergency heals.
I'm currently debating switching out something (unsure what) for "Watch Yourself!" I can free up some Attribute points to at least get 9 or 10 Armor out of it.
I'd consider using a shield if there was one that gave me at least +10 energy as well as any Armor bonuses. Of course, I'm probably just grasping at straws there.
As far as Max Armor goes, I don't have much gold right now, and 51 AL on most of it isn't a very big difference to me at this time.
EDIT: Well, I juggled some numbers around and they now sit at Blood: 14; Soul Reaping: 7; Swordsmanship: 10; Tactics: 5. This has allowed me to remove Touch of Agony for "Watch Yourself!" giving me and those in earshot +12 Armor.
My reasoning being that with my low armor and health, using a skill that sacrifices health probably isn't a smart idea when on the front lines in the late stages of the game.
26 Feb 2008 at 00:44 - 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZigathonV
Yeah, I'm serious, lol. I've made it quite far into the game using this build. As a matter of fact, its the only character I have at level 20. With the equipment I have, its not very hard to take out mobs at all.
I have one acronym to say:PvE.
26 Feb 2008 at 01:11 - 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZigathonV
Vampiric Bite - Self-heal, big attack.
Vampiric Touch - Self heal, big attack X2. Again, one is always ready for use. Actually, due to the 2 second charge times, both are usually ready.
7 in Soul Reaping and no e-management skills does not make you a touch ranger. That's a constructive criticism.
Oh, and why do posts keep disappearing here?
26 Feb 2008 at 01:30 - 15
After playing with my necro for a while, I think my favorite elites atm are Spiteful Spirit and Spoil Victor. Since you like the blood aspect of a necro, I would recommend Spoil Victor. Although, Life Transfer should be a perfetct elite until you get farther into the game.
26 Feb 2008 at 03:11 - 16
Pure and Jaihjenzu Strike are poor sword attacks. Go with Sever Artery + Gash for a Deep Wound combo, with maybe Final Thrust or Sun and Moon slash.
Now, in an effort to be kind of creative and keeping with your meleemancer theme, I came up with:
Swordsmanship: 12
Death Magic: 11+1+1
Blood Magic: Leftovers?
Soul Reaping: 6+1
[skill]Dragon Slash[/skill][skill]"For Great Justice!"[/skill][skill]Dark Bond[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Minions[/skill][skill]Withering Aura[/skill]
I thought of the best self defense a Necromancer could get, and I thought of Dark Bond. And you could play some cheesy necromancer fighting alongside his minions! You could throw in some other attack skills([skill]Sun and Moon Slash[/skill][skill]Sever Artery[/skill][skill]Gash[/skill]), an Increase Attack Speed ([skill]Flurry[/skill] or Drunken Master), some other necromancer skills like [skill]Animate Vampiric Horror[/skill] or [skill]Taste of Death[/skill]. I'm not exactly sure how Dragon Slash works at 12 Swordsmanship, but you should be spam it pretty well with For Great Justice up. Maybe you could even run Save Yourselves! lawlll
26 Feb 2008 at 03:34 - 17
I would suggest you just capture some more skills and try out a more commonly used build. If you do that compare the dmg output of the builds. Also it might be fun for you to do something else with your necro. Necro's offer a wide variety of different skills.
I wouldn't get stuck on that build idea too much, because it will simply fail in all matters against other builds.
I bet once you open yourself up to a greater GW understanding you will enjoy the game more anyways.
femaro
26 Feb 2008 at 13:43 - 18
Actually running SY! on a N is perfectly feasible.
26 Feb 2008 at 16:57 - 19
So far things have been working out pretty well with a skill bar consisting of:
Vampiric Gaze
Vampiric Touch
Pure Strike
Vampiric Bite
Jaizhenju Strike
Galrath Slash
"Watch Yourself!"
Well of Power
Not exactly the most diverse of bars, but it works.
I also dropped the Swordsmanship mod from my sword in favor of a Fortitude mod giving me +25 Health. 540 HP and 57 Energy is a comfortable zone to be in, for me anyway.
26 Feb 2008 at 20:25 - 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faer
Replace this with a max damage sword, you can replace the Furious mod with a Zealous (it works out to be much more beneficial to you in the end, but it doesn't matter really - you're playing a meleemancer, psh ). Get a perfect (10%) HSR inscription, and replace the Swordsmanship pommel with a max Fortitude one (+30HP).
Zealous is bad since he's going to spend half his time using his spells and not actually attacking. Zealous only gives you an advantage if you land a hit every 3 seconds, otherwise it's taking away energy. It's kinda like when Chiizu almost vamped out 1v1ing me because I had SoD/Aegis :S
27 Feb 2008 at 08:55 - 21
I think you're lucky to be surviving even midgame. Assassins are criticized as paper warriors, but you're a paper warrior without damage mitigation.
I like the auspicious parry idea.
Consider stances - e.g. bonnetti's stance would both help in mitigating damage, and relieve the need for that much energy.
Consider "watch yourself".
Every 40 points of armor halves the damage you take. At 60 armor, you're taking double that of any warrior (phys). I urge you to reconsider a shield. 16 armor is roughly 30% less damage.
I like cheng's idea
dark bond + minions will reduce damage you take quite nicely - even armor ignoring damage is reduced, potentially making you even more sturdy than a warrior - albeit fearing enchantment removal.
Mark of fury - for extra adrenaline. cheap, moderate recast - let you use the elite quivering twice as often.
Barbs/mark of pain - add damage to foe/foes around your target.
enfeebling blood - weakness to all you're in meele with.
Shadow of fear - half the attack speed of meele and range attackers.
Well of darkness - enemies miss half time
aura of the lich + liph siphon - regen is doubly effective when enchanted with lich.
I'm grasping here for combinations but there's little synergy in what you're using now.
REMEMBER it's not just about doing damage directly, but mitigating it, and enhancing your own skills along the way.
Right now you're using 2 5energy sword attacks, when you can use 2 5 energy spells that do not miss the target, do equal or more damage without being in meele range. However, if you were using some form of damage mitigation to save yourself in meele, you can use say, barbs of mark of pain and rack up a lot with some attack speed, or multi hit skills (say, flurry, sun and moon). Make more use of adrenaline attacks with mark of fury.
While vampiric touch skills look nice, their damage is moderate at best, and over time efficiency pales in comparison to what else you can do. that 65 hp you gained on touching may work now, but isn't going to cut it later - not when you can be away from that enemy, or mitigate that damage.
27 Feb 2008 at 14:45 - 22
Flesh Golem +Dark Bond + Infuse Condition
Pretty much makes you near damn invincible while they're all up.
27 Feb 2008 at 17:31 - 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by holymasamune
he's going to spend half his time using his spells and not actually attacking
That's no fault of mine, now is it, Divine?
[email protected]
29 Feb 2008 at 17:14 - 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZigathonV
All in all, I think its a very simple "Vampire with a Sword" hybrid character.
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It's a nice sounding idea, and will suck to play it.
Quote:
I can go toe to toe with many strong foes and usually survive. I've single handedly taken out some bosses. Of course, without some Monk back-up, I'm still a squishy target at times.
You're "backline". stay there, with your wand.
29 Feb 2008 at 17:31 - 25
There were meleemancers in the Early GW era, and they failed. So, don´t try to play as a meleemancer. You are a backline character. If you want to be a Vampiric Melee Char, be a R/N ( please don´t blame me for this idea...)
01 Mar 2008 at 16:52 - 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiKio
There were meleemancers in the Early GW era, and they failed. So, don´t try to play as a meleemancer. You are a backline character. If you want to be a Vampiric Melee Char, be a R/N ( please don´t blame me for this idea...)
R/N is touching, not melee. W/N have some decent builds.. Plague Touch can be helpful on a war at times.
06 Mar 2008 at 05:19 - 27
I was never interested in using my Necro for melee. My Warrior, Assassin, and Dervish scratched that itch. My Necro ran a Minion Master build until I got a Necro Hero as MM, and after that it was usually either an SS or Icy Veins build. Efficient, effective, normal.
Then I took a number of my character to Eye of the North, and each obtained the Norn Ursan Blessing skill. I initially stuck it on my Necro's build to cope with a few situations where key foes had either Vow of Silence or Spell Breaker. The Bear skills were pretty effective, but the zero-axe-mastery Totem Axe was not. What was simply amazing, though, was that Soul Reaping allowed her to maintain the skill for a much longer time than any of my other, melee-oriented, characters. Not only was a zealous weapon not needed to generate energy in battle, but dying minions from her ever-present Hero MM (who never casts [wiki]Blood of the Master[/wiki] when running) generated a continuous energy flow as the party ran from one fight to the next. Forget about 'efficient', 'effective', & 'normal'!! I wanted my Necro Chick to "Be The Bear", running about in the snow in her elegant Vanguard Evening Dress, swinging an axe, and GROWLING at enemy mobs! Failing to find an N/any build based on Ursan Blessing, I took on the challenge of creating one.
WARNING: THIS BUILD MAKES A MOCKERY OF THE TRADITIONAL USE OF THE NECROMANCER PROFESSION. IT REQUIRES THE USE OF EDGED WEAPONS! IT REQUIRES MELEE COMBAT... WITH TISSUE PAPER ARMOR... UP FRONT WITH THE WARRIORS! IT FORSAKES THE SACRED NECRO ELITE SKILLS BELOVED BY ALL! IT IS USELESS FOR PVP! IT IS USELESS ON HEROS! HENCHIE NECROS WILL REFUSE TO JOIN YOUR PARTY! DANGER WILL ROBINSON!!
----------------------------------------------
Character stats that matter:
My Necro is Level 20.
Armor: Standard Level 60 NecroSquishy. Each piece with Brawler's Insignia (A+10 while attacking). Minor Runes for the four Necro attributes, plus a major (+41) health.
Eye of the North Ranks: Norn 7, Vanguard 5. Low rank in either lowers effectiveness, but will give you a taste for how the builds work. You can then decide whether its worth your time to farm Norn/Vanguard points.
Typical Party:
Livia N/Mo MM
Koss W/P sword
Morgahn P/W motivation
Herta E
Mhenlo Mo
Devona W
Aidan R
(Admit it, you expected to see FIVE monks & TWO Song Of Restoration Paragons!)
-----------------------------------------------
N/W PvE Ursan Blessing Axe
Blood Magic 0 +1
Death Magic 2 +1
Soul Reaping 9 +2
Curses 10 +1
Tactics 4
Axe Mastery 11
Weapon:
Vampiric Axe of Shelter
6-28 req 11
A+7 (physical damage)
13^50, customized
Vampiric is more for damage than health. Handle 'O Shelter is HIGHLY recommended.
Offhand:
Crimson Carapace Shield
A+6 req 4 Tactics
A+5 while attacking
A-5 while casting
GREAT shield for this build! Get it from Guardsman Noell, Prophecies Eastern Frontier, just outside Frontier Gate. Costs 3 Ornate Grawl Necklaces. I started with a E+12/Rcvd Dmg -5(20%) Bone idol, then looked at the A+14/req 7 Tactics shields in Blacktide Den. Hated to throw away attribute points just to enable the shield. This is a nice compromise.
Skills...
[wiki]Enfeebling Blood[/wiki]
[wiki]Ebon Battle Standard of Honor[/wiki]
[wiki]Feel No Pain[/wiki]
[wiki]Mark of Pain[/wiki]
[wiki]Cyclone Axe[/wiki]
[wiki]Swift Chop[/wiki]
[wiki]Signet of Lost Souls[/wiki]
[wiki]Ursan Blessing[/wiki]
[N/W PvE Ursan Blessing Axe;OAFUYyjK3KR2B5i4kWCKFVFVVGlA]
-----------------------------------------------
N/D PvE Ursan Blessing Scythe
Blood Magic 0 +1
Death Magic 0 +1
Soul Reaping 10 +2
Curses 10 +1
Scythe Mastery 11
Weapons:
Cruel Suntouched Scythe of Warding
Slashing: 9-41, req 9 scythe mastery
A+4 (vs elemental damage)
Lengthens Deep Wound duration by 33%
15^50, customized
Works well, but I'm looking for a better armor scythe grip.
Bubahl's Grasp
Earth: 9-41, req 9 scythe mastery
A+7 (vs physical)
15^50, customized
Earth damage will NOT trigger Mark of Pain. I carry it for the extra Armor!
Skills...
[wiki]Enfeebling Blood[/wiki]
[wiki]Ebon Battle Standard of Honor[/wiki]
[wiki]Feel No Pain[/wiki]
[wiki]Mark of Pain[/wiki]
[wiki]Eremite's Attack[/wiki]
[wiki]Chilling Victory[/wiki]
[wiki]Signet of Lost Souls[/wiki]
[wiki]Ursan Blessing[/wiki]
[N/D PvE Ursan Blessing Scythe;OApjYoHa6S2B5i4kWCNXDYVVGlA]
------------------------------------------------
Combat tactics for both builds:
1. Use Enfeebling Blood on the clumped mob, then use Ebon Battle Standard of Honor. Both greatly enhance party performance!
2. Find a healthy, strong foe in the middle of the pack and hex with Mark of Pain. Attack this foe and watch as Mark of Pain deals crazy damage to adjacent foes. Unless this foe is a Boss, don't use the attack skills: you WANT him to live as long as there are adjacent foes to receive the armor-ignoring shadow damage.
The few seconds it takes to Search & Hex also lets your warriors and Minion Meat Shield start their attacks. "Teamwork means the enemy has someone else to shoot at." (An old Army saying)
3. Use weapon skills when appropriate, and Feel No Pain when health gets low.
4. Re-apply Enfeebling Blood & Ebon Battle Standard of Honor as they recharge. Energy never a problem unless the enemy refuses to die.
5. Use Signet of Lost Souls when health or energy needs a boost. This is the LEAST used skill in the build.
6. Use Ursan Blessing when...
- You keep getting blinded & need Ursan touch skills
- A tough mob or Boss needs Ursan knock-down to disrupt skills
- The battle is going sour & you need the Ursan Health & Armor buff
- You get bored and crave the Ursan Growl & Graphics
---------------------------------------------------
Variations Common to Both of the above builds:
Replace Signet of Lost Souls with Rez if running with Humans instead of Heros.
Replace Enfeebling Blood with [wiki]Ulcerous Lungs[/wiki]
(Powerful degen, but useless for foes that don't bleed)
Replace one axe/scythe skill with [wiki]I am the strongest[/wiki] -PLUS-
Replace Feel No Pain with [wiki]Taste of Death[/wiki]
(Requires MM in party so that Taste of Death can steal 160 hp from a minion)
If the foes in a particular region tend to NOT attack in adjacent mobs, replace Mark of Pain with something else.
Move all Curses Attrib pts to Death Magic, and place the extra in Blood.
Replace Enfeebling Blood with [wiki]Animate Shambling Horror[/wiki] (etc)
Replace Mark of Pain with [wiki]Dark Bond[/wiki]
(This is a great way to divert damage elsewhere! HOWEVER, make sure that there are NO Hero MM's in the party! They quickly convert corpses to Minions and you will rarely get a chance to use your minion skill. Since Dark Bond will ONLY work with YOUR minions, you've wasted 2 skill slots.)
With high Death Magic, you can also replace Ebon Battle Standard of Honor with [wiki]Rotting Flesh[/wiki]. However, make sure that the vast majority of your foes are both non-human and fleshy.
----------------------------------------------
End Note
The N/W build seems to be a bit better: Shield provides A+11 for survivability, and the Axe triggers Mark of Pain faster than the scythe. When my Necro has higher Deldrimor rank, I'll try beefing the Scythe build with [wiki]Drunken Master[/wiki] and [wiki]Great Dwarf Armor[/wiki].
Testing was exclusively in Normal Mode, mostly in Varajar Fells. Also used it with success in Secret Lair of the Snowmen, Nightfallen Jahai, Sorrow's Furnace, and several other places.
Both builds are an absolute blast to use! Try them out, and let me know what you think.
06 Mar 2008 at 12:40 - 28
bad
12 chars
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