Concept for dummies!

Ok there,
I need to say that sadly, the firsts posts I read there are written by people who lacks but a lot of creativity. All I read there is deja vu in either Diablo2, WoW, typical classical RPG like DnDs, Final fantasies XVIXV, whatever.

We want to be Guildwars a game who needs to distinguish of others, so all of those previous idea-like concepts are useless.

People need to understand primarily the guildwars system. It may not look like it, but trought the eye of the concept-artists there, a Paragon is a bard, a ritualist and more when you look at its primary attribute, spawning power, IS a summoner. The Dervish, a shapeshifter in is own way throught the godly avatars, and the Norns... well, they'll be playable in GW2, and probly be shapeshifting classes. So dont start in a hurry.

The key here, is that players of RPGs are used to the traditionnal look of classes, and none of them are ever changed and evolved" from ther first apparitions trought the d20 system of first dungeons'n dragon and Tolkien's lord of the rings universe.

But GOD! Did I freakin swear in astonishment when I saw that ritualist, and that dervish, who are nothing like I've ever saw before in any game. I'd live just to let Guildwars gimme another class that reeks exotism, just to live again the nostalgy of discovering a totally bizarre and never seen class.

Obviously, the Anet team got a whole team of concept-artists on the move for the new project. But I fear here guys that the key of a concept-art or something useful for them is something outta gaming world, or more than this.
Analyse this and see by yourself how the system of GW is rich in is cultural aspects. Celtics norn, oriental assassins and priests and cities from Cantha, and bresilian-like-whatever people from Elona. You can see that the concept-artists here travels or at least looks far away, more than the shape of a sword and a shield idea, but also why is it forged like that.

I learnt in history at high school that a folklore is driven by 4 aspect, and still remember it as a concept-artist today. Their: ecological or geographical how their situated on the world they live, spiritual, economical and technological.

Only by being able to create or at least understand those 4 aspects for your concept you'll be able to create a credible concept. But nonetheless to say, its gonna take hours, of research, sketchings, and more than what people know on the average DnD table.

Good luck redifining your "concept" word, and go learn and draw, worlds awaits!

I'm confused. Are you happy with ANet or mad at them for copying things?

Are you asking they create another class that is broken for PvP. Every class since Prophecies have just had tons and donts of bandaids put on them to make them look balanced. But when it comes down to it complete overhuals will need to be made on pretty much all 4 new classes to make PvP truely balanced again.

If you are asking for another half broken class to ruin PvP more. Then /notsigned for ever and ever and ever and ever!

but, then errr whaaa huh???? what there a question in there somewhere??? were you on a walkie talkie?? i thought i heard a niner!


sorry id love to comment or add something concrete however i didnt understand a single word of the OP.


Cronk

Read carefully, I said Anet made unique classes after proph, such as all non-core professions. I never said they copied. Except for basic classes such as ranger warrior, etc, wich are seen on many RPGs.

Go read ALL the concept's thread, then come back

I'm talking here about what players that makes concepts thread should rely on to create a concept of a character, what are you talking about. Aint nothing to do with PvP. Obviously, more classes whatever they are, more bandaids of course (if u speak of nerfs and changes)

Posts Merged by Celestial Beaver - Please use the button to Edit posts rather than create multiple posts for numerous quoted replies.

Or I could slit my wrists now and save me the trouble.

Yeah, most of the concepts sucks. Rant/whine threads don't belong here and usually get closed deleted pretty quickly.

I could go into what you should have said to convey your idea a little better, but I'm tired and it's not worth it.

http://guildwarsguru.com/forum/showt...php?t=10171974

Is this Acceptable to your Taste, Teeacheer^^"!..
Don't read the Artificer, Templar, Avatar and Acrobat, Undone...

lol ..

this can be closed... this here is either no suggestion, nor is this anyhow a CC for a new profession.. you brabble only lots of stuf about Anets devs, what for a work they have done and which thigns are based on whose cultures ect. pp and inspirations about other games ...

This whole stuff looks, as if it would fit better into the "Riverside Inn" ...
--------

However... to go a bit more into detail about this "work" Anet did:


The Paragon:

Unique yes, but its the absolute dumbest, ugliest, most fail concepted Wannabe-Profession of all professons in games I've ever seen so far.

An idiotic 3 in1 Mix out of the Concept of Wannabe-Angels, Wannabe-Bards and a huge chunk of being like a Wannabe-Warrior, not to mention, that the whole Profession is overpowered. So overpowered, that 95% of all Skill Balance Updates have NERFED the Paragon to death and this god damn shit is still overpowered !!!!
This Profession has a name, that is NO Profession anyhow at all, you can't theoretically learn how to be a Paragon. A Paragon is no Job. A paragon is foraxample a person, who acts in the community in certain situations correctly, when small kids can see the person.
Everyone adult person theoretically is for a small kid a paragon, because kids learn from adults, so should adults show kids correct manners and how to live.

If you show kids for example, that going over red amples is good, you're a bad paragon -.-

About beign a wannabe Bard, the Paragon doesn't anyhow LOOK, ACT or MOVE like a Bard, the class doesn't even use Music Instruments, what BARDS do !!!
Bards wear no HEAVY ARMOR, like those paragons do, they look far more like Elite Warriors, with their special ever white Armors and their Attributes sound far more like attributes for a Commander Class and Commanders are nothing else, than Soldiers (Warriors) with a better CAREER RANK !!!
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next one:


The Dervish: The Dervish is nothing else, than the stupid result of a massive whinery from lots of people, which cryed rivers in forums, that they want to have a shapeshifter class and naturally, as smart as Anet is, they promptly reacted on this whinery with the first best dumb chance they received to give the com such a class as quick as possible....

What was the result ? A stupid, totally fail concepted and against all other professions overpowered looking profession, which should be normally to be balanced WEAKER than Warriors, but what did Garbage Net ? Yes, they had naturally nothign better to do, than to give this profession the absolute most powerful weapon of all in kind of Basic Damage together with the most powerful special weapon effect, of multi hittign targets >.>

But to give this yet not an end, the shapeshifts had to be naturally the Avatars of the gods -.- letting this stupid class look and act like Wannabe-Gods.
The whole dumb profession is totally fail concepted !! And why ? Because Dervish were special known as god damn DANCERS and now gues, what the Dervish profession has absolutely NO RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing single skill of ?

Right, the dervish as NO SINGLE dancing skill >.< = MEGA FAIL
Instead of making a GW unique Dancer Profession, Anet prefers more to hear on massive amounts of whining dumb kiddies, which have no clue about the differences between what a profession is, and what an own species is.

When this is the way of Anet to give us unique fail professions, then good night !!! Anet would have done way much better, when they would had give us with Nightfall instead of a Wannabe-God and a Wannabe-Angel Profession something, that would have really fitted to the culture of Africa...

That would have been a dancer style unique Dervish and a paragon being renamed and reconcepted as a primitive Hunter Profession, because the Spear (javelin) is a Hunter Weapon and not something, with that Commanders run around in heavy armors -.-
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next one

The Assassine:

lol guy, don't do so, as if Anet would have done with them such a great unique work, as if GW would be the lonely game, that provides Assassins as playable profession and then in an oriental (asian/japanese) kind of wise...
Shadow Stepping is nothing special, just an other word for teleportation theoretically and this stuff makes the whole profession overpowered, because you can't defend yourself against being Shadow Stepped...

Would have ANet given the Assassine instead of Shadow Stepping the ability to go into a kind of Stealth Mode (naturally not complete invisible) ,this feature would have been for the Assassine much much more balanced, because a Stealth Mode is balancable, Shadow Stepping NOT, because against Stealth skills you can give other professions skills, that can make an invisible assassine again visible to get them out of Stealth Mode.
But you can't stop an Assassine from shadow Stepping to your behind so easily >.<

and the whole profession would have been much more unique, when it would have been a mix between asian AND persian culture, because the asian Assassins is nothing else, then theoretically a Ninja. The origin of the assassin lies in the persian culture !! A correct assassin would be far more based on the looks of the character from the game "Assassin's Creed", fightign with Katars, being Masters of deadly Poison Fabrication and the style of Clothing fit far better to what an Assassine realy should look like.
All the rest about martial Arts, Kunais and Finger Signs (Ninja Magic > Ninjutsu) < not Ninjitsu, both are 2 totally different thigns, but many make the mistake to call both the same.
Those thigns listened up here, those belong all to the asian culture of the Ninja, the asian Assasins.

But anet made themself the problems, due to the fact, that they wanted ever only to implement professions, which fit to the culture of the campaign, anet had no other choice, then to take the asian version of the Assassin, because it would have looked weird, when Anet would have implemented with factions, the campaign based on asian culture an Assassin, that doesn't look and act to the asian stereotypical kind of an Assassin.

I personally Hope, that the Assassins in GW2 will be much better concepted, being based on BOTH cultural origins and not only on the asian one, and that the abilities of the assassin will be also increaased.
For example through becoming able to weild more weapons.
Daggers should be exchanged with Katars, for the normal Daggers will receive the Assasins then equipable Kunais (Throwing Daggers), those weapons should not be used only through Skills, they shoudl become equipable weapons, also like Shurikens.
Both Throwing weapons can deal then different types of Damage. (Shurikens deal Slash Damage, while Kunais will deal Piercing Damage)
And they should get their Finger Signs (Jutsus), its an unique form of performing Magic without "Magic Spells"
Anet gave the the class still a naruto hairstyle lol, so why not give the sin also their asian cultured correct own kind of Magic.
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Next one (last one)


The Ritualist:

This one is of all 4 additional profession the absolute most BEST!!! And why ?
Because its the SINGLE absolute pure UNIQUE profession of GW.
This profession has some similarities to the necromancer, but those are not really big, and those similarities come only due to the fact, that the Ritualist summons also undeads, only with the difference, that it are ghosts and not Skeletons/Zombies, like the Necromancer summons them.

But the Ritualist has also 1 weakness, that could bring this class for GW2 to R.I.P and that it this similarity to the Necromancer, because both professions are theoretically nothing as, than 2 specialist twigs of the Occultist Profession.

Theoretically could anet combine the ability to summon all kinds of undead/unholy creatures into 1 single profession and that would be then the OCCULTIST.
A class, that would be able to summon Undeads, Ghosts, Souls and Demons.
All 4 kinds of unholy/evil beings merged into 1 profession and i'm somehow sure, that Anet will do this for the sake of GW2. It would make many things alot easier. Let the Elementalist then also become able to summon Elemental Creatures (Monsters) and Elemental Spirits, while the Ranger can summon Spirits of Nature (Flora & Fauna) and everythign around Summoner Classes would be perfect setted around 3 Professions only.


so, I'm done .. oh wait, last but not least XD:

Vote for "Move into Riverside Inn" *g*

Don't listen to PT, he's a Supestimistic Narcisist.
I think this could have been done better if I wrote it XD.
It might even be Stickied XD.

A "what" am I ? You're sure you've written this > "he's a Supestimistic Narcisist." correctly ?

None of my translators can tell me, what this means on german XD

PS: I tell only the truth about those 4 professions X)

That means you think of things Negatively, Which you shouldn't.
You should be Optimistic and Positive, Like me^^!

The Dervs, Paras, Mes, Rits and Sins are great Classes^^.
And the Para is quite Unique, but I have to Agree, It has some Flaws.

What's this thread about; anyone care to explain?

Oh, Slimy is telling us how to make a Perfect or Fitting CC for GW2.
In other words, "Slimydom's CC for Dummies"^^.

Some creepy guy wants GW to get weirder.

But hey, all I do is dabble in PvP maybe once a blue moon, I could be wrong.

Well, I actually sided with Slimy XD!
And he also got some point there^^.

/agree to everything i read. which was like somewhere into the 2nd profession cause i get bored with long posts.

Wha?! If he wanted originality, then why didn't he very look at the CC's I made. Sure I'll admit that there not the best (drawn/thought out) but HEY! they are original.

This is not a Concept Class but perhaps it merits further discussion, rather than closure, for the time being.

/moved_to_Riverside.

OP is impressed with the exotic looks of some of Guild Wars professions. Like the way Dervishes and Ritualists look and animate.
OP likes the concept artists work on those professions.

I do to.

They do a good job of making things look different than what I've already seen in online rpg professions.

I may be wrong, since the OP's approach to language reminds me of... but I think the OP is trying to tell all the players (not GW) who try to come up with ideas for a new profession to do a better job, to consider more deeply the folklore implications of the profession, specifically citing several elements: geographical influences, the influence of spirituality, economical implications and technological requirements.

Now, the way I'd understand it is to consider: will the profession I'm coming up fit in? Will it match the places where it exists, will it's spirituality match the society it's supposed to be in, would it fit in with the economic system and would it work with the technology at hand?

Or, translated into the negative: don't put sailors into deserts, don't make up new gods and cults that don't fit in, make sure they have something to do to live by, don't use high tech... etc.

I always wanted a profession that wears full head masks and long coats, but is not heavily armoured.

I read this thread and just want to know whoever said Paragon's were supposed to be anything like Bards? Sure they are obviously a commander class.

Why not see them as Leaders of a team building exercise?

What the OP was saying was that even though Guild War's is using profession roles similarly seen in other games, they managed to make the professions look very different than other games. That's all it was leading to.

I always thought the Mesmer was a pretty unique class. I mean, it's kind of like a warlock and an illusionist, but really unique otherwise. The other core classes are pretty common roles, though.

Although I do love the unique flavor the Mesmer and the 4 non-core classes brought Guild Wars, I actually enjoy more simplistic and basic professions. The reason is because with the right system, the players themselves can take the characters into unique directions. In fact, that's one of the main reasons I love the dual-profession system in GW. A Ranger has his pre-defined role, as an archer who masters the wilderness, but make him a R/E, and he is now an archer who commands arcane magic.

So yeah, simple professions, complex character-building system is the way I like it.

That's the implication I got, too.

I actually decided when I first got Guild Wars to play a mesmer because it was very much like the Coercer class in Everquest 2. The role mesmer's have is what I've usually heard called a crowd control or mezzer in other games. In fact the name mesmer I assumed came from the mezzer archtype.
You are right they are a mishmash of things. The Echo. mimicry and skill stealing is something a mezzer never had in other games I played.

I know what you're talking about, and I thought that, too when I first started playing. Imagine my disappointment when I found out that I couldn't actually "control" foes. The best we get with the Mesmer for control are skills like Diversion and Blackout, and maybe skills like Frustration/Arcane Conundrum. But, I really wanted to make monsters my temporary pets.

Yeah, lol. I was disappointed to.
What?! I can't mez people or stun or root or dominate and control them?!
I was disappointed because it wasn't what I was used to.
It was for the best though. It would have broken so much.

Good god. This thread makes my head hurt.

Heres some of my points.

1) Originality is overrated.
2) A class' basic image/theming is not as important as the function and gameplay style it carries.
3) Stop trying to apply existing ideas and trying to pigeonhole the game classes. Im looking at you Phoenix. The Paragon is NOT A FRIGGIN BARD. Its not a WANNABE bard. It's simply an overpowered buff class. I could rename all the skills of a paragon removing any references to sound/music/echo/chants and rename it to something like a technology class, or a magical armor class, ITS FUNCTIONALLY THE SAME.

In other words, classes like the Paragon fail because it is not that functionally different from a warrior (shouts, shield and a martial weapon) and the fact that counters to its skills are not balanced with the other classes.

The Dervish's physical appearance and weaponry less relevant than its function. Being MORE MELEE. The shapeshifter functionality does not give it enough uniqueness vs a warrior or a ranger with melee weapons.

The assassin is more unique in function HOWEVER, its function is too much of a niche.

The ritualist is, imo the most balanced of the new classes (as balanced as things can get), of course it was heavily exploited since it compliments other classes very well.

FOR GOD SAKES ITS "THROUGH" ALREADY. AHHHHHHH THE GRAMMATICAL TORTURE!!! WHY GOD WHY????

Seriously between your post having so many grammar problems and the fact that I think you're reading into it way too much, I just don't really understand what you are trying to say.

I want a pony class. I could ride around and sing pony songs while running ursan blessing.

Thank you for clearing that up I was getting a little confused.

Meh, I like the classes we have. If you think one is more overpowered than another, you're probably just not coming up with a good enough counter yet. New classes take time to settle. I recall nobody wanted to be a dervish at first, but then a few months in...everybody had one. If people can't learn to adjust...go play Mario, where things stay the same.

Honestly, there are just too many confused people and having to try to interpret or translate what the OP is trying to stress just derails a thread. Closed.