Is it just me or has half of the tactic skills been completely nerfed to hell?
I understand it was to counter out some of the skills being spammed by paragons, but c'mon guys, was this really the ONLY option? Couldn't you have made it so it was only effective at higher levels, or maybe even switch the skills attribute?
Example:
Shield stance
- used to last like 16 seconds with a 32 second recharge or so.
- now lasts 5 seconds, 15 sec recharge.
Oh well, I guess I can use it to cover healing signet now! NVM, I'll just use lions comfort.
Defensive stance
- used to last like 16 seconds with a 32 second recharge, ended if any skills (or was it attack only?) skills were used.
Fear me!
-Used to steal energy with no recharge.
-Now its a 6 second recharge, cuz we all know THREE ENERGY is really gonna break the energy storage bank on any caster! Especially if you give it enough cool down so those poor casters can recharge what they've lost by the time you can use it again!
Watch Yourself!
-Used to give a set armor bonus for its duration
-Now only blocks THREE attacks, because we all know warriors lose their energy and need to go eat more doughnuts when they swing that weapon a couple times! And ALSO they added a handy 4 second recharge!
This doesn't effect me drastically, but I fail to see how tactics is useful at all now in PVP, sure there is still the occasional gem such as Victory is Mine and Charge! but being realistic, neither are going to be all that great in PVP, and its stupid to sacrifice 10-12 percent armor penetration per hit for just ONE skill.
Fix tactics?
Coolquest
Artorius.Maximus
Don't forget the popular loss of the tactics health bonus on lions comfort now too. Definitely agree that this attribute got screwed on that nerf.
NamelessBeauty
Shhh, Mo/W with balance stance is awesome? Shield up is uber?
But you are right! Tactics sux now lol!
But you are right! Tactics sux now lol!
shru
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Originally Posted by Coolquest
Fear me!
-Used to steal energy with no recharge. -Now its a 6 second recharge, cuz we all know THREE ENERGY is really gonna break the energy storage bank on any caster! Especially if you give it enough cool down so those poor casters can recharge what they've lost by the time you can use it again! Watch Yourself! -Used to give a set armor bonus for its duration -Now only blocks THREE attacks, because we all know warriors lose their energy and need to go eat more doughnuts when they swing that weapon a couple times! And ALSO they added a handy 4 second recharge! This doesn't effect me drastically, but I fail to see how tactics is useful at all now in PVP, sure there is still the occasional gem such as Victory is Mine and Charge! but being realistic, neither are going to be all that great in PVP, and its stupid to sacrifice 10-12 percent armor penetration per hit for just ONE skill. |
MisterT69
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Originally Posted by shru
Have you taken a look at HA/GvG at all since nightfall's release? You'd understand why if you knew what I'm talking about.
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Coolquest
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Originally Posted by shru
Have you taken a look at HA/GvG at all since nightfall's release? You'd understand why if you knew what I'm talking about.
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the kurzick eater
these nerfs weren't linked to warriors 90% of the time:
fear me--- nerfed for IWay (crazy edenial)
watch yourself--- nerfed energy management for paras (free 4 energy every few seconds)
i almost agree on making skills separate from pve to pvp, but that would be extremely unrealistic. (i prefer killing real people's lil gw dudes myself
)
fear me--- nerfed for IWay (crazy edenial)
watch yourself--- nerfed energy management for paras (free 4 energy every few seconds)
i almost agree on making skills separate from pve to pvp, but that would be extremely unrealistic. (i prefer killing real people's lil gw dudes myself
)
Coolquest
Quote:
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Originally Posted by the kurzick eater
these nerfs weren't linked to warriors 90% of the time:
fear me--- nerfed for IWay (crazy edenial) watch yourself--- nerfed energy management for paras (free 4 energy every few seconds) stances--- nerfed because of monks abusing them (hmm 16 seconds of blocking, yay!) i almost agree on making skills separate from pve to pvp, but that would be extremely unrealistic. (i prefer killing real people's lil gw dudes myself ) |
jonnieboi05
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Originally Posted by Coolquest
Okay, so why couldn't shield stance only effect warriors, and watch yourself and fear me only effect warriors?
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Artorius.Maximus
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Originally Posted by Coolquest
Okay, so why couldn't shield stance only effect warriors, and watch yourself and fear me only effect warriors?
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Examples: Why couldn't mending or healing hands only affect monks?
Why couldn't grenth's balance only affect necros?
Why couldn't Glyph of Lesser Energy only affect eles?
Stormlord Alex
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Originally Posted by the kurzick eater
stances--- nerfed because of monks abusing them (hmm 16 seconds of blocking, yay!)
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Snow Bunny
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Originally Posted by Coolquest
snip
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Your entire post was void in the fact that Paragons had infinite energy, and "Fear Me" on warriors with an IAS and speed buffs was dreadful to monk against.
HawkofStorms
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Originally Posted by Coolquest
So, destroy an entire attribute set to balance out one aspect? I think there is a different way we could correct an unbalance in the force!
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Leave skill balance suggestions to Izzy and those who actually play both sides of the game.
Coolquest
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Originally Posted by Artorius.Maximus
Um, that would be like requesting the removal of second professions from the game.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
So the correct answer to Shru's question is no...
Leave skill balance suggestions to Izzy and those who actually play both sides of the game. |
Edit:
I just got an idea, how about making it so paragons only get energy bonuses from paragon shouts and shouts from other people, this would correct the issue.
warcrap
hey elementalist been nerfed way worse quit whining!
Coolquest
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Originally Posted by warcrap
hey elementalist been nerfed way worse quit whining!
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Winterclaw
The problem with tactics is that it was a bit overpowered when used with some non-warrior primaries. Thus it had to be nerfed so much that no one would want to use it. I'd like for anet to improve it, and have offered some skill suggestions. However until such a time comes along that ANet decides tactics is too gimped, we are going to have to put up with it.
stale
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Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
So the correct answer to Shru's question is no...
Leave skill balance suggestions to Izzy and those who actually play both sides of the game. |
i play both sides, and pretty much every update does something useful in PvP (far and away the most vocal bit of the playerbase) and hurts PvE (which is a larger playerbase, by orders of magnitude).
and yeah, tactics is broken - i still say (and have said before) that secondaries should be limited to half the power of a primary class - so that the stupid monk with a blocking stance gets 7-8 seconds, instead of 15-16.
and, though i do love my paragon, they really need to make the para leadership only affect para shouts - that way they can restore some of the warrior skills to their former use. granted, they'd need something beyond GftE for e-management on a para, but it's do-able.
Mr. G
I always thought the Idea of "Tactics" and "warriors" didnt match at all
Then again Ive seen some pretty bad warriors
Then again Ive seen some pretty bad warriors
HawkofStorms
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Originally Posted by stale
you say this as though Izzy has EVER cared about the PvE aspect of the game?
i play both sides, and pretty much every update does something useful in PvP (far and away the most vocal bit of the playerbase) and hurts PvE (which is a larger playerbase, by orders of magnitude). and yeah, tactics is broken - i still say (and have said before) that secondaries should be limited to half the power of a primary class - so that the stupid monk with a blocking stance gets 7-8 seconds, instead of 15-16. and, though i do love my paragon, they really need to make the para leadership only affect para shouts - that way they can restore some of the warrior skills to their former use. granted, they'd need something beyond GftE for e-management on a para, but it's do-able. |
The only real "nerf" that actually legitamately affected only PvE was the nerf to mob AI to not stand in AOE anymore (becuase it by definition only effected PvE, but with AB and NPCs in GvG you could argue otherwise I suppose). Everything else effects both player bases.
Tarun
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Originally Posted by MisterT69
Which is why we need to separate the skills into PVE & PVE sets. Ex: SoR in PVE has 5 sec recharge, 5 nrg cost, 1 sec cast, heals 62...102 health. PVP: SoR 10 nrg cost, 20 sec recharge, heals 70...110. Besides, more people PVE than PVP, so why should PVE chars have to suffer? Personally, I prefer DoA, UW, and FoW runs compared to HA. It's just so much more fun
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Zaris
The only tactics that are used in gw is rush and run anyway
Winterclaw
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Originally Posted by stale
you say this as though Izzy has EVER cared about the PvE aspect of the game?
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bhavv
Rather then nerfing how about buffing unused skills, particularly ones that counter the popular ones so that they see more play?
E.G vocal minority - 5e 1c 10r
Remove 1...3 shouts / chants from nearby foes to target. For 10 seconds target cannot use shouts or chants.
Soothing images - target foe and nearby foes take twice as long to build adrenaline. Shouts and chants cost an extra 2...8 energy to use.
E.G vocal minority - 5e 1c 10r
Remove 1...3 shouts / chants from nearby foes to target. For 10 seconds target cannot use shouts or chants.
Soothing images - target foe and nearby foes take twice as long to build adrenaline. Shouts and chants cost an extra 2...8 energy to use.
kazjun
Sure, although I can't see how tactics is going to be viable unless you move half the skills to strength or something.
Still, most classes have a 'why the hell would you use this?' attrib line so I guess it's only fair that warriors get one too.
Still, most classes have a 'why the hell would you use this?' attrib line so I guess it's only fair that warriors get one too.
bhavv
Smiting is worse then tactics.
the kurzick eater
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Originally Posted by Zaris
The only tactics that are used in gw is rush and run anyway
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bhavv
Smiting is worse then tactics.
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bhavv
Yea, I missed the tongue in cheek emoticon sorry. I wasnt serious, I love smiting.
But more seriously, the worst attribute lines in GW are swords, axes, hammers, strength and tactics.
Oh, and
But more seriously, the worst attribute lines in GW are swords, axes, hammers, strength and tactics.
Oh, and
Fitz Rinley
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Originally Posted by shru
Have you taken a look at HA/GvG at all since nightfall's release? You'd understand why if you knew what I'm talking about.
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HawkofStorms
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley
I really dont give a rats about HA or GvG. And with every nerf aimed at destroying PvE play for their benefit I hate PvP more. There used to be two things that made me dislike PvP. The total immaturity of the competitive name callers concerned about describing each others sexual habits and the continual destruction of PvE for their enjoyment. Since I no longer visit PvP for any reason whatsoever, that just leaves the continuing experience of the latter. I have concluded that PvP players must visit PvE solely with the idea of finding things that work for PvE players and having them destroyed by the nerf bat team, which solely caters to PvP.
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Nobody is out to get you and your build.
Stormlord Alex
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Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley
I really dont give a rats about HA or GvG. And with every nerf aimed at destroying PvE play for their benefit I hate PvP more. There used to be two things that made me dislike PvP. The total immaturity of the competitive name callers concerned about describing each others sexual habits and the continual destruction of PvE for their enjoyment. Since I no longer visit PvP for any reason whatsoever, that just leaves the continuing experience of the latter. I have concluded that PvP players must visit PvE solely with the idea of finding things that work for PvE players and having them destroyed by the nerf bat team, which solely caters to PvP.
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And maybe to find another game.
Orange Milk
Yeah, PvP wise Tactics is dead, there are ways to make WY still work, but you have to mangle up your bar and skill is no longer worth to have to build around a buff to make it work.
I still use Tactics in PvE land, Solo Farming on my Ranger. I don't see where this latest skill update effected PvE Warriors anyway, WY is nothing compared to comsumables so who cares.
I still use Tactics in PvE land, Solo Farming on my Ranger. I don't see where this latest skill update effected PvE Warriors anyway, WY is nothing compared to comsumables so who cares.
Ctb
I don't know quite how to put this.... if you don't like the fact that ANET and Izzy clearly don't give a flying **** about PvE, go play something else.
Yea, you're right. The last few updates to Tactics have had especially lame effects on PvE Warriors. Yea, you're right it's because a profession that didn't even exist until 2 years after the game was released was abusing that line of skills in a completely different part of the game.
And?
ANET doesn't care, they never have, and they never will. The entire game was originally designed to put down a big, steamy pile on PvE-only players' heads. They only made the changes they did (like the removal of the crappy favor system for accessing UW/FoW) after they realized that maybe, just maybe, not everyone who plays an RPG wants to run around in PvP listening to a bunch of brace-slurping nerds shout insults and obscenities and use 1337speak.
Just go play something else. I tolerated the skill breakages for 2 years until these last few craptastic updates got to be too irritating (the last one was enough that my Tactics warrior is a burden to play and needs switched to Strength, but I just have no motivation to do it anymore). Now I'm just waiting for Mass Effect to come out for PC in May.
It was a good run. I played for about 980 hours and paid about $180 total, so that's $0.18 an hour for my entertainment. Not bad at all.
Yea, you're right. The last few updates to Tactics have had especially lame effects on PvE Warriors. Yea, you're right it's because a profession that didn't even exist until 2 years after the game was released was abusing that line of skills in a completely different part of the game.
And?
ANET doesn't care, they never have, and they never will. The entire game was originally designed to put down a big, steamy pile on PvE-only players' heads. They only made the changes they did (like the removal of the crappy favor system for accessing UW/FoW) after they realized that maybe, just maybe, not everyone who plays an RPG wants to run around in PvP listening to a bunch of brace-slurping nerds shout insults and obscenities and use 1337speak.
Just go play something else. I tolerated the skill breakages for 2 years until these last few craptastic updates got to be too irritating (the last one was enough that my Tactics warrior is a burden to play and needs switched to Strength, but I just have no motivation to do it anymore). Now I'm just waiting for Mass Effect to come out for PC in May.
It was a good run. I played for about 980 hours and paid about $180 total, so that's $0.18 an hour for my entertainment. Not bad at all.
the kurzick eater
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Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley
I really dont give a rats about HA or GvG. And with every nerf aimed at destroying PvE play for their benefit I hate PvP more.
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the fact is, if every farming build out there gets nerfed today, tomarrow there will be a slew of builds already being made.
With PvE its a matter of "whats easier?", not "what can or can't be done?"
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Originally Posted by Ctb
I don't know quite how to put this.... if you don't like the fact that ANET and Izzy clearly don't give a flying **** about PvE, go play something else.
ANET doesn't care, they never have, and they never will. The entire game was originally designed to put down a big, steamy pile on PvE-only players' heads. They only made the changes they did (like the removal of the crappy favor system for accessing UW/FoW) after they realized that maybe, just maybe, not everyone who plays an RPG wants to run around in PvP listening to a bunch of brace-slurping nerds shout insults and obscenities and use 1337speak. It was a good run. I played for about 980 hours and paid about $180 total, so that's $0.18 an hour for my entertainment. Not bad at all. |
2nd of all: ANET obviously cares, because if everyone quit they'd be out of work.
3rdly: the quote of "brace-slurping nerds" does not apply at all... this is what happens when people complain about PvP when they have never even been to RA before. (I LOVE how you talk about waiting for "MASS EFFECT" to come out on PC after you just called us "brace-slurping nerds"
Shadow Kurd
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Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley
I no longer visit PvP for any reason whatsoever
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Wild Karrde
Im fine with tactics staying dead or becoming even more dead, most the skills are crap skills for warriors cept a few for farming, and theres not that many that are good for secondary profession use either. If tactics was buffed a majority of warriors that still dont understand how to play one would all just spec tactics swords and Heal prayers and use Both ripostes and mending and HH or glads defense and it would just be a huge RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing 1v1 warrior fest in AB, RA, and possibly TA, cause we all know Riposte works awesome vs any casters.
Second of all the "anet doesnt give a flying RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO about PvE" people are probably the people who suck major balls at it so come here to complain when the build they parrot from everyone else cause it noob stomps PvE monsters gets nerfed a little. They stop whining when a new noobstomp build comes out.
When PvE is easy enough you can throw random skills on a bar and beat a majority of it you know that nerfs really dont hurt PvE much. PvE has 3 modes
Hard/Medium mode, Normal mode (easy mode actually) and LOL mode (Ursan)
so stop whining about anet hating PvEers
Before PvEers flame me: no im not amazing at the game nor do I think myself to be so dont say I'm stuck up. I realize there are people who just arent as good as others but tahts what normal mode and LOL mode are for.
and secondly I know my evaluation of what would happen if Tactics was buffed is overdramatized but Im just saying Tactics can die for all I care and if its buffed it would most likely not be buffed enough or way too much. Plus it makes me cry every time I see a warrior with Dripost, riposte, and Glads defens.
Second of all the "anet doesnt give a flying RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO about PvE" people are probably the people who suck major balls at it so come here to complain when the build they parrot from everyone else cause it noob stomps PvE monsters gets nerfed a little. They stop whining when a new noobstomp build comes out.
When PvE is easy enough you can throw random skills on a bar and beat a majority of it you know that nerfs really dont hurt PvE much. PvE has 3 modes
Hard/Medium mode, Normal mode (easy mode actually) and LOL mode (Ursan)
so stop whining about anet hating PvEers
Before PvEers flame me: no im not amazing at the game nor do I think myself to be so dont say I'm stuck up. I realize there are people who just arent as good as others but tahts what normal mode and LOL mode are for.
and secondly I know my evaluation of what would happen if Tactics was buffed is overdramatized but Im just saying Tactics can die for all I care and if its buffed it would most likely not be buffed enough or way too much. Plus it makes me cry every time I see a warrior with Dripost, riposte, and Glads defens.
Giga_Gaia
Too bad Izzy doesn't know how to address a problem directly. Instead of making strong counters that so many people have suggested or buffing other useless skills to make them see more use, all these nerfs are doing is like someone complaining that "OMFG the stove is too hot when I put my hands on it turn down the heat!". Maybe it's not always the oven's fault that it burns your hand? (Or in this case, the skills being too overpowered)
Kanyatta
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Originally Posted by Clarissa F
As for Tactics being nerfed useless, ask a Mesmer about...ummm.....most of our skills.
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FoxBat
I don't get what all the fuss is. From a PvP perspective tactics just got over-nerfed.
Fear me needed a hit, but the hit was stupid in that it made IWAY the *only* playable build with it. They should've gone after steady stance or drunken/distracting combo instead.
Shields up made blockway immune to ranger interrupts, but it needs to return in some form to stop this turret ranger stupidity. My idea is for half all projectile damage (including armor-ignoring bonuses)
Watch Yourself! was too good everywhere, but it's been ether renewal'd. Just up the # of hits one or two and it would probably be ok.
Fear me needed a hit, but the hit was stupid in that it made IWAY the *only* playable build with it. They should've gone after steady stance or drunken/distracting combo instead.
Shields up made blockway immune to ranger interrupts, but it needs to return in some form to stop this turret ranger stupidity. My idea is for half all projectile damage (including armor-ignoring bonuses)
Watch Yourself! was too good everywhere, but it's been ether renewal'd. Just up the # of hits one or two and it would probably be ok.
Undivine
My macro beats yours... because it cannot be deleted.
Anyway, that's strike 2. Stay on topic guys. This is rediculous. No more joke pics, no more off-topic discussions, and no more flaming.