why is it that poeple are always raveing about -5 dmg / 20% shields?
wouldn't a -2/ whatever be better?
personally i'd think that -2 all the time would be better then -5 only 20% of the time.
am I missing something here that every one knows that i'm unaware of?
-5 vs. -2 shields
michaelhunter81
Bohya
-2 is conditional
5/20 is uncondititinal
5/20 is uncondititinal
Frank Dudenstein
All of the -2 are conditional ... and for many build the condition is not always guaranteed to be there ... in fact the condition is often not there when you need it most .. for example:
1. Casters are most vulnerable when you defensive enchants get stripped ... which is exactly when you need the the -2 while enchanted most
2. Warriors/Rangers are most vulnerable when your defensive stance runs out... which is exactly when you need the the -2 while stanced most
etc.
1. Casters are most vulnerable when you defensive enchants get stripped ... which is exactly when you need the the -2 while enchanted most
2. Warriors/Rangers are most vulnerable when your defensive stance runs out... which is exactly when you need the the -2 while stanced most
etc.
Rushin Roulette
Yup, a -2 while stanced or Enchanted is better under normal circumstances.
However, those conditions can be stripped and you wont have any minus mods active. Thats when the random -5 mod is better.
I personally run -3 damage and +60HP while hexed on my shields (maybe -2/+45^enchanted if we have a bonder monk), as thats the time when you actually could use a good HP boost and preasure relief for the monks.
However, those conditions can be stripped and you wont have any minus mods active. Thats when the random -5 mod is better.
I personally run -3 damage and +60HP while hexed on my shields (maybe -2/+45^enchanted if we have a bonder monk), as thats the time when you actually could use a good HP boost and preasure relief for the monks.
papryk
20% chance isn't a "condition"?
michaelhunter81
so basically its better to have the -5 once outa every 5 hits then getting let down because your "conditional" -2 left ya
KamikazeChicken
You're always better off using +armor shields.
pkodyssey
I second the "+ while hexed" and any other bad stuff that can happen.
That is usually when pressure is starting to mount on your monk and the extra buff at just that moment gives the monk that extra second to react/save your a..
That is usually when pressure is starting to mount on your monk and the extra buff at just that moment gives the monk that extra second to react/save your a..
C2K
Quote:
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Originally Posted by KamikazeChicken
You're always better off using +armor shields.
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MagmaRed
For PvE, a stance/enchantment shield is better, as long as you have the ability to use those skills. Consider it, with rough numbers.
-2/stance (and using a stance essentially 100% of the time)
You get hit 100 times, you take -200 damage.
-5/20% (and assuming the 20% works exactly 20%)
You get hit 100 times (damage reduction accurs 20 times), you take -100 damage.
So in a perfect scenario (stance/enchant, etc. are all guaranteed) you take half as much damage with a -2 shield than with a -5 shield.
Now, a Paragon has no stances, and neither do most casters. So unless you are using a stance skill of some kind, or working with an enchantment based build/team, you would do better with a -5/20%
As mentioned, if you do something with a Bonder, then the -2/enchant is the best option.
PvP, however, will see most people using multiple shields with multiple mods, and switching based on your enemy.
-2/stance (and using a stance essentially 100% of the time)
You get hit 100 times, you take -200 damage.
-5/20% (and assuming the 20% works exactly 20%)
You get hit 100 times (damage reduction accurs 20 times), you take -100 damage.
So in a perfect scenario (stance/enchant, etc. are all guaranteed) you take half as much damage with a -2 shield than with a -5 shield.
Now, a Paragon has no stances, and neither do most casters. So unless you are using a stance skill of some kind, or working with an enchantment based build/team, you would do better with a -5/20%
As mentioned, if you do something with a Bonder, then the -2/enchant is the best option.
PvP, however, will see most people using multiple shields with multiple mods, and switching based on your enemy.
Pyro maniac
-5/20% is just plain bad
isildorbiafra
Get the point. GW is not about bad and good. Its about rare! -5 20% is rarer and thus exclusie and more disirable. Its all about the epeen and the money!
kobey
If you are talking about warriors: -2 while in stance > -5(20%) .. How often do enemies use wild blow or wild strike to remove your Flail?
If you are talking about Paragons: +armor vs Fire (most common elemental dmg) or reduce blind mod (stacks nicely with clarity rune for a -38% blind duration)
Casters: -2 Enchant or +armor vs slashing or whatever is required for the area
If you are talking about Paragons: +armor vs Fire (most common elemental dmg) or reduce blind mod (stacks nicely with clarity rune for a -38% blind duration)
Casters: -2 Enchant or +armor vs slashing or whatever is required for the area
Longasc
-5/20 is unconditional and statistically gives you -1 damage in the long run.
But shields nowadays only reduce physical damage. There was a time when -2 enchanted / -2 in stance shields gave people -4 damage overall, which really rocked for farming.
I suggest you get a collection of
+10 vs DAMAGE
shields.
Why?
If you know you are going to fight ice imps and ice golems, take a +10 vs cold shield! Especially in hard mode +10 armor translates into so much more damage absorbed than -2 physical damage only. Plus, this works also vs elemental damage, which warriors are more vulnerable to than physical damage anyways.
I have 14 Shields of the Wing, 7 Strength, 7 Tactics.
+10 vs piercing, slashing, blunt
+10 vs fire, ice, lightning, earth
(take 3-4 with you, store the other 10 on your ranger/dervish/assassin heroes!)
Just check the Wiki or remember what foes you were facing, and then you can make a choice which 2-3 shields to take with you in a dungeon.
@Kobey: I thought the same about Slashing being the most common damage type. But actually I have now come to the conclusion that I more often take the shields vs ICE, EARTH and PIERCING damage.
But shields nowadays only reduce physical damage. There was a time when -2 enchanted / -2 in stance shields gave people -4 damage overall, which really rocked for farming.
I suggest you get a collection of
+10 vs DAMAGE
shields.
Why?
If you know you are going to fight ice imps and ice golems, take a +10 vs cold shield! Especially in hard mode +10 armor translates into so much more damage absorbed than -2 physical damage only. Plus, this works also vs elemental damage, which warriors are more vulnerable to than physical damage anyways.
I have 14 Shields of the Wing, 7 Strength, 7 Tactics.
+10 vs piercing, slashing, blunt
+10 vs fire, ice, lightning, earth
(take 3-4 with you, store the other 10 on your ranger/dervish/assassin heroes!)
Just check the Wiki or remember what foes you were facing, and then you can make a choice which 2-3 shields to take with you in a dungeon.
@Kobey: I thought the same about Slashing being the most common damage type. But actually I have now come to the conclusion that I more often take the shields vs ICE, EARTH and PIERCING damage.
isamu kurosawa
Quote:
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Originally Posted by KamikazeChicken
You're always better off using +armor shields.
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I run a 30hp & +al vs blunt, slashing, piercing, fire, cold, lightning, earth. And a 60/3hexed shield as backup.
Zamochit
In order of effectiveness.
+10 vs Species type
+10 vs Damage type
-3 Hexed (if condition is fullfilled)
-2 Stance/Enchant (if condition is fullfilled)
-5 (20%)
I am not considering the condition reduction sheilds although they become invaluable in certain situations, most notably blind reduction as Kobey mentioned, and cripple reduction, when used in conjunction with the appropriate stackable reduction from runes. These really come into play in certain areas (most notably pvp) {38% cripple reduction on burning isle = gg}
People often forget the +10 armour vs species types when mentioning shields, but they are the ultimate damage mitigation if you know your enemy; and make shield swapping unneccesary in areas like DoA or sorrows furnace.
+10 vs Species type
+10 vs Damage type
-3 Hexed (if condition is fullfilled)
-2 Stance/Enchant (if condition is fullfilled)
-5 (20%)
I am not considering the condition reduction sheilds although they become invaluable in certain situations, most notably blind reduction as Kobey mentioned, and cripple reduction, when used in conjunction with the appropriate stackable reduction from runes. These really come into play in certain areas (most notably pvp) {38% cripple reduction on burning isle = gg}
People often forget the +10 armour vs species types when mentioning shields, but they are the ultimate damage mitigation if you know your enemy; and make shield swapping unneccesary in areas like DoA or sorrows furnace.
Stormlord Alex
-5/20% is really bad.
It's like Sundering except worse - Sundercrits can get kills, -5/20% can get you laughed at.
-2/condition isn't all too great either, tbh. - it's not massive and only vs. physical hits.
+10 AL vs. X is /win, as is -20% on Blind/Cripple in certain situations.
It's like Sundering except worse - Sundercrits can get kills, -5/20% can get you laughed at.
-2/condition isn't all too great either, tbh. - it's not massive and only vs. physical hits.
+10 AL vs. X is /win, as is -20% on Blind/Cripple in certain situations.
Longasc
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zamochit
People often forget the +10 armour vs species types when mentioning sheilds, but they are the ultimate damage mitigation if you know your enemy; and make sheild swapping unneccesary in areas like DoA or sorrows furnace.
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I just have not found +10 vs plants inscriptions (for Urgoz). I do not know if they even exist, I usually take vs. piercing down there.
Zamochit
They do not exist as inscriptions ~ only on the old school style shields unfortunately. As such they are difficult to find.
However +10 vs Charr can be crafted in Eye Of The North and +10 vs demons is available in Tactics Strength Motivation and Command as unique green drops from the DoA.
This is The Dirrtiest's old shield collection which gives you an idea of the reductions available'
May his character rest in piece.
However +10 vs Charr can be crafted in Eye Of The North and +10 vs demons is available in Tactics Strength Motivation and Command as unique green drops from the DoA.
This is The Dirrtiest's old shield collection which gives you an idea of the reductions available'
May his character rest in piece.
Elder III
*wants ^^^ collection*
Zodiak
Quote:
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Originally Posted by KamikazeChicken
You're always better off using +armor shields.
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-2dmg while stance -2 while enchanted
-2dmg while X +10AR vs X
-5dmg(20%) & +10AR vs X
on them. Those 3 kind of shields are my favorite
Gift3d
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bohya
-2 is conditional
5/20 is uncondititinal |
Magikarp
-5 20% is a no from me, especially me being a mainstream warrior.
i want more armor from my explorable area/arena. moar sheelds meen moar guud.
i want more armor from my explorable area/arena. moar sheelds meen moar guud.
HawkofStorms
Quote:
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Originally Posted by isildorbiafra
Get the point. GW is not about bad and good. Its about rare! -5 20% is rarer and thus exclusie and more disirable. Its all about the epeen and the money!
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kobey
Oh and retirees like me tend to use 20/20 and -5(20%) too
since I don't bring the shield or sword out to kill anymore, having it "perfect" or look nicer is more important
since I don't bring the shield or sword out to kill anymore, having it "perfect" or look nicer is more important
Zodiak
What happens though with the -2dmg While in Stance mod is that, it really isnt conditional that much if you think about it.
While Drunken Master may not be the BEST stance in the game, it WILL last for 90 seconds and give you a 15% increased attack and movement speed while not drunk.
That alone can be good/bad depending on your view, but what it WILL do is give you 90 seconds of activation for your shield's -2dmg while in stance mod.
While Drunken Master may not be the BEST stance in the game, it WILL last for 90 seconds and give you a 15% increased attack and movement speed while not drunk.
That alone can be good/bad depending on your view, but what it WILL do is give you 90 seconds of activation for your shield's -2dmg while in stance mod.
Chthon
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MagmaRed
For PvE, a stance/enchantment shield is better, as long as you have the ability to use those skills. Consider it, with rough numbers.
-2/stance (and using a stance essentially 100% of the time) You get hit 100 times, you take -200 damage. -5/20% (and assuming the 20% works exactly 20%) You get hit 100 times (damage reduction accurs 20 times), you take -100 damage. So in a perfect scenario (stance/enchant, etc. are all guaranteed) you take half as much damage with a -2 shield than with a -5 shield. Now, a Paragon has no stances, and neither do most casters. So unless you are using a stance skill of some kind, or working with an enchantment based build/team, you would do better with a -5/20% As mentioned, if you do something with a Bonder, then the -2/enchant is the best option. PvP, however, will see most people using multiple shields with multiple mods, and switching based on your enemy. |
PvP - Get a whole collection of 10 AL vs X shields.
PvE - Unless you want to spend a char slot on a squire to carry your massive shield collection, get -2 stance/ench, whichever your build supports.
michaelhunter81
guess I should have metioned earlier that i was talking about a warrior.
well thanks alot guys all this info should help out.
well thanks alot guys all this info should help out.
Keithark
My warrior usually has a blind reduction or cripple reduction mod on the shield, he has plenty of armor but can't kill anything if he cant see
Faer
A -2, -5, or -3 physical damage shield doesn't do shit against anything else. A set of +10AL shields will protect you from just about everything.
That being said, -2 > -5, but +10AL > *.
That being said, -2 > -5, but +10AL > *.
fenix
Yeah, Faer is right. There's NO reason to use a -5 (20%) or even a -2 when you can use a +10 AL. It's silly to do so, because the +10 will help you 100% of the time, whereas the -2 and -5 are ONLY vs physical damage, so aren't very helpful at all.
That being said, the 20% shorter Blind/Cripple are both excellent choices as well.
That being said, the 20% shorter Blind/Cripple are both excellent choices as well.
Rushin Roulette
Quote:
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Originally Posted by fenix
Yeah, Faer is right. There's NO reason to use a -5 (20%) or even a -2 when you can use a +10 AL. It's silly to do so, because the +10 will help you 100% of the time, whereas the -2 and -5 are ONLY vs physical damage, so aren't very helpful at all.
That being said, the 20% shorter Blind/Cripple are both excellent choices as well. |
The -2 to -5 mods are against physical which is blunt, slashing and piercing.
+10AL for physical is only against one particualr type of damage; slashing, piercing, or blunt. If you are carrying a +piercing shield and get hit by a hammer warrior, you get +0AR for that attack.
Having said that, +10AR is nearly always better if you have the correct shield at the right time... but for lazy players like me I still prefere to have one -3/+60HP^hexed shield and maybe a -2/+45^enchanted/stanced.
fenix
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rushin Roulette
That being said, the same applies to the +10AL mods, they are even more conditional.
The -2 to -5 mods are against physical which is blunt, slashing and piercing. +10AL for physical is only against one particualr type of damage; slashing, piercing, or blunt. If you are carrying a +piercing shield and get hit by a hammer warrior, you get +0AR for that attack. Having said that, +10AR is nearly always better if you have the correct shield at the right time... but for lazy players like me I still prefere to have one -3/+60HP^hexed shield and maybe a -2/+45^enchanted/stanced. |
Div
-5/20% works out to be a 1 physical damage reduction every hit. -2/stance works out to be a 2 physical damage reduction every hit. If you have drunken master or something, then the -2 is obviously...twice as good. However, neither compare with something like +10 vs slashing or piercing, as it can prevent 10-20 damage a hit about 50% of the time while fighting physicals (which works out to a lot more than the other crappy mods).
Chthon
Quote:
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Originally Posted by fenix
Yeah, Faer is right. There's NO reason to use a -5 (20%) or even a -2 when you can use a +10 AL. It's silly to do so, because the +10 will help you 100% of the time, whereas the -2 and -5 are ONLY vs physical damage, so aren't very helpful at all.
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[edit: 10AL vs slashing might keep up with -2 stance/ench against some mixed mobs, particularly in earlier parts of the game without paragons and assassins adding so much piercing damage to the mix.]
-5 20% is only a good mod if you're facing mixed mobs and you've just got no way to keep up a stance or enchantment at all (not even an enchantment coming from a teammate). Otherwise it's junk.
Sword
-5 20% is absolute garbage