I'm Really In A Bit Of A Frustrating Predicament To Do With Heroes! (LONG READ)

whufc89

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2007

22 Mar 2008 at 05:58 - 41

OK great, so finally after taking in 99% of your advice, here's my final (hopefully) MM hero build.

[skill]jagged bones[/skill][skill]animate bone minions[/skill][skill]animate shambling horror[/skill][skill]death nova[/skill][skill]blood of the master[/skill][skill]aegis[/skill][skill]signet of lost souls[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

Death Magic - 16
Soul Reaping - 9
Protection Prayers - 9

Although, one final question... I can't help but feel SOLS is somehow a waste of a skill slot considering my MM has 585 health & can lose more much more than 70 health from a single attack, and SOLS only heals him by 70 every 8 seconds.

Although I'm probably just overanalyzing.

Thanks for your help so far.

Now I have to figure out which 2 heroes to include in my other 2 hero slots

I was thinking Vekk with the following build as one of the heroes:

[skill]elemental attunement[/skill][skill]fire attunement[/skill][skill]immolate[/skill][skill]searing heat[/skill][skill]teinai's heat[/skill][skill]rodgort's invocation[/skill][skill]fireball[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

Although I'm not sure whether this or a SF/SH build would be better for a hero, due to them spamming so much & not being concerned with wasting energy.

Burst Cancel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2006

Domain of Broken Game Mechanics

22 Mar 2008 at 07:11 - 42

The concept of a minion bomber is different from standard MM - you want to get the maximum number of minions per body so you can put nova on them and blow things up everywhere. As a result, the only summon skill you really need is bone minion. Shambling Horror isn't terrible, but it's not necessary by any means.

If those are the kinds of ele bars you're thinking of running, I'd really suggest running something else - like the Rt/x. A lot of people underestimate the damage that Splinter Weapon and Ancestor's Rage can do. Splinter, in particular, is worth potentially 492 damage per cast at just 12 spec and increases to 705 per cast at 14. Pretty good for a skill that's only 5e and has semi-spammable recharge.

whufc89

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2007

22 Mar 2008 at 07:24 - 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

Burst Cancel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2006

Domain of Broken Game Mechanics

22 Mar 2008 at 07:44 - 44

You can run dual attunes with Rodgort's if you like, but the rest of the bar isn't really doing anything except causing AoE scatter, which is probably the last thing you want. I stopped running ele heroes because I couldn't think of what to fill their bars with without access to PvE skills. That said, a common option is E/Mo with stuff like Aegis tacked onto the end.

Splinter Weapon works on anything. Heroes will cast it indiscriminately, and damage will be going off all over the place. If you get buffed, make sure you wand something useful.

Devona's actually not a bad choice for H/Hing in EoTN. Backbreaker isn't the best warrior elite in the world, but you'll appreciate it when you fight bosses and just about any group with annoying casters (of which there is no shortage in EoTN).

whufc89

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2007

22 Mar 2008 at 07:50 - 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

I stopped running ele heroes because I couldn't think of what to fill their bars with ^^ My problem. I didn't really know what to give my ele hero & seeing as when I play my elementalist, I go for all out attack/damage & leave the support to the rest of my team, I decided to give my ele hero the same build I use

Do you think a splinter weapon Rit would work better than a curses necro as a hero?

Also, would a rit hero cast splinter weapon on minons as I probably won't be using any melee H/H and I'd think wanding with SW would be a waste really

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

22 Mar 2008 at 08:08 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by whufc89

You can always run a necro with curses and drop them and SR a bit so that you get channeling to 10.
That way you have curses - which are sweet and SW/Ancestor's which is also sweet. Plus you have SR which is just insane in PvE. That's the beauty of Necros and Eles. Necros have insane e-regen though SR, and eles have a much higher e-pool - and with some decent e-management - you can waste all that energy on stuff that will help the party instead of just damage.
And no - wanding with SW isn't a waste. Because the amount of AoE damage from Splinter does not depend on how much damage your normal attack does.

Oh and the ele bar.
As i was explained to - heroes use Rodgort's ONLY when the foe is low on HP. So If that is your only spamable offensive spell - they might not be as effective as you'd want them to be. Try something like the bar I suggested a few post back. If you are running SF - you kinda only want them to spam that - so don't waste slots on other skills. Still - there is nothing as good as just testing out different things. Try it - if you don't like it - try something else.

DarkSpirit

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

Redmond

22 Mar 2008 at 08:14 - 47

Your Ele bar can be improved upon but it is not that bad for a hero.

I suggest you take in the suggestions here then make up your own mind because all of us will have very different preferences and suggestions. I suggest that you experiment, try things out, and go for what works best for you.

For hero energy management, besides dual attunement you can also use mind blast and if you are worried about AoE dispersing the crowd, you can add a snare like Deep Freeze which works well even with 0 water magic. You can even make a E/Rt with Splinter weapon and Savannah Heat if you like all out damage. You can also rely on energy management skill from your secondary profession, for example Auspicious Incantation as E/Me. That is just Fire.

If you like Air magic, you can go with Blinding Surge for damage and protection, Shell Shock for cracked armor, Enervating Chrage for weakness, then cast Epidemic as a E/Me to spread them around.

As for Earth, I find the hench Herta to be mostly sufficient but if you want to include Earth magic, Sandstorm and Ward against Melee are nice. Ward against Elements, Ward against Foes, and Eruption are also nice.

All I am giving are some ideas for you to mess around with rather than actual builds so you can pick and choose what you like.

whufc89

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2007

22 Mar 2008 at 08:17 - 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Burst Cancel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2006

Domain of Broken Game Mechanics

22 Mar 2008 at 08:22 - 49

The only time SW is a waste is when there are fewer than 3 foes adjacent to whatever is being hit. It really doesn't matter how you trigger SW, as long as you're getting full damage from it.

Given a choice between a curse necro and a SW ... I'd combine their bars. In most of my teams I actually run Rt primaries with 14 channeling as my splinterbots, but an N/Rt with 12/9/9 (or similar) is fine. The most useful skills on the curse bar are Rip, Enfeebling Blood, and Barbs. Reckless+SS is nice but given the frequency of hero usage it isn't nearly as strong in practice as it looks on paper.

I mentioned it once in passing but it's worth pointing out again - if you have decent dwarf rank, dwarf weapon on barrage rangers is pretty funny. More to the point, if you can keep the enemies balled you'll have all the damage and shutdown you'll ever need (unless, of course, the enemies can't actually be knocked down). GDW + Ebon Standard is a +35 armor-ignoring buff with maxed titles, and you can tack on stuff like orders, favorable, winnowing, etc. Rangers have the additional benefit of being pretty sturdy - 100AL vs. elemental, and whirling defense/throw dirt vs. physical.

Again though, I'm just throwing out ideas from what I've run in the past, and most of this is area-specific. if you want one build that will take you anywhere, Sabway is your one-stop-shop.

whufc89

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2007

22 Mar 2008 at 08:41 - 50

I've actually taken a few ideas from the sabway builds & incorporated them into ways I feel would benefit me better. Maybe they'll work better, maybe they won't but at least I've designed the majority of something myself which is what I'm pleased about.

Anyway, the ele build I posted is the one that I use, so I gave it to my hero. I've now changed that hero's build to the following. Do you feel this is an improvement?

[skill]searing flames[/skill][skill]fire attunement[/skill][skill]glowing gaze[/skill][skill]searing heat[/skill][skill]teinai's heat[/skill][skill]liquid flame[/skill][skill]glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

Fire Magic - 16
Energy Storage - 12

I wanted my hero to spam SF as much as he could but also didn't want SF to be the ONLY fire skill he used so here's my reasoning for picking the skills above...

SF - Can spam it over & over

Fire attunement - self explanatory

Glowing Gaze - for energy

SH/TH - They both recharge in 30 secs so once he's casted them, he won't waste his time on spamming them & therefore ignoring the main attack spell which is SF, as they're non spammable. The same goes for Liquid Flame as it recharges in 15 secs.

GOLE - See glowing gaze.

As you can see, this build utilizes a few attack skills, but doesn't hinder the spamming capability of SF, as once he's casted SH/TH, GOLE, FA & LF he can cast SF & GG to his heart's content until the other skills have recharged.

Hopefully Vekk will use this build well & be able to maintain energy with it. Oh and I didn't give him any protection skills as my MM already has Aegis & PS on his bar, and with a protection monk plus a Curses necro with Rit secondary (which I'm going to design the build for next) the team should have enough defense. IMO.

Anyway, what do YOU guys think?

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

22 Mar 2008 at 14:59 - 51

Wait, whufc89, are u running the same hero concept all the time?? Omg...

Btw, SF isnt good imo, doesnt deal any significant damage in PvE compared to, say, SH Nuker, u are also an Ele so AR/SW combo is pointless, so I would recomment u running SH Nuker yourself and taking another hero with [skill]Deep Freeze[/skill] and generaly the same bar, also take a non-minion bomber MM cuz u wont have much necros anyway so the only thing u would need is a powerful enough minion wall and take a Hybrid onk hero Heal+Prot for heals, u can aso take blood ritual to give your monk some energy if he needs it.

~Super Igor

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

22 Mar 2008 at 15:31 - 52

[skill]Savannah Heat[/skill][skill]Searing Heat[/skill][skill]Teinai's Heat[/skill][skill]Mark Of Rodgort[/skill][skill]Glyph Of Sacrifice[/skill][skill]Meteor Shower[/skill][skill]Fire Attunement[/skill][skill]Blood Ritual[/skill]
[skill]Deep Freeze[/skill][skill]Searing Flames[/skill][skill]Searing Heat[/skill][skill]Teinai's Heat[/skill][skill]Glowing Gaze[/skill][skill]Glyph Of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Fire Attunement[/skill][skill]Flesh Of My Flesh[/skill]
[skill]Order of Undeath[/skill][skill]Animate Vampiric Horror[/skill][skill]Animate Shambling Horror[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Fiend[/skill][skill]Death Nova[/skill][skill]Blood Of The Master[/skill][skill]Heal Area[/skill][skill]Signet Of Lost Souls[/skill]
[skill]Reversal Of Fortune[/skill][skill]Light Of Deliverance[/skill][skill]Dwayna's Kiss[/skill][skill]Glyph Of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Protective Spirit[/skill][skill]Aegis[/skill][skill]Dismiss Condition[/skill][skill]Remove Hex[/skill]

Looks very classic and effective, good synergy, the monk can also have patient spirit and cure hex but I didnt put them on the bar cuz they dont appear as skill cards and dont look so pretty. >.<

LoD is still viable after nerf sonsidering u would have a pair of henchies with woh anyway.

~Super Igor

whufc89

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2007

22 Mar 2008 at 15:35 - 53

Sorry but I've made my mind up now & I'm sticking with the SF ele, MM bomber & Curses necro as my new heroes. It's just too much hassle to get different opinions of what to use & what not to use from every single person & having to change what I previously felt was working fine for me, just because one person says it's bad.

I appreciate everyone's help, but like I said, I'm sticking with my final choice now. I'm sure you can appreciate where I'm coming from. I mean, you get a bunch of people saying "yeah a SF bar is a brilliant build to use for PvE" and then somebody else comes along and says "nah it's crap" etc etc.

Anyway, I have one last question before this thread can be closed or whatever... On the Jagged Bones description it says that jagged horrors cause bleeding with their attacks, but how long does the bleeding last?

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

22 Mar 2008 at 15:43 - 54

a lot

/12 chars

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

22 Mar 2008 at 15:56 - 55

Quote:

Originally Posted by whufc89

I appreciate everyone's help, but like I said, I'm sticking with my final choice now. I'm sure you can appreciate where I'm coming from. I mean, you get a bunch of people saying "yeah a SF bar is a brilliant build to use for PvE" and then somebody else comes along and says "nah it's crap" etc etc. That's kinda the way it should be.
You were given a few alternatives and you made the decision what you want to run.
Try it out - play around with it a bit - and if you feel there should be more to it - experiment (now that you have a few general pointers) - or ask again.
But all in all you should be pretty set.
Sure thins will go wrong - but hey - you live to learn.
Good luck!

Coloneh

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

D/W

22 Mar 2008 at 16:08 - 56

Quote:

Originally Posted by whufc89

Thank you very much. I've decided that my 3 heros are going to be an ele, a Minion Master and a Curses Necro with SW + AR im not bothering to read all of this, so ill just post what i would use for those three.

[skill]jagged bones[/skill][skill]animate bone minions[/skill][skill]animate shambling horror[/skill][skill]death nova[/skill][skill]blood of the master[/skill][skill]aegis[/skill][skill]signet of lost souls[/skill][skill]resurrection chant[/skill]

[skill]Spiteful Spirit[/skill][skill]Splinter Weapon[/skill][skill]Ancestors' Rage[/skill][skill]Barbs[/skill][skill]Enfeebling Blood[/skill]-optional-[skill]signet of lost souls[/skill][skill]death pact signet[/skill]

[skill]Elemental Attunement[/skill][skill]Earth Attunement[/skill][skill]Ward Against Melee[/skill][skill]Ward Against Elements[/skill][skill]Eruption[/skill][skill]aegis[/skill][skill]Extinguish[/skill][skill]Resurrection Chant[/skill]

bluemoonxia

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2007

R/Rt

22 Mar 2008 at 16:16 - 57

Coloneh

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

D/W

22 Mar 2008 at 16:31 - 58

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluemoonxia

Do NOT use Death Nova.

So many people put it on because it is a part of the 3N build they copied from Wiki. And it looks good on paper. But if you ever pay attention to what mm bomber is doing, you will see as soon he get 8-10 minions, he is busy casting death nova. It put him lag behind the group most of the time. Your minion should be up front to tank for your members, NOT lag behind the group most of the time. You might just take a henchman,--that could be more helpful. you sir are an idiot. your heroes do not lead the group, tell them what to do. direct their movements and disable skills. heroes are godly at casting death nova at the right time and spreading it all over the place.

DarkSpirit

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

Redmond

22 Mar 2008 at 17:00 - 59

Quote:

Originally Posted by whufc89

Sorry but I've made my mind up now & I'm sticking with the SF ele, MM bomber & Curses necro as my new heroes.

Good call.

Although you should have a backup where the SF hero is concerned since some monsters are resistant to fire and don't burn, for example, Destroyers. Also what to do in places that do not have that many corpses? It is good to always have some backup plan for different situations and when you are against monsters that are designed to counter your normal build.

Also try to take henchies to fill in the gaps in your build, if you can. For example, if I dont have interrupts on my heroes, I would take Zho, the interrupt hench along. Play around and try things out to fit your own style. Good luck!

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluemoonxia

Do NOT use Death Nova.

So many people put it on because it is a part of the 3N build they copied from Wiki. And it looks good on paper. But if you ever pay attention to what mm bomber is doing, you will see as soon he get 8-10 minions, he is busy casting death nova. It put him lag behind the group most of the time. Your minion should be up front to tank for your members, NOT lag behind the group most of the time. You might just take a henchman,--that could be more helpful. Just flag your MM in front if that bothers you. A bit of a hassel but some people dont mind that. Not a big deal IMO.

bluemoonxia

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2007

R/Rt

22 Mar 2008 at 17:07 - 60

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

you sir are an idiot. your heroes do not lead the group, tell them what to do. direct their movements and disable skills. heroes are godly at casting death nova at the right time and spreading it all over the place. Who said the heroes lead the group? lol
Are you still in sleep or what?

And no they do not use it at the right time. And when the group move forward, the mm always spend time to cast death nova, that make him far behind the group.

Now take the word idiot back, and put in your mouth now.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

22 Mar 2008 at 17:14 - 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluemoonxia

Do NOT use Death Nova.

So many people put it on because it is a part of the 3N build they copied from Wiki. And it looks good on paper. But if you ever pay attention to what mm bomber is doing, you will see as soon he get 8-10 minions, he is busy casting death nova. It put him lag behind the group most of the time. Your minion should be up front to tank for your members, NOT lag behind the group most of the time. You might just take a henchman,--that could be more helpful. Errr...what?
Death Nova is used because A. Minions die quickly. B. It's armour-ignoring damage and poison.
Just because a skill is on Wiki doesn't mean it shouldn't be used.

whufc89

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2007

22 Mar 2008 at 17:26 - 62

Darkspirit:

I agree with you about the backup. At the start of this thread I was all for having just THREE particular heroes that I'd use everywhere I go, but having read people's suggestions etc I've decided to kit out some real decent heroes now to deal with different situations. For example, I now have an MM, a mesmer interrupter, a ranger interrupter, a curses necro, a SF ele, general melee heroes, protection heroes & healer heroes all ready to go for when the situation calls for it.

Oh and bluemoon I see where you're coming from regarding the MM always lagging behind the group now that he has Death Nova on his bar whereas before he was always either next to me with his minions or just a little behind, although for the short time I've used his new bar it hasn't presented itself to be a problem... Yet

bluemoonxia

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2007

R/Rt

22 Mar 2008 at 17:34 - 63

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

Errr...what?
Death Nova is used because A. Minions die quickly. B. It's armour-ignoring damage and poison.
Just because a skill is on Wiki doesn't mean it shouldn't be used. Only if you want to spend time wait for him or flag him. Sometime during vq, group moves fast, but that mm bomber always lag behind the group. It's not rare that by the time your 7 members finished a group, your mm bomber just arrived and did nothing in battle.

Amy Awien

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

22 Mar 2008 at 17:34 - 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluemoonxia

And no they do not use it at the right time. And when the group move forward, the mm always spend time to cast death nova, that make him far behind the group. Disable his Death Nova while you are traveling, then enable it just before battle, when you are placing your H&H. That is - I think - what he meant by 'leading', as in commanding, directing. DN is a 100 HP AoE damage and 15 second AoE posion (another 120 HP), not something to pass by.

DarkFlame

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2005

Ascalon

22 Mar 2008 at 17:35 - 65

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

The concept of a minion bomber is different from standard MM - you want to get the maximum number of minions per body so you can put nova on them and blow things up everywhere. And on that note, I'd suggest dropping [skill]Aegis[/skill] for [skill]Dark Bond[/skill]. Putting that much into Prot just for one skill isn't good imo. Pump the rest of the point back into SR and whatever's left in Blood(Bond doesn't really need any points in it).

And ignore bluemoonxia. People put Nova on Nerco heroes because it works, not because its part of Sabway. Besides, MM bombers are again different from MMs in that those minions are not meant to tank, but rush into a gathered mob and die. The only tanks that do that are your stereotyped wammos and the only things they blow up are the tempers on your monks.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

22 Mar 2008 at 17:38 - 66

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluemoonxia

Only if you want to spend time wait for him or flag him. Sometime during vq, group moves fast, but that mm bomber always lag behind the group. It's not rare that by the time your 7 members finished a group, your mm bomber just arrived and did nothing in battle. Yeah, I bet that 2 seconds of selecting a flag, or even disabling that skill could be soooooo painful....

bluemoonxia

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2007

R/Rt

22 Mar 2008 at 17:43 - 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Disable his Death Nova while you are traveling, then enable it just before battle, when you are placing your H&H. That is - I think - what he meant by 'leading', as in commanding, directing. DN is a 100 HP AoE damage and 15 second AoE posion (another 120 HP), not something to pass by. You can always micro your heroes. But if you can get it done without micro all the way, why not? I can live without it for most vq and HM dungeons, so just don't like to have that trouble.

whufc89

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2007

22 Mar 2008 at 18:36 - 68

Hey guys you've all been a brilliant help so far and I can't thank you enough, this has turned my whole way of thinking (team wise) around & for the better.

My only problem now though is that with just 2 monk henchies (and having them focus on healing minions a lot of the time instead of the actual party members) my team's survivability is still not perfect. Granted, it's 100x better than what it was before this thread was made & my heroes' builds were improved, but let's say for example I was to come up against a group of ele's all of which had meteor (hydras in crystal desert HM) they could easily wipe my party within seconds if I'm not careful. The first meteor would hit and the team's health would go down by around a third, the hench would then get "confused" and start randomly healing all over the place including minions missing important worthwhile heals such as a party member about to die, and by the time the 2nd meteor hit plus a fireball we'd all be dead, or most of us anyway.

It's for this reason that I'm actually considering using one of Sab's N/RT bars (3rd & 4th ones down - http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...3&postcount=2). I said I wasn't going to use Sab's exact build and I haven't. If you could see my Curses & MM builds I feel that IMO they're superior to sab's versions, for ME anyway, maybe not for everyone else.

If I was to use Sab's N/RT healer hero in place of the SF ele hero, do you think this would be unnecessary? Because basically I'd have 2 healers (The N/RT healer & Mhenlo - Hench) & a protector (Lina - Hench) with this team setup. The healers being the N/RT & healer hench and the protection obviously being the protection hench. Numerous people believe having more than 2 healers/protectors is just overkill and a waste of a H/H slot. Do you think it'd be more beneficial to keep the SF ele in instead of dropping him & replacing him with the N/RT sab bar?

And last of all, which would you say would be a better choice out of the two N/RT Sab healer builds (shown in the link above)? The Icy Veins version or the Weapon Of Remedy version? I was thinking the Icy Veins version would serve me better as it has some very nice damage & brilliant healing, so it could provide support to the team offensively & defensively. The only problem I see with it though, is the fact that it has TWO item holding spells. Seeing as I've never played a ritualist myself & don't know how a hero would handle having two item holding spells on his bar, I'm not sure which build would be the better choice so I could really do with some help in this matter.

Thanks.

Terraban

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2007

22 Mar 2008 at 18:55 - 69

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluemoonxia

Who said the heroes lead the group? lol
Are you still in sleep or what?

And no they do not use it at the right time. And when the group move forward, the mm always spend time to cast death nova, that make him far behind the group.

Now take the word idiot back, and put in your mouth now. I really really hope that English is not your first language.

DarkSpirit

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

Redmond

22 Mar 2008 at 19:30 - 70

Quote:

Originally Posted by whufc89

My only problem now though is that with just 2 monk henchies (and having them focus on healing minions a lot of the time instead of the actual party members) my team's survivability is still not perfect. Granted, it's 100x better than what it was before this thread was made & my heroes' builds were improved, but let's say for example I was to come up against a group of ele's all of which had meteor (hydras in crystal desert HM) they could easily wipe my party within seconds if I'm not careful. The first meteor would hit and the team's health would go down by around a third, the hench would then get "confused" and start randomly healing all over the place including minions missing important worthwhile heals such as a party member about to die, and by the time the 2nd meteor hit plus a fireball we'd all be dead, or most of us anyway.

Here is where having backup builds would be useful. When facing a group of caster monsters like those, interrupts become alot more important and Sab's build is especially weak in that aspect as it doesn't have a hero interrupt. Now in all fairness, depending on where you are, you can bring an interrupt hench. Or you can replace one of your heroes or even add interrupts into their skill bars as an alternative buid.

Quote: It's for this reason that I'm actually considering using one of Sab's N/RT bars (3rd & 4th ones down - http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...3&postcount=2). I said I wasn't going to use Sab's exact build and I haven't. If you could see my Curses & MM builds I feel that IMO they're superior to sab's versions, for ME anyway, maybe not for everyone else.

If I was to use Sab's N/RT healer hero in place of the SF ele hero, do you think this would be unnecessary? Because basically I'd have 2 healers (The N/RT healer & Mhenlo - Hench) & a protector (Lina - Hench) with this team setup. The healers being the N/RT & healer hench and the protection obviously being the protection hench. Numerous people believe having more than 2 healers/protectors is just overkill and a waste of a H/H slot. Do you think it'd be more beneficial to keep the SF ele in instead of dropping him & replacing him with the N/RT sab bar? I am one of those people who think that having more than 2 healers is generally an overkill.

If I use Sab's exact build, I would only bring Mhenlo (or even no additional healer) as an additional healer since there is already a N/Rt hero healer.

Quote:

And last of all, which would you say would be a better choice out of the two N/RT Sab healer builds (shown in the link above)? The Icy Veins version or the Weapon Of Remedy version? I was thinking the Icy Veins version would serve me better as it has some very nice damage & brilliant healing, so it could provide support to the team offensively & defensively. The only problem I see with it though, is the fact that it has TWO item holding spells. Seeing as I've never played a ritualist myself & don't know how a hero would handle having two item holding spells on his bar, I'm not sure which build would be the better choice so I could really do with some help in this matter.

Thanks. I prefer the top version and I think it is the "more default" choice from Sab. The lower version is a variant for some people who may prefer more damage. Note that the lower version also sacrifices blocking and hex removal for more damage.

Yes the 2 item spells are alittle wierd, but I dont think it is that problematic since Li Ming is most useful when it is dropped so I presume Kaolai would be held most of the time (although I haven't tried the lower variant build). Even Kaolai gives a decent party heal when it is dropped.

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

22 Mar 2008 at 20:21 - 71

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkFlame

And on that note, I'd suggest dropping [skill]Aegis[/skill] for [skill]Dark Bond[/skill]. Putting that much into Prot just for one skill isn't good imo. Pump the rest of the point back into SR and whatever's left in Blood(Bond doesn't really need any points in it). It's Aegis.
50% block for earshot guys for 9 secs.
It's worth it.
(Although personally instead of Rez I'd take PS - but even without it -> Aegis pretty much anytime over DB.)

whufc89

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2007

23 Mar 2008 at 12:31 - 72

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

I prefer the top version and I think it is the "more default" choice from Sab. The lower version is a variant for some people who may prefer more damage. Note that the lower version also sacrifices blocking and hex removal for more damage. The top version doesn't have any hex removal either though, which I found weird about Sab's Builds. Supposedly Sabway is one of the best if not THE best Hero lineup for general PvE including HM, but it doesn't even have any Hex Removal skills whatsoever

EDIT: Cleared this up in the following thread - http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...=1#post3787726 (See post 16)

Burst Cancel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2006

Domain of Broken Game Mechanics

23 Mar 2008 at 21:46 - 73

Nova is the #1 or #2 reason to even run a minion bomber, so I don't understand wtf you guys are on about.

You run Aegis on whoever can take it - calling it 'just one skill' really misses the extent of Aegis's effectiveness. The MB doesn't need 13 SR or Dark Bond, so putting 9~10 in prot and slapping Aegis on the bar doesn't require much sacrifice.

whufc89

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2007

23 Mar 2008 at 22:05 - 74

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

Antithesis

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

BrisneyLand

Sphincter Says [What]

23 Mar 2008 at 22:35 - 75

This thread does little but prove anything works in Normal Mode. The simple fact is 3 x Searing Flamers using the build Zinger posted will steamroll almost everything in NM.

whufc89, you're right in selecting an MM and a SF - in NM they're easily the strongest heroes you can take. But your builds are overly complicated, will tank on energy and use skills that heroes are either crap at using or are a waste of time when they should spam better skills. Keep it simple - 4 slots will build an excellent MM, 4 slots will build an excellent AoE Fire ele, 4 slots will build a Healer....so use the remaining 4 slots available on most hero bars for greater utility.

For example, the traditional Searing Flames bar is part AoE attack, part interrupter (mostly for energy management). The objective is to spam SF as much as possible so make it the only attack on the bar. The Mind Blast / Rodgort's Invocation bar does not need any other attacks to ensure they use MB+RI as much as possible, the rest of the bar can be filled with Earth wards or Channeling or Restoration. The Jagged Bones MM protects the party with a meatshield, deals AoE damage on their death and has room for Healing Prayers or Protection Prayers or Channeling or Restoration. A Word of Healing monk has both Healing and Protection, Sab's N/Rt has both Channeling and Restoration...about the only single-line bar you need a Curses Necro, and that's just to make sure they actually hit something.

Using this strategy you end up with hybrid characters that offer far more to a team build than those with no utility. This is much more important in HM where most of the builds in this thread will fail. It's HM where Sabway and Rachtoh's paragons really shine because of their efficient skillbars, great defense, unlimited energy engines and armour ignoring damage.

whufc89

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2007

23 Mar 2008 at 22:47 - 76

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

This thread does little but prove anything works in Normal Mode. The simple fact is 3 x Searing Flamers using the build Zinger posted will steamroll almost everything in NM. If you need more defense, drop one SF for a Paragon with "They're on Fire!" - that has far greater synergy than dropping a Fire ele into a MM-based team.

whufc89, your builds are overly complicated and/or use skills that heroes are crap at using. Keep it simple - 4 slots will build an excellent MM, 4 slots with build an excellent AoE Fire ele, 4 slots will build a Healer....so use the remaining 4 slots available on most hero bars for greater utility.

For example, the traditional Searing Flames bar is part AoE attack, part interrupter (mostly for energy management). The objective is to spam SF as much as possible so make it the only attack on the bar. The Mind Blast / Rodgort's Invocation bar should not have any other attacks to ensure they use MB+RI as much as possible, the rest of the bar can be filled with Earth wards or Channeling or Restoration. The Jagged Bones MM protects the party with a meatshield, deals AoE damage on their death and has room for Healing Prayers or Protection Prayers or Channeling or Restoration. A Word of Healing monk has both Healing and Protection, Sab's N/Rt has both Channeling and Restoration...about the only single-line bar you need a Curses Necro, and that's just to make sure they actually hit something.

Using this strategy you end up with hybrid characters that offer far more to a team build than those with no utility. This is much more important in HM where most of the builds in this thread will fail. It's HM where Sabway and Rachtoh's paragons really shine because of their efficient skillbars, great defense, unlimited energy engines and armour ignoring damage.

And on that note here's my new & revised builds. I now realise the builds I first posted were absolutely /fail & something needed to be done about them if I was going to survive in HM at all.

Well I've finally made my hero builds, and hopefully there's nothing that needs changing with them. They look like Sabway, but they are actually fairly different if you compare them (go here for the original sabway - http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...3&postcount=2). I feel my modified builds will suit my play style better. I said I wasn't going to use sabway, but after looking at the builds for a few days now & modifying different aspects to suit me better, I feel what I've come up with now is decent. Anyway, I'd appreciate it if you guys could take a look at them & let me know what you think, thanks.

Here they are:

Quote:

Livia - N/RT:

[skill]weapon of remedy[/skill][skill]splinter weapon[/skill][skill]mend body and soul[/skill][skill]spirit light[/skill][skill]spirit transfer[/skill][skill]weapon of warding[/skill][skill]life[/skill][skill]death pact signet[/skill]

Soul Reaping - 12 (8+1+3)

Restoration Magic - 12

Channeling Magic - 10

Quote:

Master Of Whispers:

[skill]jagged bones[/skill][skill]animate bone minions[/skill][skill]death nova[/skill][skill]blood of the master[/skill][skill]protective spirit[/skill][skill]aegis[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

Soul Reaping - 9

Death Magic - 16 (12+1+3)

Protection Prayers - 9

Quote: