If they kept the skills separate this is how it would go.
Skill A is buffed because it under used.
Skill A now totally rapes everything.
PvE players still have old Skill A version, doesn't rape anything.
PvE players moan, they want the raping version of Skill A.
It just wouldn't work. It would be a pain in the ass for the people who actually play both PvE and PvP having to remember to different versions of each skill.
Keep it the way it is.
Skill Updates: Should they keep PvE and PvP skill updates segregated?
X Ice Man X
Limu Tolkki
Skill nerfed because of pvp = skill useless in pve. How ever doesnt matter, just use other skills, pve doesnt need skill. But in gw2 i'd like to some sort of solution.
Proff
No, pvp and pve are parts of the same game and players from both sides need to adapt and learn how to use the skills they're given.
Arkantos
Don't forget that if this did happen, then PvPers would want skills balanced for TA, HA, and GvG separately, seeing as they're all very different, just like general PvP and PvE are.
Bowstring Badass
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Originally Posted by Arkantos
Don't forget that if this did happen, then PvPers would want skills balanced for TA, HA, and GvG separately, seeing as they're all very different, just like general PvP and PvE are.
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Stockholm
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Originally Posted by Proff
No, pvp and pve are parts of the same game and players from both sides need to adapt and learn how to use the skills they're given.
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Oleg
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Originally Posted by R.Shayne
PvE only and don't mind the skill updates, just learn to roll with it. What I do mind is the Henchmen skill bars are rarely updated after we have a pvp skill change.
/Signed I would still rather see the introduction of more pve skills only - give some life back to the paragon. |
Allowing top GvG guilds to determine the skill bars of henchies makes no sense. Having a PvP guild set the skill bar for a PvE henchie wouldn't be overly helpful.
There are 8 gazillion combinations of skills out there. Why would you want the same skill set all the time? Seperating PvP and PvE skills would create more problems than it would solve.
Complaining about having to change your skills in PvE is laughable. Shall we start a petition to change GW:EN because Nukers are almost useless there? Adapt or die, but don't go on and on about it.
bhavv
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Originally Posted by Proff
No, pvp and pve are parts of the same game and players from both sides need to adapt and learn how to use the skills they're given.
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There was absolutely nothing wrong with these skills, except perhaps PVP teams being unable to adapt to counter them and instead just crying for nerfs.
Div
What a retarded idea. If that's the case PvE would rarely get any changes. Which would mean trash like power shot and sundering attack would never even be buffed in the first place to deserve a minor nerf later on.
And plus, there has to be someone to blame it on when your shit gets nerfed. If PvE and PvP were separate people wouldn't be able to QQ.
And plus, there has to be someone to blame it on when your shit gets nerfed. If PvE and PvP were separate people wouldn't be able to QQ.
Stockholm
The problem is that a very SMALL minority (about 200 players) dictat what nerfs and buffs should be done.
The Dev's (Izzy) should not be allowed any direct contact with the players, any changes made should be based on their own observasions of the game.
Just because guild 1 got pawnd by guild 312, that is not a reson to nerf skills.
You don't see changes to NFL rules just because the top team gets beat, do you.
The Dev's (Izzy) should not be allowed any direct contact with the players, any changes made should be based on their own observasions of the game.
Just because guild 1 got pawnd by guild 312, that is not a reson to nerf skills.
You don't see changes to NFL rules just because the top team gets beat, do you.
HawkofStorms
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Originally Posted by Stockholm
The problem is that a very SMALL minority (about 200 players) dictat what nerfs and buffs should be done.
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/ignored
Stockholm
Ignorence is bliss
bhavv
Well the people at Anet responsible for skill balance (Izzy) are terrible at it. All they do is ridiculously buff unused spells, then nerf them again after realising they cocked up. And the balance between elite skills is just a joke. All elite skills should be equally usefull, but we have to use the same few all the time because the majority just arent as good or are completely useless - lol Amnity lol. Anet have managed to make a brilliant game, but their skill balancing is just atrocious. Its on par with a bunch of lab monkeys randomly pushing buttons.
Risus
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Originally Posted by Eldin
I would like them to keep them separate - many skills met their unjust nerfage due to PvP.
[skill]Penetrating Attack[/skill] [skill]"I Will Avenge You!"[/skill] [skill]Energizing Wind[/skill] It'd be a big headache though, I doubt they will ever do it. |
not PvP
Sab
That wouldn't stop the whining. PvErs themselves are split on issues like Ursan and consumables - some hate it, others think that they're god's gift to GW as overpowered crap compensates for how bad they are.
Those bad players who don't understand skill balancing are just going to whine at PvPers or "elitist" PvErs or whoever's pushing for any balance changes. Splitting PvE and PvP won't change a thing about that.
Those bad players who don't understand skill balancing are just going to whine at PvPers or "elitist" PvErs or whoever's pushing for any balance changes. Splitting PvE and PvP won't change a thing about that.
tehshadowninjar
Personally, I propose they stop the damned nerfs. Who frickin' cares if it's balanced or not? Play the strongest side, you idiots. I liked GW before Assassin, Paragon, and Ranger (only good mainly for Expertise now)'s viability went from around 90% to 0.000000000000000000000000000001%. -.-
Scary Raebbit
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Originally Posted by bhavv
If this is the case then why cant PVP players adapt to the skills they are given instead of crying for nerfs? A lot of people had already adapted to using skills like LOD and WY, yet they had to be nerfed for PVP despite there already being counters to the skills and ways to shutdown monks and shouts (vocal minority + roaring winds anyone?)
There was absolutely nothing wrong with these skills, except perhaps PVP teams being unable to adapt to counter them and instead just crying for nerfs. |
HawkofStorms
What's great is, this is always the big idea/excuse proposed in every skill update thread. Yet, once its actually suggested, the popular support for this idea just isn't there.
It just makes me laugh so much. The masses of Guru don't know what they want. In skill balance threads, everybody goes "please seperate buffs/nerfs, stoping letting PvP/PvE ruin PvE/PvP."
ROTFLMAO
The irony kills me.
It just makes me laugh so much. The masses of Guru don't know what they want. In skill balance threads, everybody goes "please seperate buffs/nerfs, stoping letting PvP/PvE ruin PvE/PvP."
ROTFLMAO
The irony kills me.
Giga_Gaia
It's too late to fix the mess that is GW balance anyway. Let's just hope that Anet learns from their mistakes (lol) and does a better job of handling this situation in GW2.
FoxBat
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Originally Posted by Risus
Energizing Wind nerf was for the UW solo speed trappers
not PvP |
The last handful of nerfs have been toning back buffs that sure as heck weren't done for the PvE crowd. Just think if the skill sets were separated there.
Zamochit
Any 'adjustments' made to skills for the benefit of the PvP community, really shouldnt have that much of an impact on the PvE community tbh.
The PvE only skills more than compensate for any 'nerfs' made to other skills, just adapt and move on, it keeps our builds fresh anyway.
The PvE only skills more than compensate for any 'nerfs' made to other skills, just adapt and move on, it keeps our builds fresh anyway.
Proff
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Originally Posted by bhavv
If this is the case then why cant PVP players adapt to the skills they are given instead of crying for nerfs? A lot of people had already adapted to using skills like LOD and WY, yet they had to be nerfed for PVP despite there already being counters to the skills and ways to shutdown monks and shouts (vocal minority + roaring winds anyone?)
There was absolutely nothing wrong with these skills, except perhaps PVP teams being unable to adapt to counter them and instead just crying for nerfs. |
Separating pve and pvp would just be retard-proofing GW, where anyone can just throw some skills together and call it a skill bar (sometimes even forgetting elites). Seriously some players feel it's a waste to pay that one extra plat to have a decent elite on their bar or think that after playing GW for a month their way of playing is amazing cause they just beat prophecies in NM.
It's a game, in easy mode you can get away with running shitty builds but you can't expect to beat the harder dungeons or HM with bars that just don't work and that's not a valid reason to start QQ over here.
Arduin
Seperating PvP-skills from PvE is way too complicated for now. If this system will be changed, I bet it will only be in GW2.
Crom The Pale
There is no way at present to seperate them, but they really need to be for GW2.
While its been said before I will say it once again, you can't balance a skill so that it works the same when your playing against a live person that has your equal lvl, equal number of attribute points/HP/energy and the same skill set to choose from AND balance it for a lvl 30 monster with extra HP/Energy/Attribute points and a bonus of half hex/conditions or deals Double Damage.
GW2 must have a better division of PvE and PvP or it will die a fast death in my honest oppinion.
While its been said before I will say it once again, you can't balance a skill so that it works the same when your playing against a live person that has your equal lvl, equal number of attribute points/HP/energy and the same skill set to choose from AND balance it for a lvl 30 monster with extra HP/Energy/Attribute points and a bonus of half hex/conditions or deals Double Damage.
GW2 must have a better division of PvE and PvP or it will die a fast death in my honest oppinion.
Isileth
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Originally Posted by Crom The Pale
While its been said before I will say it once again, you can't balance a skill so that it works the same when your playing against a live person that has your equal lvl, equal number of attribute points/HP/energy and the same skill set to choose from AND balance it for a lvl 30 monster with extra HP/Energy/Attribute points and a bonus of half hex/conditions or deals Double Damage.
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And yet that monster is still weaker than a standard player. Thats why teams can slaughter big groups of higher level AI in a very short time, yet against another good team of players it can take a long time.
The AI boosts are just an attempt to make them half challenging, they are by no means more powerful and you deffinately dont need more powerful skills to face them.
If its too powerful v a player than its damn sure going to be too powerful v AI.
Tyla
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Originally Posted by Risus
Energizing Wind nerf was for the UW solo speed trappers
not PvP |
The nerf was mainly effecting that Bunnyway shit.
In the process, it also hit Speed Trapping.
Think it hit something else aswell...
Kanyatta
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Originally Posted by bhavv
why cant PVP players adapt to the skills they are given instead of crying for nerfs?
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Maybe instead of whining about skill updates in PvE you could learn to adapt?
Arkantos
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Originally Posted by tehshadowninjar
Personally, I propose they stop the damned nerfs. Who frickin' cares if it's balanced or not? Play the strongest side, you idiots. I liked GW before Assassin, Paragon, and Ranger (only good mainly for Expertise now)'s viability went from around 90% to 0.000000000000000000000000000001%. -.-
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Quote:
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If this is the case then why cant PVP players adapt to the skills they are given instead of crying for nerfs? A lot of people had already adapted to using skills like LOD and WY, yet they had to be nerfed for PVP despite there already being counters to the skills and ways to shutdown monks and shouts (vocal minority + roaring winds anyone?) There was absolutely nothing wrong with these skills, except perhaps PVP teams being unable to adapt to counter them and instead just crying for nerfs. |
Just because an overpowered build can be countered doesn't mean it shouldn't be nerfed. People don't complain because they're too lazy to adapt, they complain because something is overpowered and it should be changed to be more balanced.
Lest121
/Signed
I have have nothing else to say because i hate PvPers, not gonna type up my hate just gonna leave it at that, PvP and PvE are 2 different aspects of GW so IMO they need to have they own Identity.
I have have nothing else to say because i hate PvPers, not gonna type up my hate just gonna leave it at that, PvP and PvE are 2 different aspects of GW so IMO they need to have they own Identity.
Stockholm
I can't understand what the PvP side would have against a split, you think the PvE part is crap anyway. Or are you afraid that A-Net will realise what a small part of the game the PvP side is?
Don't bite the hand that feeds you.
Don't bite the hand that feeds you.
Arkantos
A lot of PvPers PvE. There's a difference between crap and very easy.
ANet don't have to realize anything. Skills are balanced around PvP, ANet rewards PvP players with real life items, PvP players get multiple types of PvP. All PvE gets is repetitive content and bug fixes. I think it's clear that ANet could care less about the size of the PvP community.
ANet don't have to realize anything. Skills are balanced around PvP, ANet rewards PvP players with real life items, PvP players get multiple types of PvP. All PvE gets is repetitive content and bug fixes. I think it's clear that ANet could care less about the size of the PvP community.
Gun Pierson
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Originally Posted by Savio
It's time for the weekly "split PvE and PVP" thread! Everyone loses except for the trolls!
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On topic: Some things will never change in GW1 and I have a strong feeling this is one of those things.
Angelina Collins
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Originally Posted by Kanyatta
You obviously have no knowledge of what IMBA is. In HA, it got to the point where it was damn near impossible to counter IWAY or ViMWAY with anything except for IWAY or ViMWAY. The reason LoD got hit, was because literally, every single frigging team had an LoD/Infuse bar, and it was all the same except for maybe 2 skills. It just got way to stale.
Maybe instead of whining about skill updates in PvE you could learn to adapt? |
As for adaptation of skills due to Balance, for me, I just use builds that I know PvP people will never use, so skill balance effects will not effect me, but when they do, I just play through it, because that same balance also makes the monster skills less effective as well, thus they become easier to kill.
Skill Balance is a double edge sword, as it makes PvP more viable, and builds fresher, it destroys PvE at the same time, by making monsters skills less effective and they don't get the opportunity to change skills like a player, thus our challenging areas become a cake walk. This hurts us, it makes the game for us boring. I like when I have a hard time to beat an area, makes me want to play. Only area's I can't stand are DOA, can't use hero's, and some players are jerks, that is why I do not PvP much.
D E C E P T I V E
Not Signed
The skills should keep the same description in pvp and pve, and even separating them will not end balancing issues. PvP crowds would still find skills to exploit and use to farm fame, or someone would see something that they just cant deal with and feel they were beat by skill choice and not "skill" (like a video game really takes an incredible amount of "skill" to play in the first place) and the moaning and groaning would continue. Whats that, my team is running a ranger spike and we are fighting a balanced team chaining aegis and shields up. Thats not fair, let me go cry to mummy Anet. See where im going.
PvE crowds will still find skills to exploit to farm loot in a way that someone will have a problem with for whatever reason.
Guild wars by design cant be balanced. It is a rock papaer scissors kind of game where ultimately the build with the greatest advantage wins as long as it is played perfectly which doesnt really take a whole lot of "real skill" to do, just a click of the mouse button on the right skill at the right time and a general understanding of what they are doing by everyone on the team.
I think the answer for the PvP crowd is really looking at ways to bring human error and team dynamics into the game in some way instead of just looking at only skill balance all of the time. Maybe by adding different environmental or team effects that could be gained through controlling different points on the map to GvG or HA sort of like hero battles. For example if Team A recognizes that Team B has an edge because of a defensive advantage that they cant kill through but a weak spike, controlling something like a health shrine may be enough to give them the edge pressure longer and enable them to get a kill. That is just one example that could be applied in lots of different ways. You could also have different types of shrines in addition to the flagstand.
The skills should keep the same description in pvp and pve, and even separating them will not end balancing issues. PvP crowds would still find skills to exploit and use to farm fame, or someone would see something that they just cant deal with and feel they were beat by skill choice and not "skill" (like a video game really takes an incredible amount of "skill" to play in the first place) and the moaning and groaning would continue. Whats that, my team is running a ranger spike and we are fighting a balanced team chaining aegis and shields up. Thats not fair, let me go cry to mummy Anet. See where im going.
PvE crowds will still find skills to exploit to farm loot in a way that someone will have a problem with for whatever reason.
Guild wars by design cant be balanced. It is a rock papaer scissors kind of game where ultimately the build with the greatest advantage wins as long as it is played perfectly which doesnt really take a whole lot of "real skill" to do, just a click of the mouse button on the right skill at the right time and a general understanding of what they are doing by everyone on the team.
I think the answer for the PvP crowd is really looking at ways to bring human error and team dynamics into the game in some way instead of just looking at only skill balance all of the time. Maybe by adding different environmental or team effects that could be gained through controlling different points on the map to GvG or HA sort of like hero battles. For example if Team A recognizes that Team B has an edge because of a defensive advantage that they cant kill through but a weak spike, controlling something like a health shrine may be enough to give them the edge pressure longer and enable them to get a kill. That is just one example that could be applied in lots of different ways. You could also have different types of shrines in addition to the flagstand.
I D E L E T E D I
/notsigned
There are people who PvE and PvP at the same time and playing the same bar all the time gets really boring. And no i wont change my bar to a subpar skillbar, i always will play the best bar out there. And i am glad Anet makes these updates to shake things up every once in a while.
AB got really boring when everyone and their Mother played SP sin, it got really boring when everyone played Eles.
GvG got really boring when every team had LoD on their monk bars.
HA got really boring when most teams you faced were IWAY or SWAY and now escapeway.
And its the same for PvE, Sabway is the PvE meta hero build. MindBlast eles were the meta for it on eles, dslash is on wars, and so on and so forth.
There are people who PvE and PvP at the same time and playing the same bar all the time gets really boring. And no i wont change my bar to a subpar skillbar, i always will play the best bar out there. And i am glad Anet makes these updates to shake things up every once in a while.
AB got really boring when everyone and their Mother played SP sin, it got really boring when everyone played Eles.
GvG got really boring when every team had LoD on their monk bars.
HA got really boring when most teams you faced were IWAY or SWAY and now escapeway.
And its the same for PvE, Sabway is the PvE meta hero build. MindBlast eles were the meta for it on eles, dslash is on wars, and so on and so forth.
Fear Me!
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Originally Posted by cellardweller
PvP balances keep PvE interesting. Stagnant skill bars leads to stagnant gameplay.
/not signed once more. |
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Originally Posted by Arkantos
No, they shouldn't.
PvErs need to learn how to adapt. We have every skill in the game and overpowered PvE skills. Stop getting mad because your powerful skill got nerfed and use another skill to replace it. As long as you don't suck at the game, there should be no problem. I mean seriously, no skill nerf should drastically affect you. There are over a thousand skills in the game, replace the skill that got nerfed. You'll still have the ability to easily roll the AI. |
Drakken Breathes Fire
I think they should remain the same.
There are pvp elements in pve, aren't there?
Why should we learn changes to two sets of the same skills?
'Okay, last week they buffed *skill name here* for pve, but in pvp it's stil crap.. so I'll use *skill name here* because it was recently buffed in pvp, but still crap in pve. Wait, why have I gone cross-eyed?'
It's too much bollocks.
There are pvp elements in pve, aren't there?
Why should we learn changes to two sets of the same skills?
'Okay, last week they buffed *skill name here* for pve, but in pvp it's stil crap.. so I'll use *skill name here* because it was recently buffed in pvp, but still crap in pve. Wait, why have I gone cross-eyed?'
It's too much bollocks.
Molock
Its not like we need normal skills in PvE anymore...
Don't get me wrong.. I hate Ursan.
On a more serious note, I don't think the skills should be seperated into PvE version vs. PvP version.
Don't get me wrong.. I hate Ursan.
On a more serious note, I don't think the skills should be seperated into PvE version vs. PvP version.
RiKio
Yes.
But remove PvE skills and Consumables.
But remove PvE skills and Consumables.
Red Sand
/notsigned due to lack of good reason to separate them.
Plenty of skills for you to use the ones you like, discard the one's you don't.
Inevitably, they'll make new ones that you'll like better.
Plenty of skills for you to use the ones you like, discard the one's you don't.
Inevitably, they'll make new ones that you'll like better.