Do people not realize the importance of attributes?

Eh, its an easily fixed mistake (unless you have a prophecies character in which case the attribute quests are a bit of a pain in the butt).

It doesnt really bother me if a pickup in pve pings his bar and hes missing 30 attribute points. I'd be more concerned about whether he knows what do with his skillbar since alot of people seem to get cookie cutter pvx wiki templates or wherever and just spam skills, not really knowing what they are supposed to be using them for or when its appropriate to use them or save them. Its absolutely cool if you don't know and have never played the bar before (I've been that person, guested that person and played with them many times before now). But if you are stuck just ask. Don't stay silent.

You notice it from time to time just watching what other players do. Most recently in HA our infuse spotted a monk repeatedly casting Divert Hexes on his teammates. We didnt have any hexes and he was clearly just smashing buttons on a build he was told to play but didn't really know how to play and hoped someone else was steering the ship in the right direction.

Obviously the best situation would be to bag a pickup that has all his attribute points and knows what hes doing. But hey it could be worse - He could refuse to run anything other than Ursan Blessing.

Sure it is. Guild Wars is a team game. Everyone in the team needs to know what everyone else is doing and everyone needs to work together. If you don't want to be a team player and are not willing to change your build to fit into a team that is kindly organised by other persons or if you are unwilling to organise a team build yourself then may I suggest you play with heroes and henchmen since they wont have a problem with your attitude.

Its no good packing Holy Wrath and Pain Inverter when one of your team mates is loaded up with Blinds and stuff since Pain Inverter only works when your target hits and does damage, Holy Wrath only works when your target ally gets hit and Blind causes your target to miss 90% of the time. Its a waste. One of you may as well not be there at all.

The complaints about attribute points seem pretty small to me compared to people who are completely unwilling to change things up for the benefit of their own team. Thats worse than playing a skillbar you have no idea how to play, messing everything up and not telling your team about it until the poop has hit the fan.

So what you're saying, basically, is you're a scrub who would grief their team by running a deliberately low quality build such as a ranger trying to fulfill the monk/rit/NRt's role. I believe ArenaNet's inclusion of a function to report people for griefing indicates that they do not support griefing at all.

It's okay to share tips on how to play better, but some people get attitudes and it's no fun.

Everyone loves to play monopoly with my cousin.
They enjoy when he gets really angry that people are putting 2 houses on pink and orange properties, when it's more efficient to put 4 houses on just the orange.
They don't like playing with him no mores. XD

Many people think of games as just games and think it's really weird getting upset over them not being played the best way. I respect their feelings on games. I was once and will be that way again.

People, this is not about builds, doh, read op again. Even terrible snowflakes DO benefit from having those 15/30 atts.

I have no idea why people do NOT get those points, but it is getting more comon lately. Every PUG i was in lately had at least some person missing atts, and it was well beyond point when they can get them. When confronted about that, they go "WTF is that important" and act like i was nitpicking about color of their armor or something. Those were Deep/Urgoz/DOA pugs. DOA HB Monks nearly always run 11/12 spread.

Weird thing is, noone else in group seems to care.

With all the people who want higher levels and more imba power, one would think that people who attempt elite missions can expend 15 minutes it takes to get those points and more imba power.

mm i managed easyly do Hm Uw/fow finished all campaings and did some dungeosn my monk with 185attri

Hey, I have no problems facing someone in PvP who decided to use their 170-attribute-point, non-max-armour PvE character. It's when they show up on my team that I report them for griefing.

I'm not sure everyone even knows about the additional attribute points -- or how to get them.

I can recall playing Prophecies with a couple of characters and then playing Factions with a character and doing the quest for extra attribute points in Factions. I remember thinking, "Hey, how come my Faction toon gets extra points but not my Prophecies toons?"

A bit of looking around (wiki ... ) showed me that the extra points were also available in Prophecies. If the attribute point quests were easier to find, I imagine more people would do them.

So, if the quests are easily missed, why are guilds/friends not helping people find them? I always tell people in my guild to get them done, as it will make their builds better. If they need help, and I can help them, I do so. In the last week, I have joined 17 PUGs for FoW. Only once was I in one where each member had all 200 attribute points. If there are that many people missing the quests, why aren't their guilds/friends helping them?

If someone wants to play a bad build, with less attributes than they could, skills that don't mesh, etc. fine. I don't care if they want to suck. However, if they are doing that, they need to play with people who will 'role play' with them, or they need to hero/hench. Joining a PUG and using a build that doesn't help the team is not what team play is about.

CHALLENGE!

For all those who have guild members that are new, bad, or play rarely, help them find and complete the attribute point quests. They are not hard, don't take a lot of time, and do give a player more options.

Because they're bad at the game.
The most scary thing for me is when they put things in attribs they're not using (IF it's not an attrib with an effect)...

Frankly, unless someone's using 4 attributes, those 30 points aren't going to make any real difference for most skills and builds.

Rezzing != Healing, which was the specific example. As someone who plays a ranger as my main char, I can honestly say that rangers suck at healing others. Frankly, rangers suck at most casting roles, because that's not their job. Taking a R/Me with a load of Me interrupts is stupid since the energy management sucks, the energy pool is smaller, and the regen is less.

It's called synergy. Some things work in a group, some don't. Some areas require certain types of builds, some don't. Taking any monk with a random bar of smites is not effective when you need a healing monk.

Most people stopped pugging to get away from retards who can't spec a decent bar or team.

I understand what you are saying but what if I need 4 lines of Attribute
Not that i would use it all the time but there are some builds

Heh they are important to a point, but funny enough, I had gotten up over 2mil exp on my ele, and was trying to run a bar, and couldnt figure out why my atts didnt fit, after looking around, I realized I had never done the desert 15 att quest. So the char was over 2yrs old and never realized the shortcomings. Since then I have gotten it, and now have over 9mil exp, but was pretty funny when I realized I hadnt done that silly desert quest

QFT.

I always get the full 200 points when I can, its just better plain and simple. But that doesn't mean I'll play the flavor of the month build :P

I think you see players with low-xp'd toons in ToA simply because it's available on the map well before the character is technically ready to explore the areas. Particularly when you can get ran there very easily.

I've met players who didn't even know about the second attribute quests, and a couple were grateful when I told them where to go for it.

I always get so fast as possible 200 Attribute points... I spend than always... But why dont use them.. Are some GW-Players so so.. that they dont know why the have got attributes? Mostly if i go do FoW i always get a Guild-Team... First we had in 3 hours FoW Cleared 11 quests done at HM.. Our guild is very friendly and cool so if you got a question like Where is the ?? man.. But if you ask their What Can I Do With Attributes you get kicked... Because first learn to play GW

I beat Prophacies, Factions, and Nightfall with only 170 atts. I did not do the two att quests in factions until well after when I was doing quests I didn't do the first time through.

I did not have any problems. Hell I beat nightfall with the oddest ranger build ever.

Conjure Flame, Flare, meter, and pin down where my main weapons. PvE is just to easy to really get caught up in if +1 in expertise really makes a difference... in a 5 pip e skill +1 wont make any difference at all.

I understand that you *can* do it, but I can't understand why you would. The quests take maybe 10 minutes each for a pretty decent increase in power.

It's roughly the equivalent of running around without runes, or with a non-max non-customized weapon. Yes, you'll probably be ok, but why make things harder on yourself?

[QUOTE=

Sure it is. Guild Wars is a team game. Everyone in the team needs to know what everyone else is doing and everyone needs to work together. If you don't want to be a team player and are not willing to change your build to fit into a team that is kindly organised by other persons or if you are unwilling to organise a team build yourself then may I suggest you play with heroes and henchmen since they wont have a problem with your attitude.

Its no good packing Holy Wrath and Pain Inverter when one of your team mates is loaded up with Blinds and stuff since Pain Inverter only works when your target hits and does damage, Holy Wrath only works when your target ally gets hit and Blind causes your target to miss 90% of the time. Its a waste. One of you may as well not be there at all.

The complaints about attribute points seem pretty small to me compared to people who are completely unwilling to change things up for the benefit of their own team. Thats worse than playing a skillbar you have no idea how to play, messing everything up and not telling your team about it until the poop has hit the fan.[/QUOTE]



Yes GW is a team game and when I play with my guild I take note of what we as a team are doing and adjust accordingly.

When playing with a pug I look to see other player classes I might ask players what general build they have.
So for instance if I am mm necro and someone else is mm necro I might offer to go ss build.
If someone has a ranger and I have one I might ask if we are using pets or what spirits we both have so we don't cancel each others out same with ritualist spirits and so on.

What I would never do is try to enforce my views on others.
I might change my build so it works better with what they tell me that's my choice

Ok you must not be reading pain inverter correctly or you have another version of pain inverter that nobody else has. When pain inverter is cast on an enemy that enemy receives damage when he attacks (attacks do consist of more than melee attacks does blind effect casted attacks?.) any ally including pets, minions, hench, or npc. Maybe the person loaded up with blind should change his build so that someone with a decent lvl in asuran can use pain inverter and kill the enemy that much faster. So you should always take pain inverter especially in areas that have enemies that do lots of AoE damage. MM + Pain inverter = instant deaths.

As far as having all the attribute points I would say that if your build doesnt need it then why bother. I have run a full channeling skill bar before and been very effective with it. If I use skills from other classes they are usually skills that dont require any attribs. (Echo) or Skills from one of the EOTN titles. Pain inverter is my favorite. Using these builds I only max channeling and dont really need points in anything else. I could put points in spawning but the extra life on destruction isnt necessary since the point of that spirt is to die and hurt enemies in the area. I can run my rit with 12 in channeling and 0 in everything else. I wish I could just up my channeling some more .

It's more about common sense, to me, and that's something you can't teach. 200 > 170, for starters. Then it's a matter of not passing up an advantage. Raising an attribute several ranks with the 30 extra points is very much an advantage.

whats so horrible about that, when you can't get it for pvp (pvp stays old way with only 200 points) and for pve you have to beat first a campaign on Hard Mode to become able to get for your character more attribute points through making quests ?
If this is not enough, then beat all campaigns in Hm and Eotn in HM, then become able to get more points...

I see nothing horrible in this... as if anything in PvE ever cares for balance >.>

and as said, in HM have monsters ALL attributes at 20!!
We players can be happy, when we have 1 attribute at 16 and only 2 professions of GW are able to have it temporaly with skills at 18/19 and then again only 1 attribute, not 4 ... (necromancers and Elementalists are the only professions, which can have for certain moments buffed attributes through skills and necroamncers are only limited to blood/curse)

I think there is for pvp absolutely nothign wrong with it, when characters can have for pve 4 attributes at 12, this is then still 8 attributes under that, what monsters in HM have and still enough of an advantage for those, so that our enemies do stronger attacks with skills, then we do ...

due to the Skill Slot Limitation of 8 won't players be able to create the absolute insanest builds, with that they would become able instantly to solo everywhere, but being able to get 12/12/12/12 would enable players to create many interesting different new builds, which would be otherwise never be invented and played by players, because certain skills of the builds would be then total weak due to the cause of too less attribute points...

Nobody takes skills into a build, when they are too weak due to too less attribute points for them, but if players would be able to create builds with skills of attributes, that are all maxed at minimum of 12 with 4 different attributes...hybrid builds would become much better and the sense behind the 2 Class-System would become also better, because the choice of your secondary class would become instantly alot more important.

What is the sense of choosing a certain secondary class, just for only 1 attribute of it, when you just have then not enough attribute points for other attributes of it, without sacrificing points of your weapon attribute or your primary attribute....
What is the sense of having characters with an average of 8 Attributes (4 from primary, 4 from secondary), when you just have only enough attribute points to max 2 attributes >.>, so 1/4th of them.

Characters, which use only 1/4th of their possible abilities is imo unlogic

Really, this kind of "specialization" makes only sense for PvP, but for PvE it has absolutely nothing to search in imo

Phoenix, you are an idiot.

Grail of Might, Essence of Celerity, Armor of Salvation, Honeycomb, etc., etc., etc. We already have ways to boost attributes, and more, through consumables, and when we have favor, we can boost them again at rez shrines (for certain professions based on which shrine). Monsters get skills we can't use, but guess what, we get skills they can't use too.

Now, monsters have higher attributes in HM, because, guess what, its HARD MODE. You want Hard Mode to become easy mode by allowing us to get more attribute points? You can already easily beat HM with the current set up.

People already use skills with NO ATTRIBUTE POINTS when attribute points make the skill better. Look at Rangers, Assassins, etc. using Flail, Tiger Stance, etc. when they can't increase Strength.

Your idea is stupid, just like most of your other ones. Think before you post such nonsense, and then ask someone intelligent to check it out for you.

First of all, a "bad build" is open to some interpretation. I took my smiter monk through Nightfall and Factions and never PUG'ed -- EVER -- for the simple reason that no PUG ever wanted a smiting monk, and I did not want to play the "healer" just to suit a PUG. And when I got bored of smiting and wanted a change, I'd play him as a ranger -- yup, with a tiger and everything. No PUG ever wants to see that! So I just hero/henched both campaigns with him and loved it. Most PUGs seem to think the only "good build" for a monk is a healer/protection build, and that just isn't me.

The very few places in Factions, Nightfall, or EotN that I got really stuck with playing the monk, I just asked friends and/or guildies to give me a hand.

The OP makes a good and fair point about one's obligation to be fully prepared IF you are going to play on a player team. I also agree that some builds really can be quite bad or inappropriate for the intended objective.

The only word of caution I would add here is that, ever since that "build-pinging feature" got introduced into Guild Wars, people in PUGs are too quick to make demands about player builds--which is one (of several) reasons I avoid PUGs.