A Little Cliche I Know, But How's This Build For General PvE?

whufc89

whufc89

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2007

UK

E/

[skill]elemental attunement[/skill][skill]fire attunement[/skill][skill]immolate[/skill][skill]searing heat[/skill][skill]rodgort's invocation[/skill][skill]fireball[/skill][skill]arcane echo[/skill][skill]Sunspear Rebirth Signet[/skill]

Fire Magic - 16 (12+1+3)
Energy Storage - 12

First of all, as you can see it's full of skills from Prophecies (except the res) & even though I own all the campaigns + GW:EN, I seem to be sticking with this build as it hasn't failed me yet.

The thing is, I can't help but think it could be better somehow. Maybe in terms of energy management, damage, team support etc. To be honest, I'm one of those type of people who leave the majority of team support to the heroes/hench & just focus on massive AoE damage with my skillbar.

I have read through the "I am the best nuker build" thread many times & have tried using the advice in it, such as using Mind Blast instead of dual attunements, but it never felt right. I'd lose the majority of my energy after casting rodgort's around 3 times, and then I'd just have to stand there spamming mind blast for ages to get my energy back, only to lose all my energy again after another couple of rodgort's invocations. Running dual attunements let's meet just spam whatever I want to my heart's content, without worrying at all about energy, which is what I like as I like to be able to concentrate on the battle etc.

I've been looking a lot until PvE only skills and was wondering which of them could be useful for my type of play style, causing a lot of AoE damage etc. Even if there's any decent PvE skills you suggest using which don't cause AoE etc, please post them up. I even used "Finish Him" the other day, and found it quite decent but I scrapped it in the end as my team was killing enemies fast enough anyway, so by the time I checked to see if the enemy was below 50% health & then used FINISH HIM, it doesn't really make a difference as the team is already "finishing him" on their own so to speak

I realise that there are monsters out there with enchantment removal skills so a dual attune build may not be the best route to go down but as I said, it's served me well so far with the occasional monster here & there stripping me of my enchants, but if that ever happens I'm not out of the fight completely. I can still cast my low energy costing skills & wait until the enemies die or my dual attunes recharge etc.

Anyway, what do you guys think?

Oh & one more thing, the timing on that build is brilliant. By "timing" I mean, I cast a spell, then cast another, then another & by the time I've casted most of my spells, the first spell would be available to cast again & I can do the cycle all over again. So I'm never just stood there using my staff to attack whilst waiting on my skillbar to recharge, which is one thing that would shy me away from certain builds.

N1ghtstalker

N1ghtstalker

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2007

E/

good damage should work well i think

Div

Div

I like yumy food!

Join Date: Jan 2006

Where I can eat yumy food

Dead Alley [dR]

Mo/R

You'd probably do better with a SF bar if you wanted pure damage like that. Also arcane echo seems a little out of place. The best thing you can echo is rodgorts, and the recharge on that is low enough as is (especially since you can use fireball/immolate in between).

whufc89

whufc89

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2007

UK

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by holymasamune
You'd probably do better with a SF bar if you wanted pure damage like that. Also arcane echo seems a little out of place. The best thing you can echo is rodgorts, and the recharge on that is low enough as is (especially since you can use fireball/immolate in between). Oh, I've been using Arcane Echo primarily to echo Searing Heat

Why do you suggest a SF bar as opposed to a savannah heat or something else? Isn't SF just basically a lower costing, lower recharging rodgort's? Sorry if I'm wrong, I haven't really researched on SF a lot.

BLOODGOAT

BLOODGOAT

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2007

long a

Mo/

E-Management a problem? Replace Searing Heat with Glowing Gaze. Echo spam Rodgort's until you actually need some more energy and just throw in a Glowing Gaze wherever. Hell, heroes can't even use this build incorrectly.

The Meth

The Meth

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

R/

If you do decide to echo rodgorts, load up mindbender (Asuran PvE skill that gives you 50% reduced cast time). Fun
You can also take intensity, with mindbender and intensity you should be able to output enough damage in those 10-12 seconds to level anything.

There aren't many pve skills that do real, direct aoe damage, other then Cry of Pain, which is grossly overpowered if you can get multiple people using it, but for one ele its not worth taking it + trigger hex.

btw you aren't supposed to use mind blast after your whole spell chain, but in between every spell. Its not reliable when your energy is < 40 or so, you should try to keep it > 60 at all times so you can use all your spells. Also, once the enemy group has been basically destroyed (ie only 1 or 2 weak enemies left) there isn't much reason to use nukes unless you are at max energy, otherwise just use mindblast to regain energy for the next battle.

FIG TREE MAN

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2008

i stand up for fig trees everywhere >_<

E/Mo

seems like a super build..no waste time recharging or energy
bloody brilliant harry!

whufc89

whufc89

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2007

UK

E/

OK I'm gonna try out a searing flames build. I found this one on PvXwiki, what do you think of it - http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:E/...s_Elementalist

whufc89

whufc89

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2007

UK

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by FIG TREE MAN
seems like a super build..no waste time recharging or energy
bloody brilliant harry!

12chars.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

Slap a Ward of Melee on that imo, that or Blinding Flash since you're running dual attune.

Gift3d

Gift3d

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Las Vegas

Enraged Whiny Carebears [oR]

W/E

Searing Heat screws up aggro and does minimal damage, i'd go with MS instead.

Echo is great for Rodgort's

And immolate's just really crappy, i'd use incendiary bonds or Liquid Flame.

Also, SF does not compare to dual attunement. Dual attunement = use any spell and have infinite energy. SF = spam for 30-40 seconds and no energy.

Cherng Butter

Cherng Butter

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Maryland

The Mirror Of Reason [SNOW]

E/Mo

It seems like you're waiting till you're under the energy threshold to start casting Mind Blast. Throw it in between Rodgorts and you should be ok (or just carry a high-energy set).

whufc89

whufc89

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2007

UK

E/

Thanks guys

BLOODGOAT

BLOODGOAT

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2007

long a

Mo/

Personally, one of my favorite Proph-only fire magic nukes is casting Meteor Shower, Incendiary Bonds, then Rodgort's Invocation all one after the other. By the time Meteor Shower hits it's first knockdown, Incendiary Bonds will go off and Rodgort's around .5 to 1 second after that for a very nice spike, and with a tighly clumped mob, you can take them all down to ~25% health in just a few seconds. Great for NM. Not sure about HM.

Coloneh

Coloneh

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

D/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by whufc89
I have read through the "I am the best nuker build" thread many times & have tried using the advice in it, such as using Mind Blast instead of dual attunements, but it never felt right. I'd lose the majority of my energy after casting rodgort's around 3 times, and then I'd just have to stand there spamming mind blast for ages to get my energy back, only to lose all my energy again after another couple of rodgort's invocations. ur doin it wrong

spam MB on recharge, spam Rodgot's when MB is recharging. dont wait til you get low energy, it defeats the point.



anyways, if you lack the effort to use MB then this is the next best option, should be fine.

Div

Div

I like yumy food!

Join Date: Jan 2006

Where I can eat yumy food

Dead Alley [dR]

Mo/R

Quote:
Originally Posted by whufc89
Oh, I've been using Arcane Echo primarily to echo Searing Heat
You can bring teinai's heat and save your arcane echo energy

Granted, then it wouldn't be proph-only, but it's definitely superior in every way if you have factions.

Quote:
Why do you suggest a SF bar as opposed to a savannah heat or something else? Isn't SF just basically a lower costing, lower recharging rodgort's? Sorry if I'm wrong, I haven't really researched on SF a lot. SF amounts of bigger damage output afaik compared to this bar simply because it's a lot more spammable. Since the point of this build was to have massive damage output and see big numbers as opposed to having the utility support of Mind Blast, SF would be a nice choice.

Captain Miken

Captain Miken

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by whufc89
Oh, I've been using Arcane Echo primarily to echo Searing Heat

That's silly!

[skill]Teinai's Heat[/skill][skill]Searing Heat[/skill]

whufc89

whufc89

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2007

UK

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by holymasamune
You can bring teinai's heat and save your arcane echo energy

Granted, then it wouldn't be proph-only, but it's definitely superior in every way if you have factions.



SF amounts of bigger damage output afaik compared to this bar simply because it's a lot more spammable. Since the point of this build was to have massive damage output and see big numbers as opposed to having the utility support of Mind Blast, SF would be a nice choice. Nah I don't need it to be Prophecies only, it's just that my current skillbar IS prophecies only, as I'd never bothered using any of the otehr campaign skills.

Good idea on the teinai's heat instead of AE idea, I had forgotten about that skill

Oh and what do you think of using GOEP instead of teinai's simply for the fact that it will boost searing heat AND rodgorts which may be better in the long run than using searing & teinai's.

Yichi

Yichi

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2005

Guild Hall, Vent, Guesting, PvE, or the occasional HA match...

Dark Alley [dR]

Quote:
Originally Posted by whufc89
Nah I don't need it to be Prophecies only, it's just that my current skillbar IS prophecies only, as I'd never bothered using any of the otehr campaign skills.

Good idea on the teinai's heat instead of AE idea, I had forgotten about that skill

Oh and what do you think of using GOEP instead of teinai's simply for the fact that it will boost searing heat AND rodgorts which may be better in the long run than using searing & teinai's. the 4-5 damage it will add wouldn't be as effective as another skill would be.

Jenn

Jenn

Resigned.

Join Date: Sep 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by whufc89
such as using Mind Blast instead of dual attunements, but it never felt right. I'd lose the majority of my energy after casting rodgort's around 3 times, and then I'd just have to stand there spamming mind blast for ages to get my energy back, only to lose all my energy again after another couple of rodgort's invocations. Running dual attunements let's meet just spam whatever I want to my heart's content, without worrying at all about energy, which is what I like as I like to be able to concentrate on the battle etc. Then you're doing it wrong. There's 5 seconds of recharge time where you could be gaining your energy back from rodgorts. I don't know what you're doing in those 5 seconds, but it obviously isn't right. And to be blunt, don't be a numbskull in your casting order. If you cast all your high energy skills before you use mindblast, then of course you're shit out of luck because you've only got 10 energy left. ANY PvE monster will have more energy than that. Don't button mash, and put some common sense into the order in which you cast skills, because that makes a huge difference.

I run something more like this:

[skill]Fire Attunement[/skill][skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Mind Blast[/skill][skill]Rodgort's Invocation[/skill][skill]Glowing Gaze[/skill]

Pick 3 other skills (1 damage, 1 utility, 1 res is a good combo, or 2 damage, 1 res) and you will be able to cast anything to your heart's desire, without energy problem, and maximizing your damage. If you still have energy problems with the four energy enhancers I listed (attunement, glyph, blast, gaze), then you should probably just give up ele and pick up Necromancer, put 16 into soul reaping, and use signets. Energy management is a basic but critical component to this game and there is no reason why Elementalists should have any problem with it given all the skills at their disposal.

Stormlord Alex

Stormlord Alex

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island

Soul of Melandru [sOm]

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by whufc89

The Meth

The Meth

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

R/

I think you can do comparable damage with rodgort's if you echo it and use mindbender like I said up there^

If you want to replace Searing Heat with something, I would say go with Liquid Flame. Its condition is practically always met and it casts nice and quick to make a mini-spike after any salvo you unload.

Echoing RI, you could unleash 2 RI's and 1 Liquid Flame in under 5 seconds, with 2 more RI's every 5 seconds for the duration of the echo. You'll even have a little left over time in between for other stuff.

If things aren't dead by then, you are fighting destroyers and should go bash your head into a wall for using fire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whufc89
Lawl I came up against destroyers for the first time earlier & thought WTF when I was doing around 30 dmg to them with RI. I then read up on them & found out they're highly resistant to fire dmg. I take it this means they're weak to water & neutral to earth so either one of those is better to use against them than fire?
Also, if you guys had the choice, when looking at the skillbar I posted in the first post, instead of Arcane Echo would you use [skill]Teinai's Heat[/skill] (so there'd basically be two searings at work) or [skill]liquid flame[/skill]. The reason I don't like liquid flame though is that fair enough it has quite a low energy cost, but when running dual attune or MB you don't need to worry about the energy so you may aswell just go ahead & spam Rodgorts. LF to me just feels like a toned down version of Rodgorts, along with the longer recharge time I don't particularly like it.
Anyway, your thoughts are appreciated Actually my first time through EotN I had a fire ele hero for the whole thing, didn't know at the time about the fire resistance and I couldn't see the numbers to see they did almost nothing lol.

The problem with Teinai's heat / searing is that, especially in HM, it will cause enemies to scatter. Scattered enemies take less total damage from your Rodgort's. The reason you use liquid flame is because its nice and fast to cast inbetween your rodgort's.

Cast time breakdown (assuming echoed rodgorts)
Rodgorts: 1s + .75s aftercast 1.75s total
Echo Rodgorts: 1s + .75s aftercast 3.5s total
Liquid Flame: .5s + .75s aftercast 4.75s total
Rodgorts is recharged at 5 seconds
Rodgorts: 1s + .75s aftercast 6.75s total
Echo Rodgorts: 1s + .75s aftercast 8.5s total
Fireball: 1s +.75s aftercast 10.25s total
Rodgorts are recharged

IE infinite chain of 120+ damage spells ftw. Whole 10s chain is over 700 damage. Don't even bother adding in intensity, the monsters will just come here and QQ.

EDIT: I quoted a post of you quoteing this post, glad I didn't create some kind of infinite quotation device that would destroy all existence.

whufc89

whufc89

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2007

UK

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Meth
I think you can do comparable damage with rodgort's if you echo it and use mindbender like I said up there^

If you want to replace Searing Heat with something, I would say go with Liquid Flame. Its condition is practically always met and it casts nice and quick to make a mini-spike after any salvo you unload.

Echoing RI, you could unleash 2 RI's and 1 Liquid Flame in under 5 seconds, with 2 more RI's every 5 seconds for the duration of the echo. You'll even have a little left over time in between for other stuff.

If things aren't dead by then, you are fighting destroyers and should go bash your head into a wall for using fire. Lawl I came up against destroyers for the first time earlier & thought WTF when I was doing around 30 dmg to them with RI. I then read up on them & found out they're highly resistant to fire dmg. I take it this means they're weak to water & neutral to earth so either one of those is better to use against them than fire?

Also, if you guys had the choice, when looking at the skillbar I posted in the first post, instead of Arcane Echo would you use [skill]Teinai's Heat[/skill] (so there'd basically be two searings at work) or [skill]liquid flame[/skill]. The reason I don't like liquid flame though is that fair enough it has quite a low energy cost, but when running dual attune or MB you don't need to worry about the energy so you may aswell just go ahead & spam Rodgorts. LF to me just feels like a toned down version of Rodgorts, along with the longer recharge time I don't particularly like it.

Anyway, your thoughts are appreciated

Stormlord Alex

Stormlord Alex

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island

Soul of Melandru [sOm]

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Meth
If things aren't dead by then, you are fighting destroyers and should go bash your head into a wall for using fire. I use Fire against Destroyers.
Mind Blast helps me churn out Dwarf Weapons and Alchemical Acids

whufc89

whufc89

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2007

UK

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
I use Fire against Destroyers.
Mind Blast helps me churn out Dwarf Weapons and Alchemical Acids
Alkar's Alchemical Acid <---- Sounds pretty win! (Just read up on it then)

By Dwarf Weapons do you mean the skill Great Dwarf Weapon?

Jenn

Jenn

Resigned.

Join Date: Sep 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutemow
you don't need glyph or gaze on a mb bar No, you don't...
Just thought I'd toss all those options in there since the original use of mind blast was a problem It's what I run when I ursan (obviously no MB...), so that I can boost my energy back up quickly.

The Meth

The Meth

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

R/

Yes, he meant great dwarf weapon. It is hax when you put it on any kind of attacking character, especially ones with fast attacks or multiple hitting attacks.

Stormlord Alex

Stormlord Alex

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island

Soul of Melandru [sOm]

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by whufc89
By Dwarf Weapons do you mean the skill Great Dwarf Weapon? Yup. Regardless of what element you're using, Destroyers have stupidly high armour, so your Ele will be doing jack-all to them damage-wise (they also tear you apart with physical attacks, making Ele support options a wiser choice instead).

Best way to fight them, I've found, is to tear through them with physicals of your own, backed up by someone buffing said physicals (here, a Mind Blaster with GDW and some Earth wards) and a Curse guy (SS is pretty devestating, mostly though Enfeebling Blood shits on their damage)

whufc89

whufc89

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2007

UK

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
Yup. Regardless of what element you're using, Destroyers have stupidly high armour, so your Ele will be doing jack-all to them damage-wise (they also tear you apart with physical attacks, making Ele support options a wiser choice instead).

Best way to fight them, I've found, is to tear through them with physicals of your own, backed up by someone buffing said physicals (here, a Mind Blaster with GDW and some Earth wards) and a Curse guy (SS is pretty devestating, mostly though Enfeebling Blood shits on their damage) So when fighting destroyers do you advise bringing along a hero Warrior or Hench as opposed to just spellcasters which is what I usually bring.

My normal Hero/Hench setup for fighting just about everything is:

Me - Fire Ele
Norgu - Pure interrupt with Empathy & Backfire
Dunkoro - Healer
Master Of Whispers - Minion Master
Mhenlo - Healer
Lina - Protection Monk
Cynn - Fire Ele
Herta - Earth Ele

I usually don't bother bringing a melee hero or hench as I leave that up to the minions summoned by the MM.

Stormlord Alex

Stormlord Alex

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island

Soul of Melandru [sOm]

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by whufc89
So when fighting destroyers do you advise bringing along a hero Warrior or Hench as opposed to just spellcasters which is what I usually bring. Pretty much.
It's been ages since I last played my ele, especially against Destroyers... IIRC, my teambuild was something like...

Me: Mind Blaster, wards and Dwarf skills
Hero 1 - Spiteful Spirit Necro, Enfeebling Blood somewhere
Hero 2 - Paragon - Cruel Spear as elite, had Anthem of Envy on there too
Hero 3 - second Paragon (Paragons are imba and heroes make good paras) - this guy had some Motivation stuff, Song of Restoration as elite with spear attacks

Then the Hench where Aiden, Mhenlo, Lina and Devona.

whufc89

whufc89

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2007

UK

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
Pretty much.
It's been ages since I last played my ele, especially against Destroyers... IIRC, my teambuild was something like...

Me: Mind Blaster, wards and Dwarf skills
Hero 1 - Spiteful Spirit Necro, Enfeebling Blood somewhere
Hero 2 - Paragon - Cruel Spear as elite, had Anthem of Envy on there too
Hero 3 - second Paragon (Paragons are imba and heroes make good paras) - this guy had some Motivation stuff, Song of Restoration as elite with spear attacks

Then the Hench where Aiden, Mhenlo, Lina and Devona. Is there a hotkey for targeting allies? I know to press C to target the nearest enemy & TAB to cycle through all nearby enemies but I was wondering if there was a hotkey for cycling through allies as it'd make things a whole lot easier when casting things like GREAT DWARF WEAPON on them.

Stormlord Alex

Stormlord Alex

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island

Soul of Melandru [sOm]

W/E

There isn't a hotkey as such, but you can set one yourself on the Control tab of the F11 menu

whufc89

whufc89

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2007

UK

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
There isn't a hotkey as such, but you can set one yourself on the Control tab of the F11 menu Nice, thanks a lot.

Skyros

Skyros

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2007

E/

you could go the physical way or like alex said or if you want to keep using just bring a ranger hero with winter.

and yea if you are fighting destroyers you should always try to fit alchemical acid even at low levels the cracked armor will help lower their ridiculous AL.

EDIT- and honestly... duals heats are not that bad even if they do cause scatter. you can use that scatter to cause the enemies to stop attacking and run around for a bit ( relieving party pressure) and do some damage. I've done a bunch of zones in hm with just a standard pvp mb ele with aegis and the dual heats help alot... the enemies didn't seem to scatter until they got hit by heats at least 2-3 times which is enough.

xDusT II

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Melbourne

I've always just run a b.surge with some PvE skills/Wards if I know I'm going up against Detroyers. It's pretty satisfying getting an AoE Blind from surge when the Destroyers of Hope put Order of Pain up.

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

SF isn't that impressive until you get at least a second guy doing the same thing. Easy with heroes, not so much with full pugs.

angmar_nite

angmar_nite

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2007

[SNOW] of [YUM]

E/

SF is good with mark of rodgort. After the first burning bit, you then trigger burning with each damage hit.

digimonizm

digimonizm

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

Quote:
SF is good with mark of rodgort. After the first burning bit, you then trigger burning with each damage hit. How would you e-manage mark w/o ele attunment though?

RhanoctJocosa

RhanoctJocosa

Legendary Korean

Join Date: Aug 2006

The Benecia Renovatio [RenO]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by digimonizm
How would you e-manage mark w/o ele attunment though? You just don't spam it stupidly?