For heroes in general PvE what would you say is the better choice as a res - [skill]death pact signet[/skill] or [skill]resurrection signet[/skill]?
DPS Pros:
- Can revive party members at full health & energy.
- Can be used every 8 seconds.
- Fast cast compared to other res skills.
DPS Cons:
- If resurrected ally dies within 120 secs so do you, so if you're in the middle of a big fight & your allies are prone to dying easily during this fight, it's risky to use this skill.
Res Signet Pros:
- Can revive party members at full health & 25% energy
- Fast cast compared to other res skills.
- No risk of dying like there is with DPS.
Res Signet Cons:
- Can only be used once until a moral boost is gained.
Death Pact Signet Vs Res Signet In PvE?
whufc89
jonnieboi05
neither. ressurection chant > one-time use sigs and a skill that ties a players fate to some-1 else. 
whufc89
Quote:
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Originally Posted by JonnieBoi05
neither. ressurection chant > one-time use sigs and a skill that ties a players fate to some-1 else.
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Also, with 0 or just a few points in Healing Prayers, they would be resurrected with absolute meh energy 
Although I'm not sure if that really matters, providing they res out of battle.So you think for heroes in PvE, it'd be best to give them Res Chant? What about for heroes without monk secondary... Res Sig?
jonnieboi05
hmmm.... i run 2 eles and 1 monk as my heroes. monk is healing attribute and the ele's are half monk w/ aegis + reschant. aegis gives 9 seconds of block + they can chain it for 18. i run 15 fire, 9 energy storage, 9 prot, 3 and healing. it works just fine and the 6 seconds isn't an issue, imo. when i go through HM my party will never drop more than 1 person within' a fight (and even so that's pretty rare to happen).
and also, my healing monk uses holy haste. res chant + holy haste = 3 second cast for full health and 45% energy = gg.
and also, my healing monk uses holy haste. res chant + holy haste = 3 second cast for full health and 45% energy = gg.
whufc89
OK cool, thanks a lot!
Oh by the way, I feel cheeky asking but if you wouldn't mind taking a quick look at the following I'd really appreciate it - http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...0269413&page=3
If not, then no worries, it was worth a shot
jonnieboi05
np. i checked out the link you posted, and, for the first time in.. *adds up* .. 15 months i think i'll give a build out to the public. this is what i use when i used to run an mm (when they used to be super effective :P) in HM. enjoy?
[skill]animate bone minions[/skill][skill]jagged bones[/skill][skill]animate bone fiend[/skill][skill]death nova[/skill][skill]blood of the master[/skill][skill]verata's sacrifice[/skill][skill]dark bond[/skill][skill]resurrection chant[/skill]
death magic: 12+1+3 (16)
soul reaping: 10+1 (11)
blood magic: 6 (6)
healing prayers: 6 (6)
the above build worked 'very' nicely and provided an all-time 10 minion count whereever there is an exploitable corpse. but, if you can handle the micromanagent, then i would recommend turning off [skill]death nova[/skill] while running idle, and returning it back on when you're about to aggro a group of enemies (due to the obvious fact hero mm's like to straggle in the back, spamming their [skill]death nova[/skill]
but, alas, i havn't needed to use an MM since i finished HM elona (which was by god who knows just how long ago that was). mm's, imo, are completely obsolete and i find myself better off with what i currently run MUCH more effective.
[skill]animate bone minions[/skill][skill]jagged bones[/skill][skill]animate bone fiend[/skill][skill]death nova[/skill][skill]blood of the master[/skill][skill]verata's sacrifice[/skill][skill]dark bond[/skill][skill]resurrection chant[/skill]
death magic: 12+1+3 (16)
soul reaping: 10+1 (11)
blood magic: 6 (6)
healing prayers: 6 (6)
the above build worked 'very' nicely and provided an all-time 10 minion count whereever there is an exploitable corpse. but, if you can handle the micromanagent, then i would recommend turning off [skill]death nova[/skill] while running idle, and returning it back on when you're about to aggro a group of enemies (due to the obvious fact hero mm's like to straggle in the back, spamming their [skill]death nova[/skill]
but, alas, i havn't needed to use an MM since i finished HM elona (which was by god who knows just how long ago that was). mm's, imo, are completely obsolete and i find myself better off with what i currently run MUCH more effective.
whufc89
Thank you very much!
knives
If you don't run a monk hero, then DPS > res sig unless your in a map/mission w/ tons of morale boosts and/or bosses. DPS does not give the user DP if you die b/c of its condition btw. I still prefer DPS over res chant b/c its a fast cast, and can't be interrupted by interrupts targeting spells. And w/ DPS you can use your judgment whether or not to res someone or let the monk hench do it at the end of the battle. The only qualms I have about DPS is it can cause chain deaths, resulting in a party wipe, and the more dp you get the less advantageous dps becomes.
jonnieboi05
i still preffer resurrection chant > death pact either way.
whufc89
OK, finally what do you guys think about Signet Of Return at 0 leadership? Any good or not worth bringing?
jonnieboi05
bad. the recharge is unbelievably horrible and the health/energy benefit @ 0 = /uninstall. pass on this skill, bro. ^^
here, compair.
[skill]signet of return[/skill][skill]resurrection chant[/skill]
here, compair.
[skill]signet of return[/skill][skill]resurrection chant[/skill]
Snow Bunny
DPS. Without question.
whufc89
ahaha I lol'd at /uninstall.
Anyway, ya I see what you mean now, bad choice I guess
Anyway, ya I see what you mean now, bad choice I guess
Toffin
Well, personally I would take in the mm as a n/p with [skill]signet of return[/skill] with [skill]"we shall return!"[/skill].
Anytime I go out in hm where there are plenty of bodies I have two mm's with running these builds. I havent had an issue yet with them. Just equip them with command shields +10vs slashing and a spear with +5e +5def
[skill]jagged bones[/skill][skill]animate shambling horror[/skill][skill]animate bone minions[/skill][skill]dark bond[/skill][skill]putrid bile[/skill][skill]blood of the master[/skill][skill]"fall back!"[/skill][skill]signet of return[/skill]
16 - Death
10 - SR
9 - Command
[skill]jagged bones[/skill][skill]animate shambling horror[/skill][skill]animate bone minions[/skill][skill]dark bond[/skill][skill]death nova[/skill][skill]blood of the master[/skill][skill]"we shall return!"[/skill][skill]signet of return[/skill]
16 - Death
10 - SR
9 - Command
However you make your own descision on it. Im satisfied with my choice.
Anytime I go out in hm where there are plenty of bodies I have two mm's with running these builds. I havent had an issue yet with them. Just equip them with command shields +10vs slashing and a spear with +5e +5def
[skill]jagged bones[/skill][skill]animate shambling horror[/skill][skill]animate bone minions[/skill][skill]dark bond[/skill][skill]putrid bile[/skill][skill]blood of the master[/skill][skill]"fall back!"[/skill][skill]signet of return[/skill]
16 - Death
10 - SR
9 - Command
[skill]jagged bones[/skill][skill]animate shambling horror[/skill][skill]animate bone minions[/skill][skill]dark bond[/skill][skill]death nova[/skill][skill]blood of the master[/skill][skill]"we shall return!"[/skill][skill]signet of return[/skill]
16 - Death
10 - SR
9 - Command
However you make your own descision on it. Im satisfied with my choice.
jonnieboi05
toffin - but the additonal 5 second recharge still hurts either way.
whufc89
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Toffin
Well, personally I would take in the mm as a n/p with [skill]signet of return[/skill] with [skill]"we shall return!"[/skill].
Anytime I go out in hm where there are plenty of bodies I have two mm's with running these builds. I havent had an issue yet with them. Just equip them with command shields +10vs slashing and a spear with +5e +5def [skill]jagged bones[/skill][skill]animate shambling horror[/skill][skill]animate bone minions[/skill][skill]dark bond[/skill][skill]putrid bile[/skill][skill]blood of the master[/skill][skill]"fall back!"[/skill][skill]signet of return[/skill] 16 - Death 10 - SR 9 - Command [skill]jagged bones[/skill][skill]animate shambling horror[/skill][skill]animate bone minions[/skill][skill]dark bond[/skill][skill]death nova[/skill][skill]blood of the master[/skill][skill]"we shall return!"[/skill][skill]signet of return[/skill] 16 - Death 10 - SR 9 - Command However you make your own descision on it. Im satisfied with my choice. |
Toffin
Quote:
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Originally Posted by JonnieBoi05
toffin - but the additonal 5 second recharge still hurts either way.
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knives
DPS vs Res Chant
DPS
0 Energy
2 Sec Cast, 8 Recharge
Can cause chain deaths
RC
10 energy
6 sec cast, 15 recharge
In those 4 seconds extra you spent using RC + the 10 extra energy, you couldve done something MUCH more useful such as killing priority targets or healing another dying target. Though DPS may cause chain deaths, you should know to preprot the DPSed person so that they don't die again. You are also less vulnerable to interrupts due to cast time.
Also @ a 3 spec resto compared to a 3 spec res chant, lets say we have someone w/ a 35e pool. DPS will give you 11.2 energy back while RC will give you 11. I doubt most people run around pve w/ 35e (on casters anyway) so if its say 45e then DPS will give back 14.4e back. If you want to compare a 12 or 8 spec in each, DPS still gives you more energy with its only con being that it can cause chain deaths. RC might be better in giving more energy back to warriors, rangers, assasins, dervs, paras...but when does rezzing one of these characters really determine the outcome of the battle? (well..paragon may be the exception but then again, if a para dies its either that he/she is bad, or the monks are). The resurreciton skills are only really definitive in ressing casters (which have larger energy pools), mainly healers, where the amount of energy they res with really counts, and where DPS is > res chant.
DPS
0 Energy
2 Sec Cast, 8 Recharge
Can cause chain deaths
RC
10 energy
6 sec cast, 15 recharge
In those 4 seconds extra you spent using RC + the 10 extra energy, you couldve done something MUCH more useful such as killing priority targets or healing another dying target. Though DPS may cause chain deaths, you should know to preprot the DPSed person so that they don't die again. You are also less vulnerable to interrupts due to cast time.
Also @ a 3 spec resto compared to a 3 spec res chant, lets say we have someone w/ a 35e pool. DPS will give you 11.2 energy back while RC will give you 11. I doubt most people run around pve w/ 35e (on casters anyway) so if its say 45e then DPS will give back 14.4e back. If you want to compare a 12 or 8 spec in each, DPS still gives you more energy with its only con being that it can cause chain deaths. RC might be better in giving more energy back to warriors, rangers, assasins, dervs, paras...but when does rezzing one of these characters really determine the outcome of the battle? (well..paragon may be the exception but then again, if a para dies its either that he/she is bad, or the monks are). The resurreciton skills are only really definitive in ressing casters (which have larger energy pools), mainly healers, where the amount of energy they res with really counts, and where DPS is > res chant.
Avarre
Death Pact is absolutely amazing in PvE. It allows you to shrug off deaths much better than a res signet, and if you're taking chain deaths, it's not a res-skill problem.
Lykan
well lets see you have 3 heroes so why not just give one DPS and one res sig or res chant... simple
Shaz
DPS is the best res in PvE, provided your party isn't a total failure.
English Warrior
Death Pact Signet but then again i bring death nova :P
Stormlord Alex
Death Pact Signet, nothing else compares.
There's 2 situations where DPSig's effect comes in to play -
1) Something's gone horribly wrong - overaggro, monks outta energy, etc. - and you'll wipe anyway. You've just saved yourself 15% DP - a good thing.
2) Your team fails. You can use DPSig as an indicator to /ragequit
DPSig > all. /thread
There's 2 situations where DPSig's effect comes in to play -
1) Something's gone horribly wrong - overaggro, monks outta energy, etc. - and you'll wipe anyway. You've just saved yourself 15% DP - a good thing.
2) Your team fails. You can use DPSig as an indicator to /ragequit
DPSig > all. /thread
whufc89
I really didn't wanna get on anybody's nerves so I thought I'd ask this here instead of creating a whole new thread for it...
Cracked Armor Vs Weakness
Which of these two do you think is best to put on enemies in PvE?
I only ask as I'm choosing between a skill which gives nearby enemies weakness & a skill which gives nearby enemies cracked armor.
Thanks.
Cracked Armor Vs Weakness
Which of these two do you think is best to put on enemies in PvE?
I only ask as I'm choosing between a skill which gives nearby enemies weakness & a skill which gives nearby enemies cracked armor.
Thanks.
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
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Originally Posted by whufc89
I really didn't wanna get on anybody's nerves so I thought I'd ask this here instead of creating a whole new thread for it...
Cracked Armor Vs Weakness Which of these two do you think is best to put on enemies in PvE? I only ask as I'm choosing between a skill which gives nearby enemies weakness & a skill which gives nearby enemies cracked armor. Thanks. |
but it doesn't matter.
Weakness.
It's absolutely amazing in PvE for neutering enemy damage.
Shaz
Why not both? But if I have to choose one, I'd go with weakness.
whufc89
Nice, thanks guys. I've decided to actually go with both after all, as I found a spare slot on my hero's skill bar. Hopefully with both, enemies will be easier to kill & less of a problem offensively to my team.
Draginvry
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shaz
DPS is the best res in PvE, provided your party isn't a total failure.
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Other res skills only come into play when your party DOES suck. In which case, it doesn't really matter if your bring RC or return sig, because your chance of completing the mission is already low to begin with.
whufc89
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Draginvry
I agree. DPS is by far the best res for any character in PvE, as long as your party doesn't suck.
Other res skills only come into play when your party DOES suck. In which case, it doesn't really matter if your bring RC or return sig, because your chance of completing the mission is already low to begin with. |
Pleikki
I prefer Death Pact Signet on some heroes and signet on some. Signet if hero got some sec prof like E/me and if hero uses only Main prof skills i make it x/rt and use pact signet
N1ghtstalker
i used DPS for a while now and i don't seem to have much problems with it
it's fast and works good
it's fast and works good
miskav
DPS > Res sig.
Heroes seem to refuse to use Res sig lately, and even if they do, it's usually not enough to save the team anyway.
I prefer the 15% DP saved by DPS.
Heroes seem to refuse to use Res sig lately, and even if they do, it's usually not enough to save the team anyway.
I prefer the 15% DP saved by DPS.
Boogz
i use DPS when i'm on normal mode, for HM i run FomF, and on some difficult areas where i think that my party will get wiped i run Rebirth
angmar_nite
DPSig is FAR superior to resurrection chant. With hardrez, cast time and end result are all that matter, and if he's going to die again something's very wrong with your team.
Oh, and the build given by the original replier is by no means particularly original OR effective. BoTM > Verata's
Oh, and the build given by the original replier is by no means particularly original OR effective. BoTM > Verata's
Tyla
DPSignet.
Same casting as Ressurrection Signet, reusable, decent health/energy on-res....
If there's a wipe, whoever had it doesn't get DP if the person they ressed get kills first.
Only if my secondary is available, though.
At the Res Chant argument -- Res Chant can't be used mid-battle.
Before NF, maybe it was a good choice, but there was FomF anyway.
So Res Chant or, any Monk res skill at all is quite redundant. Rebirth is only good if you goof in areas like ToPK.
Same casting as Ressurrection Signet, reusable, decent health/energy on-res....
If there's a wipe, whoever had it doesn't get DP if the person they ressed get kills first.
Only if my secondary is available, though.
At the Res Chant argument -- Res Chant can't be used mid-battle.
Before NF, maybe it was a good choice, but there was FomF anyway.
So Res Chant or, any Monk res skill at all is quite redundant. Rebirth is only good if you goof in areas like ToPK.
Numa Pompilius
For PvE my monks bring Rebirth, my ritualists Flesh of my flesh, and those who are neither bring rez sig. I rarely bring DPS.
Reason: 2 minutes is like three to five fights, and since heros have died at all it'll be hardmode, and since it's hardmode the odds that the DPS hero dies is fairly big, and having two heroes going down in a hardmode fight would be bad. Plus you're killing bosses (and recharging any rez sigs) pretty often.
I also disable all hard rezzes; it's hardly ever a good idea to rez while the fight is still going on, especially as both henchman monks will stop healing and start rezzing anyway, and if it is a good idea I can trigger the rez manually.
Reason: 2 minutes is like three to five fights, and since heros have died at all it'll be hardmode, and since it's hardmode the odds that the DPS hero dies is fairly big, and having two heroes going down in a hardmode fight would be bad. Plus you're killing bosses (and recharging any rez sigs) pretty often.
I also disable all hard rezzes; it's hardly ever a good idea to rez while the fight is still going on, especially as both henchman monks will stop healing and start rezzing anyway, and if it is a good idea I can trigger the rez manually.
Chthon
DPSignet rules at the two ends of the "oh shit" spectrum. When you're taking a single, isolated "oops monk was too slow on that one" death, DPS brings the person back up fast and ready to keep fighting with no real likelihood of the "death pact" part coming into play. And when you're facing an inevitable party wipe, it can be used for DP control. If you expect to be staying near one of these extremes, DPSignet is the best choice.
It's in the middle of the spectrum that DPSignet suddenly turns into a bad choice. When deaths are coming regularly, but the party may still able to soldier on and avoid a wipe, the drawback on DPS looms very large and can cause you to wipe where you might be able to finish the mob had you brought ResChant etc.
(This is the point where Alex says something arrogant and abrasive about your team failing at life and suggests ragequitting and finding a better team. If you're the ragequitting type (and if finding a better team is a possibility), then, yeah, no need to bother with situations in the middle where DPSignet isn't great. On the other hand, if these are guildies, or the only team available, or you just want to get the damn mission/quest done, it may be better to switch to a rez that suits your team than switch to a team that suits your rez.)
Couple other situations where DPSignet is not optimal:
1. When you've got 1 or 2 team members who are stacking up DP. It's just not safe to DPSignet them if they die in 1 pop. (Of course, unless it's your guildie/girlfriend/boyfriend/grandmother you could always shout "noob you fail at life QQQQ uninstall" and ragequit when this happens.)
2. When party wiping is a danger, and there's no rez shrine. In this case, saving 15% DP doesn't help much if you'll never get rezzed. Your only viable option is to run away and return to rez when the coast is clear. Rebirth's teleport-from-beyond-aggro-range effect can often be much more useful for this task than DPSignet's speed.
As for DPSignet vs ResSignet specifically -- DPSignet all the way. A hard rez, even a really bad one, is almost always going to be better than ResSignet.
It's in the middle of the spectrum that DPSignet suddenly turns into a bad choice. When deaths are coming regularly, but the party may still able to soldier on and avoid a wipe, the drawback on DPS looms very large and can cause you to wipe where you might be able to finish the mob had you brought ResChant etc.
(This is the point where Alex says something arrogant and abrasive about your team failing at life and suggests ragequitting and finding a better team. If you're the ragequitting type (and if finding a better team is a possibility), then, yeah, no need to bother with situations in the middle where DPSignet isn't great. On the other hand, if these are guildies, or the only team available, or you just want to get the damn mission/quest done, it may be better to switch to a rez that suits your team than switch to a team that suits your rez.)
Couple other situations where DPSignet is not optimal:
1. When you've got 1 or 2 team members who are stacking up DP. It's just not safe to DPSignet them if they die in 1 pop. (Of course, unless it's your guildie/girlfriend/boyfriend/grandmother you could always shout "noob you fail at life QQQQ uninstall" and ragequit when this happens.)
2. When party wiping is a danger, and there's no rez shrine. In this case, saving 15% DP doesn't help much if you'll never get rezzed. Your only viable option is to run away and return to rez when the coast is clear. Rebirth's teleport-from-beyond-aggro-range effect can often be much more useful for this task than DPSignet's speed.
As for DPSignet vs ResSignet specifically -- DPSignet all the way. A hard rez, even a really bad one, is almost always going to be better than ResSignet.
Eldin
[skill]Sunspear Rebirth Signet[/skill] > Res Sig AND DP Sig
[skill]Rebirth[/skill] > [skill]Sunspear Rebirth Signet[/skill]
On topic, I'd use the DP siggy if I could afford to go /Rt, else, well, read the first part of my post.
[skill]Rebirth[/skill] > [skill]Sunspear Rebirth Signet[/skill]
On topic, I'd use the DP siggy if I could afford to go /Rt, else, well, read the first part of my post.
Omega Precept
I prefer to use Rebirth over Res and DP while playing in difficult areas when I am solo Farming dangerous areas such FoW. I just leave the hero flagged at the starting area and if by chance I die prematurely I run the Hero monk to me to rebirth. It has Saved me a few times.
As far as the rest of PvE goes I prefer Death Pact Signet for obvious reasons already stated.
As far as the rest of PvE goes I prefer Death Pact Signet for obvious reasons already stated.
snaek
res sig is pretty useless,
except for a few select areas...which r:
abbaddons where u get recharges every 30s,
and similar mishes, where u kno u will get morale
pvp, especially ra/ta
and pve areas that r short and last only a few mins
everywhere else its pretty useless
as for death pact vs res chant...
they're both decent
res chant u have to be half range, which puts urself at risk of danger of bein targetted
death pact u can be full range, but u put urself at risk of danger, well its obvious y
and finally...best inbattle res is signet of return
teh only downside of it, is that it requires a primary para to use it
except for a few select areas...which r:
abbaddons where u get recharges every 30s,
and similar mishes, where u kno u will get morale
pvp, especially ra/ta
and pve areas that r short and last only a few mins
everywhere else its pretty useless
as for death pact vs res chant...
they're both decent
res chant u have to be half range, which puts urself at risk of danger of bein targetted
death pact u can be full range, but u put urself at risk of danger, well its obvious y
and finally...best inbattle res is signet of return
teh only downside of it, is that it requires a primary para to use it