ArenaNet said that the secondary skill system was originally implemented to parallel Magic: The Gathering and its tendency to feature deck using two colors of mana. However, unlike MtG, in GW you need to invest a lot of resources into a secondary profession, specifically attribute points and skill slots. (in MtG, usuing a second color takes no more effort than only using one)
99% of the builds I make (and also see) use only skills from the Primary profession. You only have 7-8 skill slots; you have to make them count.
It was somewhat innovative back in 2005, but now, a secondary profession merely justifies bad builds and exploitive class interaction.
What's the point of the secondary profession?
Zinger314
Numa Pompilius
You realize that the similarity is that a player in GW is like a single card in MtG, right?
Anyway, it very much depends whether you get any mileage out of your secondary. For me, my Rangers, Necros and Eles typically don't, my Warriors, Mesmers, and Monks typically do.
Anyway, it very much depends whether you get any mileage out of your secondary. For me, my Rangers, Necros and Eles typically don't, my Warriors, Mesmers, and Monks typically do.
angmar_nite
Mind blast + Secondary is win.
Bohya
You might aswell
If you don't want to use skills from the other profession then don't. It just gives you more to choose from.
This is one of the very minor reasons out of the thousands of major ones why Guild Wars is better than many other MMOs.
If you don't want to use skills from the other profession then don't. It just gives you more to choose from.
This is one of the very minor reasons out of the thousands of major ones why Guild Wars is better than many other MMOs.
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
| What's the point of the secondary profession? |
Longasc
Conjures for physical attackers
Plage Touch
Res Spells
Splinter Weapon for Rangers
Mending Touch for Rangers
Earth Elementalists and Mystic Regeneration
Dervishes and Wild Blow
just to name the ones I was just thinking about. It is not only Wammos with Healing Hands and Mending that use secondary professions.
My Necro usually has only Necro skills, other classes tend to mix and match more as seen above. Calling taking advantage of the secondary by default exploitive is blunt and oversimplying, just wrong.
Plage Touch
Res Spells
Splinter Weapon for Rangers
Mending Touch for Rangers
Earth Elementalists and Mystic Regeneration
Dervishes and Wild Blow
just to name the ones I was just thinking about. It is not only Wammos with Healing Hands and Mending that use secondary professions.
My Necro usually has only Necro skills, other classes tend to mix and match more as seen above. Calling taking advantage of the secondary by default exploitive is blunt and oversimplying, just wrong.
Mr Emu
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Originally Posted by angmar_nite
Mind blast + Secondary is win.
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Musei Karasu
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Originally Posted by Zinger314
(in MtG, usuing a second color takes no more effort than only using one)
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Biostem
You use the secondary to supplement, or make up for, your primary profession's strengths and/or weaknesses. A good example is a warrior; you don't have any real condition or hex removal, but numerous other professions do. Also, as to your point about heavy investment; well, you can max out 2 attributes, but to do more than that you do have to sacrifice maxing it out to get decent levels. Having 1 attribute at 12 (before runes/armor bonuses) and another 2 at 9 or 10 isn't so bad...
Still, there are a pretty good selection of skills unlinked to any attribute as well...
Still, there are a pretty good selection of skills unlinked to any attribute as well...
FlamingMetroid
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:A/...Blossom_Farmer
most PvE assassins just kind of sat there and weren't worth the party slot before this
most PvE assassins just kind of sat there and weren't worth the party slot before this
Diddy bow
Thumpers
Death pact sig
GOLE
ya know...
Death pact sig
GOLE
ya know...
Kusandaa
Most of the time I tend to use skills from my primary profession. But some well, I have characters that use secondary profession's skills (R/P Packhunter, W/Rt VwK farmer, N/Mo 55, Mo/D 55...).
Or, I use one skill from a different profession (N/Me Echo SS or SV, X/Rt with DPSig, Rebirth on my necro, pretty sure I had to run a A/D for something O_o;;...)
Or, I use one skill from a different profession (N/Me Echo SS or SV, X/Rt with DPSig, Rebirth on my necro, pretty sure I had to run a A/D for something O_o;;...)
Bryant Again
It's definantly innovative, but not as deep as I'd like it to be. Can't say much about other classes, but my Warrior in PvE's secondary just feels like a tiny little helping hand - at least, that's how it used to be. Now I could care less about my secondary profession. I actually wish I could just be a W/.
Faer
[skill]Gale[/skill][skill]Crushing Blow[/skill]
I <3 2005.
I <3 2005.
I pwnd U
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Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
Death Pact Signet.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by longac
Conjures for physical attackers
Plage Touch Res Spells Splinter Weapon for Rangers Mending Touch for Rangers Earth Elementalists and Mystic Regeneration Dervishes and Wild Blow |
knoll
[skill]Echo[/skill][skill]Arcane Echo[/skill][skill]Mending[/skill]
Biostem
One major opportunity GW1 missed out on was to have sets of skills particular to certain primary/secondary combinations; having w/n only skills, or mo/rt only skills would have gone a long way to make players feel more individual and versatile. Right now, the only reason to use a combination is for a certain secondary profession skill, and that's it. If a w/n could get "death knight" skills, and a mo/rt could get "divine spiritualist" skills, it would really add a lot more flavor to the game.
FlamingMetroid
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Originally Posted by knoll
[skill]Echo[/skill][skill]Arcane Echo[/skill][skill]Mending[/skill]
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12'd
GloryFox
I agree with Zinger, secondary professions have ruined some classes IMO. For instance, why bother ever taking an assassin into Slavers Exile when all you really need is one skill from the assassin line of skills to beat Duncan. I hope secondary professions are left out of GW2.
Bryant Again
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Originally Posted by GloryFox
I hope secondary professions are left out of GW2.
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Crom The Pale
What I think we needed was a set of secondary proff skills that really worked only as secondary skills and more defined primary skills that were not useable by other proffessions.
quickmonty
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Originally Posted by knoll
[skill]Echo[/skill][skill]Arcane Echo[/skill][skill]Mending[/skill]
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Jetdoc
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Originally Posted by Zinger314
ArenaNet said that the secondary skill system was originally implemented to parallel Magic: The Gathering and its tendency to feature deck using two colors of mana. However, unlike MtG, in GW you need to invest a lot of resources into a secondary profession, specifically attribute points and skill slots. (in MtG, usuing a second color takes no more effort than only using one).
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Turtle222
secondary professions will never be left out in gw2, but yes i agree, more focus should be developed on the primary aspect, as 7/8 skills are usually primary with a secondary used as utility etc.
Van Goghs Ear
the secondary profession usually only plays the role of utility and thus does not require a large investment. For example:
A deathpact hammer warrior
A glyph renewal or glyph energy gale dom mesmer
A cripshot with mending touch, or the old blackout cripshot to deny warrior adren
A glyph monk for aegis cancel spamming
However there are some builds that require more investment, or often times the primary class profession's exclusive attribute is deemed more desirable than the other primary attribute. For example:
Fast cast nuker, fast cast anything
Thumper or assassin ranger
The old N/Rt before the nerf to soul reaping, etc, etc
Then there are some that just find more of a balance between secondary and primary such as the mindblast E/D or a conjure warrior.
A deathpact hammer warrior
A glyph renewal or glyph energy gale dom mesmer
A cripshot with mending touch, or the old blackout cripshot to deny warrior adren
A glyph monk for aegis cancel spamming
However there are some builds that require more investment, or often times the primary class profession's exclusive attribute is deemed more desirable than the other primary attribute. For example:
Fast cast nuker, fast cast anything
Thumper or assassin ranger
The old N/Rt before the nerf to soul reaping, etc, etc
Then there are some that just find more of a balance between secondary and primary such as the mindblast E/D or a conjure warrior.
kazjun
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Biostem
One major opportunity GW1 missed out on was to have sets of skills particular to certain primary/secondary combinations; having w/n only skills, or mo/rt only skills would have gone a long way to make players feel more individual and versatile. Right now, the only reason to use a combination is for a certain secondary profession skill, and that's it. If a w/n could get "death knight" skills, and a mo/rt could get "divine spiritualist" skills, it would really add a lot more flavor to the game.
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As far as secondaries goes, better to have the choice and choose not to than to have no choice at all. And yes there are skills which seem to make other classes 'unneeded' (though you can do duncan without swap) but I reckon that's more a case of a skill needing to be moved into into a primary profession to limit who can actually use it. I remember when critical agility first came out, my warr jumped on it like ele's jumped on to SF. Then they changed it to vary in duration with critical strikes and I haven't used it since. Though I don't reckon swap should be changed just cause of duncans.
Buster
Secondary professions are clearly not needed to make a successful character. Most of my characters only use a secondary just for a rez, my ss necro I only use arcane echo just to echo ss. Not against secondary professions at all. For example, if they gave warrior a skill to remove conditions or hexes would they really need to go w/mo ? Probably not. I even think if they did away with secondary professions less skills would be altered and people would enjoy more balanced play.
majikmajikmajik
you also just compared a game that cost $40-$210 for unlimited profession and skill combinations to a card game that can cost $0-$400 for 60 cards
Zinger314
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Originally Posted by majikmajikmajik
you also just compared a game that cost $40-$210 for unlimited profession and skill combinations to a card game that can cost $0-$400 for 60 cards
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Will I remain competitive if I do not buy the chapters? Will I be able to compete with and against others if I have only some of the Guild Wars chapters? Yes. Purchasing the newer chapters of Guild Wars will not make you strictly more powerful. You will have access to many more strategic options, due to the expanding nature of the skills, abilities, items and professions that you enjoy with each chapter. It would be similar to building a deck in Magic: The Gathering: The more cards you own, the greater the number of different playing decks you can choose to play. When you buy the chapters of Guild Wars, you will acquire a larger collection of skills and abilities from which to build your skill set, but you will not gain more power. So if you purchase a chapter and your friend does not, you will still be able to play competitively against and with one another. |
I also ROFL at the concept of MtG being more limited than Guild Wars. There's atleast 150 well-balanced cards every three months, and that's only the secondary sets...
Van Goghs Ear
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Originally Posted by Buster
Secondary professions are clearly not needed to make a successful character. Most of my characters only use a secondary just for a rez, my ss necro I only use arcane echo just to echo ss. Not against secondary professions at all. For example, if they gave warrior a skill to remove conditions or hexes would they really need to go w/mo ? Probably not. I even think if they did away with secondary professions less skills would be altered and people would enjoy more balanced play.
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As a Warrior/Dervish I can pack viable enchantment removal and self healing options for myself. However by having the added bonus of enchant removal, I lose the benefit that say a W/Mo might have with self condition and hex removal. If I go Warrior/Ele, I can potentially bring more damage with conjures, but then I lose the utility I get from the other classes. As a warrior mesmer I can use ranged interrupts, and passive hex removal, but then I lose those other utilities, and so on. If you just gave warriors all that utility without having to limit themselves to just a certain amount of it, you would start to come into balance issues.
fenix
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Originally Posted by Faer
[skill]Gale[/skill][skill]Crushing Blow[/skill]
I <3 2005. |
As for secondaries, having them allows for a lot of imba builds, but without them most bars would be a lot more suckier.
WinterSnowblind
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Originally Posted by knoll
[skill]Echo[/skill][skill]Arcane Echo[/skill][skill]Mending[/skill]
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Jennie
I hope instead of secondary professions they just concentrate on species bonus. Like different things for norn, human, asura ect. with the ability to choose a primary profession. No need for secondary as enough diversity would be provided.
Nyktos
Cards of your second colour in Magic take up deck slots just as much as second profession skills take up skill slots in GW.
Phaern Majes
Plenty of anti-condition monk skills that are great for warriors. [skill]Mending touch[/skill] ftw.
Lykan
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| 99% of the builds I make (and also see) use only skills from the Primary profession. |
The secondary system is great and it better be in GW2.
U Wanna Die
Don't you realize that not 99.99% of builds only use one profession and more like maybe 50% if that do.
gremlin
The present skill system depends on secondary classes so we have to use those skills as they tend to make a more effective build than using one class.
This is not true for all classes some are pretty good just using their own skills.
I agree with the comments about more skills that are primary only and cannot be taken as secondary skills, so yes an expansion of the prime skill attribute where many of the best and most powerful skills use the primary attribute.
An Elementalist/* should always be far better at those skills than a */Elementalist.
Maybe the idea of free form characters mooted for GW2 where you have a free choice at the characters start then each choice limits future choices.
ie
Heavy armour would stop you using the more complicated and powerful spells or you couldn't use a bow easily in a full helm and armoured gauntlets.
Immersing yourself in death rituals might affect your ability to heal effectively and so on.
This is not true for all classes some are pretty good just using their own skills.
I agree with the comments about more skills that are primary only and cannot be taken as secondary skills, so yes an expansion of the prime skill attribute where many of the best and most powerful skills use the primary attribute.
An Elementalist/* should always be far better at those skills than a */Elementalist.
Maybe the idea of free form characters mooted for GW2 where you have a free choice at the characters start then each choice limits future choices.
ie
Heavy armour would stop you using the more complicated and powerful spells or you couldn't use a bow easily in a full helm and armoured gauntlets.
Immersing yourself in death rituals might affect your ability to heal effectively and so on.
Numa Pompilius
So... let me get this straight: you guys want the optional second profession removed, because it is useless and overpowered at the same time?
Frankly I don't understand what the beef is here.
Frankly I don't understand what the beef is here.
Buster
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Originally Posted by Van Goghs Ear
actually, in many cases it's the secondary class that DOES provide the balance. I realize at times there are unfortunate combos that can be imbalanced, but take a warrior for example.
As a Warrior/Dervish I can pack viable enchantment removal and self healing options for myself. However by having the added bonus of enchant removal, I lose the benefit that say a W/Mo might have with self condition and hex removal. If I go Warrior/Ele, I can potentially bring more damage with conjures, but then I lose the utility I get from the other classes. As a warrior mesmer I can use ranged interrupts, and passive hex removal, but then I lose those other utilities, and so on. If you just gave warriors all that utility without having to limit themselves to just a certain amount of it, you would start to come into balance issues. |
Would the inspiration line of the mesmer be altered every skills change if we did not have secondary professions ? No.
Would we ever get the soul reaping change if people in HA didnt abuse spiritway or those N/RT healing builds ? No.
Can every class still do good damage and be successful GW if we didn't have secondary professions ? Absoloutely.
I'm not against secondary classes at all but look at all the skills in the past 2 years that have been altered due to the fact classes were able to have a secondary which actually weakened classes. I think they should limit the amout of points one can put into a secondary class to be honest. This way you can still have use of a secondary and yet still not have to worry about builds/skills always needing balance changes.