I'm just curious what other people prefer. I've heard people saying rit was faster and I've also heard monk was faster from others. Having only learned on my rit I don't think I can acurately compare the two. So I'd like to hear the pros and cons of each build and why people think said build is better.
Really as for rit I can only spot one problem and its the spirits draining your monk after you've wiped out a group taking a bit longer to gather the energy needed for sb.
CoF 600rit/smite vs. Reg 600/smite
Mr. Undisclosed
Alex the Great
the rit is faster, but more dangerous because spell breaker may run out.
MercenaryKnight
The thing is, you have to constantly use monk hero/smiter for sber and that I believe will generally take more time. However, vwk adds a lot of life steal damage which should make up for it.
Abedeus
Ritualist tank - Faster
Monk tank - Safer
Plus, if you are running people through CoF, ask one or two of them for a healing spells for bonder... He might die because of recent CoF update.
Monk tank - Safer
Plus, if you are running people through CoF, ask one or two of them for a healing spells for bonder... He might die because of recent CoF update.
Mr. Undisclosed
Yeah I noticed in the build the smiter doesnt have much invested into divine so ti can't really heal itself too well like the rit's smiter.
A11Eur0
I've noticed a large speed difference between rit and monk tanks. Rit tank, in my personal experience both being the smiter and being a 3rd party runner, is SLOWER than monk. When I tank, am being run, or am smiting for a monk, it tends to go so much faster. I don't know why...as VWK SHOULD increase the damage dealt and kill mobs faster...the only explanation would have to be the spellbreaker necessity on the smiter, thus the need to build 15 energy before moving on to the next group. The monk tank does not need to do this, thus can overlap mobs as I do at the end of the first level. SB, take out the Keeper's group, spellbreaker is still up when the first group of crypts pops, run in and start wailing on the shock phantom. When sb runs out, it's already recharged so pop it up again. Let the phantom start hitting you, then run over to the other...this is a seamless transition that a rit tank cannot do. There are many such transitions throughout the dungeon, and they more than add up to a sizeable, noticeable time difference between a good monk 600 and a good rit tank with a smiter on the ball.
Mr. Undisclosed
Well after thinking about I'm going to try the monk version tomorrow and see how I do.
A Simple Farmer
I'd say the Rt is faster in the short run, I played around at completing the first level and couldn't go faster than 5 minutes. Which is faster than I could do with my Monk, but it was inconsistent. I also couldn't get close to times like that when running a group, as my ping would get too high and I'd lag death. So I'd have to run safer, or run as monk.
Not having SOA all the time with 3 groups is tricky.
As a monk a continual SOA makes for a more consistent average speed.
(hmmm maybe a Mo-rt with VWK and continual SOA....)
More of a tortoise and the hare thing, for me anyways.
Not having SOA all the time with 3 groups is tricky.
As a monk a continual SOA makes for a more consistent average speed.
(hmmm maybe a Mo-rt with VWK and continual SOA....)
More of a tortoise and the hare thing, for me anyways.
Mr. Undisclosed
Is there any such thing as too much hp? I was trying something outside gunnars in HM with my max norn title on and I died. I went back out without it and I did fine.
philo
Yes, there can be something like too much health. It obviously occurs when the synergy between Prot Spirit and SB stops working: as soon as 10% of your health is a higher number than the heal output of SB, you start getting into trouble.
At a quick glance, this should not occur for any health total lower than 960, although you may need a certain buffer for degen.
I realized this on a run where some ranger brought Symbiosis in order to help out the 600
At a quick glance, this should not occur for any health total lower than 960, although you may need a certain buffer for degen.
I realized this on a run where some ranger brought Symbiosis in order to help out the 600
Nightow
Another thing to consider is that the rit does not have access to mantra of resolve. When facing interupts, he must rather rely on mindbender to get his spells to slip through the interupts.
Yuhe Ji
I've tried both and found that the Rit build is a bit faster, but requires much more management (if you're using heroes). The monk build is much easier to use and the heroes just need to be there to maintain the enchantments. The monk can do the rest.
govolunteers05
I think Rit is faster, just because I got used to it.
When I do CoF with monk, it seems bit slow.
Some people might say "You need smiter hero to get 15 energy to cast SB", but monk tank also has to wait for Spell Breaker (Of course, I"m talking about the situation that you NEED spell breaker)
Just my opinion
When I do CoF with monk, it seems bit slow.
Some people might say "You need smiter hero to get 15 energy to cast SB", but monk tank also has to wait for Spell Breaker (Of course, I"m talking about the situation that you NEED spell breaker)
Just my opinion
Mr. Undisclosed
After trying the monk version I kinda dislike the shorter duration on spellbreaker :/
dustbunny
Quote:
Originally Posted by philo
Yes, there can be something like too much health. It obviously occurs when the synergy between Prot Spirit and SB stops working: as soon as 10% of your health is a higher number than the heal output of SB, you start getting into trouble.
At a quick glance, this should not occur for any health total lower than 960, although you may need a certain buffer for degen.
I realized this on a run where some ranger brought Symbiosis in order to help out the 600
You will get to a point where higher health is detrimental before you reach the point where damage cap from prot spirit outstrips healing capability from SB. The lower breakpoint comes from damage cap on the holy smiter. At 16 smiting, holy wrath does 53 damage max and retribution is 21 damage max. That gives you 803 health for holy wrath and 636 health for retribution. Above these, you will not get any increase in damage output. If you have both holy wrath and retribution on your tank, you will not get any increase in damage output above ~800 health at 16 smiting. You just take more damage. If you use consumables to cast smiting at greater than 16, then the damage-cap limited health is greater than 800. At 17 smiting, holy wrath caps at ~850 health. At 18 smiting, holy wrath caps at ~890 health.
At a quick glance, this should not occur for any health total lower than 960, although you may need a certain buffer for degen.
I realized this on a run where some ranger brought Symbiosis in order to help out the 600
You will get to a point where higher health is detrimental before you reach the point where damage cap from prot spirit outstrips healing capability from SB. The lower breakpoint comes from damage cap on the holy smiter. At 16 smiting, holy wrath does 53 damage max and retribution is 21 damage max. That gives you 803 health for holy wrath and 636 health for retribution. Above these, you will not get any increase in damage output. If you have both holy wrath and retribution on your tank, you will not get any increase in damage output above ~800 health at 16 smiting. You just take more damage. If you use consumables to cast smiting at greater than 16, then the damage-cap limited health is greater than 800. At 17 smiting, holy wrath caps at ~850 health. At 18 smiting, holy wrath caps at ~890 health.
Dr Dimento
I have a 600rit i use for this....
Well, my Smiter has 16 Divine favor and 15 Smiting.....which works well. The tradeoff of 1 or 2 damage from retribution is very much worth the extra time i get on spellbreaker. I get the full duration (including buffs) of spellbreaker, and the smiter can heal himself a tad more with sig of devotion, not to mention one casting of blessed will give him the energy to cast spellbreaker.
Only issue i ever run into is energy, which is pretty easily managed by not casting anything early and just waiting for stuff to start blinking before recasting.....
Most stuff (about 98%) is dead in a single casting of VwK anyway so that's rarely an issue that will get you killed.
Of course, I've spent a fat chunk of plat on my smiter to get him all set up. Sup Vigor, perfect inscribable divine favor staff of enchanting, all Vitae/Survivor armor w/sup divine favor headpiece and sup smiting rune.
Well, my Smiter has 16 Divine favor and 15 Smiting.....which works well. The tradeoff of 1 or 2 damage from retribution is very much worth the extra time i get on spellbreaker. I get the full duration (including buffs) of spellbreaker, and the smiter can heal himself a tad more with sig of devotion, not to mention one casting of blessed will give him the energy to cast spellbreaker.
Only issue i ever run into is energy, which is pretty easily managed by not casting anything early and just waiting for stuff to start blinking before recasting.....
Most stuff (about 98%) is dead in a single casting of VwK anyway so that's rarely an issue that will get you killed.
Of course, I've spent a fat chunk of plat on my smiter to get him all set up. Sup Vigor, perfect inscribable divine favor staff of enchanting, all Vitae/Survivor armor w/sup divine favor headpiece and sup smiting rune.
Dr Dimento
Also, worth noting (and cracked me up) is that on a run, after i paid, right at the last boss 3 guys in my party didn't pay.......so the 2 monks wouldn't kill the final boss.
I didn't think i'd be fighting on this particular run, so i didn't bother switching from my 600hp rit setup (as opposed to my 330hp skills/armor).
I was still able to solo the last boss and all the mobs in that little area. It cracked me up.
I didn't think i'd be fighting on this particular run, so i didn't bother switching from my 600hp rit setup (as opposed to my 330hp skills/armor).
I was still able to solo the last boss and all the mobs in that little area. It cracked me up.
Abonai Laguna
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Dimento
Also, worth noting (and cracked me up) is that on a run, after i paid, right at the last boss 3 guys in my party didn't pay.......so the 2 monks wouldn't kill the final boss.
I didn't think i'd be fighting on this particular run, so i didn't bother switching from my 600hp rit setup (as opposed to my 330hp skills/armor).
I was still able to solo the last boss and all the mobs in that little area. It cracked me up. qft
I prefer the ritualist for faster killing, but sometimes i use my monk for a little difference
I didn't think i'd be fighting on this particular run, so i didn't bother switching from my 600hp rit setup (as opposed to my 330hp skills/armor).
I was still able to solo the last boss and all the mobs in that little area. It cracked me up. qft
I prefer the ritualist for faster killing, but sometimes i use my monk for a little difference
MercenaryKnight
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Dimento
I have a 600rit i use for this....
Well, my Smiter has 16 Divine favor and 15 Smiting.....which works well. The tradeoff of 1 or 2 damage from retribution is very much worth the extra time i get on spellbreaker. I get the full duration (including buffs) of spellbreaker, and the smiter can heal himself a tad more with sig of devotion, not to mention one casting of blessed will give him the energy to cast spellbreaker.
Only issue i ever run into is energy, which is pretty easily managed by not casting anything early and just waiting for stuff to start blinking before recasting.....
Most stuff (about 98%) is dead in a single casting of VwK anyway so that's rarely an issue that will get you killed.
Of course, I've spent a fat chunk of plat on my smiter to get him all set up. Sup Vigor, perfect inscribable divine favor staff of enchanting, all Vitae/Survivor armor w/sup divine favor headpiece and sup smiting rune. I am assuming you are using light of deldrimor on your rit? Because I did a run and found it terribly slow even with vwk the mobs would have a few still alive after sber ended and it was most likely because I didn't have light of deldrimor to spam.
Well, my Smiter has 16 Divine favor and 15 Smiting.....which works well. The tradeoff of 1 or 2 damage from retribution is very much worth the extra time i get on spellbreaker. I get the full duration (including buffs) of spellbreaker, and the smiter can heal himself a tad more with sig of devotion, not to mention one casting of blessed will give him the energy to cast spellbreaker.
Only issue i ever run into is energy, which is pretty easily managed by not casting anything early and just waiting for stuff to start blinking before recasting.....
Most stuff (about 98%) is dead in a single casting of VwK anyway so that's rarely an issue that will get you killed.
Of course, I've spent a fat chunk of plat on my smiter to get him all set up. Sup Vigor, perfect inscribable divine favor staff of enchanting, all Vitae/Survivor armor w/sup divine favor headpiece and sup smiting rune. I am assuming you are using light of deldrimor on your rit? Because I did a run and found it terribly slow even with vwk the mobs would have a few still alive after sber ended and it was most likely because I didn't have light of deldrimor to spam.
Mr. Undisclosed
I don't think having 1 less in smiting would make that much of a difference in killing speed. Also considering the longer sb duration and the lifesteal from vwk it seems unlikely.
Dr Dimento
1 less in smiting only costs about 1 dmg as opposed to 16. You aren't maxing out Holy Wrath unless you have 870hp anyway, so you arent losing an effectiveness there, but i believe you may be losing 1 dmg per attack from retribution. However, the extra seconds in SB is eaaaaaaaaasily worth it.
Mr. Undisclosed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Dimento
However, the extra seconds in SB is eaaaaaaaaasily worth it.
QFT
12characters
12characters
Dr Dimento
Just an update.......
Since the Reversal of Damage bugfix, its been *nearly* impossible to duo it with a single hero smiter. I say nearly because it IS possible, but you have to be extremely careful not to over-aggro. Having tried it with a 600rit and 600monk, one definite advantage to the monk is the fact that it can still easily be duo'd with a hero smiter....a mesmer hero smiter.
[skill]Signet of Illusions[/skill][skill]Ether Signet[/skill][skill]Illusion of Weakness[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill][skill]Vital Blessing[/skill][skill]Life Attunement[/skill][skill]Retribution[/skill][skill]Holy Wrath[/skill]
16 Illusion Magic
15 Inspiration Magic
the rest in fast casting
Use signet of illusions to cast ur maintained enchants at 16 protection/smiting, then ether signet to get 20 energy, then Illusion of Weakness. Wait till the smiter gets full health again......then start the killing. You can aggro pretty much all you want without fear. Just make sure to check after each large group and see if illusion of weakness is still up on the smiter, if not, recast before aggroing. This works great, at the cost of not having a smiter with bip.......but if you were THAT dependent on bip you probably weren't very good anyway.
Also, since you cant do this with a 600rit, i'd say the advantage goes to the monk.
Oh yea (and this is common to both rits and monk smiters). Always cast retribution BEFORE holy wrath....this way retribution triggers reversal of damage, and the smiter only takes 21 dmg (or so) instead of 53 or so it would take from holy wrath.
Since the Reversal of Damage bugfix, its been *nearly* impossible to duo it with a single hero smiter. I say nearly because it IS possible, but you have to be extremely careful not to over-aggro. Having tried it with a 600rit and 600monk, one definite advantage to the monk is the fact that it can still easily be duo'd with a hero smiter....a mesmer hero smiter.
[skill]Signet of Illusions[/skill][skill]Ether Signet[/skill][skill]Illusion of Weakness[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill][skill]Vital Blessing[/skill][skill]Life Attunement[/skill][skill]Retribution[/skill][skill]Holy Wrath[/skill]
16 Illusion Magic
15 Inspiration Magic
the rest in fast casting
Use signet of illusions to cast ur maintained enchants at 16 protection/smiting, then ether signet to get 20 energy, then Illusion of Weakness. Wait till the smiter gets full health again......then start the killing. You can aggro pretty much all you want without fear. Just make sure to check after each large group and see if illusion of weakness is still up on the smiter, if not, recast before aggroing. This works great, at the cost of not having a smiter with bip.......but if you were THAT dependent on bip you probably weren't very good anyway.
Also, since you cant do this with a 600rit, i'd say the advantage goes to the monk.
Oh yea (and this is common to both rits and monk smiters). Always cast retribution BEFORE holy wrath....this way retribution triggers reversal of damage, and the smiter only takes 21 dmg (or so) instead of 53 or so it would take from holy wrath.
Drake Keyotte
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Dimento
Just an update.......
Since the Reversal of Damage bugfix, its been *nearly* impossible to duo it with a single hero smiter. I say nearly because it IS possible, but you have to be extremely careful not to over-aggro. Having tried it with a 600rit and 600monk, one definite advantage to the monk is the fact that it can still easily be duo'd with a hero smiter....a mesmer hero smiter.
[skill]Signet of Illusions[/skill][skill]Ether Signet[/skill][skill]Illusion of Weakness[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill][skill]Vital Blessing[/skill][skill]Life Attunement[/skill][skill]Retribution[/skill][skill]Holy Wrath[/skill]
16 Illusion Magic
15 Inspiration Magic
the rest in fast casting
Use signet of illusions to cast ur maintained enchants at 16 protection/smiting, then ether signet to get 20 energy, then Illusion of Weakness. Wait till the smiter gets full health again......then start the killing. You can aggro pretty much all you want without fear. Just make sure to check after each large group and see if illusion of weakness is still up on the smiter, if not, recast before aggroing. This works great, at the cost of not having a smiter with bip.......but if you were THAT dependent on bip you probably weren't very good anyway.
Also, since you cant do this with a 600rit, i'd say the advantage goes to the monk.
Oh yea (and this is common to both rits and monk smiters). Always cast retribution BEFORE holy wrath....this way retribution triggers reversal of damage, and the smiter only takes 21 dmg (or so) instead of 53 or so it would take from holy wrath. I have been trying out alternatives to the common smiter builds and this looks like a viable alternative. Thanks for sharing
Since the Reversal of Damage bugfix, its been *nearly* impossible to duo it with a single hero smiter. I say nearly because it IS possible, but you have to be extremely careful not to over-aggro. Having tried it with a 600rit and 600monk, one definite advantage to the monk is the fact that it can still easily be duo'd with a hero smiter....a mesmer hero smiter.
[skill]Signet of Illusions[/skill][skill]Ether Signet[/skill][skill]Illusion of Weakness[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill][skill]Vital Blessing[/skill][skill]Life Attunement[/skill][skill]Retribution[/skill][skill]Holy Wrath[/skill]
16 Illusion Magic
15 Inspiration Magic
the rest in fast casting
Use signet of illusions to cast ur maintained enchants at 16 protection/smiting, then ether signet to get 20 energy, then Illusion of Weakness. Wait till the smiter gets full health again......then start the killing. You can aggro pretty much all you want without fear. Just make sure to check after each large group and see if illusion of weakness is still up on the smiter, if not, recast before aggroing. This works great, at the cost of not having a smiter with bip.......but if you were THAT dependent on bip you probably weren't very good anyway.
Also, since you cant do this with a 600rit, i'd say the advantage goes to the monk.
Oh yea (and this is common to both rits and monk smiters). Always cast retribution BEFORE holy wrath....this way retribution triggers reversal of damage, and the smiter only takes 21 dmg (or so) instead of 53 or so it would take from holy wrath. I have been trying out alternatives to the common smiter builds and this looks like a viable alternative. Thanks for sharing
Mr. Undisclosed
Nice build Dimento.
I still think rit600/smite has the advantage though.
I can duo fine, and although I have a 15 in smite I think VWK more then makes up for it. Theres also the fact that rits get the longer spel breaker which is really nice.
I still think rit600/smite has the advantage though.
I can duo fine, and although I have a 15 in smite I think VWK more then makes up for it. Theres also the fact that rits get the longer spel breaker which is really nice.
Dr Dimento
Quote:
I can duo fine, and although I have a 15 in smite I think VWK more then makes up for it. Theres also the fact that rits get the longer spell breaker which is really nice. I'm by no means saying the monk is superior, just that it does seem to have a few advantages over the rit. I do use both, but i can't seem to duo with the rit (i have to bring another hero just to heal it). As for VwK, yes, it does make up for almost any penalty in smiting prayers attribute.....but it does get interrupted sometimes because rits dont have interrupt prevention.
My mesmer smiter has all survivor/vitae runes, a sup vigor, and a +60hp staff....and every now and then its health does go under 1/4th, triggering illusion of weakness to heal for 253. It's priceless to be able to aggro however many you wish, and it certainly speeds up the runs.
As i said, i have both a 600rit and a 600monk, and I personally prefer the monk for both speed and ease........however, I do see how a 600rit could be faster with the right player, at the cost of safety.
Mr. Undisclosed
OwUTEM3C5IilMlAEf5TegAA
12+1+3 Divine
11+3 Smite
I use that on smiter and its actually 14 in smite and not 15 like I had thought but I still kinda think VWK evens that out. The 16 in divine is usually able to cover any dmg that comes the smiters way but if he isn't able to keep up Illusion kicks in. Also after a bit of practice you learn to time your vwk :] Not saying rits are definitely better or anything but I think they have a bit of an advantage despite the smite difference.
12+1+3 Divine
11+3 Smite
I use that on smiter and its actually 14 in smite and not 15 like I had thought but I still kinda think VWK evens that out. The 16 in divine is usually able to cover any dmg that comes the smiters way but if he isn't able to keep up Illusion kicks in. Also after a bit of practice you learn to time your vwk :] Not saying rits are definitely better or anything but I think they have a bit of an advantage despite the smite difference.