Gate Guard Torin needs more options for LDoA

Well, I did think of it. As a matter of fact. If you will pay attention to detail you will notice that the proposal was only for characters where the title track has registered. It was not for regular pre-characters on their way to post after a normal experience in Pre.

While I am sure you would want to be my girlfriend it is precisely because of people like you and MagmaRed that I have ceased to attempt to be anyone's friend. I no longer help new players to like them, but only out of obligation alone. Nor do I spend time looking for new players to help. My experience with people like you has taught me that interaction with others is merely an exploration in how little morality exists in any world - fictitious or real. I did not help others so that they would help me. I will not help others for payback. As it stands I figure about 6,200 to 6,300 more runs death leveling to achieve title because of selfish wipes like you who insist that dedicated players must live according to your lifestyle.

It would not break the engine or take excessive time to add a dialogue option with Gate Guard Torin that only triggers when you are not in a party and have the LDoA title track active. To pretend it will prevent or delay by more than an hour or three the production of GW2 is assinine.

You're a bit old for me, Fitz. But I'll keep you in mind for later. <3

And I'm sorry, but why should gate monkeys give free services to you? Where's this entitlement coming from? It's their time. They're offering you a service that, frankly, is hardly expensive. You earn more killing shit north of the wall than they charge. And if you're managing to run low somehow, go to another area of Pre-searing and take your frustrations out on some of those god damned blood sworn.

If Anet hasn't implemented the changes you want yet, after years of the title being in the game and several threads made here petitioning to remove gate monkeying, I think you're fighting a losing battle. Still, good luck getting your title. No sarcasm -- after all the stress it's caused you, I really want you to achieve your personal holy grail.

, If your legal - don't knock experience.

A runner taking someone to a place they have not earned the right to get to, like a level one getting to Droks - is a service. Charging fellow soldiers for access to the enemy from which you are defending them is not a service - it is immoral. It is an action which has no moral right to exist.

Further, 2,000 trips at 50g each and a character will max their gold. They have no reason to have this gold in Pre. None. The only reason to do this is to be a sweatshopper gate hooking for ebay gold sellers. Which I have always opposed.

I cannot go north of the wall. It is not open for me to get there. Because of the behavior of those who oppose making work on the title functional, enjoyable, entertaining, interesting, workable, and efficient I will Never deliberately seek to socialize with any of you again. The opposition has made none of you worthy of my company in this regard. While I remain resolute for a change that is for the better for all active and beginning players - the opposition remains solely, only, and merely selfish and self-centered in their nastalgia and celebration of the spite which this title was created to award.

I would much rather finish/get done so that I can move on to playing the game. Until the title is achieved I cannot play the game. Instead I must endure this monotonous bullcrap for another 6,275 runs out of Barradin's Estate. So, in approaximately 8 years and 218 days I will be able to play the game again.

This is only because of their support of immorality and refusal to support changes to improve conditions for their fellow players and future players.

Something else they could do, but this may be much more complicated and engine change intensive, is allow us to open two acconts at the same time. In that way I could not only let myself into the Northlands, I could also let others in for free and debilitate the gate hooking industry.

In short, buy black dyes.

I see your point, but surely you recognize that the noble lore of soldiers uniting against the charr invasion is sort of... not the way the game works in reality. Storylines are nice, and that's part of the reason I play PvE almost exclusively. But really, you're asking to forego paying for a service that, while simple, takes up someone's time. They expect to be paid for it. If you were on the other side of the deal, I imagine you'd be furious at all the welfare-riding freeloaders profiting off your blood, sweat, and tears.

I don't quite understand your inability to do anything else in the game, but that's on you. Your choice, cross to bear, whatever you'd call it. Personally, I can't stand to do the same thing for long. When doing HFFF I usually quit after about 4-5k because I just can't stand it anymore. Anyway, good luck.

You really see to be taking this storylline far too serious... you are NOT a soldier and north of the Wall is NOT a battlefield, you are going in there alone and without an army and murdering innocent campers at their campfire... men women and children Charr. They just want to be left alone. No wonder they are pissed off beyond any reason and start the searing. YOU are the cause of the searing.

You think that you are so moral now looking at it from that point of view?

And as for runners in post running a level 1 to drocks... Taking it from your POV, is it moral to take a raw recruit into the middle of a heated battlefield where he has less chances of surviving outside than a snowball in hell?

/notsigned

better ways to get title than deathleveling, it sucks.

Fitz, I usually agree with your posts. Most are well reasoned. However this time I think you are really out on a limb and flaming folks like MagmaRed just for opposing your viewpoint isn't gaining you many supporters.

I can't agree with your real-life analogies with the police or soldiers. This isn't real life. It's a game. The quests don't have to make sense. They were placed there to teach the game to newbies and teamwork is just one of the lessons to be learned in pre. I mean seriously, would you drink an ale dropped by a flesh golem in Perdition Rock??? Most of us won't eat a cookie that dropped on the kitchen floor. It's just a game!

Gate monkeys provide a legitimate service. Just like runners do. If you don't want to use a gate monkey then don't. As Magma has pointed out, there are other alternatives.
- Spend a day in ascalon opening the gate for free for others. Ask only that they return the favor when they can.
- Ask someone in your Alliance for help.
- Join the pre-searing.com community. There are a lot of folks there going for LDoA and most will open the gate for free for others in the community.
- Offer to take a low level over the wall and kill the level 5 oakhearts for them. Ask that he map out before you take on the charr bosses. If he refuses then just don't help that particular player again.

Sorry, but /not signed. Feel free to flame me.

It is not merely the storyline, it is the game story line.

I do not want their sweat or tears. But if they intend to keep preying upon their fellow Ascalons for attempting to defend them I may want them swinging from a tall tree. It is not possible for me to be furious with those who are risking resurrection in my defense. When I have let people into the north I have not charged and have mapped out refusing payment because the taking of payment is unethical. The Free Riders (John Rawls) are those who take an unfair advantage to selfishly coerce profit from fellow soldiers because there is no just means of accessing the Northlands for working on the title.

I have 9 level 20s. The only non-level 20 is the remake of a character I would not have had to remake if the title would have been possible to achieve for those that had already left Pre and for whose storyline it fit. I have already finished all 4 campaigns with at least one character each. This is the only character that I cannot work with the others because of the refusal by people like MagmaRed to support efficient, effective, enjoyable, reasonable, and functional access to character needs. (All so that the foundation of an award for Spite may be nostalgically maintained.)

This is in everyway like trying to compare Bin Laden to George Washington and calling both Freedom Fighters. To both be Freedom Fighters they would have to both be fighting for something called Freedom. But one was risking personal fortune, valued life, engaged only as needed, fought standing armies, and fought for freedom – in case your education is lacking that was George Washington. The other, Bin Laden, misappropriates others fortunes, self admittedly values death, engages for sensationalism, murders women and children using women and children (while himself hiding in seclusion, runs from standing armies, and fights to impose oppressive murderous theocratic dictatorships. But because you have bought into the pseudo-reasoning that discrimination on the basis of fact eliminates moral difference you can equally say that the lone soldier or small team acting to defeat an oppressive, murderous, enemy whose intent is to enslave and eat his friends, family, countrymen, and species is morally no different than that enemy. And btw, the worshippers of the Titans are the cause of the Searing.

Looking upon the experienced, one can say that whether you have 8 weeks of training or 18 years of training, you are Nothing more than a Raw Recruit until you leave that blood-bathed battlefield alive. But there is one excessive difference you miss. Those run to Droks will there be able to obtain the best statistical equipment in game for their defense. Those in real life will still be issued the cheapest equipment a contractor could get away with making for the least amount of money the government could spend.
Where the Raw Recruit taken to Droks loses is in the development of those reflexes and skills needed to play the game at the level of challenge expected. By the time they get to a place where max armor is needed they are substandard players from not needing those reactions speeds to survive lower areas with their already maxed armor. In real life, those that make this failure with the cheapest armor money can get away with do not get a second chance to get better. Isn’t it nice our Fantasy side has such a wonderful safety net.

I would like to know how you are going to get through 16th, 17th, 18th, and 19th levels (plus the 2,000 xp needed beyond questing) to make 20th for title without death leveling.

When I chose to flame MagmaRed it will be blatant. This is merely memory of our long association of disagreement in the face of this persons intent on being obstructive to game development that would benefit fellow players and make the game more accessible and enjoyable.
Moral value does not change merely because one plays a game. The people that we are and how we express what we are does not change merely because we play a game.
I actually have not asked for the quests to make sense. I asked for an additional dialogue option to be available After: 1) the LDoA title track is active on the character, and while 2) the player character is alone in the party.

Sorry, what is not moral cannot be in essence be legitimate. You will find my opposition to running has been the unfortunate side effects of it. You will equally find my support for it has been the beauty of it as a sport. ANet has failed repeatedly to create circumstances were legitimate running could be incorporated into the storyline or as a side activity. Where else does the Pin attempt to avoid 500 intelligent active and angry Bowling Balls? A race between runners, across sea and under leaf, for faction could have been set up in Cantha. A run to warn the Princes of Vabbi of impending assault by Varesh could have been set up in Elona. A run across any number of places in GWEN could have been set up. An Underground running dungeon could have been placed in GWEN with a random max gold modifiable skin drop from any of the games for each member of the party at the end of it. With the beauty and interest in running it could have been made legitimate and interesting.
This will not benefit those who have limited time and must because of real life be casual players, but who have every right to access the title. They should not be forced to bend over for gate hookers in order to work on the title in the limited time available to them.
This assumes that someone in one’s guild or alliance is present in Pre and must dedicate their time to being used by you to get into the Northlands. Again, unacceptable.
I should not be required to join an outside organization to obtain an inside game goal. I should be able to do this on my own once I am qualified as make progress toward the title, and so should everyone else.
This results in the same condition we already have, we cease to help 99.99999999999999999999999% of all players.

What happened to your morality? That is a lie. Even a lvl 1 character who has never played the game can go North of the wall. It can be done without paying a gate monkey too. Lying is moral?

Fitz, read what the people have said. Read it carefully. They may have a different opinion than yours, but maybe they have ideas that will help you. You see oppostition, and you ignore anything else said. Stop being an idiot, and realize this is a game, not real life.

So... which one are you? Taking my analogy from before, George Washington wouldnt be the aggressor, Bin Laden is.

If you want to fully adopt the Presearing lore, then the Charr are just an anoyance, a minor race of savages kept easily at bay on the other side of the wall. You should have no idea of what they will do in the near future because your character has not lived through the searing.

By deathleveling you are commiting attrocious acts of genocide and them being a religious group, you are also guilty of anti-semetism.

Yes it does... or do you run around in real life with a sword and kill Monks just to reanimate their lifeless bodies turning them into mindless slaves to turn on their past friends (animate bone minions/horror)?

It's actually VERY common in GW to let people enter certain limited areas once they have made some quests or missions in the area.

Specially in Factions and Vabbi.

If a character has made the two 'be with a parner' quests. why not let them pass?

Is this a joke?

To start off, 12,000 gold is 240 runs, and as mentioned before, it should even be a net loss when you pick up your drops. What else is there to spend money in pre on besides dyes, ID or salvage kits? (And dyes are unneeded)

Second, LDoA has never been a well-designed title. It has stemmed off of what used to be considered (and, arguably, still is) an exploit. The title always has been and always will be, a complete waste of time and a huge grind(wait, I just described all titles... But I won't go there)

Gate "Hookers" (I believe the more polite term is "Monkey") are providing a service. Comparing charging a trivial fee in order to assist someone in a virtual endeavour to committing a sexual act for money is laughable. And the comparison to charging soldiers to go into battle is weak. There is a line between real life and gaming here that has been crossed. Anyways, the game itself is not charging you money.

The quest was DESIGNED for two people and that's how it will remain. The LDoA acquisition itself is flawed in this way because the Northlands were solely used in the Across the Wall party quest.

Sorry, you are 100% wrong. I cannot log into Ascalon, walk out the gate, turn right, walk to the Northlands gate, and walk through. Therefore, I did not lie. It is not open to me to get there. Nor is it open to anyOne else to get there.

You fail your Tyrian history test. The area north of the wall is in part Piken. The exact same structure that makes Piken is nearly directly across from the gate in. The Aggressors are the Charr and I am a defender of my species which They seek to commit genocide against.
One does not need any inkling of the Searing to know that the Charr have already disemboweled Surmia, the Eastern Frontier, Piken, and the areas inhabited north of the wall.
Again we see that wonderful liberal logic where nothing has to actually have a relationship to the accusation. In order to be anti-Semitic, one would first have to be dealing with someone or something that is in someway Semitic. While I have not checked any Charr for circumcision, I find the prospect unlikely. And I have argued before that the title should have positive ways to acquisition that do not involve repetitive ritualized suicide. But if they insist on the idiocy of keeping death leveling for the nostalgia of those who first circumvented them merely to spite the rules, at the least they could make the action accessible directly for those working on the track.

I do not generally take my flambard out because I do not want it damaged. I also have more efficient weapons. But getting to the real questions:
1) If faced with an invading foe intent on the enslavement of my country, the use of my countrymen as food, and the annihilation of my nations way of life – yes, I would have no compulsions against eliminating their support staff (logistical, medical, etc.)
2) If the use of said foe, alive or dead, will provide greater efficiency or effectiveness in the protection of my country, my countrymen, and our heritage – yes, I will use any part of them necessary or expedient to that end.

Ok, I admit to using all the orange dye I Found to dye my armor copper.
Sufficient said here. Agreed.

That the game itself is not charging money is irrelevant and disconnected. The gate hookers hanging around gates and stairwells plying their trade is little different than a hooker, but may indeed be closer to a pusher. After all, once you are started on the title they Know they got you hooked on the drug at 50g a shot.

Um, pay attention to detail. No one has asked for the quest to be changed. Only access to the Northlands while working on the LDoA title.

Fitz, learn what reality is. And you are wrong. A lvl 1 character can enter the Northlands. I didn't say they can do it alone, but they can do it. And so can you.

This thread has gotten ridiculous. Many folks have replied and given the OP other options to enter the Northlands besides paying a gate monkey. Instead of listening he has decided to just argue each point. At this point, I think he just wants to argue for the sake of arguing and it's time to close the thread.

The bottom line: I personally couldn't care less whether they change the way access to the Northlands works or not. If Arena net decides to add an option to the guard, Great!! If they don't, Great!!! Judging purely from the responses in this thread this isn't a major problem for anybody except the OP and I think A-net should be using their resources elsewhere.

I doubt anything I say will change the OP's opinion. You hate the gate monkeys. We get that. However you went from making a valid point to making a fool of yourself. It's not worth putting this much energy into an argument.

try typing PSCGO in chat...

over at presearing.com they came up with this to stand for Pre Searing Community Gate Opener...
basically a mutual free opening service, one of the community will open for you - and you should return the favour if you see someone asking.

/notsigned

/not signed

it's a good for making money and i don't go against money making things...

Considering how the title was meant as a reward for the permapre characters, not an incentive for people to make them, I don't see why the gate opening should be changed, especially now.

And I don't think this thread will last long because the cats are out already.

The title was not meant as a reward for the Pre-Searing Community. It was created as a reward for the spiteful individuals who said Screw ANet/GW we will find an exploit to hit level 20 in Pre.

GW created the title and saying, "O, look at the cute little rebellious clucks." Then had to open the title back up because the title itself was wanted by those who just have to have everything anyone else does and because it's desirable for RP reasons. But GW failed the title when they brought it back and added nothing to make it worth while beyond the phrasing of it. They set up nothing in the Northlands to support it through regular play (Death Leveling is aberrant play). They did nothing to support it without making it a drain on the individual in excessive time and funds to do it. (Hence why no one actually plays for it - they just set and go out on a holiday.)

The gate hookers should not exist. I have never earned any gold screwing over fellow players and I never will. That is all a gate hooker is for and all they stand for. There is no reason for that amount of gold in Pre, unless you are cycling through characters to sell gold on-line.

Or some people may make a new character, charge for Gate Monkey services, earn money, then go post and put it in storage.

Or some people may be doing it to pay for armor, storage, weapons, etc. when they get to post because they are new, and don't have other characters yet to have earned money. Yes, some people plan ahead and read about these things.

Or maybe you could see that the title is exactly the way it was when it was introduced. People have been earning it because they want to. WHY they want to varies. But you are right, everyone else is wrong, so Anet should do what YOU want.

Fitz, calm down. You're taking this way out of line.

Comparing the charr to the Iraqi war and the gate runners are the true enemy was bad enough, but saying Magma Red is actually persuading ArenaNet to change THEIR title to spite you and that you might actually convince them otherwise... Well, that's just a mind-set that's making you so defensive in the first place.

If it was so easy to get them to fix stuff so miniscule, I have some Tyrian Pyromancer robes that have been changed to have an ugly, plain inside ever since the new dye update.

MagmaRed is not accused of having ANet change the title. This was never stated. MagmaRed and her ilk have been identified as among those supporting a title created to award the creativity of spiteful brats of whatever age.

After creating the title ANet nerfed being able to get it and people bitched til they got it back. When they returned the title they should have changed the nature of getting in to the Northlands, increased the Charr Bosses to 14th level, and made the process for it something that is enjoyable and functional for play and story line instead of leaving it as is. There is nothing wrong with changing it as I have suggested. There is something wrong with supporting depredations upon one's own kind buy gate hookers. It should not be a problem changing it so that once you are qualified as being on the title track and are alone you can go DL for the title without paying gate hookers. Gate Guard Torin is present to add a simple dialogue to.

No one has a justifiable reaason to oppose this suggestion.

I can't help wondering if anyone remembers posts from a couple of years back (I'd only just joined Guru) where someone was posting about getting to lvl 18 in Pre Searing, and had his character deleted by Anet. When the LDoA title came in I found it rather hypocritical to be honest.

LDoA is a flawed title, sure it takes effort in terms of time spent and patience (although it seems it can be AFKed, I've never been interested enough to find out properly) but honestly "Defender"? Legendary Death Leveller would be more accurate.

That said, I think Fitz has a point. Once you're at a certain point in the title track I don't see why they couldn't make it so you don't have to use a gate partner. Sure there's other stuff they could do but then the list of other stuff is so endless anyway I don't see any reason why there should be massive opposition to this over any other minor change.

/signed

they need to let us go through the gate by ourselves I have no idea why they made it like this in the first place.

It isn't necessary now.

For now, I rather keep the way things are to make Pre-Ascalon lively.

Eventually there will be a need to add a gate monkey NPC due to lack of players.

It's kind of annoying, but I'd just leave it that way.
/unsigned
/report for thread necromancy

---
I still don't get it:
use search function -> post in old thread -> "thead necromancy" -> closed
don't use search function -> create new thread -> "suggested 1000 times before" -> closed

With all due respect to our mods, this was kind of silly. I mean, did we have to be pointed to an ancient thread full of off-topic LOLcat spam?

This thread isn't even topical for the issue at hand. Used to be that going over the wall was dangerous for newbies and having them teamed up insured their survival. Changing the teamwork requirement for LDoA prior to this year's update made no sense since LDoA was practically a player-created title. The game should not change to cater to niche players (LDoAs who death-level). However, since the game did change to make LDoA a more natural/mainstream part of the game, with the Langmar quest system, I can see valid argument for making soloing across the wall easier.

If they do so, though, I think it should only be possible if you have a Langmar quest in your log (level 10+). I'm also mostly in favor of this only after GW2 is released, due to reduced population.

TL;DR: Valid arguments for both sides. This is a stupid thread to discuss them in post-6th Anniversary.

Guard Torin in post-Searing became a bandit.

Because of that, it would totally make sense if Torin accepted bribes to let people get past the wall. You start taking bribes, and you end up as an outlaw.

After you finish the Across the Wall quest, Torin could take 100gold every time you want him to pull the lever.
You talk to him, and he calmly walks to the lever, pulls it and goes back down. His little walk to the lever would take over 60 seconds, and then he quickly runs back, taking way less.
If you miss the door for some reason and it closes, you'll have to pay again so he goes back to the lever.
This way would be slower than just talking to him to go, or having another player pull the lever, but that's on purpose.

Charr Farmers get way more than that per run, so it would not be a problem for them, and gatemonkeys won't disappear, since with a 100g fee, paying 50g to a gatemonkey would be cheaper, and since they go directly to the lever, it also would be faster.

Those that won't wait or can't find gatemonkeys can pay Torin, and those who can wait can hire gatemonkeys.

And everybody happy.

Necroing this thread is a travesty, but there is actually some virtue to this post. I have no issue at all with gate 'hooking' as the OP calls it, and made my first platinum in game doing so. But there are times when a monkey cannot be found, and having Torin do it for a fee thus makes sense to defend against this just as 7 heroes makes players able to do content when they can't find a team. I like making it still have a reason to use a gm as well, though I hope Torin wouldn't take too long to open the gate.

Edit: I wouldn't want Torin to seem corrupt in letting you in though, we aren't sure why Torin becomes a bandit, but he was a nice guy in pre. Maybe an unfortunate bandit woman gave him a flower.

Hiring a GM might seem easy and brainless, but try finding lvl17+ GMs for the vanguard quests- it's very difficult.



/signed for this

Can't you open the trade, give the GM the money, when you're past the door, and then ask him to leave?

Never tried that, many thanks.

i prefer not to do that. i prefer to have someone be a gate hooker for me, or me do the same for them fact is its a little bit of interaction before i set off to level. pre can get quite lonely at times... :/

I can understand not wanting gate monkeys as it's a waste of time asking for one, but you're concerned about the money? Here's a tip, be a gate monkey for someone else before you ask for a gate monkey. You'll make as much as you pay.

I kind of like the gate hookers, as it helps to spread the wealth in the pre economy. otherwise, its just the LDoA'ers who have the huge cash, and the rest of the ppl r begging for scraps.

you do have a good idea though for the actual title hunters.

/almost signed..but not.

Out of pure curiosity how is this thread still open? A rezzed troll thread that has only been tumbling around for 3 years and still people reply to it?
Can we get some mod action up in here?

All you have to do is read the particular rules of the Sardelac section to understand why.
Threads are not closed when someone doesn't like them, or when they are old, but when they are no longer 'valid' and serve no purpose.

No ANet employee has said a definite "NO" against a way to get to the Noth lands solo, and some people still want it, so the thread is still valid and people can still comment about ways to get let players get to the North lands when there's no one else around.

Regardless of how the initial post presented the idea, we are discussing about the idea itself here.

/signed

I know that I've stood in Ascalon for awhile asking for a 'gm 50g' and don't get a lot of takers. Then someone else comes in and offers 75g for a gate monkey. And now it's up around 100g for a gate monkey. It's not so much the money, but that you have to bribe someone to open the freakin' gate for you. I'm just not into bribes. I open the gate for people for free, but rarely is the favor returned.

I think once you've done the 'Over the Wall' quest and turned it in for the reward, that access from there on in simply requires you to talk to the gate guard.

I would bet that the reason this quest required two people was to 'tutor' new people in partnering up with someone else. Just like the quest to get the rez signet, you don't need two people to do it, but again, it's a way to teach people how to partner up.

Once you do the quest, then just let the person over the wall by themselves.

/signed
and /doublesigned

Someone years ago in this thread suggested putting a level limit or allowing free access after you rescue the missing guard.
I'll /sign on those ideas.

The whole purpose of the Northlands was it was supposed to be an area where two people were necessary (they never expected people to work towards lvl 20 here, and they wanted to make sure level one newbs didn't stray there and get stomped by lvl 8 charr.)

Perhaps the level 10 limit to start getting Vanguard Quests should allow Torin to let you through automatically?