Skills and Updates

Vallisahllirium

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2007

A/W

09 Mar 2008 at 16:37 - 1

Herez the thing...
I will talk about sins cause I play only sin. Last few updates whenever they update skills, they make sin skills weaker. There probably is reason for that, but can they at least fix some skills that are totally useless-example:

wild strike-->energy 5, recharge 4 sec-cant be blocked,removes stances (offhand)
fox fangs-->energy 5, casting time1/2, recharge 8sec, cant be blocked (offhand)

so probably 98% piplz will use wild strike, this is only one example...u can post others...point is-gw has really a lot of skill, but there is a lot skills that should be fixed, and every update sin skills are going down...as it started necros will soon have all skills for free and without recharge time

Lord Sojar

The Fallen One

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oblivion

Irrelevant

Mo/Me

09 Mar 2008 at 16:55 - 2

WILD STRIKE 5, X, 4
Off-Hand Attack. Must follow a lead attack. If it hits, this attack strikes for +10...30...35 damage and any Stance being used by target foe ends. This attack cannot be blocked.

FOX FANGS 5, 1/2, 8
Off-Hand Attack. Must follow a lead attack. Fox Fangs cannot be blocked and strikes for +5...25...30 damage if it hits.

Both skills serve their purpose. While you may see 1 energy skills as a bad update, it wasn't. The health sacrifice is cost enough. 1 Energy is just a mechanic for the game, just in case someone just happened to have mindwrack on them from an edenial mesmer, it would still have a chance to trigger. They don't break the game.

Fox Fangs purpose is a very very fast offhand. Albeit, wildstrike may be better in many builds, there are some that it isn't. Any build that uses Blades of Steel may be better off with Fox Fangs, due to the lengthier recharge, allowing more flexibility in that combination.

The idea is, however, that if all 1200+ skills were 100% viable, the game would be, quite literally, unplayable. No one would know what they might even be countering. There would be no "meta". You would go into GvG blind. You wouldn't know if your opponent was running hexes, conditions, a spike, a VoD turtle build, a this, a that. There would be so many possible builds and combinations, that it would cause total chaos.

So in that regard, be happy some skills are just niche, and be happy some are just so crappy they are unusable. But when trying to show unusable skills, make sure they are truly unusable.

[wiki]Withdraw Hexes[/wiki]

Nevin

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2005

09 Mar 2008 at 17:01 - 3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

[wiki]Withdraw Hexes[/wiki] Are you saying a perfectly balanced GW is a bad thing? I think not. I think that it would be the perfect outlet for any gamer to truly play how they wish to play, If I enjoy using skill X because of its mechanics, then I should be able to use it with out fear of another skill overshadowing it.

Skyy High

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2006

09 Mar 2008 at 17:08 - 4

Then again, if you like a skill because of its "mechanics", you shouldn't feel bad about using a different skill that does said "mechanic", but better.

Oh, and sins have been buffed ridiculously in the past year, only recently have they been getting toned down again, because they're just wtf-ridiculous. If you're a PvE-only player, don't fret; the best PvE sin skills are pretty crappy in PvP, so they're likely to go untouched.

Lord Sojar

The Fallen One

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oblivion

Irrelevant

Mo/Me

09 Mar 2008 at 17:18 - 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

Are you saying a perfectly balanced GW is a bad thing? I think not. I think that it would be the perfect outlet for any gamer to truly play how they wish to play, If I enjoy using skill X because of its mechanics, then I should be able to use it with out fear of another skill overshadowing it. A perfect balanced Guild Wars is impossible. Period.

Ekelon

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

Rebel Rising [rawr]

A/W

09 Mar 2008 at 17:22 - 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

The idea is, however, that if all 1200+ skills were 100% viable, the game would be, quite literally, unplayable. No one would know what they might even be countering. There would be no "meta". You would go into GvG blind. You wouldn't know if your opponent was running hexes, conditions, a spike, a VoD turtle build, a this, a that. There would be so many possible builds and combinations, that it would cause total chaos.

So in that regard, be happy some skills are just niche, and be happy some are just so crappy they are unusable. But when trying to show unusable skills, make sure they are truly unusable.

Dude. If that were true, everyone would quit WoW and come play GW because it's so good.

Hikan Trilear

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2007

09 Mar 2008 at 17:36 - 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekelon

Dude. If that were true, everyone would quit WoW and come play GW because it's so good. I'd have to disagree. I think the reason WoW players don't play guildwars is the level cap. I've seen WoW players complain about the level cap a lot, but I've never once seen them complain about "balance issues"...

In fact I believe the reason guildwars is disliked by WoW players is because of the balance. They want to train their character into a powerhouse, which you can't really do in guildwars.

Fuga

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2008

09 Mar 2008 at 17:48 - 8

Hikan Trilear

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2007

09 Mar 2008 at 21:41 - 9

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuga

What. the. RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO?
You're saying noone whines in WoW about balance?

.. just.. ugh..
These are the threads i found in 1 min:
Nerf Druids 6 [Page: 1 . 2]
Does any of you successfuly solo Warriors? [Page: 1 . 2]
Shadow priest = hey ! im free kill ! [Page: 1 . 2 . 3]
I almost killed a rogue!!! [Page: 1 . 2 . 3 . 4]
How to kill hunters?
Are hunters taking over WoW? [Page: 1 . 2]
Nerfed Again [Page: 1 . 2] Evolyn 27 1421 by Valthas
Rogues and warriors dominate bgs? [Page: 1 . 2] No, that's not at all what I was saying.

I was saying WoW players don't complain about balance in guildwars, they complain about the level cap. What I'm saying is that if they cared more about balance than leveling they would have come over to GW already.

garethporlest18

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

[HiDe]

09 Mar 2008 at 21:53 - 10

Chaos would make things fun Rhaja cause no one would be winning PvP constantly and that's good for people who suck. Winners should be losers 90% of the time to appreciate their winnings.

aapo

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

09 Mar 2008 at 22:25 - 11

Soldier's Strike (5 energy, 4 recharge) (Strength)
Melee Attack. If this attack hits, you deal +10...34 damage. If you are under the effects of a Chant or Shout, this attack cannot be "blocked".

Thrill of Victory (5 energy, 8 recharge) (Strength)
Melee Attack. If this blow hits, and you have more Health than target foe you strike for +15...39 damage.

Power creep much?

Alex the Great

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2007

America.....got a problem with that?

[Lite]

W/

09 Mar 2008 at 23:09 - 12

wild strike is fine as is, so is fox fangs

this is pointless

RavagerOfDreams

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2007

somewhere over the rainbow....

A/

09 Mar 2008 at 23:44 - 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex the Great
wild strike is fine as is, so is fox fangs

this is pointless /agree

<12>

Div

I like yumy food!

Join Date: Jan 2006

Where I can eat yumy food

Dead Alley [dR]

Mo/R

10 Mar 2008 at 01:05 - 14

The OP falls into the category of one of those myopic people who don't understand skill balances. Reading here would help:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10263743

And actually I think fox fangs gets used a lot more than wild strike in PvP.

RavagerOfDreams

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2007

somewhere over the rainbow....

A/

10 Mar 2008 at 03:17 - 15

Quote:
Originally Posted by holymasamune
And actually I think fox fangs gets used a lot more than wild strike in PvP. he's right

people use it to get a bigger bonus on blades of steel as if you used wild strike it would be recharged before you could use blades

Bobby2

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2007

Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards

[MaSS]

W/E

10 Mar 2008 at 05:09 - 16

Quote:
Originally Posted by holymasamune
And actually I think fox fangs gets used a lot more than wild strike in PvP. Why? I'd agree the .5 second matters, but so does Wild's higher bonus damage. The BoS boost seems irrelevant since few people are actually running it.

Vallisahllirium

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2007

A/W

10 Mar 2008 at 09:47 - 17

piplz wild strike is, as I said, just one example...point is in fixing skills that piplz dont use cause they are more or less useless...chaos in game is gd, much more fun when u dont know what will piplz use, this way u know what skills are gd, and they are used almost always...btw if u use speed buff skill for spiking(tiger stance, boa etc etc) u can do 5 skill chain combo with blades of steel doing full dmg...in my case golden lotus, golden fang, horns of the ox, falling spider, blades of steel...with tiger stance this build works perfect for ab, and blades of steel are doing full dmg

Bobby2

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2007

Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards

[MaSS]

W/E

10 Mar 2008 at 14:03 - 18

Look, the game will never have total balance and imho that's a good thing, so there's the answer to your initial post. Might as well turn this into a Fox vs Wild discussion.

Sir Pandra Pierva

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Sardelec yelling at Tenshi

Angels Of Strife

E/

10 Mar 2008 at 20:23 - 19

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby2

Look, the game will never have total balance and imho that's a good thing, so there's the answer to your initial post. Might as well turn this into a Fox vs Wild discussion. wait it wasn't already

DDL

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2007

11 Mar 2008 at 20:54 - 20

Can I just check: what exactly defines the attack speed of wild strike, then?

Since it has (as far as I can see) no activation time at all, suggesting it activates instantly (like stances?), surely it's better in that respect than fox fangs, which takes half a second.

Or is it "wild strike, and all dagger attacks with no activation time, when activated, act on your next 'autoattack' timed dagger attack, which generally is slightly slower than half a second"? In which case FF would have the advantage, I guess.

I'd test it myself, but I'm not sure I'm twitchy enough to honestly spot a difference, so I figured I'd ask you clever peeps.

Sir Pandra Pierva

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Sardelec yelling at Tenshi

Angels Of Strife

E/

11 Mar 2008 at 21:50 - 21

activation times on weapon skills is to show how they change from normal attack if it has none then it activates like a normal attack

Kale Ironfist

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

Australia

Venatio Illuminata [VEIL]

W/

11 Mar 2008 at 22:10 - 22

Quote:
Originally Posted by DDL
Can I just check: what exactly defines the attack speed of wild strike, then?

Since it has (as far as I can see) no activation time at all, suggesting it activates instantly (like stances?), surely it's better in that respect than fox fangs, which takes half a second.

Or is it "wild strike, and all dagger attacks with no activation time, when activated, act on your next 'autoattack' timed dagger attack, which generally is slightly slower than half a second"? In which case FF would have the advantage, I guess.

I'd test it myself, but I'm not sure I'm twitchy enough to honestly spot a difference, so I figured I'd ask you clever peeps. Dagger auto attack is 1.33 seconds between attacks, so using Fox Fangs in place of Wild Strike puts you ahead by .83 seconds. Assuming you're using 33% IAS, it will instead put you ahead by .55 seconds.

Bobby2

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2007

Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards

[MaSS]

W/E

11 Mar 2008 at 23:26 - 23

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kale Ironfist
Dagger auto attack is 1.33 seconds between attacks, so using Fox Fangs in place of Wild Strike puts you ahead by .83 seconds. Assuming you're using 33% IAS, it will instead put you ahead by .55 seconds. This.

but Wild has:
- higher damage.
- faster recharge.
- Stance ending (paving the way for your Dual, which FF doesn't).

I could also happily make a comparison between Jungle Strike and FF... Foxy just doesn't cut it for me at any level.

Celeborn10

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2006

In my lair...

R/Mo

12 Mar 2008 at 01:43 - 24

Quote:
- Stance ending (paving the way for your Dual, which FF doesn't). FF is meant to be followed by 9 Tailed Strike. The whole chain would therefore be GPS>FF>9TS>Impale. I've tried various ways to make it work, but without Conjures the damage ends up being rather gimpy at ~360. Either a recharge or a damage buff (making the chain around 400-430 including Impale) would make the chain actually useful.

FF by itself only has the .5 second activation time which might be attractive to some gimmick builds but they'd probably be much better off with LMS/BMS>Jungle Strike then. The Fox attacks don't really synergize too well with attacks outside of the line as you either have rigor mortis or expose defenses to get them through.

RavagerOfDreams

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2007

somewhere over the rainbow....

A/

12 Mar 2008 at 02:17 - 25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby2
This.

but Wild has:
- higher damage.
- faster recharge.
- Stance ending (paving the way for your Dual, which FF doesn't). fox is used for mainly for two reasons

1) its faster allowing for quicker spiking
2) it has a longer recharge creating a bigger bonus on BoS

Bobby2

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2007

Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards

[MaSS]

W/E

12 Mar 2008 at 04:56 - 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeborn10
FF is meant to be followed by 9 Tailed Strike. The whole chain would therefore be GPS>FF>9TS>Impale.
'Meant to be'? And I think you mean Golden FOX Strike.

Quote: Originally Posted by Celeborn10 I've tried various ways to make it work, but without Conjures the damage ends up being rather gimpy at ~360. Either a recharge or a damage buff (making the chain around 400-430 including Impale) would make the chain actually useful. Impale got nerfed to the extent that any speed advantage offered by Fox Fangs gets annihilated. Still, there's nothing you've mentioned that couldn't have been accomplished by Wild.

Quote: Originally Posted by Celeborn10
FF by itself only has the .5 second activation time which might be attractive to some gimmick builds but they'd probably be much better off with LMS/BMS>Jungle Strike then. The Fox attacks don't really synergize too well with attacks outside of the line as you either have rigor mortis or expose defenses to get them through. Truth. Too many (good) builds I've seen go Rigor-BMT-Jungle...

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavagerOfDreams
fox is used for mainly for two reasons

1) its faster allowing for quicker spiking
2) it has a longer recharge creating a bigger bonus on BoS 1) lower damage compared to Wild counteracts this very purpose.
2) who uses BoS these days?

ensoriki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Canada bro.

A/D

15 Mar 2008 at 12:56 - 27

Fox Fangs is inferior, now move on.

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