Am I Right In Thinking Hero Monks Are A Waste? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

whufc89

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2007

UK

E/

21 Mar 2008 at 00:25 - 1

I'm not sure whether or not this should have been in the Heroes section but seeing as I already have 2 active threads in that section I didn't want to add another & risk getting banned.

Anyway...

I was reading through a thread a few minutes ago & the discussion i it was about hench monks & the discussion quickly changed to HERO MONKS ARE A WASTE OF A HERO SLOT

Many people said that it's a waste of a hero slot because hench monks can do fine, and you should add an offensive hero for more damage output instead of a hero monk such as dunkoro, tahlkora etc.

What do you all think?

quickmonty

Ancient Windbreaker

Join Date: May 2005

21 Mar 2008 at 00:28 - 2

Personally, I would rather take hench monks and leave the hero slots open for whatever I need at that time. I have found that the hench monks do a good enough job.

Others may disagree.

Anon-e-mouse

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

@ Home

League Of Friends [LOF]

R/Mo

21 Mar 2008 at 00:29 - 3

Except in a lot of places where there's only one hench monk = Not viable

Talarian

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2008

The Ninth Legion [TNL]

E/

21 Mar 2008 at 00:32 - 4

Depends where you're playing. I for one would not trust Alesia to do anything other than charge into battle and proceed to get slaughtered. Mehnlo on the other hand, is perfectly capable.

The best advice? Run sabway and the henchmen will be irrelevant.

whufc89

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2007

UK

E/

21 Mar 2008 at 00:33 - 5

OK so at the moment I have:

Me - Ele
Pyre Fierceshot - Ranger Interrupter
Master Of Whispers - Minion Master
Dunkoro - Healer

Henches I usually bring with me are:

Lina - Protection Monk
Mhenlo - Healer
Devona - Fighter
Herta - Earth Warder

If I was to take Dunkoro out I'm really not sure what to replace him with. I was thinking maybe a paragon, but I'm not sure

Kook~NBK~

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2005

A little chalet outside Drok's

Natural Born Killaz

21 Mar 2008 at 00:33 - 6

Hero Monks come in very handy when:

1. In an area with the party size is 4.
2. When you're out questing with someone and their heroes.

whufc89

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2007

UK

E/

21 Mar 2008 at 00:34 - 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talarian

Depends where you're playing. I for one would not trust Alesia to do anything other than charge into battle and proceed to get slaughtered. Mehnlo on the other hand, is perfectly capable.

The best advice? Run sabway and the henchmen will be irrelevant.

Everyone uses sabway though, I'd prefer to think up the majority of something on my own really.

Marverick

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

R/

21 Mar 2008 at 00:36 - 8

Quote:

Originally Posted by whufc89

OK so at the moment I have:

Me - Ele
Pyre Fierceshot - Ranger Interrupter
Master Of Whispers - Minion Master
Dunkoro - Healer

Henches I usually bring with me are:

Lina - Protection Monk
Mhenlo - Healer
Devona - Fighter
Herta - Earth Warder

If I was to take Dunkoro out I'm really not sure what to replace him with. I was thinking maybe a paragon, but I'm not sure

2 AI healers are really redundant; IMO I would take a prot hero (since protection hench suck) and 1 healer hench

kratimas

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Order of the Setting Sun

R/

21 Mar 2008 at 00:36 - 9

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anon-e-mouse

Except in a lot of places where there's only one hench monk = Not viable

There are however very few places that you would ever need more then one monk so, this really shouldn't be a problem. There may be one or two exceptions but, I can't think of any right off hand.

@OP, yes taking a hero monk is a wasted slot execpt in spots you can only take 4 in your party.

Krat

Talarian

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2008

The Ninth Legion [TNL]

E/

21 Mar 2008 at 00:37 - 10

If you're running two hench monks already, there's no need to bring a third. If you've got your other heroes set up properly, casters will be nullified and melee mobs will keep running into a wall of minions. I suggest you replace Dunkers with Gwen, and set her as another interrupt/e-denial hero.

jonnieboi05

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

Mableton, Georgia

Guild Ancestors Reunited [?????????]

21 Mar 2008 at 00:37 - 11

"sabway this", "sabway that", "sabway is teh 1337 uber h4x0r build to run". *sigh* ...getting really fed up with people always claiming "sabway" is sooooo great and then are so quick to bash on ursan users. you run sabway, a build that thousands beyond thousands use, so, why complain and cry about else everyone using ursan? contradictive ftl, maybe? "sabway" imo, and this is NOT a flame, = get a more creative build that requires skill and start thinking for yourself, plz?

anyways, on the note of heroes, i personally run 2 ele 1 monk whenever i do any form of pve and it has worked just fine and has allowed me to do whatever it is i wanted to do. it's a matter of prefference, so, do what you like best.

Serenitysong

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2008

Clandestiny of Solitude [LaZy]

E/

21 Mar 2008 at 00:38 - 12

I agree with Quickmonty. I would much rather save my hero spots for MM/spirit spamming/interrupt/etc and use the hench monks. I frequently vanquish with h/h and find the hench monks do a fine job managing the health of the party in most spots. I also know alot of people feel that a N/Rt healer is far superior to a monk healer in almost all cases.

Talarian

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2008

The Ninth Legion [TNL]

E/

21 Mar 2008 at 00:40 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnieBoi05

"sabway this", "sabway that", "sabway is teh 1337 uber h4x0r build to run". *sigh* ...getting really fed up with people always claiming "sabway" is sooooo great and then are so quick to bash on ursan users. you run sabway, a build that thousands beyond thousands use, so, why complain about cry about else everyone using ursan? contradictive ftl, maybe? "sabway" imo, and this is NOT a flame, = get a more creative build that requeres skill and start thinking for yourself, plz?

Just so you know, I couldn't care less about Ursan, I feel it has its place just like all the other OP PvE only skills in the game. Plus, I've been playing this game so long that all I have left to do is grind titles, so I really don't need to be worrying about skill at times like those

Parson Brown

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

In ur base...

The one true [Hope]

E/

21 Mar 2008 at 00:41 - 14

I very rarely take a healer hero. If I ever take a hero monk, it's usually to smite in an area with a lot of undead.

Hench monks are fine, most of the time. But if you do go for the third hero monk, don't use any skills that the henchies use... they're not shy about overlapping the same enchant.

whufc89

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2007

UK

E/

21 Mar 2008 at 00:43 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talarian

If you're running two hench monks already, there's no need to bring a third. If you've got your other heroes set up properly, casters will be nullified and melee mobs will keep running into a wall of minions. I suggest you replace Dunkers with Gwen, and set her as another interrupt/e-denial hero.

I was actually considering bringing Norgu or Gwen along as a 2nd interrupter but was thinking this would just be overkill.

What does everyone think?

And thanks for replying

Also, if I was to run 2 interrupters these would be their builds, what do you think?

Norgu - [skill]Power block[/skill][skill]cry of frustration[/skill][skill]power spike[/skill][skill]power drain[/skill][skill]empathy[/skill][wiki]Signet Of Distraction[/wiki][skill]leech signet[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

Fast Casting - 3
Domination Magic - 16
Inspiration Magic - 12

Pyre Fierceshot - [skill]broad head arrow[/skill][skill]epidemic[/skill][wiki]Volley[/wiki][skill]distracting shot[/skill][skill]savage shot[/skill][wiki]Sloth Hunter's Shot[/wiki][skill]lightning reflexes[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

Expertise - 12
Marksmanship - 16

jonnieboi05

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

Mableton, Georgia

Guild Ancestors Reunited [?????????]

21 Mar 2008 at 00:53 - 16

hey... overkill is NOT a bad thing. if anything, i just speeds up the grinding process.

whufc89

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2007

UK

E/

21 Mar 2008 at 00:59 - 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnieBoi05

hey... overkill is NOT a bad thing. if anything, i just speeds up the grinding process.

^^ My new mentor

Haha, anyway sorry what I meant by overkill was is 2 interrupters too much as I could drop one of the interrupters & bring another damage dealer instead as I'm worrying about the overall damage done to enemies if my party consisted of 2 monks & 2 interrupters. This leaves just 4 left to provide actual damage.

Ben-A-BoO

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Europe

21 Mar 2008 at 01:04 - 18

Like most others posted, I usually just go with the hench monks.
In factions and prophecies however they lag hex removal which can be sweet to have in some areas ... usually I use a midline hero (ele, necro, rt, paragon etc.) to take care of that as well.

Interrupts can be handled quite well by the AI and the builds you posted should work in my experience. This is for Hard Mode though since there is not much interrupt worthy in NM.

I usually bring a Ritualists if I feel the need for additional heals. Specing 15 in channeling in go splinter, ancestors and offering [E] if I am on a melee or ranged character.

Does that info help?
If not ... may others be more helpful.
Timebandit

whufc89

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2007

UK

E/

21 Mar 2008 at 01:09 - 19

Every post made here has helped, thanks for posting timebandit ^^

Thanks guys & I'm still open to more suggestions

Shayne Hawke

Departed from Tyria

Join Date: May 2007

Clan Dethryche [dth]

R/

21 Mar 2008 at 01:24 - 20

Monk heroes can definitely do better than monk henchies.

But, damage-dealing heroes, especially when working together, can far outclass any other damage-dealing or utility heroes. Given that, all your hero slots are most often best used by putting in damage-dealing or synergized builds, the henchies have to find some way of playing healer, and the only class of hench that really does that well is Monk.

Lord Xivor

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2007

Fort Bragg, NC

Our God Is A Consuming [FIRE]

Rt/A

21 Mar 2008 at 01:28 - 21

I usually bring a hero prot and a healer hero, especially where Mhenlo is, as his usage of Word of Healing rocks.

Lately, I have bringing my own rendition of Sabway's healer, except I am running it as Necro/Monk as a Word of Healing/Protection hybrid. It is by far the best heal/prot hybrid that I have ever used yet, with absolutely awesome energy management.

Giga Strike

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

stranded in vabbi this time

None [N/A]

21 Mar 2008 at 01:28 - 22

hero monks aren't bad. there are definatly better heroes that you can bring (mesmer, ranger/interrupter, MM). but they are still good with many of the prefered builds and do a great job of healing.

i say its situational. that is if you cant find a human monk.

whufc89

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2007

UK

E/

21 Mar 2008 at 01:37 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giga Strike

hero monks aren't bad. there are definatly better heroes that you can bring (mesmer, ranger/interrupter, MM). but they are still good with many of the prefered builds and do a great job of healing.

i say its situational. that is if you cant find a human monk.

^^ EXACTLY what I have decided to use, nice

Kamara

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

Ponie Hill, Lion's Arch International

Blinkie Kaulitz Armie

E/

21 Mar 2008 at 01:37 - 24

It depends where you are, IMO. EotN and NF the monk henches work well together. Prophecies and Factions you're totally drowning in incompetence due to lack of decent, cheap hex removal and cond. removal. Not to mention the 10e spell spam without e-management. *sobs*. Ever had Danika waste all her energy because a minion got daze on it? *strangles the useless bint*

Playing a warrior in prophecies was *not* fun. "I'm blind! I'm blind! .... I'm still blind. Hey.... Alesia. Monkbot, gonna do anything about the blind....?"

Alesia's response? "...... *Healing Breeze!* "

Yeah, thanks love, that totally improved the condition -_-;;

So yeah - in short. It's conditional. And I'll generally take one hybrid monk or a N/Rt with me to keep the red bars up / keep conds/hexes off my party.

RavagerOfDreams

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2007

somewhere over the rainbow....

A/

21 Mar 2008 at 02:02 - 25

it depends entirely on the area

in some areas monk henchies do fine and you can bring along other heroes with ridiculously overpowered bars and just blow through the place

however other areas require special builds (I.E condition heavy areas it's nice to have a [card]Restore Condition[/card] monk around)

so really it depends on the area you're playing in

whufc89

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2007

UK

E/

21 Mar 2008 at 02:23 - 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamara

Playing a warrior in prophecies was *not* fun. "I'm blind! I'm blind! .... I'm still blind. Hey.... Alesia. Monkbot, gonna do anything about the blind....?"

Alesia's response? "...... *Healing Breeze!* "

Yeah, thanks love, that totally improved the condition -_-

ROFL!!!

12chars

jonnieboi05

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

Mableton, Georgia

Guild Ancestors Reunited [?????????]

21 Mar 2008 at 02:39 - 27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamara

Playing a warrior in prophecies was *not* fun.

"I'm blind! I'm blind! .... I'm still blind. Hey.... Alesia. Monkbot, gonna do anything about the blind....?"

Alesia's response? "...... *Healing Breeze!* "

Yeah, thanks love, that totally improved the condition -_-;;

i lol'ed so hard at this. xD

i'd say you win the thread

Thorondor Port

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

British Columbia

W/

21 Mar 2008 at 03:07 - 28

when im playing pve i use 3 monks. one is a hero.

My hero builds kills faster than yours, and i never die. unless im a noob. which is often.

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

21 Mar 2008 at 04:39 - 29

Quote:

Originally Posted by whufc89

I'm not sure whether or not this should have been in the Heroes section but seeing as I already have 2 active threads in that section I didn't want to add another & risk getting banned.

Anyway...

I was reading through a thread a few minutes ago & the discussion i it was about hench monks & the discussion quickly changed to HERO MONKS ARE A WASTE OF A HERO SLOT

Many people said that it's a waste of a hero slot because hench monks can do fine, and you should add an offensive hero for more damage output instead of a hero monk such as dunkoro, tahlkora etc.

What do you all think?

It's not the the hench monks "do fine" -- in fact, they suck balls. It's that the hench monks suck, but suck a lot less than than the other hench. So a well-build monk hero is going to be maybe 75% better than a monk hench, but a well-built necro hero is going to be 50,000% better than a necro hench.

So, in situations where you've got 3 hero slots and 4 hench slots, you're almost always better off using heroes to fill the offensive roles that hench super-duper-suck at, even though that means putting up with oops-yeah-I-forgot-to-heal-you-again Mhenlo and only-ever-using-PS-to-heal-with-the-DF-bonus Lina for your monks.

Anon-e-mouse

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

@ Home

League Of Friends [LOF]

R/Mo

21 Mar 2008 at 04:57 - 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by kratimas

There are however very few places that you would ever need more then one monk so, this really shouldn't be a problem. There may be one or two exceptions but, I can't think of any right off hand.

Well for starters there's HM. Try taking 1 healer hench and seeing how far you get whilst attempting some vanq'ing.

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

21 Mar 2008 at 05:20 - 31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anon-e-mouse

Well for starters there's HM. Try taking 1 healer hench and seeing how far you get whilst attempting some vanq'ing.

I haven't needed more than one monk in HM for a long time. 2 Paragons, a Rit healer, and an MM with portable meat shields along with that single monk provide plenty of protection and healing, with a lot of damage to boot. Add in a BHA Ranger, Curses Necro, and someone (warrior or paragon) to spam SY!, and you've got a tight team that steamrolls HM and takes little to no damage at all. You can even replace the monk with Ractoh's orders Dervish.

Barbie

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2008

Qu??bec

W/

21 Mar 2008 at 06:27 - 32

I used 3 hero monks to beat the Titans missions ^^

Iuris

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

Crazy ducks from the Forest

W/

21 Mar 2008 at 07:41 - 33

Usually, the available henchmen alone are enough to pass an area/mission.

However, I would recommend using hero monks in the following cases:

-low level areas. You can get a higher level monk, which helps quite a bit. Also, the areas usually only allow a single monk.

-lvl 20 areas where only one henchman monk is available. This usually only happens in a few areas in Factions.

-areas where a specific type of monk is needed. For example, some areas really need a full party healer, and since those are not available among the henchmen, you have to get a hero. An example would be the final mission of EotN, where your entire party is constantly burning - the party will definitely need party wide healing, probably two Light of deliverance monks.

In other cases, using henchmen monks leaves you three spaces for very effective elementalist nukers, mesmer/ranger interrupters, minion masters, SS/SV curse casters and similar - and those you don't get from henchmen...

Dark Kal

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

21 Mar 2008 at 08:35 - 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamara

Playing a warrior in prophecies was *not* fun. "I'm blind! I'm blind! .... I'm still blind. Hey.... Alesia. Monkbot, gonna do anything about the blind....?"

Alesia's response? "...... *Healing Breeze!* "

Yeah, thanks love, that totally improved the condition -_-;;

Alesia doesn't have any condition removal skills, I wonder who the real idiot is

Kamara

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

Ponie Hill, Lion's Arch International

Blinkie Kaulitz Armie

E/

21 Mar 2008 at 09:50 - 35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Kal

Alesia doesn't have any condition removal skills, I wonder who the real idiot is

Yeah, well aware of that, that was kind of the whole point of my post. People claiming henches are better than heroes when (in the case of prophecies) they don't even have pretty goddamn common skills like hex / condition removal.

Shadowmere

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

The Grim Squeakers [REAP]

N/

21 Mar 2008 at 10:10 - 36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamara

Playing a warrior in prophecies was *not* fun. "I'm blind! I'm blind! .... I'm still blind. Hey.... Alesia. Monkbot, gonna do anything about the blind....?"

Alesia's response? "...... *Healing Breeze!* "

Yeah, thanks love, that totally improved the condition -_-;;

So yeah - in short. It's conditional. And I'll generally take one hybrid monk or a N/Rt with me to keep the red bars up / keep conds/hexes off my party.

yeah Alesia should be fired from the monk profession, if it wasn't for human monks I'd be amazed any of us made it out of ascalon.

At one point I was so fed up with the Alesia I attempted to recruit a monk tengu boss I came up against...he was a smiting monk but I still maintain it would have been an improvement for the team.

so with the exception of Alesia I find most monk henchies to be quite capable and just as competent as a hero monk

Pleikki

WTB q8 15^50 Weapons!

Join Date: Nov 2006

???oo ???ugs ???lan [?????????]

21 Mar 2008 at 11:26 - 37

I sometimes use hench monks sometimes 1 hero. depends on area.

IslandHermet

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2007

21 Mar 2008 at 11:54 - 38

Quote:

Originally Posted by whufc89

I'm not sure whether or not this should have been in the Heroes section but seeing as I already have 2 active threads in that section I didn't want to add another & risk getting banned.

Anyway...

I was reading through a thread a few minutes ago & the discussion i it was about hench monks & the discussion quickly changed to HERO MONKS ARE A WASTE OF A HERO SLOT

Many people said that it's a waste of a hero slot because hench monks can do fine, and you should add an offensive hero for more damage output instead of a hero monk such as dunkoro, tahlkora etc.

What do you all think?

It all depends on hero setup, and what areas you are doing.

Sometimes (not all the time) the hero monks have energy trouble or something of that nature. So if I can change a few around to keep up with my fast paced rampage through the area it is much better.

which is why most people use n/rt or n/mo as pve healers, a necro/monk prot hybrid can protect better than the same build on a monk (only if you can kill the monsters). just look at it like this you have a n/mo with a prot,zb build and a mo/e or mo/me with the same build, the necro can pop up prot spirit on 6 people in the same time a mo can (each have 60 energy)but this is when everything differs (you kill 1 thing and the necros energy jumps back up and allows him to cast more ps (im useing ps as a example because it cost 10 energy) in the same amount of time vs the same mob of mosters a necro healer can keep up more enchants/heals than a monk, even tho the monk has a added heal with runes the necro still overpowers in heal to energy regen ration, once the monk hits 0 energy its a waiting game or if you have a biper it goes a little faster (this waiting for the monks can cause you to spend more time in a area then needed).

With the necro healers or prots setup you do not have to wait for energy and you do not have to worrie about energy denial all you have to do Is kill.

Dark Kal

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

21 Mar 2008 at 14:11 - 39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamara

Yeah, well aware of that, that was kind of the whole point of my post. People claiming henches are better than heroes when (in the case of prophecies) they don't even have pretty goddamn common skills like hex / condition removal.

Henchmen are pretty decent monks in general, but sometimes you'll want to opt for a hero monk. Condition/Hex removal is pretty much a waste most of the time in PvE (unless it's a heavy condition/hex area) since the condition will just be directly reapplied again. And most conditions and hexes don't really warrant a removal. Also henchmen don't properly use condition/hex removal skills so I'd rather they don't waste their energy on it. Knowing henchmen don't carry condition/hex removal skills tells you that you should bring your own.

sixofone

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2007

P/

21 Mar 2008 at 23:53 - 40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamara

Playing a warrior in prophecies was *not* fun. "I'm blind! I'm blind! .... I'm still blind. Hey.... Alesia. Monkbot, gonna do anything about the blind....?"

Alesia's response? "...... *Healing Breeze!* "

Classic! LMAO!!

In Prophecies, your often stuck w/1 badly setup monk (Alesia). When you can finally take 2, the prot monk does pretty well and helps fill in where Alesia is weak. But, they both like to run into the front and (often) get killed. So, just to have some control, I usually take 1 monk hero.