Wow, this thread ain't dead yet ----> me=surprised
Axe Sin. 'Cute'. Never 'good' though.
As for the Tactics question: I don't think so. Tactics has been nerfed to hell (except for healsig, which you won't need in PvE anyway) so leave it be
hmm how bout a sin axe build?
Bobby2
Unreal Havoc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor
Wuts teh point then?
Why run an Assassin wit an Axe if u can deal WAY moar dmg wit Daggers?
And if u whant to run a Sin wit different wep then run it wit a scythe is the only half viable idea I can think of, but still way too weak and generally inferior to a propper Sin wit daggers.
~Super Igor
~
Warriors in PvE that use Axes can't keep up a constant IAS (without some form of condition), and a constant blocking skill and have less of a chance of achieving a critical hit with an Axe than an Assassin does. The only major advantage a Warrior does have is from the Strength attribute, but I don't think it makes that much difference compared to heightened critical hit chances to be honest. Scythes are ok, but when used with Save Yourselves, they don't build up adrenaline quicker than an Axe does while still supplying AoE, especially when used with Critical Agility as it's pretty much kept up constantly. It isn't that bad a concept if done right, it really just depends on the build used more than anything else.
Why run an Assassin wit an Axe if u can deal WAY moar dmg wit Daggers?
And if u whant to run a Sin wit different wep then run it wit a scythe is the only half viable idea I can think of, but still way too weak and generally inferior to a propper Sin wit daggers.
~Super Igor
afya
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor
Wuts teh point then?
Why run an Assassin wit an Axe if u can deal WAY moar dmg wit Daggers?
And if u whant to run a Sin wit different wep then run it wit a scythe is the only half viable idea I can think of, but still way too weak and generally inferior to a propper Sin wit daggers.
~Super Igor ~
Scythe sin would do better to dagger sin (in PvE at least). With the high critical dmg, you can easily do 100dmg per hit. Assume you attack 3 enemy per hit, you're actually doing 300dmg. Also, because of the inherent AoE of scythe, you basically always full of en, while many of the dagger builds have some sort of low en, thus requires zealous mod. And the fast activating dervish attack skills....you know~
I'm not sure about axe crit sin. Keen chop doesn't impress me. Why use this when you're having 70~100+ crit rate? Cyclone can be used as AoE but I guess the average dmg output would be smaller than scythe. Wild blow & crit chop may be useful in some situation.
Why run an Assassin wit an Axe if u can deal WAY moar dmg wit Daggers?
And if u whant to run a Sin wit different wep then run it wit a scythe is the only half viable idea I can think of, but still way too weak and generally inferior to a propper Sin wit daggers.
~Super Igor
I'm not sure about axe crit sin. Keen chop doesn't impress me. Why use this when you're having 70~100+ crit rate? Cyclone can be used as AoE but I guess the average dmg output would be smaller than scythe. Wild blow & crit chop may be useful in some situation.
Bobby2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc
Scythes are ok, but when used with Save Yourselves, you can't put it on a Sin bar.
Fix'd
/12chars
/12chars
Unreal Havoc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby2
Fix'd
/12chars That too, lol.
/12chars That too, lol.
blockkiller
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Slave
[skill]decapitate[/skill]
Just throwing it in the mix - some interesting things need to be accomplished with this skill.
Crit.Strkes attrib + Zealous axe ftw to negate the energy loss? could work but the difference in damage with [skill]Eviscerate[\skill] is small as u have a large chance to crit so i think [skill]Eviscerate[\skill] is better in this case
Just throwing it in the mix - some interesting things need to be accomplished with this skill.
Crit.Strkes attrib + Zealous axe ftw to negate the energy loss? could work but the difference in damage with [skill]Eviscerate[\skill] is small as u have a large chance to crit so i think [skill]Eviscerate[\skill] is better in this case
blockkiller
axe sins are good:
- they offer great survivability (critical agility, critical defenses, shield,etc.)
- they offer some nice AoE damage
- they offer very good E-manage
(i think) a sin with death blossom is not as good because:
- in a H/H-team the foe u are attacking is sometimes death when u can use death blossom so
- a part of the chain can be interrupted or blocked so u have to restart the chain so u have problems with recharge, energy and the problem from above
- you need allot of attack skills to be effective so less skills for other functions
this problems u don't have with the axe sins, they however have the problem with enchantments being removed, this will lower the damage and survivablitity.
- they offer great survivability (critical agility, critical defenses, shield,etc.)
- they offer some nice AoE damage
- they offer very good E-manage
(i think) a sin with death blossom is not as good because:
- in a H/H-team the foe u are attacking is sometimes death when u can use death blossom so
- a part of the chain can be interrupted or blocked so u have to restart the chain so u have problems with recharge, energy and the problem from above
- you need allot of attack skills to be effective so less skills for other functions
this problems u don't have with the axe sins, they however have the problem with enchantments being removed, this will lower the damage and survivablitity.
Kale Ironfist
Quote:
Originally Posted by blockkiller
axe sins are good:
- they offer great survivability (critical agility, critical defenses, shield,etc.)
- they offer some nice AoE damage
- they offer very good E-manage
(i think) a sin with death blossom is not as good because:
- in a H/H-team the foe u are attacking is sometimes death when u can use death blossom so
- a part of the chain can be interrupted or blocked so u have to restart the chain so u have problems with recharge, energy and the problem from above
- you need allot of attack skills to be effective so less skills for other functions
this problems u don't have with the axe sins, they however have the problem with enchantments being removed, this will lower the damage and survivablitity. Clearly a non-biased comparison between a critical axe assassin and a Moebius Strike+Death Blossom assassin...
- they offer great survivability (critical agility, critical defenses, shield,etc.)
- they offer some nice AoE damage
- they offer very good E-manage
(i think) a sin with death blossom is not as good because:
- in a H/H-team the foe u are attacking is sometimes death when u can use death blossom so
- a part of the chain can be interrupted or blocked so u have to restart the chain so u have problems with recharge, energy and the problem from above
- you need allot of attack skills to be effective so less skills for other functions
this problems u don't have with the axe sins, they however have the problem with enchantments being removed, this will lower the damage and survivablitity. Clearly a non-biased comparison between a critical axe assassin and a Moebius Strike+Death Blossom assassin...
BlackSephir
Quote:
Originally Posted by blockkiller
axe sins are good:
- they offer great survivability (critical agility, critical defenses, shield,etc.)
- they offer some nice AoE damage
- they offer very good E-manage
(i think) a sin with death blossom is not as good because:
- in a H/H-team the foe u are attacking is sometimes death when u can use death blossom so
- a part of the chain can be interrupted or blocked so u have to restart the chain so u have problems with recharge, energy and the problem from above
- you need allot of attack skills to be effective so less skills for other functions
this problems u don't have with the axe sins, they however have the problem with enchantments being removed, this will lower the damage and survivablitity. Damn, you've convinced me. Just don't say that sword sin is better than axe sin or I'll have to switch to swords :<
- they offer great survivability (critical agility, critical defenses, shield,etc.)
- they offer some nice AoE damage
- they offer very good E-manage
(i think) a sin with death blossom is not as good because:
- in a H/H-team the foe u are attacking is sometimes death when u can use death blossom so
- a part of the chain can be interrupted or blocked so u have to restart the chain so u have problems with recharge, energy and the problem from above
- you need allot of attack skills to be effective so less skills for other functions
this problems u don't have with the axe sins, they however have the problem with enchantments being removed, this will lower the damage and survivablitity. Damn, you've convinced me. Just don't say that sword sin is better than axe sin or I'll have to switch to swords :<
Unreal Havoc
Lol, I used to run a Sword Assassin in AB just for a laugh, it was quite amusing fighting other melee actually. 
blockkiller
sword sins aren't good because the crit damage of an axe is higher then a sword, sword would be useless
blockkiller
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kale Ironfist
Clearly a non-biased comparison between a critical axe assassin and a Moebius Strike+Death Blossom assassin...
mayby but most arguements are true, i play mostly pve and in pve you mostly play H/H, you're main damage output is death blossom, but most foes are down when i use it and then i have to restart my chain so
Unreal Havoc
Quote:
Originally Posted by blockkiller
sword sins aren't good because the crit damage of an axe is higher then a sword, sword would be useless
I never said they were good. Amusing was the word I believe came to mind at the time of writing my last post.
Super Igor
Quote:
Originally Posted by afya
Assassin NEVER has energy problems at all, no matter what build he uses, if u do, dont play Assassin.
I dont disagree that Scythesin is a decent-ish, run it if u whant, but it is still no match for a propper Assassin with good old Daggers.
IMO, if u dont fail at playing Assassin u will not consider running a Scyhtesin and understand how inferior it is to a propper Daggersin.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by afya
axe sins are good:
- they offer great survivability (critical agility, critical defenses, shield,etc.) - they offer some nice AoE damage - they offer very good E-manage (i think) a sin with death blossom is not as good because: - in a H/H-team the foe u are attacking is sometimes death when u can use death blossom so - a part of the chain can be interrupted or blocked so u have to restart the chain so u have problems with recharge, energy and the problem from above - you need allot of attack skills to be effective so less skills for other functions this problems u don't have with the axe sins, they however have the problem with enchantments being removed, this will lower the damage and survivablitity. Oh this is so full of fail, the guy clearly never played an Assassin. Just understand that an Axe Sin doesnt have anything that a Daggersin has not and is no match for a Daggersin, simple as that. ~Super Igor Unreal Havoc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor
No, I dont know, I tryed playing an scythesin in PvE one day and one try was enough to traaash the concept big time all together, It is in reality very very bad, yes, u have a chance oh hitting more than one foe but the damage is really low and never reaches more than ~87-105 using an atack skill compared to a Blossom Sin which can hit 120+ damage with one atack alone not counting the mass AoE dmg not just three foes are hit for 80+ damage, we are talking all of them).
Assassin NEVER has energy problems at all, no matter what build he uses, if u do, dont play Assassin. I dont disagree that Scythesin is a decent-ish, run it if u whant, but it is still no match for a propper Assassin with good old Daggers. IMO, if u dont fail at playing Assassin u will not consider running a Scyhtesin and understand how inferior it is to a propper Daggersin. Oh this is so full of fail, the guy clearly never played an Assassin. Just understand that an Axe Sin doesnt have anything that a Daggersin has not and is no match for a Daggersin, simple as that. ~Super Igor Also not taking Moebius Strike does free up your elite slot to take Fox's Promise or something else that may come in handy.
Drakken Breathes Fire
*slaps unreal.*
YOU! STOP THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX! YOU'LL MAKE BOX VERY MAD! lol Seriously, I've seen videos of pretty much every assassin. With practice they work. Like 55s, a kid goes and copies the 55 template, fails at it. Is 55ing crap? Gods no. Kid just has to learn how to use it. If you have arthritis you might be able to screw up Mobeus+Death Blossom. (Otherwise it's really just *near* idiot proof.) If you have troubles c spacing, you might screw up axe sin and scythe sin. If you have no fingers at all, you should stop playing Guild Wars. In closing, this thread is one big example of why guru is so full of 'win' that it hurts. (Runner ups being any number of Chuck Norris references and Ursan threads.) Think outside the BOX people, jesus. Unreal Havoc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakken Breathes Fire
*slaps unreal.*
YOU! STOP THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX! YOU'LL MAKE BOX VERY MAD! lol Sorry, that's just what I do. 
Bobby2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakken Breathes Fire
In closing, this thread is one big example of why guru is so full of 'win' that it hurts.
(Runner ups being any number of Chuck Norris references and Ursan threads.) PvE Axe Sin optimum: Whirlwind Cyclone CritAgility CritDefenses (yes...) Way of the Master Dismember (yes...) {E} Triple Chop (..? pick another. what's it matter anyway) Sunspear Rez Sig (or maybe Way of Perfection if you're selfish) Moebius Blossom: just take Golden Fox Strike-Wild Strike instead of Golden Phoenix - presto! MS-DB is superior again YAAAAAAAY. Super Igor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc
Also not taking Moebius Strike does free up your elite slot to take Fox's Promise or something else that may come in handy. Besides why drop MS for some bad Derv scythe elite? U just presented MS like a bad Elite, and its not, it deals HUGE dmg it makes u use atack skills indefinetely, so it generally rocks, and no matter what elite u have on a Scythesin, it will still be dealing much less dmg. And now! try achieving the same effect as my fovorite Shattersin wit a Scyhte (and any other <insert your weapon here>sin! >=] Nah, its not thinking outside the box and similar crazy stuff, its all about what works best. And if we are still talking boxes then <IYWH>sins ARE NOT OUTSIDE THE BOX, no way they are that, dunno why everybody just insert their weapon into the template and call that original and outside the box, its not that. ~Super Igor blockkiller
mayby critical eye?
Kale Ironfist
Quote:
Originally Posted by blockkiller
mayby but most arguements are true, i play mostly pve and in pve you mostly play H/H, you're main damage output is death blossom, but most foes are down when i use it and then i have to restart my chain so
Your comparison introduces a fallacy, that the dagger assassin cannot take advantage of the pros that your critical axe does. It can.
Then you input cons which have no meaning. Too many attack skills? You're using 2 skills, plus the leadups (either 1 or 2). The critical axe uses at least 3. Even if you go berserk and decide that you're going to be using Golden Fox and Wild as your leadups, and Critical Strike for energy management, you still have 3 skills as utility, and Crit Defenses+Agility is only 2. That leaves one skill left, and that's only if you go on a skill binge. Inability to continue the combo? Restarting is only 4s away, 8 if you use Golden Phoenix. Compare to the critical axe which is 4, 10 or 6A. Survivability? What the heck is a shield going to do? The two enchantments you're taking is everything you need, if you're dying because they're removed, you shouldn't still be in the thick of a melee, you should be kiting away. And here's the kicker: MS+DB still does more damage than the critical axe will ever do. afya
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor
No, I dont know, I tryed playing an scythesin in PvE one day and one try was enough to traaash the concept big time all together, It is in reality very very bad, yes, u have a chance oh hitting more than one foe but the damage is really low and never reaches more than ~87-105 using an atack skill compared to a Blossom Sin which can hit 120+ damage with one atack alone not counting the mass AoE dmg not just three foes are hit for 80+ damage, we are talking all of them).
Assassin NEVER has energy problems at all, no matter what build he uses, if u do, dont play Assassin. I dont disagree that Scythesin is a decent-ish, run it if u whant, but it is still no match for a propper Assassin with good old Daggers. IMO, if u dont fail at playing Assassin u will not consider running a Scyhtesin and understand how inferior it is to a propper Daggersin. Oh this is so full of fail, the guy clearly never played an Assassin. Just understand that an Axe Sin doesnt have anything that a Daggersin has not and is no match for a Daggersin, simple as that. ~Super Igor For the scythesin I used 12scythe ,13 critical and r5 luxon. For the daggersin I used icy with 8 in water magic(give more dmg) ,14 dagger and 11 critical. scythesin do 88 and 142 with the two attack skills. (elite I used the Way not Reaper  )daggersin do 81+68=149 with blossom. (elite I used locus coz the speeeeed looks cool~XD) yes, dagger gives some decent dmgs as well. But consider the scythesin can do critical hit almost every attack not just attack skills, plain attacks from scythesin would do more than daggersin. I would say both type of build would have its own limitation. blossom aoe vs 3 foe, plain dmg as mentioned, attack chain...etc... For the energy problem, may be I really not good at sin, but sometimes I really need to switch to my zealous dagger or bring some e-gain attack skill/critical eye.  PS. Please know that the second post isn't mine. Unreal Havoc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor
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Quote: Besides why drop MS for some bad Derv scythe elite? U just presented MS like a bad Elite, and its not, it deals HUGE dmg it makes u use atack skills indefinetely, so it generally rocks, and no matter what elite u have on a Scythesin, it will still be dealing much less dmg. And now! try achieving the same effect as my fovorite Shattersin wit a Scyhte (and any other <insert your weapon here>sin! >=]
Well my part in this debate is more towards other weapons in general not just one fixed weapon but the reason is simple. Blocking. Dropping Moebius Strike allows you to use Foxs Promise and then take a high damage weapon like an Axe or Scythe that can deal good AoE damage in skills still in areas faced with extreme amounts of blocking. (Raptors come to mind here, just one example). Sure you could run Shattering Assault but then you lose the AoE and most definitely lose a hell of a lot of damage.
Quote:
It was actually a joke. :/|
Nah, its not thinking outside the box and similar crazy stuff, its all about what works best. And if we are still talking boxes then <IYWH>sins ARE NOT OUTSIDE THE BOX, no way they are that, dunno why everybody just insert their weapon into the template and call that original and outside the box, its not that. ~Super Igor Thinking outside of the box wins. Super Igor
Thirst of all Insidious Parasite on Assassin primary is bad, if I will be running from u there would be no ossible chance u could keep up with the enrgy cost of mantaining it on me.
Thats not the point tho. I Understand that u are always concerned about blocking enchantements and such things, but Fox's Promise with another weapon will still be extremely inferior damage-wise to the exact same FP build that uses daggers, u still wont be able to do more damage than the Dagger FP does, and then goes the killer of all the <IYWH>FPsin it is... THE SHATTERSIN!... the build which atacks not only vant be blocked but also destroy all of the enemyes defences wilst still dealing HUGE damages, there is no way u can beat it with any <IYWH>sin. The last point is very stupid Thinking Outside The Box thing, trust me, there is no such thing in reality only the saying itself, and I have never seen it being used by anyone exept noobs that fail miserebly and call it exactly that, that they are thinking outside the box, and every good and succesful player is actually a cheater who cant run anything else but his cookie cutter. So the point with why every skilled Assassin in the game knows that <IYWH>sin is crap and is generaly much more inneffective than a dagger sin is not that they are stomps who dont have the godly ability to "Think Outside The Box" but its the matter of whatworks best, and dagger sin DOES work best and all the rest <IYWH> crap is inferior. YET, this doesnt mean they cant adapt to different enviroments and always run their ever-same boring cookie cutter, no, it doesnt mean that, they like any other expirirenced player know what they are doing, they know which of their build would work best in which place, its only that they use the things that WORK. So what is the conclusion? The conclusion is that running some non working noobie crap covered by the "Outside The Box" sign doesnt win the game!!! Flexibility, knowledge game and of what does work is what makes the win! ~Super Igor
Drakken Breathes Fire
Thank you for masturbating all over this thread.
Tyla
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor
I dont disagree that Scythesin is a decent-ish, run it if u whant, but it is still no match for a propper Assassin with good old Daggers.
IMO, if u dont fail at playing Assassin u will not consider running a Scyhtesin and understand how inferior it is to a propper Daggersin. Wrong. Daggers are only good for A: Instagib or B: Moebius. Scythes can spike better and pressure better, with or without monks on a combo which takes around 2 seconds to complete. Tell me how Scythesins are inferior. Critical Scythe damage = you go boom. Dagger pressure = ohai i d-shot ur main atk... Super Igor
Doooood its not the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing PvP, its PvE.
Also, stop saying that oh u gunna D-Shotted crap, Scyhtesins can be D-Shotted twice as good. Daggers are superior to scythes on an Assassin, u dont know that, u fail. Lets say u atack a mob, well, u hit some 3 monsters with it for no more than 80 dmg... not much rly and ur useless to ur team. Then lets immagine u hit every signle montser in the mob with Blossom for 90+dmg and 140+ damage on-target every second... and u can use SY! frequently helping ur team in that way, good huh? yes, its is good. ~Super Igor Tyla
I'm talking about PvE aswell.
And some enemies in PvE have D-Shot last time I checked. Scythesins can't be d-shotted to uselessness as easily, because they still carry pressure without any enchantments or attack skills. Tell me how Daggersins are any better? Oh yeah, let's imagine you get a friendly Ritualist secondary or primary to throw some Splinter Weapon on you for epic boom bigger than Moebius Blossom due to scythe's AoE range. Super Igor
If Scythesin's atacks get D-Shotted (D-Shot in HM 5 sec rechrge minimum) hes a dead meat not to tell u about those tasty long-casting enchs Scythesins rely on, and enchs are a good point, Scythesins rely COMPLITELY on them to be effective, and most mobs have necroses with ench removal.
Daggersin doesnt rely on enchs to be deadly which makes him much more versetile, wilst Daggersins can help the whole team to stay alive with SY! And are vertually Invincible due to Dash which Scythesins dont have a place for, lol. As for the splinter then lol, if u know microing then try dropping SW on urself while starting MS followed up by DB at which point u throw AR on u, now THATS a bomb. There is no point trying to disprove that Daggersins are MUCH better then the <IYWH>sin crap. ~Super Igor Unreal Havoc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor
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Quote:
Quote: The last point is very stupid Thinking Outside The Box thing, trust me, there is no such thing in reality only the saying itself, and I have never seen it being used by anyone exept noobs that fail miserebly and call it exactly that, that they are thinking outside the box, and every good and succesful player is actually a cheater who cant run anything else but his cookie cutter. Having so far obtained Legendary Survivor and Protector of Cantha with my Assassin, only running MS/DB once (against Shiro) I can safely say that you are sorely mistaken, and you of all people having done some of it with me should already know that. You don't need to go MS/DB to be effective in your party, or even wield daggers to. I can do high amounts of spammable AoE critical hit damage with a Bow and spread bleeding at the same time, while staying at a safer distance. That is just an example of versatility more than effectiveness, but you should get my point.
Quote:
...What? I was responding to Unreal's posts...|
So the point with why every skilled Assassin in the game knows that <IYWH>sin is crap and is generaly much more inneffective than a dagger sin is not that they are stomps who dont have the godly ability to "Think Outside The Box" but its the matter of whatworks best, and dagger sin DOES work best and all the rest <IYWH> crap is inferior.
Wrong. Different builds have different purposes and not every build requires Daggers to fulfill that purpose. Example: Disrupting Accuracy Assassins do very well against Glint, but a MS/DB Assassin would probably not fair so well. Barrage/Pet in TOPK is generally more effective than running a MS/DB Assassin. Getting the bigger picture yet? Different areas require differnet methods and builds for a parties effectiveness. MS/DB doesn't always supply that effectiveness and requires versatility on the part of the individual to come up with something suitable for the area before him. Quote:
By the way -- you NEED more skillslots on a Daggersin for the combo -- Dash can be put in simply. P.S: 'Sins are a 1-dimensional class. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Lmao. IAS attacks say hi. And you're hitting 90~ damage freely on enemies (without the attack skills), as practically free pressure. With attack skills you're doing some huge damage. With Splinter Weapon, you hit 3 enemies in a row, and deal much, much more AoE damage.
Quote: Now if u read carefully everythig I have written in trhis thread so far then u will discover I have never even touched the bowsin, u kno why? Because they are in reality very great builds to play with, and in some places were going hacking stuff in meelee is counter productive the just own (like snowman's layer), these builds also mke u stay out of harm, and make the escape less risky then using Dash. |
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So bow sins are good and I sometimes use the build for myself as well, and dont put them in line with other <IYWH>sins, bow sins have a purpose, bow sins work.
Anything works in PvE. Quote:
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