Is Ursan a savior or is it ruining the game for you?

frickaline

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

Quest Of Ages

I've heard a lot of different points of view on this. While Ursan surely has it's merits, the lack of variety of builds to play has me now completely bored with the game.

It seems to me like Ursan is the only thing people want to play these days and the only thing people are looking for in the elite mish areas. I find myself longing for the days before consumables and Ursan where a good player was better than a 5 skill palm smash build any day and where a little thought was actually helpful toward the build you played.

Are others becoming disillusioned with Ursan also or is everyone still loving this "skill"?

[Morkai]

[Morkai]

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Oct 2007

Heroes of Elonia [HE]

W/Rt

People were allowed to make their own builds and choose their own skills from the begining. Ursan is a skill..and people never take it if they don't want to.

There's been 1000 threads like this one, and there will be 1000 more.

For me personally it's a Saviour. Saves me grinding the books for EotN reputation, i just steamroll the quests with Ursan. I run Balanced in missions usually, (Ursan if it's a hero heavy party).

MisterB

MisterB

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Planet Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy

[ban]

W/

Neither one; I'm indifferent. I find it a boring skill, so I don't play it. It's just a different kind of PuG spam for me to ignore.

Richardt

Richardt

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2007

http://friendsofloa.com/forum

Leader-Legion of Avalon [LoA] Alliance-Recruiting PM for info!

Quick solution: Don't run Ursan and don't play with those that do.

I will admit I was all excited about it, but now seeing that people have stagnated their builds and just run Ursan, it got boring. So now I don't ever use unless I'm doing Mallyx and I request that anyone doing a dungeon or whatev. doesn't use it.

frickaline

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

Quest Of Ages

Guys ... if everyone else is playing Ursan, I'd have to play completely alone to not play it or wait around in town not playing for at least an hour to find a balanced team. It seems to me that at least 30 Ursan groups will form for every balanced group. That's quite a queue.

I think if they don't nerf this skill soon, it will mean the end of the game for a lot of people, myself included.

Trub

Trub

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2006

Sitting in the guildhall, watching the wallows frolic.

Trinity of the ascended [SMS]+[Koss]+[TAM]=[ToA]

I pray that by creating this thread frickaline, a flame war will not ensue.
But, looking at your join date...I will comment on your thread..because it looks to be an honest question from you..and not a trolling attempt.

At first, I was highly dissapointed at ANet's attempt to 'dumb down' this wonderful game, by introducing something as mindless as the ursan Blessing.
Then, with more thought..and active gameplay within my guild WITHOUT ursaners...my mind set has changed.
GW1 is going to hell in a hand basket.
In major areas all you see is: " r8-10 UB LFG"
Then watch as they argue that such and such a proffession can't go because their armor is too low? Hahahahaaa!!
Let the kiddies have their fun. I don't have to play with them, and any 'accomplishments' I acheive will proudly be proclaimed with the line: 'Done without UB'.
The economy is a joke..there are NO more elite areas...
So, in the words of the immortal John Lennon:
"Let it be."
~Peace.
P.S.

May the Gods have mercy on GW2.

Zydonis

Zydonis

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2007

USA

Loners United [CULT]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by frickaline
I think if they don't nerf this skill soon, it will mean the end of the game for a lot of people, myself included. It probably will. I've never used the skill, and probably wont, but it doesn't bother me if others do.

Albert Algorn

Albert Algorn

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2007

Oregon, USA

MARA: Our Turtles Know True [LOVE]

R/Me

I for one don't use it but then I haven't really gotten into EoTN. It is beginning to look like I and everyone that wants to continue playing will be forced to acquire the skill and grind away enough reputation points to make it useful. I did enough grinding in NF so for the moment I'm going to wait for the nerf...

frickaline

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

Quest Of Ages

It is an honest question, Trub, and I have never posted anything like this before. I have loved this game since the original World Preview Event and never really had any complaints ... until now.

The reason I ask the question is this. If others are not sick of ursan nor becoming sick of it, then there is no hope for me to find interest in the game because I will never have people to play with again.

Nadasee

Nadasee

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Sure there is ALOT of people who use Ursan in partys (In Elite missions/grinding it's obvious these days) But sure, it is frustrating to see it in normal partys. Like they don't even try to make a fitting skillset for their profession... Otherwise i have no problem with it.

I never use that skill myself couse i love the skill building/mixing. Don't wanna be chained to one skill... So i'm sure there are people still using skills out there, don't you loose hope

Free Runner

Free Runner

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2005

GW2G

Knights Of The Sacred Light [KSL]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert Algorn
I for one don't use it but then I haven't really gotten into EoTN. It is beginning to look like I and everyone that wants to continue playing will be forced to acquire the skill and grind away enough reputation points to make it useful. I did enough grinding in NF so for the moment I'm going to wait for the nerf... Explain please because i'm interested. Why will you and everyone that wants to continue playing be forced to aquire Ursan and "grind" the Norn reputation title track to make it useful?. What is forcing you?

Trub

Trub

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2006

Sitting in the guildhall, watching the wallows frolic.

Trinity of the ascended [SMS]+[Koss]+[TAM]=[ToA]

Quote:
Originally Posted by frickaline
It is an honest question, Trub, and I have never posted anything like this before. I have loved this game since the original World Preview Event and never really had any complaints ... until now.

The reason I ask the question is this. If others are not sick of ursan nor becoming sick of it, then there is no hope for me to find interest in the game because I will never have people to play with again. Well frickaline..it's time you took the next step as my guild has:
"Challenge the clock."
Our guild makes mini challenges to be overcome without UB, it's actually great fun.
AND we don't have to associate with bears..

What I do find sad is that alot of the UB players are crying because the seasoned players won't give them tips on game play...kinda funny ehh?

Monk Gsb

Monk Gsb

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

England

Mo/Me

to free runner,

because every area now every pug is saying "ursan blessing lf 5 more ursan blesssings and 2 monks !!!!!!111" or "starting a vanquish team URSAN BLESSINGS ONLY !!!1!!" ect.

JONO51

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

P/

I like Ursan. Without it, I would never have been able to do DoA on my para. Now I got a nice monkey statue, and I had fun. I have done it a few times in UW aswell, but it doesnt stop me running a balanced team.

Numa Pompilius

Numa Pompilius

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

At an Insit.. Intis... a house.

Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF]

W/Me

Ursan is neither ruining my game (because I don't play with it or anyone who do) nor my savior (because I don't need it).

It is, however, an annoyance. It's very existence insults me, as I really like Guild Wars, and Ursan...
a) teaches & rewards people to play like rusher wammos,
b) destroys the whole concept behind guild wars: that you can adapt your skill bar. Ursan is a one-size-fits-all skillbar,
c) makes a lie of the Guild Wars motto "skill over time",
d) is boring as hell to play (yes, of course I've tried it),

and last but not least is the nail in my soul that I know that no matter what class I am, no matter what skillbar I design, it could be improved by removing 7 skills and replacing the 8th with Ursan.

It is stupid and boring and anti-everything-guildwars. Yeah, I hate it. But it's neither ruining GW nor saving me.


EDIT: Incidentally, if ANet is reading this: it'd be very easy to fix ursan and bring it more into line wrt power to the other PvE skills: make the AoE knockdown single-target. That's all it takes. The power of ursan is the power of damage mitigation through knockdown.

frickaline

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

Quest Of Ages

To those of you that are running balanced (which seems to be everyone in the thread), where the heck are you?

How is it everyone here "really only runs balanced" when its clear from the town spam that everyone is running/looking for ursan?

There seems to be a disconnect here ...

Trub

Trub

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2006

Sitting in the guildhall, watching the wallows frolic.

Trinity of the ascended [SMS]+[Koss]+[TAM]=[ToA]

Quote:
Originally Posted by frickaline
To those of you that are running balanced (which seems to be everyone in the thread), where the heck are you?

How is it everyone here "really only runs balanced" when its clear from the town spam that everyone is running/looking for ursan?

There seems to be a disconnect here ...
We hide in the shadows of ID1.(With the battle lions..wolves, and little ole me.)
Less lag, and zomg..less bears.

joshuarodger

joshuarodger

Unbanned

Join Date: Jan 2008

Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] -- IGN: Swirly

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Free Runner
Explain please because i'm interested. Why will you and everyone that wants to continue playing be forced to aquire Ursan and "grind" the Norn reputation title track to make it useful?. What is forcing you?
you're forced to acquire the skill and grind the points because you can't PUG without it anymore. Go to DoA and see what kind of PUGs are there, all Ursan. and they want rank 8 or better. you can't get a decent team together anymore of just characters playing their normal profession. you have to be ursan if you want to join the group. your guildmates aren't always online or able to stop whatever it is they're doing to run an elite mission and you can't exactly H/H DoA, so you're forced into a PUG but if you don't have ursan blessing AND a decent norn rank, you can't even do that anymore.

I D E L E T E D I

I D E L E T E D I

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

[BAAA] guest me NOW

Mo/

yup clever people play in ID1 or even korean district but thats a bit laggy

frickaline

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

Quest Of Ages

hmmm ID1 ... if it's bear-free, I'm moving in!

Free Runner

Free Runner

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2005

GW2G

Knights Of The Sacred Light [KSL]

Quote:
to free runner,

because every area now every pug is saying "ursan blessing lf 5 more ursan blesssings and 2 monks !!!!!!111" or "starting a vanquish team URSAN BLESSINGS ONLY !!!1!!" ect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuarodger
you're forced to acquire the skill and grind the points because you can't PUG without it anymore. Go to DoA and see what kind of PUGs are there, all Ursan. and they want rank 8 or better. you can't get a decent team together anymore of just characters playing their normal profession. you have to be ursan if you want to join the group. your guildmates aren't always online or able to stop whatever it is they're doing to run an elite mission and you can't exactly H/H DoA, so you're forced into a PUG but if you don't have ursan blessing AND a decent norn rank, you can't even do that anymore. Okay i get Monks point about Ursan being Overused.

I suppose we should nerf Ursan to hell and get back to the traditional "skill based balanced builds" you guys seem to like, that used to form in the elite areas.

LF Warriors,Eles and Monks for Balanced group!

Theo Godscythe

Theo Godscythe

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2007

D/

It's so uterly pointless to continue dsicussing such and uterly pointless issue, ge tover ur ursan woes and do somethign better.

Trub

Trub

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2006

Sitting in the guildhall, watching the wallows frolic.

Trinity of the ascended [SMS]+[Koss]+[TAM]=[ToA]

Free Runner..
Ever since the 'bug fix' in DoA about a year ago...(Mallyx himself was dumbed down due to whiners.)
ANY profession can go into that elite area.
It is an ELITE area.
Your skills should be honed enough for a team to pick you up if your even just BEING there.

And please Theo...frickaline asked an honest question..don't litter with your trolling.

Coruskane

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2006

The Amazon Basin

yes, international districts are where the more, well, refined players tend to hang out. Less rubbish than the localised districts and far less restrictive views.

To be honest, I don't really accept the huge power of ursan; it is inferior to many other combinations. Anyway, if they are only running ursan pugs then they probably aren;t the type of people you would like to run it with and there are enough other pugs around not to be too troublesome.

edit: one more briliant thing about IDs: Less smack-talk from little people.

Free Runner

Free Runner

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2005

GW2G

Knights Of The Sacred Light [KSL]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trub
Free Runner..
Ever since the 'bug fix' in DoA about a year ago...
ANY profession can go into that elite area.
It is an ELITE area.
Your skills should be honed enough for a team to pick you up if your even just BEING there.

And please Theo...frickaline asked an honest question..don't litter with your trolling. Its never mattered if a profession can go into an elite area or not. People run the next gimmick. Once Ursans gone the PuGs will pick up something new.

And Theo wasnt trolling he was just stating the truth. This has indeed been discussed to death.

Trub

Trub

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2006

Sitting in the guildhall, watching the wallows frolic.

Trinity of the ascended [SMS]+[Koss]+[TAM]=[ToA]

Ok Free Runner.
I see your a debater.
I'll make one more point to you.
"Its never mattered if a profession can go into an elite area or not. People run the next gimmick. Once Ursans gone the PuGs will pick up something new."


At least those players are using the actual skills of their chosen profession, not a 1 skill fits all.

And frickaline...
I'm signing off on this thread because..as you can see, the kiddies are showing up...

MrTickle

MrTickle

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2006

delete this account

N/

I've never used Ursan apart from the the quest where you have to. If others want to use it so be it.

Free Runner

Free Runner

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2005

GW2G

Knights Of The Sacred Light [KSL]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trub
Ok Free Runner.
I see your a debater.
I'll make one more point to you.
"Its never mattered if a profession can go into an elite area or not. People run the next gimmick. Once Ursans gone the PuGs will pick up something new."


At least those players are using the actual skills of their chosen profession, not a 1 skill fits all.

And frickaline...
I'm signing off on this thread because..as you can see, the kiddies are showing up... A warrior who stands using a single skill while the Eles who are at least an agro bubble behind him spam skills 1,2,3 until everything in the area is dead. Its all the same to me although of course what i just said requires a little more thought than the current "Ursanway". But thats all the elite areas would use up to someone finding out about Ursans power there.

And like i said once Ursan is nerfed to the point it no longer is viable in Ursanway (Doing something along the lines of what Numa said possibly) the PuGs will move onto that "new easy way of doing things" and the complaints will begin again that Mesmers,Paragons and Sins are being thrown aside.

Ursan is not a savior and nor is it ruining my game. People can run whatever the hell they like and i wouldnt care. I'm not forced to run it because if i want to run a normal team i'll form my own with a no ursan rule .

Also lol at the Kiddie Comment

Manos Lijeros

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Mar 2008

OTM

Rt/

Quote:
Originally Posted by frickaline
To those of you that are running balanced (which seems to be everyone in the thread), where the heck are you?

How is it everyone here "really only runs balanced" when its clear from the town spam that everyone is running/looking for ursan?

There seems to be a disconnect here ... To see what it was all about, I went with an ursan group to the Deep (HM). We finished in about 60 minutes, and the monks stated they never ran out of energy.

While I did not have ursan on the bar, I found it humorous that everyone was proud of the accomplishment. While ursan is efficient and works well (some say too well), the bar takes very little skill to play.

I do not use ursan and will not for reasons already stated on this thread:

1. Little skill;
2. Attitude of some of those who use it is "either use it or your not effective;"
3. removes any elite missions from game (now all "elite" missions are able to be run by anyone with the ursan skill--and it doesn't take r9 either);
4. simply not fun for me to play; and
5. ruining the economy due to significant flooding of rare items on the market.

The attitude of some of those that run ursan when they seem to indicate that you are ineffective without the ursan skill is jsut a re-hash of the lightbringer's gaze issue when everyone was spamming, "GLFM LBG r6+ only" ...

It doesn't ruin the game for me, I find people who don't use ursan, and I play with them. We do HM, we do DoA, we do other elite missions and enjoy our variety.

I am confused because any other similar build that was so effective would have been nerfed by Anet by now. I wonder what the delay is...

Again, my concerns are that Anet is straying far from their stated purpose:

1. The unique skill system in Guild Wars encourages infinite experimentation but doesn't allow early choices to limit a character;

2. With hundreds of unique skills per character, which can be combined for any number of effects, the possibilities are mind-boggling; and

3. The most important choices you must make for your new character are first a primary profession, and soon thereafter a secondary profession. These choices determine not only armor, skills, and fighting style, but your overall gameplay experience. Hairstyle and facial features are, of course, crucial as well.

Yet, your primary class, your secondary class, and the skills you know have acquired are irrelevant since you now have ursan. This seems to contradict what Anet has been telling us all along about variety and options in Guild Wars.

So, if it bothers you, don't use it. Many of us don't use the skill (for whatever reason). If others using it bothers you, write anet. I doubt they have received many well written letters describing why the skill may be "ruining" the game for many users. Or, perhaps, they are hoping everyone will move to GW2...

I'm just confused at Anet's direction, but I am continuing to have fun--by playing the way I like to play.

Stockholm

Stockholm

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

Censored

Censored

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuarodger
you're forced to acquire the skill and grind the points because you can't PUG without it anymore. Go to DoA and see what kind of PUGs are there, all Ursan. and they want rank 8 or better. you can't get a decent team together anymore of just characters playing their normal profession. you have to be ursan if you want to join the group. your guildmates aren't always online or able to stop whatever it is they're doing to run an elite mission and you can't exactly H/H DoA, so you're forced into a PUG but if you don't have ursan blessing AND a decent norn rank, you can't even do that anymore. So you want Ursan gone and force people to play your way?
Seams kind of selfish.

weretoad

weretoad

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2007

league of the elite

Me/

i fully support a nerf of it. the reason i played and still play to to find brand new build, those new discovery keep me addicted. however i can see hordes of player flaming when they do nerf ursan. a think a-net is nerves about nerfing because they will get even move flame mail to unnerf it.

if they don't nerf it will make an ursan strike and get enough followers to shun ursan. it seems every time i tell not to use ursan they go "well your a real noob"

Nadasee

Nadasee

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manos Lijeros
To see what it was all about, I went with an ursan group to the Deep (HM). We finished in about 60 minutes, and the monks stated they never ran out of energy.

While I did not have ursan on the bar, I found it humorous that everyone was proud of the accomplishment. While ursan is efficient and works well (some say too well), the bar takes very little skill to play.

I do not use ursan and will not for reasons already stated on this thread:

1. Little skill;
2. Attitude of some of those who use it is "either use it or your not effective;"
3. removes any elite missions from game (now all "elite" missions are able to be run by anyone with the ursan skill--and it doesn't take r9 either);
4. simply not fun for me to play; and
5. ruining the economy due to significant flooding of rare items on the market.


The attitude of some of those that run ursan when they seem to indicate that you are ineffective without the ursan skill is jsut a re-hash of the lightbringer's gaze issue when everyone was spamming, "GLFM LBG r6+ only" ...

It doesn't ruin the game for me, I find people who don't use ursan, and I play with them. We do HM, we do DoA, we do other elite missions and enjoy our variety.

I am confused because any other similar build that was so effective would have been nerfed by Anet by now. I wonder what the delay is...

Again, my concerns are that Anet is straying far from their stated purpose:

1. The unique skill system in Guild Wars encourages infinite experimentation but doesn't allow early choices to limit a character;

2. With hundreds of unique skills per character, which can be combined for any number of effects, the possibilities are mind-boggling; and

3. The most important choices you must make for your new character are first a primary profession, and soon thereafter a secondary profession. These choices determine not only armor, skills, and fighting style, but your overall gameplay experience. Hairstyle and facial features are, of course, crucial as well.

Yet, your primary class, your secondary class, and the skills you know have acquired are irrelevant since you now have ursan. This seems to contradict what Anet has been telling us all along about variety and options in Guild Wars.

So, if it bothers you, don't use it. Many of us don't use the skill (for whatever reason). If others using it bothers you, write anet. I doubt they have received many well written letters describing why the skill may be "ruining" the game for many users. Or, perhaps, they are hoping everyone will move to GW2...

I'm just confused at Anet's direction, but I am continuing to have fun--by playing the way I like to play. Now on this i agree 100%! Well spoken!
If it bothers you, just don't use it! Show your opinion!

healermann

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jul 2007

we are very wicked

Mo/Me

hello all,

I dont normally post on here, i usually just this site for auctions but i do read your forums. I would like to place my opinion on UB.

Firstly i would like to say i dont hate the skill and i dont like the skill. I have a few opinions on this and will share them.

Advantages

Well yes it does have advantages some players are not skilled enough to play balanced teams, or cant get the builds working for them

secondly some people prefer to just have quick farms to gain gold and items quickly ( no one ever moans about hearing SS looking 55hp, 600hp looking for smiter, or even trapper looking for trapper group) those are over builds constantly used.

Thirdly it is a skill that will be nerfed at a some point so let uses use it without moaning, who here cant say they never joined the HOS runs that used the barrels at the end.

Dis advantages

Constant moaning about UB (get over it its here till they nerf it)

The only thing people want to play as( well let them, find guilds that dont use them etc)

A cheap way to farm (well it is really a bit like people buying gold cheating cos it is a bug in the game really)

Ok in conclusion i would like to write that people should understand firstly it is only a game not your real life, enjoy the game in any way you can, if people annoy you in what they write then just ignore it. There is enough people in this forum that dnt like it so join with them in balanced games. I dont mind if you shout abuse at me i can understand it some people get annoyed with other peoples comments.

Well all i hope you just enjoy the game as much as i do

Regards

Stephan

Mr. Undisclosed

Mr. Undisclosed

I phail

Join Date: Mar 2007

Phailville

D/

Oh boy another ursan hate thread.

I don't use it, I don't care who uses it. Don't say there aren't any balanced groups when probably around 75% of the community still uses these "trinity" groups. You may not like that certain groups are only looking for ursans but how do you think the professions people don't generally accept into groups feel when they can freely get a group at any time? Weather you like it or not there will always be profession descrimination in gw, learn to get over it.

SilverSlave

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2006

Elder Wolves

A/

Personally I think A-Net mis-stepped with the concept of PvE only skills. They essentially made these skills PvE only in order to deliberately overpower them without concern for PvP balance. I guess they did this so they could make a challenging PvE progression from the previous campaigns but all they needed to do was get creative rather than thinking harder = interesting.

In a game where class synergy is integral (and fun), skills that are cross class and/or overpowered are counter to the original Guild Wars concept. In my opinion it's such a shame.

Mr. Undisclosed

Mr. Undisclosed

I phail

Join Date: Mar 2007

Phailville

D/

Would also like to point out how ursan appeals to the casual gamer who has other things to do besides spend extra hours doing doa when they can steamroll through. Casual Gamer>Ursan QQers

Dunno why you people complain soo much. Theres lots of balanced groups for all you trintiy lovers out there and lots of "odd" profession groups using ursan, I personally don't see a problem.

Richardt

Richardt

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2007

http://friendsofloa.com/forum

Leader-Legion of Avalon [LoA] Alliance-Recruiting PM for info!

Quote:
Originally Posted by frickaline
To those of you that are running balanced (which seems to be everyone in the thread), where the heck are you?

How is it everyone here "really only runs balanced" when its clear from the town spam that everyone is running/looking for ursan?

There seems to be a disconnect here ...
I hide out on my alliance's Vent XD

Stockholm

Stockholm

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

Censored

Censored

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergeant Miyagi
Dunno why you people complain soo much. Theres lots of balanced groups for all you trintiy lovers out there and lots of "odd" profession groups using ursan, I personally don't see a problem. They complain because they think Ursan is ruining the economy, the crap about not getting in to any non-Ursan pug's is just a poor excuse.
It's all about the GOLD

Mr. Undisclosed

Mr. Undisclosed

I phail

Join Date: Mar 2007

Phailville

D/

Making rare items available to the casual gamer, man ursans a bitch

Stockholm

Stockholm

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

Censored

Censored

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergeant Miyagi
Making rare items available to the casual gamer, man ursans a bitch Even worse, they don't make XXX amount off ectos from it