Edit: Oh wow my spelling is really off today, especially the thread title 0.0
How important ARE those small armor bonuses?
Coolquest
I've noticed so many skills like watch yourself! and other items/ect that give little +12 armor bonuses, now I've been playing GW a pretty damned long time, and I've never really given it much thought till now, but how useful are skills like watch yourself and other armor bonus things? This question is aimed towards all classes in general, but warrior especially. Sorry for the noob question, I feel tainted asking it 
Edit: Oh wow my spelling is really off today, especially the thread title 0.0
Edit: Oh wow my spelling is really off today, especially the thread title 0.0
jonnieboi05
well, try the kuz/lux skill called "save yourselves" if you have a very fast adrenal-gaining skill in your build. if you are the type who has long fights for single mobs, you will definately notice the difference. "save yourselves" gives +100 armor to all OTHER party members within earshot for X amount of seconds. this skill, i may as well mention, does require a tad bit of faction into your title to use it affectively. @ r12 (the highest rank, which is 10,000,000 faction), it only lasts for 6 seconds, so, intense adrenal gain is a MUST to have this up at all times.
Voltaic Annihilator
Well i use conviction in my grotto runs without id be dead [gives +24 armor]
Stormlord Alex
A +20 AL "WY!" is ~30% damage reduction.
The blue and green table here should tell you roughly how much damage is reduced...
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Armor_%28rating%29
And for the record, "Save Yourselves!" is l33tsauce - ~85% damage reduction.
The blue and green table here should tell you roughly how much damage is reduced...
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Armor_%28rating%29
And for the record, "Save Yourselves!" is l33tsauce - ~85% damage reduction.
Savio
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JonnieBoi05
if you are the type who fights anything, you will definately notice the difference.
|
Quote:
| this skill, i may as well mention, does require a tad bit of faction into your title to use it affectively. |
jonnieboi05
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Savio
Quote:
|
Quote:
| You only need rank 1 for SY to be effective. |
Coolquest
So wait, please correct me if I am wrong but when a skill such as WY gives you +18 to your armor, that gives you +18 to every piece of armor you have or what? I didn't realize that such a little bit of armor gave such a large bonus!
Celestial_Kitsune
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Coolquest
I've noticed so many skills like watch yourself! and other items/ect that give little +12 armor bonuses, now I've been playing GW a pretty damned long time, and I've never really given it much thought till now, but how useful are skills like watch yourself and other armor bonus things? This question is aimed towards all classes in general, but warrior especially. Sorry for the noob question, I feel tainted asking it
Edit: Oh wow my spelling is really off today, especially the thread title 0.0 |
- Play in Random Arenas with your monk and use only staffs or wands without any armor bonuses.
- Play in Random Arenas with your monk and use a defensive set with +10AL vs damage type shield.
- Observe the difference.
- Draw a conclusion.
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Savio
You only need rank 1 for SY to be effective.
|
Dragon Slash says 3 seconds is plenty.
As does Cyclone Axe, "FGJ!", Focused Anger, Triple Chop, Flail, Aggressive Refrain and all the other things you can use to build adrenaline fast.
But mostly DSlash.
Cherng Butter
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JonnieBoi05
eh? confused. what was there to fix? O.0
6 second duration > 3 second duration |
Tarkin
You never tanked in your life?
+20 is the bridge between life or dead...
+20 is the bridge between life or dead...
Arkantos
Quote:
| 6 second duration > 3 second duration |
Anyways, armor bonuses can save a life, and they can be quite useless. It all depends who you're playing with and what you're fighting.
jonnieboi05
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Cherng Butter
True, but it's good enough at 3 seconds. And who wants to grind all that much?
|
... that hurts. i didn't grind and i have savior of the kurzicks took me 3 1/2 months to geton a side note;
yes, i understood after reading more clearly on what he meant. 3 seconds is still good. ^^
Your titles have nothing to do with the topic, don't go off topic.
^sigh to 'not' going offtopic
anyways, i got my savior via hFF. i did a consistant 50k a day which takes roughly 4 1/2 hours to do.to the OP, as "Arkantos" said,
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by arkantos
Anyways, armor bonuses can save a life, and they can be quite useless. It all depends who you're playing with and what you're fighting.
|
arsie
Well, the difference between the "squishies" and the "tanks" are 60AL vs 80(96-116)AL. So getting +25 and whatever does make a difference.
Someone has got calculations above.
Someone has got calculations above.
Snow Bunny
They're important when your 60AL target is taking 1/3 less damage from your auto attacks, and SoA is making that damage even less.
draxynnic
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Coolquest
So wait, please correct me if I am wrong but when a skill such as WY gives you +18 to your armor, that gives you +18 to every piece of armor you have or what? I didn't realize that such a little bit of armor gave such a large bonus!
|
Instead, each attack has a chance of hitting each piece, and the attack uses the armour level of the piece that is hit. So if you have, say, 70 AL on one piece and 60AL on a different piece due to having different insignias on each piece, it will calculate damage based on 70AL if it hits the first piece, 60AL if it hits the second. The torso piece and leggings have higher chances of being hit - the torso has a 3/8 chance of being hit, the leggings have 2/8, and the head, gloves and feet have 1/8 chances of being hit each. (This is why insignias that don't give a defensive boost such as Radiant have greater effect on the torso and leggings - you're giving up more by not having an armour insignia there due to that area being more likely to be hit.)
Skills that give an armour boost give it to every piece. So in the example of the piece that has 70AL and the piece that has 60, a +20AL skill will boost them to 90 and 80AL respectively.
I hope that clears thing up a little
For more information, there is a wiki page here - which also includes a link to the damage calculation equation.
bj91x
What is that place called? Isle of the Nameless? Try your damage against the 60, 80, and 100 armor dummies and see for yourself.
zwei2stein
Laymans terms:
Those "small" armor bonuses are worth it. Hence, you should not underestimate them and use them.
As said, decently speced WY! is 30% damage reduction. Which is awesome.
Those "small" armor bonuses are worth it. Hence, you should not underestimate them and use them.
As said, decently speced WY! is 30% damage reduction. Which is awesome.
makosi
There are limitations though. No amount of armour will reduce the health lost from skills like Energy Burn/Surge, Deep Wound, degenerative conditions and hexes or armour-ignoring damage skills. I think it's overrated but so is health and energy.
Pleikki
Little bonus is important like 8 armor from caster shield. little but important. same with insgihias ofc depends on builds
The Meth
Party-Wide armor buffs rock. Armor buffs you get for free (ie from switching out weapons and insignia's) rock too. On the other hand, single target self buffs (ie 'tank' skills) are not the way to go.
As people are stating, a good tactics rank watch yourself! gives around 30% damage reduction, and can of course be kept up near-infinitely. Compare that to aegis, which gives 50% blocking which has no effect against spells and can be kept up at best 1/3rd of the time. Aegis prevents armor ignoring attack damage though, but considering that aegis is widely considered to be a pretty powerful skill you can see why party wide armor buffs are pretty awesome too.
Now, on the other hand with the nerfs to armor stacking you CAN'T stack armor skills beyond +25. This does not apply to shields or insignia's, just skills. This was done to prevent the old WY! and Stand your Ground! buffs from stacking, which would essentially give your 60 armor casters warrior-class armor. This is also why single large self buffs are less useful, since if you already have +25 armor from a party wide buff and you buff yourself with a +40 self buff, you only actually gained 15 armor because they don't stack together past 25.
As people are stating, a good tactics rank watch yourself! gives around 30% damage reduction, and can of course be kept up near-infinitely. Compare that to aegis, which gives 50% blocking which has no effect against spells and can be kept up at best 1/3rd of the time. Aegis prevents armor ignoring attack damage though, but considering that aegis is widely considered to be a pretty powerful skill you can see why party wide armor buffs are pretty awesome too.
Now, on the other hand with the nerfs to armor stacking you CAN'T stack armor skills beyond +25. This does not apply to shields or insignia's, just skills. This was done to prevent the old WY! and Stand your Ground! buffs from stacking, which would essentially give your 60 armor casters warrior-class armor. This is also why single large self buffs are less useful, since if you already have +25 armor from a party wide buff and you buff yourself with a +40 self buff, you only actually gained 15 armor because they don't stack together past 25.
zwei2stein
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by The Meth
Party-Wide armor buffs rock. Armor buffs you get for free (ie from switching out weapons and insignia's) rock too. On the other hand, single target self buffs (ie 'tank' skills) are not the way to go.
As people are stating, a good tactics rank watch yourself! gives around 30% damage reduction, and can of course be kept up near-infinitely. Compare that to aegis, which gives 50% blocking which has no effect against spells and can be kept up at best 1/3rd of the time. Aegis prevents armor ignoring attack damage though, but considering that aegis is widely considered to be a pretty powerful skill you can see why party wide armor buffs are pretty awesome too. Now, on the other hand with the nerfs to armor stacking you CAN'T stack armor skills beyond +25. This does not apply to shields or insignia's, just skills. This was done to prevent the old WY! and Stand your Ground! buffs from stacking, which would essentially give your 60 armor casters warrior-class armor. This is also why single large self buffs are less useful, since if you already have +25 armor from a party wide buff and you buff yourself with a +40 self buff, you only actually gained 15 armor because they don't stack together past 25. |
Also, aegis can be run on major characters (mindblast eles, all kinds of necromancers.) as 9 spec reaches important breakpoints and is affordable.
Also, while it is true that armor/block does little to stop some damage, it enables monks to deal with that damage more easily. Hences, that WY does help when you are esurged, its just indirect.
sixofone
Can anyone tell me where to find information on how elemental (spell) damage works versus armor?
By that, I read somewhere (but have not been able to confirm) that elemental spells hit the chest area, and that would be the best location for a "vs. elemental damage" insignia.
I'm wondering because of the Warrior insignias, one of which grants +10 vs. elemental damage (Dreadnought) and one whioch grants +20 but has a STR req. (Sentinel's). I found a Sentinel insignia, and wanted to use it on Koss, but wasn't sure where to put it on him if it made a difference.
Thanks!
By that, I read somewhere (but have not been able to confirm) that elemental spells hit the chest area, and that would be the best location for a "vs. elemental damage" insignia.
I'm wondering because of the Warrior insignias, one of which grants +10 vs. elemental damage (Dreadnought) and one whioch grants +20 but has a STR req. (Sentinel's). I found a Sentinel insignia, and wanted to use it on Koss, but wasn't sure where to put it on him if it made a difference.
Thanks!
Pleikki
its kinda same that where you put that ofc i like feet + head most for it :;D
sixofone
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Pleikki
its kinda same that where you put that ofc i like feet + head most for it :;D
|
"A Sentinel's Insignia is a warrior specific upgrade component that provides an armor bonus of extra armor against elemental damage in exchange for having an attribute level of 13 or more in Strength. This bonus is not global and applies only to the armor piece equipped with the insignia." (emphasis mine)
So - the question still remains: how does GW calcualte elemental damage against armor? Does a Firestorm strike all armor equally? Does it simply use the chest armor? What if someone has a "vs. Fire" on one piece, and "vs. Earth" on another, and so on?
Olim Chill
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by The Meth
Party-Wide armor buffs rock. Armor buffs you get for free (ie from switching out weapons and insignia's) rock too.
|
The Meth
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by sixofone
I finally found some information, and I quote:
"A Sentinel's Insignia is a warrior specific upgrade component that provides an armor bonus of extra armor against elemental damage in exchange for having an attribute level of 13 or more in Strength. This bonus is not global and applies only to the armor piece equipped with the insignia." (emphasis mine) So - the question still remains: how does GW calcualte elemental damage against armor? Does a Firestorm strike all armor equally? Does it simply use the chest armor? What if someone has a "vs. Fire" on one piece, and "vs. Earth" on another, and so on? |
So if you had a +10 vs fire on torso, and a +10 vs earth on legs, this is what would happen:
Against all fire attacks you will have a 3/8th's chance to get the +10, and a 5/8th's chance to get +0.
Against all earth attacks you will have a 2/8th's chance to get the +10, and a 6/8th's chance to get +0.
So basically unless you are a gambleing person, just use one type of + armor on the whole set.
The important part is to use things like Stonefist and Lieutenant's insignia ONLY on your hands, feet or head. The reason being that you want to minimize the effect of the loss of armor (or lack of gain in the case of stonefist)
The difference between a stonefist insignia on hands with sentinel's elsewhere and stonefist on torso with sentinel's elsewhere is that with it on hands, you have only a 1/8th chance of not getting your sentinel's bonus, where if it was on your torso you would have a 3/8th's chance of not getting your sentinel's bonus.
BlueNovember
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by The Meth
From what I know, all spells hit different sections of armor using the same rules a sword or an axe would.
|
I believe sixofone is semi-correct. Non-projectile spells hit the chest, and the chest alone. Ie [skill]Rodgort's Invocation[/skill] will always deal less damage to a target that has a +vs elemental chest piece, whereas [skill]Fireball[/skill] will do different damage depending on where it hits.
Firestorm is interesting in that it has a much greater chance of getting headshots, as each mini-fireball is treated somewhat as it's own projectile, and thus will get headshots in the same way arrows fired from heights do.
sixofone
Thanks, Meth! Very informative answer.
That explains why someone had said it was best to put an elemental prot insiginia on the chest! (And I use Stonefist on hands mainly because it made sense - "fist" "hands" - but you gave me a much more logical reason why.)
And this post has helped me understand the importance of shields for spellcasters, too. The armor bonus from those is global!
That explains why someone had said it was best to put an elemental prot insiginia on the chest! (And I use Stonefist on hands mainly because it made sense - "fist" "hands" - but you gave me a much more logical reason why.)
And this post has helped me understand the importance of shields for spellcasters, too. The armor bonus from those is global!
The Meth
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by BlueNovember
Mmm. I'm near-certain that's not true, but can't think of a way to prove it without finding some Rodgort's user in pve / grabbing someone to 1 v 1 in gh :P.
I believe sixofone is semi-correct. Non-projectile spells hit the chest, and the chest alone. Ie [skill]Rodgort's Invocation[/skill] will always deal less damage to a target that has a +vs elemental chest piece, whereas [skill]Fireball[/skill] will do different damage depending on where it hits. Firestorm is interesting in that it has a much greater chance of getting headshots, as each mini-fireball is treated somewhat as it's own projectile, and thus will get headshots in the same way arrows fired from heights do. |
I do believe that bows and spears _might_ hit the head more, but have never seen anyone do an actual test on that. I can say for sure that spells such as firestorm have the normal distribution, the firestorm graphical is just an effect, it doesn't represent how the game handles damage.
I just walked out of D'Alessio seaboard in HM. Immolate and Rodgort's invocation were able to hit my boots, my torso and my hands just fine.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by sixofone
Thanks, Meth! Very informative answer.
That explains why someone had said it was best to put an elemental prot insiginia on the chest! (And I use Stonefist on hands mainly because it made sense - "fist" "hands" - but you gave me a much more logical reason why.) And this post has helped me understand the importance of shields for spellcasters, too. The armor bonus from those is global! |