I was testing a hammer build I've been using for a while and I realized how much damage per second I did than the run of the mill Dslash spammer. Using W/mo I took 4 adren skills + my enraged smash, and starting off right away instead of waiting for the D-slash adren to build up, started hitting with beserker stance with FGJ, after about 3 seconds I was spamming enraged smash away, hitting about 80 to 95 damage per second, it seems to be more effective than dragonslash when it comes to dealing out damage.
So, this begs the discussion. Has anyone else ever tried enraged smash? Cause I use it alot and aside from the fact I barely see any other hammer users, the ones I do usually aren't running anything outside of the good old dev hammer set.
Enraged smash, more effective than Dragonslash?
Coolquest
Winterclaw
So you want to waste 4 skill slots in order to use the skill in the 5th slot? That's a waste of an eilte and in bar slots. BTW, beserker stance is bad.
Then you are giving up 16AL and 30 hp so you can use a weapon that is based around knockdowns, but you aren't going to be able to do a lot of knocking down because you used 4 slots on ade skills, one on a bad elite, and another on a bad stance.
The only people who should use enraged smash are people who are near the beginning of factions and don't have better campiagns or skills to use. I'm sorry but even though you can use it a little in pve, it doesn't make it a good skill.
Then you are giving up 16AL and 30 hp so you can use a weapon that is based around knockdowns, but you aren't going to be able to do a lot of knocking down because you used 4 slots on ade skills, one on a bad elite, and another on a bad stance.
The only people who should use enraged smash are people who are near the beginning of factions and don't have better campiagns or skills to use. I'm sorry but even though you can use it a little in pve, it doesn't make it a good skill.
Oblivious Moose
sad, my guild ran a fun gvg night with this concept build, used FGJ!, and BoA. frenzy = little more dps, but more dangerous, since gvg, we stuck with BoA.
after testing out on master of damage, we were hitting nearly 300+ dps.
took it in gvg as said before, and completely slaughtered the other teams that werent heavy on war shutdown.. as our team had NO conditions, and very limited hex's, mainly anti-melee, we were able to pull off 8 flawless, outa 9 wins, and 1 loss, in just a couple of days.
i wouldnt say its great for gvg's, but it sure was hella fun to play around with.
after testing out on master of damage, we were hitting nearly 300+ dps.
took it in gvg as said before, and completely slaughtered the other teams that werent heavy on war shutdown.. as our team had NO conditions, and very limited hex's, mainly anti-melee, we were able to pull off 8 flawless, outa 9 wins, and 1 loss, in just a couple of days.
i wouldnt say its great for gvg's, but it sure was hella fun to play around with.
Cherng Butter
Who says you have to spend time building up Dragon Slash? FGJ! + Enraging Charge?
jonnieboi05
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherng Butter
Who says you have to spend time building up Dragon Slash? FGJ! + Enraging Charge?
+enduring harmony? xD
jimmyboveto
The thing about d-slash is that it works incredibly well with SY. Thus, when your team needs buffing you keep SY up, and when you just need to deal insane dps you spam D-slash. Also, D-slash takes up one skill slot while enraged smash takes multiple skills to make it effective. I think D-slash wins in terms of usefulness.
Cherng Butter
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnieBoi05
+enduring harmony? xD
Given, but EH doesn't really help you get to full adrenaline :P
draxynnic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterclaw
So you want to waste 4 skill slots in order to use the skill in the 5th slot? That's a waste of an eilte and in bar slots. BTW, beserker stance is bad.
I've actually done something similar to this myself. The trick is to load up with adrenaline skills that you don't necessarily want to be using as soon as they charge, but are there if you need them. One of those can be a knockdown, so it's there if you need it. Flail and its counter stance Rush can be two more - if you're gaining adrenaline fast enough, Flail is likely to recharge long before it needs to be renewed. Lion's Comfort is a self-heal that can just sit there being fully charged until you need it. Yeti's Smash if you get surrounded, or one of a number of condition-inflicting attacks. Each of which can just sit there fueling Enraged Smash until you actually need them. (And then there's the PvE-only skills...)
Berserker Stance, however, does pretty much NOTHING for the build. It'll break as soon as you use Enraged, and the adrenaline gain boost doesn't stack with the boost from FGJ! Even Flurry might serve you better.
Still, with all that, I do think Dragon Slash wins - it does about the same damage, can be quickly charged with Enraging Charge, and Dragon Slash powers other skills rather than relying on other skills to power it.
Berserker Stance, however, does pretty much NOTHING for the build. It'll break as soon as you use Enraged, and the adrenaline gain boost doesn't stack with the boost from FGJ! Even Flurry might serve you better.
Still, with all that, I do think Dragon Slash wins - it does about the same damage, can be quickly charged with Enraging Charge, and Dragon Slash powers other skills rather than relying on other skills to power it.
Winterclaw
Quote:
Let me put it to you this way, let's say I wanted to use a skill bar that has 4 signets on it so that I can use symbolic strike. Would you think that's a good idea?
xPIMPx
Enraging smash is only req 2 Adrenaline, Symbolic = 4. I used to use this build alot in pve and dont see how its a waste of skill slots tbh. I can still tank yet also dealing high dps. What other skills would i have there instead, probs just other attack skills...
kel77
You said you can reach a max of 95 DPS with that build. while a Dslash can easily reach 130 with sup runes, and constantly keep up SY!
draxynnic
W/Me. Healsig, Sunspear/Res Sig, and a couple of Mesmer signets for some specific utility to deal with a particular situation.
It's not exactly a cookie-cutter build, but it's not obviously a bad idea in every possible situation either. I wouldn't do it specifically to power Symbolic Strike, but if for some reason you're carrying the signets anyway, you might as well carry the skill that becomes a non-elite Quivering Blade without the downside to go alongside them.
Enraged Smash does have the advantage of being able to be used twice as often - coupled, of course, with the downside that it takes up the elite slot. However, my point is that there are a number of skills that might be advantageous to have fully charged on your bar without necessarily wanting to use them immediately. Flail... when your last usage is still running. Lion's Comfort... when you don't need the heal just yet. Dwarven Headbutt... that you're keeping in reserve for when you need a hard interrupt. Whirlwind Attack... but you only have one target to hit right now.
You shouldn't be carrying these skills specifically to fuel Enraging Smash - you carry them because they provide utility that you might need, and Enraging means you can have that utility while still being able to dish out a decent amount of damage - instead of just filling those slots with a whole lot of other damaging attack skills.
But yes, as I've said, I think Dragon Slash wins. But you don't necessarily have to use
[skill]"For Great Justice!"[/skill][skill]Enraging Charge[/skill]
[skill]Steelfang Slash[/skill][skill]Dragon Slash[/skill][skill]Flail[/skill]
(or your variant or alternate cookie-cutter build of choice) every time you wander out of the town gates. Sometimes, a non-cookie-cutter may even serve you better (however rarely).
It's not exactly a cookie-cutter build, but it's not obviously a bad idea in every possible situation either. I wouldn't do it specifically to power Symbolic Strike, but if for some reason you're carrying the signets anyway, you might as well carry the skill that becomes a non-elite Quivering Blade without the downside to go alongside them.
Enraged Smash does have the advantage of being able to be used twice as often - coupled, of course, with the downside that it takes up the elite slot. However, my point is that there are a number of skills that might be advantageous to have fully charged on your bar without necessarily wanting to use them immediately. Flail... when your last usage is still running. Lion's Comfort... when you don't need the heal just yet. Dwarven Headbutt... that you're keeping in reserve for when you need a hard interrupt. Whirlwind Attack... but you only have one target to hit right now.
You shouldn't be carrying these skills specifically to fuel Enraging Smash - you carry them because they provide utility that you might need, and Enraging means you can have that utility while still being able to dish out a decent amount of damage - instead of just filling those slots with a whole lot of other damaging attack skills.
But yes, as I've said, I think Dragon Slash wins. But you don't necessarily have to use
[skill]"For Great Justice!"[/skill][skill]Enraging Charge[/skill]
[skill]Steelfang Slash[/skill][skill]Dragon Slash[/skill][skill]Flail[/skill] (or your variant or alternate cookie-cutter build of choice) every time you wander out of the town gates. Sometimes, a non-cookie-cutter may even serve you better (however rarely).
Marty Silverblade
Quote:
Originally Posted by draxynnic
It's not exactly a cookie-cutter build, but it's not obviously a bad idea in every possible situation either. I wouldn't do it specifically to power Symbolic Strike, but if for some reason you're carrying the signets anyway, you might as well carry the skill that becomes a non-elite Quivering Blade without the downside to go alongside them.
Enraged Smash does have the advantage of being able to be used twice as often - coupled, of course, with the downside that it takes up the elite slot. However, my point is that there are a number of skills that might be advantageous to have fully charged on your bar without necessarily wanting to use them immediately. Flail... when your last usage is still running. Lion's Comfort... when you don't need the heal just yet. Dwarven Headbutt... that you're keeping in reserve for when you need a hard interrupt. Whirlwind Attack... but you only have one target to hit right now.
You shouldn't be carrying these skills specifically to fuel Enraging Smash - you carry them because they provide utility that you might need, and Enraging means you can have that utility while still being able to dish out a decent amount of damage - instead of just filling those slots with a whole lot of other damaging attack skills.
But yes, as I've said, I think Dragon Slash wins. But you don't necessarily have to use
[skill]"For Great Justice!"[/skill][skill]Enraging Charge[/skill]
[skill]Steelfang Slash[/skill][skill]Dragon Slash[/skill][skill]Flail[/skill] (or your variant or alternate cookie-cutter build of choice) every time you wander out of the town gates. Sometimes, a non-cookie-cutter may even serve you better (however rarely). The thing with having the utility on the ES bar is that once you use them, which you would have to (otherwise your essentially playing with half a bar), your damage drops significantly, at least until you can recharge them.
The DSlash wins easy here, +42 (assuming a sup rune) on every hit with full utility > +42 on every hit with restrictive use of your utility.
draxynnic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade
. It does fall short of DS in most if not all situations (which I've said in every post I've made in this thread, so it's not something I need to be persuaded of) but it could be worth experimenting with if you're ever playing in an area where you don't need the cutting-edge builds.
The Meth
Unlike dragon slash though, Enraged won't fail miserably because you took a single swing at a blocking target and lost all of your adrenaline. I could see it becoming a pretty decent build, you have lots of added pressure along with the rest of your adren skills being ready to knockdown or spike with the rest of your build at will. Berserker stance is a joke though.
draxynnic
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Meth
Unlike dragon slash though, Enraged won't fail miserably because you took a single swing at a blocking target and lost all of your adrenaline. I could see it becoming a pretty decent build, you have lots of added pressure along with the rest of your adren skills being ready to knockdown or spike with the rest of your build at will. Berserker stance is a joke though.
I'd completely forgotten about that aspect of DS... annoying as it is when it happens.
Or when the target just plain dies between the skill activating and the blow landing...
Or when the target just plain dies between the skill activating and the blow landing...
Coolquest
Quote:
Originally Posted by kel77
You said you can reach a max of 95 DPS with that build. while a Dslash can easily reach 130 with sup runes, and constantly keep up SY!
I've never tested this build using the max out hammer attribute, I use about 10 hammer mastery when I use an enraged smash build. I'll go test that since I'm on GW right now.
The reason I made this thread was mainly the fact that I feel hammers don't get enough love, they're fantastic weapons and can be quite versatile.
Edit: I tried using this with 16 hammer mastery.
If I'm not using a conjure weapon I dealt about +10 more damage per hit and 150 per crit using sundering.
The reason I made this thread was mainly the fact that I feel hammers don't get enough love, they're fantastic weapons and can be quite versatile.
Edit: I tried using this with 16 hammer mastery.
If I'm not using a conjure weapon I dealt about +10 more damage per hit and 150 per crit using sundering.
draxynnic
Okay.
Using DS with 16 Swordsmanship and 13 Strength on the Master of Damage gives an average DPS of 65 over the 20 seconds that FGJ! was active. This is using a customised icy sword where the insignia condition is not met. Procedure is to charge with Enraging Charge, activate FGJ!, activate Flail (and reactivate when it ends) and unleash a storm of Dragon Slash attacks until Dragon Slash fails to recharge itself. Best damage in a single second (presumably, damage on a critical hit) was 91.
Using ES with 16 Hammer Mastery and 13 Strength on the Master of Damage gives an average DPS of 70 over the 20 seconds that FGJ! was active. This is using a customised shocking hammer where the insignia condition is not met. Procedure is to attack using Mokele Smash with FGJ! active, activate Flail (and reactivate when it ends) and unleash a storm of Enraging Smash attacks until Enraging Smash fails to recharge itself. Four adrenal skills (including Flail) with 4 adrenaline requirements are used to power ES: specifically, Flail, Counter Blow, Rush and Watch Yourself! Best damage in a single second (presumably, damage on a critical hit) was 118.
An experiment was made using Enraging Charge instead of Mokele Smash as the starting skill to see what effect Mokele had. Surprisingly, this gave an average DPS of 72 - suggesting that the initial adrenaline-feeding skill is statistically unimportant over 20 seconds.
It is worth noting here, however, that the Dragon Slash build had three unused skill slots (not including a res slot) which could be used to add utility, enhance the build (adding Enduring Harmony to keep FGJ! going for longer, for instance), or set up a knockdown lock. By contrast, modifying the ES build (short of switching out one 4 adrenaline requirement skill for another with a requirement of 4 or less) or using its adrenal utility skills will lesson the DPS.
(It should also be noted, as I believe Coolquest is a newer player and hence possibly unfamiliar with this, that the base attack rate with a hammer is slightly slower than with a sword or axe - one swing per 1.66 seconds before modifications compared to one per 1.33 - so it may not be performing as well, comparatively speaking, as may be concluded simply by looking at the damage per hit.)
Using DS with 16 Swordsmanship and 13 Strength on the Master of Damage gives an average DPS of 65 over the 20 seconds that FGJ! was active. This is using a customised icy sword where the insignia condition is not met. Procedure is to charge with Enraging Charge, activate FGJ!, activate Flail (and reactivate when it ends) and unleash a storm of Dragon Slash attacks until Dragon Slash fails to recharge itself. Best damage in a single second (presumably, damage on a critical hit) was 91.
Using ES with 16 Hammer Mastery and 13 Strength on the Master of Damage gives an average DPS of 70 over the 20 seconds that FGJ! was active. This is using a customised shocking hammer where the insignia condition is not met. Procedure is to attack using Mokele Smash with FGJ! active, activate Flail (and reactivate when it ends) and unleash a storm of Enraging Smash attacks until Enraging Smash fails to recharge itself. Four adrenal skills (including Flail) with 4 adrenaline requirements are used to power ES: specifically, Flail, Counter Blow, Rush and Watch Yourself! Best damage in a single second (presumably, damage on a critical hit) was 118.
An experiment was made using Enraging Charge instead of Mokele Smash as the starting skill to see what effect Mokele had. Surprisingly, this gave an average DPS of 72 - suggesting that the initial adrenaline-feeding skill is statistically unimportant over 20 seconds.
It is worth noting here, however, that the Dragon Slash build had three unused skill slots (not including a res slot) which could be used to add utility, enhance the build (adding Enduring Harmony to keep FGJ! going for longer, for instance), or set up a knockdown lock. By contrast, modifying the ES build (short of switching out one 4 adrenaline requirement skill for another with a requirement of 4 or less) or using its adrenal utility skills will lesson the DPS.
(It should also be noted, as I believe Coolquest is a newer player and hence possibly unfamiliar with this, that the base attack rate with a hammer is slightly slower than with a sword or axe - one swing per 1.66 seconds before modifications compared to one per 1.33 - so it may not be performing as well, comparatively speaking, as may be concluded simply by looking at the damage per hit.)
Coolquest
Quote:
Originally Posted by draxynnic
(It should also be noted, as I believe Coolquest is a newer player and hence possibly unfamiliar with this, that the base attack rate with a hammer is slightly slower than with a sword or axe - one swing per 1.66 seconds before modifications compared to one per 1.33 - so it may not be performing as well, comparatively speaking, as may be concluded simply by looking at the damage per hit.)
I know about the slower rate of attack for hammers, and
I've probably been playing this game longer than you (2.3 years or so give or take), I just don't play GW quite as much as I used to, so I tend to forget some things . That and I didn't go very far into the depths of PVP, I enjoy the occasional AB match but for me its mostly exploring, so I understand why some of you might think I'm inexperienced.
I'd also like to mention that in PVP the standard DS build cannot use some of its better abilities (24/7 KD and save yourselves), but than again if you bring a hammer to a PVP match, you bring it for the KD mainly so an enraged smash build wouldn't be as effective.
Edit: going off the idea of a PVE only DS build, I made a PVE only enraged smash build.
OQkSE55ShPlFnimiGW8VXFmY
Using this, I can inflict a consistent cracked armor along with an almost infinite stream of enraged smashes.
I've probably been playing this game longer than you (2.3 years or so give or take), I just don't play GW quite as much as I used to, so I tend to forget some things
. That and I didn't go very far into the depths of PVP, I enjoy the occasional AB match but for me its mostly exploring, so I understand why some of you might think I'm inexperienced.I'd also like to mention that in PVP the standard DS build cannot use some of its better abilities (24/7 KD and save yourselves), but than again if you bring a hammer to a PVP match, you bring it for the KD mainly so an enraged smash build wouldn't be as effective.
Edit: going off the idea of a PVE only DS build, I made a PVE only enraged smash build.
OQkSE55ShPlFnimiGW8VXFmY
Using this, I can inflict a consistent cracked armor along with an almost infinite stream of enraged smashes.
Savio
Quote:
Originally Posted by draxynnic
Quote:
Quote:
You forgot the biggest one - no "SY!" spam. Forgoing constant 85% damage reduction to the rest of the party deserves a mention.|
one swing per 1.66 seconds
1.75 seconds.
The Meth
Here's my attempt to make a viable build:
[skill]Enraged Smash[/skill][skill]Hammer Bash[/skill][skill]Pulverizing Smash[/skill][skill]Protector's Strike[/skill][skill]Renewing Smash[/skill][skill]Flail[/skill][skill]Enraging Charge[/skill][skill]"For Great Justice!"[/skill] From the get-go you have a strong spike with knockdown + deep wound + strong finisher along with the pressure of enraged. As soon as you unleash said spike you can recharge both the spike and enraged with renewing smash -> enraging charge. Might not win me the coveted 'l337est build of the year' award, but its decent. It doesn't beat out dragon slash + SY + Brawling Headbutt, but then using PvE skills in the first place is really just cheating.
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Meth
[skill]Hammer Bash[/skill][skill]Pulverizing Smash[/skill]
/fail.
Bash loses all adrenaline, Pulv requires adrenaline; and I'd rather not have to rely on a team mate for a KD. Tyla
Enraged Smash is bad.
DragonSlash is better for several situations. It can insta-power "SY!", instacharge your IAS (if using Flail) and hits once every 1 second (while under Frenzy/Flail). Enraged Smash offers nothing of the like, and requires slots to be used for it's max power.
The Meth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
/fail.
Bash loses all adrenaline, Pulv requires adrenaline; and I'd rather not have to rely on a team mate for a KD. lol, I guess I deserve such humiliation for theorycrafting a build in the morning... It does still work though if you use hammer bash -> enraging + protectors -> pulverizing. Or just replace with Brawling Headbutt, though its a pve skill.
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Meth
lol, I guess I deserve such humiliation for theorycrafting a build in the morning...
It does still work though if you use hammer bash -> enraging + protectors -> pulverizing. Or just replace with Brawling Headbutt, though its a pve skill. I've found [skill=text]counter blow[/skill] to be pretty good on an Enraged Smash guy - it's a puny 4 adr, and KDing with it doesn't kill your adrenaline (and thusly, your DPS). It's a pretty reliable KD too - even monks wand between spells in PvE, and you can use it with Pulverising.
The Meth
Nice catch, I notice too that enemies like to wand a lot. Assuming you could bear the loss of missing a few spikes you could get a combo that only requires 4 adren going, which would let you drop enraging charge for rush, mending touch , enduring finale or something else, since you don't need the huge adren buff.
draxynnic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolquest
I know about the slower rate of attack for hammers, and
I've probably been playing this game longer than you (2.3 years or so give or take), I just don't play GW quite as much as I used to, so I tend to forget some things . That and I didn't go very far into the depths of PVP, I enjoy the occasional AB match but for me its mostly exploring, so I understand why some of you might think I'm inexperienced.
Given that you didn't know how armour worked, I thought it was worth making sure this wasn't somewhere else where you were unaware of just how the mechanics worked.Also, no, 2.3 years isn't enough to have been playing the game longer than I have. Coolquest
Quote:
Originally Posted by draxynnic
Yukito Kunisaki
It's sad to see someone attempting to make a shoddy elite look new getting slapped around, BUT it's nice to see people actually trying to break the KD Cookie Cutter ideal...
Trying to match DS comes down to reliance in a heated fight from an objective perspective. Pros to cons? Enraging Smash pros:No weaknesses when blocked. Does NOT need adrenal engine to get going. Can bring Occasional skills that need not be spammed to work. cons: shuts off 50%+ of your skill bar to be used at full force. Slower atk speed hurts DPS Dragon Slash pros: built-in adrenaline monster engine. High dps, shield protected. High atk speed. Feeds other high adrenaline skills extremely well. cons: when blocked, you're done. Without FGJ, fails at pretty much all else. Isn't nearly as effective with other adrenaline engines, like Dark Fury or Mark of Fury. In my opinion, if done smartly [and with a non FGJ adrenal engine], I'd lean on Enraging Smash. It's different, does a TON of damage and can work even under bad circumstances. I don't see people spamming Counter Blow or Watch Yourself or Lion's Comfort every chance they get so I think it'd work. I suppose a hammer attack build for ES would look like: Enraging Smash, Counter Blow, Pulverising Blow, Flail, Lion's Comfort, Watch Yourself, Mark of Fury, Res Signet A majority of those skills need less than 3 hits with MoF and if you ran 16 hammer, 9 tactics, 8-9 strength, X curses, you'd be fine. [you can switch str for tactics if you change out watch yourself with something str based. More than 7 seconds of Flail isn't needed in my opinion] Would probably work at it's maximum output with a boss that has high hp and defense to deal with.
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki
pros:No weaknesses when blocked. Does NOT need adrenal engine to get going. Can bring Occasional skills that need not be spammed to work. cons: shuts off 50%+ of your skill bar to be used at full force. Slower atk speed hurts DPS |
Quote:
|
Dragon Slash pros: built-in adrenaline monster engine. High dps, shield protected. High atk speed. Feeds other high adrenaline skills extremely well. cons: when blocked, you're done. Without FGJ, fails at pretty much all else. Isn't nearly as effective with other adrenaline engines, like Dark Fury or Mark of Fury. Plain wrong. DS --> Brawling --> Steelfang for when FGJ! is down, constant full adrenaline (and perma knocklock). Personally, I don't even bother with FGJ! on my own PvE DSlasher. I like Disarm and DPSig too much to drop them  Cute though it is, when we add PvE skills into the mix, Enraged Smash simply cannot compare in terms of overall power, utility and usefulness to DSlash.
Yukito Kunisaki
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
You forgot the biggest one - no "SY!" spam. Forgoing constant 85% damage reduction to the rest of the party deserves a mention.
Plain wrong. DS --> Brawling --> Steelfang for when FGJ! is down, constant full adrenaline (and perma knocklock). Personally, I don't even bother with FGJ! on my own PvE DSlasher. I like Disarm and DPSig too much to drop them Cute though it is, when we add PvE skills into the mix, Enraged Smash simply cannot compare in terms of overall power, utility and usefulness to DSlash. Wait a second, can you do brawling headbutt if DS is blocked? I thought it would be undoable after you use DS since everything loses a hit of Adrenaline[unless you speak of waiting to land a 25% normal hit, which means you just wait... I guess. Oh yeah, since it's a touch attack, you can't do steelfang right? Or am I reading the wiki description wrong?] I do however understand that it'd work due to the 5a. loop but only under the condition that it does not get blocked. Hell, why bring FGJ then correct? as you say. Not bring SY! is my option cause, I don't have that, I use Watch Yourself!! instead. I don't have the time to get SY! either sadly... Working with what I got is all I can say...
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki
Wait a second, can you do brawling headbutt if DS is blocked? I thought it would be undoable after you use DS since everything loses a hit of Adrenaline[unless you speak of waiting to land a 25% normal hit, which means you just wait... I guess. Oh yeah, since it's a touch attack, you can't do steelfang right? Or am I reading the wiki description wrong?]
I can think of all of.... one place in the whole of PvE where I ever notice serious blocking, and that's the Kournan archer mobs in Consulate Docks mission.
And they explode because of SS, so they don't really matter.
draxynnic
Kournan archers to be found, well, throughout Kourna? (Silly as they are with Infuriating Heat?) Big Centaur mobs with overlapping Protector's Defense in the Far North Shiverpeaks, especially in Defend the Eye (okay, the last tend to explode from area damage, but they're there).
Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki
Quote: Wait a second, can you do brawling headbutt if DS is blocked? I thought it would be undoable after you use DS since everything loses a hit of Adrenaline[unless you speak of waiting to land a 25% normal hit, which means you just wait... I guess. Oh yeah, since it's a touch attack, you can't do steelfang right? Or am I reading the wiki description wrong?]
I do however understand that it'd work due to the 5a. loop but only under the condition that it does not get blocked. Hell, why bring FGJ then correct? as you say. Not bring SY! is my option cause, I don't have that, I use Watch Yourself!! instead. I don't have the time to get SY! either sadly... Working with what I got is all I can say... If you have a Stonefist Insignia, you have time to take two swings at an enemy before they can get up - the second of which can be Steelfang. An attack speed boost can allow you to get the whole chain in and be starting to use Brawling Headbutt again before they get up - which is how it leads to a knockdown loop. Using FGJ! simplifies the process in two ways - with Charging Strike you can start right off the bat, and for the 20 seconds it lasts you don't need the attack speed boost or Steelfang - just keep cycling between Brawling Headbutt and Dragon Slash will keep them knockdown-locked as long as FGJ! lasts. (I was considering doing my earlier runs on the master of Damage with Brawling Headbutt, but decided that would vary too much with Deldrimnor reputation. Speaking of which... Savio, the point I was making with the 'not statistically important' part was that the random number variation was more important than the starting skill.) It's actually somewhat of a shame, because DS and ES seem to be intended to be similar skills working in different ways to reward a bar loaded with adrenaline skills (you can even kinda see this in their skill icon - the Enraged Smash icon is a hammer superimposed on what could be a dragon's head, very similar in concept to the icon for Dragon Slash). Without FGJ! or Brawling Headbutt/Steelfang synergies, Dragon Slash is still a viable build - load up with adrenal attack, chew through them all as they charge, and then hit DS to recharge or mostly recharge them, and you can get a situation when half or more of your swings are some sort of adrenal attack skill. Heck, I even built a forerunner to the current build using Whirlwind to set up for Steelfang that, as long as the energy lasted and the enemy cooperated, could be getting an adrenal skill of every swing (using other adrenal attacks such as Galrath and Silverwing to cover the recharge time for Whirlwind). Still, the big difference at the moment seems to be that Dragon Slash synergises much better with other skills, especially broken PvE skills like Brawling Headbutt and Save Yourselves!, which is why it's favoured over its cousin.
The Meth
Quote:
Originally Posted by draxynnic
The big difference at the moment seems to be that Dragon Slash synergises much better with other skills, especially broken PvE skills like Brawling Headbutt and Save Yourselves!, which is why it's favoured over its cousin.
That about sums up everything. Enraged smash is pretty good, but nothing short of dev hacks beats dragon slash + pve skills.
Coolquest
Yeah, I didn't really think enraged smash would be on the same level as Dragonslash. I just noticed how much damage you did and thought it'd be fun to discuss it ^_^
Crom The Pale
I gave this a shot and found the dmg was just not significant enough, given the slow speed of the hammer even with PvE skills to bost the dmg and add an extra knockdown.
Stick to hammers for knockdowns and the axe/sword for dmg, at least thats my 2cents.
draxynnic
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Meth
That about sums up everything. Enraged smash is pretty good, but nothing short of dev hacks beats dragon slash + pve skills.
Indeed. If this had started being discussed before PvE skills were all over the place disrupting whatever fragile balance there had been beforehand, however, it might have seen some play. If it wasn't a hammer elite and therefor held back by the general anti-hammer bias.
(Thought experiment: What if it was "Enraged Chop" - an axe elite - instead? With two charged skills - Lion's Comfort and Disrupting Chop, for instance, both skills you don't necessarily want to use as soon as they charge - it matches Whirling Axe without the downside. With 3 - say Agonising Chop, since as an axe warrior, inflicting Deep Wound is your job - it matches Cleave for damage and can be used twice as often. If someone else does the Deep Wound for you and you can keep Dismember in reserve, than it's like you get to do Executioner's every two swings! I'd be willing to bet that something like that would have become a popular PvP build and/or a popular PvE build before PvE skills among Warrior players that like to have some interrupts. Unfortunately, hammers rely on knockdowns for interrupts, and all the non-elite adrenaline knockdowns drain it all instead of just their own...) Beomagi
I use ES and think it's a decent skill.
To prevent the "shutoff" I simply use 5 adrenal skills or more, and actually USE them. I don't spam them, but even if I did, I don't have to worry about 1 or 2 of them recharging. NOR do I mope about half the bar being gone. Dragon slash hits it's limit in the short game. Coming across small groups of mobs on the way to the destination. You're simply not adding your best damage to the party. Assuming you're 20 seconds into the fight, you lose most your damage again. I actually somewhat prefer running with echo + FGJ (40/45s 2x adr) + high damage/adr attacks. After 4 special attacks or so, I'd get a couple normal hits in and be ready to pummel with adrenal attacks again. Enraging smash Flail, rush, counter blow, whirlwind attack, lion's comfort. yes, I ignore deepwound and kd. I rely on my heros to spread deepwound. As with any build based around an elite adrenal skill, you're shutdown with adrenaline denial. It's definitely faster to kill with than my dragon slash warrior. The +40 is lessened by the fast that i'm waiting for 2 hammer swings, but protector's strike does down cut down time, there's flail to help, and the hammer itself is a fair blow. Given the newer skills available, I'll probably be going for kd anyway. pulverizing smash is pretty low on adr. Have left eotn pretty much alone so far. 71.229
[card]Earth Shaker[/card][card]Whirlwind Attack[/card][card]Crude Swing[/card][card]"Save Yourselves!"[/card]
/twelve characters
Yukito Kunisaki
Oh well, after testing it by buying some of the hammer skills [gah, mah plat] and simply using a max hammer from a collector...
The old roles are pretty much set in stone: Axe = spike Eviscerate * Sword = DPS dragon slash* Hammer = KD Lock Devastating* It's a shame really that nobody is willing to accept a DPS hammer attempt simply because it's too pathetically weak. Heck, I'm wrong on that account, ah well... Good thing I love mah axe... 
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