Should a PvE Warrior Use Major Runes?
Sir Tidus
Generally, in PvE, should a warrior use major runes for his weapon attribute and/or strength? Or should he just stick to minor attribute runes? Is the health loss worth it? Thanks.
ogre_jd
One major rune's fine. Two? I'm not brave enough to try. :P
Marty Silverblade
You can use a major weapon rune if you want but the extra damage doesn't pay off in the end. Strength doesn't need a boost.
Sir Tidus
But aren't there like a million ways to gain extra health?
Wirt
Well, ive had a superior rune on my warrior from way back when the prices of the runes were huge. I might just either be too lazy or too proud to remove it now, haha. However, the warrior has made it through all campaigns fine, and he AB's fine (havent done much RA with him). Could he survive better with minors, eh yea maybe, but pve wise you can make it just fine.
So in otherwords, with one major rune, you can make it just fine.
So in otherwords, with one major rune, you can make it just fine.
Numa Pompilius
Superior weapon rune and superior vigor here, then full radiant and a zealous weapon to let him spam You Move Like A Dwarf! and Vanguard Assassin. I dont know if its optimal but he vanquishes like a sonofabitch.
In short, I dont really think you need to minimax in PvE.
In short, I dont really think you need to minimax in PvE.
DarkGanni
I use a Major weapon rune on headpart, the rest all minors, except Absorption since that doesnt have drawbacks. As a warrior I like high health.
- Ganni
- Ganni
Stormlord Alex
I've got major strength gauntlets kicking around for when I want the 14 strength breakpoint on [skill=text]enraging charge[/skill].
Really though, you'd take a major rune if you need to hit a breakpoint generally.
Really though, you'd take a major rune if you need to hit a breakpoint generally.
miskav
Tanking in PvE is ''Easier'' with lower HP (holding Aggro is easier) So in that sense, the major would be helping you.
Otherwise, 1 major is enough.
Otherwise, 1 major is enough.
DarkKnight
For general PvE i don't use anything that sucks health. For something like Obby tanking and running i use a Sup rune. But for general PvE i dont see the use. If you really want to its not gonna make you suck but honestly the bonuses a warrior receives for that one attribute point were not worth it. Its really personal preference/what build you run but for the most part id say there is too little benifit to justify giving up health.
ogre_jd
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Originally Posted by miskav
Tanking in PvE is ''Easier'' with lower HP (holding Aggro is easier)
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angmar_nite
a COUPLE?????
Please no.
Please no.
Thorondor Port
I use all minors. +1 gives like 2 extra damage to sword attacks. big deal. ill take the health
Sir Tidus
So what are you guys saying then? Either one major or none? By the way, how many attributes do you guys use? Because I use four, so maybe I should use more major runes to boost my attributes (though I will always make sure that my health is at least 480).
angmar_nite
3. You better have an amazing stable proven build to go any higher.
Targuil
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Originally Posted by Sir Tidus
So what are you guys saying then? Either one major or none? By the way, how many attributes do you guys use? Because I use four, so maybe I should use more major runes to boost my attributes (though I will always make sure that my health is at least 480).
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Draginvry
IMHO, I only run majors or superiors on warriors to meet breakpoints. This is usually for Strength, since most of my axe attack skills don't have any character-breaking breakpoints. Unless you are meeting a breakpoint for the insignia or for a skill, you are probably not doing anything but sacrificing a large amount of health for a negligible increase in damage.
Of course, warriors are so buff anyway that you can probably afford a hit to your health in PvE, so it mostly comes down to preference. If you want to have 15 Sword Mastery so you can run around all like "I am teh warrior who makes teh monstars fall daown lolz" then it probably won't make much of a difference anyway.
I'd still take the health unless the extra spec was giving me another second on one of my stances.
Of course, warriors are so buff anyway that you can probably afford a hit to your health in PvE, so it mostly comes down to preference. If you want to have 15 Sword Mastery so you can run around all like "I am teh warrior who makes teh monstars fall daown lolz" then it probably won't make much of a difference anyway.
I'd still take the health unless the extra spec was giving me another second on one of my stances.
Luminarus
4 is too many attributes, the only time I ever seen 4 attributes work well is on monks using healing, prot, divine favour and shadow arts (return). Even then its just 4 in shadow arts.
In order to decide whether to use a Major/sup rune or not look at it this way.
What do I gain from it? In the case of a weapon, probably like 1 extra dps, max.
What do I lose from it? 35 - 75hp
Is it worth it? Usually no.
The only time its worth it is for breakpoints, or 55ing. The only class I ever use a sup on is necro for mming for the 16dm breakpoint.
In order to decide whether to use a Major/sup rune or not look at it this way.
What do I gain from it? In the case of a weapon, probably like 1 extra dps, max.
What do I lose from it? 35 - 75hp
Is it worth it? Usually no.
The only time its worth it is for breakpoints, or 55ing. The only class I ever use a sup on is necro for mming for the 16dm breakpoint.
Sir Tidus
Three Questions:
1. I'm a W/Mo. If I were to use 3 attributes, then which 3 should I use?
2. Most people say that you shouldn't use a monk attribute, but then what's the point of the secondary profession then?
3. I also thought about just sword and strength, but I only have prophecies and EotN, so no lion's comfort. This means that without tactics or monk attributes, I will not have any defensive or healing skills. What would you guys suggest for me?
1. I'm a W/Mo. If I were to use 3 attributes, then which 3 should I use?
2. Most people say that you shouldn't use a monk attribute, but then what's the point of the secondary profession then?
3. I also thought about just sword and strength, but I only have prophecies and EotN, so no lion's comfort. This means that without tactics or monk attributes, I will not have any defensive or healing skills. What would you guys suggest for me?
RhanoctJocosa
/Mo on a warrior is only really good for [skill]Mending Touch[/skill]
In PvE you don't really need a secondary.
I run superior runes in PvE unless it's serious business (DoA etc)
In PvE you don't really need a secondary.
I run superior runes in PvE unless it's serious business (DoA etc)
Pyro maniac
For breakpoints, yes.
For overall damage, maybe.
The minor-only hype comes from PvP, and is mainly for hitting under spirit bond. Of course the extra health doesn't hurt either.
For overall damage, maybe.
The minor-only hype comes from PvP, and is mainly for hitting under spirit bond. Of course the extra health doesn't hurt either.
Sir Tidus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa
/Mo on a warrior is only really good for [skill]Mending Touch[/skill]
In PvE you don't really need a secondary. I run superior runes in PvE unless it's serious business (DoA etc) |
Toutatis
If you were using 3 attributes, I'd go for Strength, Tactics and the attribute of your chosen weapon. Tactics still has a use, despite its "weakened" state from recent balances (even Healing Signet has more uses than just topping up your health bar if the monks are being overworked)
Stormlord Alex
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Originally Posted by Sir Tidus
Any other options? Thanks.
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Everything else is trash.
Sir Tidus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
Not much... There's Holy Veil/Purge Signet, I guess.
Everything else is trash. |
Sir Tidus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Toutatis
If you were using 3 attributes, I'd go for Strength, Tactics and the attribute of your chosen weapon. Tactics still has a use, despite its "weakened" state from recent balances (even Healing Signet has more uses than just topping up your health bar if the monks are being overworked)
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Richardt
You'll want to use a secondary if there is some utility type skill to help you out. For example, when I first started I specced into healing for Live Vicariously (I don't do this now though 
). A more serious example is that I now am /P for Enduring Harmony for a longer FGJ.
For runes, I always use minors (except for vigor). Doing a point or two more damage isn't worth the -35 health IMO.
). A more serious example is that I now am /P for Enduring Harmony for a longer FGJ.For runes, I always use minors (except for vigor). Doing a point or two more damage isn't worth the -35 health IMO.
Wirt
In pve, I usually run primary professions only skills, unless im trying out something new. This applies to most of my professions, except MM. I could stand in the guildhall trying to force use of a 2ary profession skill (I dont like cookie cutter builds for some reason), or I could just go into pve battle with all primary skills and let the hero/hench monks do the healing/cond removal, or I could just live with the conditions until they run out. Either way, victory comes pretty easy.
Now if I am doing HM vanquishing or whatnot, then I rethink my builds and do more hybrid stuff. But if you are just doing NM pve, find a good skill chain with primary skills and go with it. Dont expect to find a "good-for-everything" build as you'll need to change up depending on what you want to do. For the most part a straight damage-dealing build, with maybe a few defenses and a self heal are good enough for pve.
Now if I am doing HM vanquishing or whatnot, then I rethink my builds and do more hybrid stuff. But if you are just doing NM pve, find a good skill chain with primary skills and go with it. Dont expect to find a "good-for-everything" build as you'll need to change up depending on what you want to do. For the most part a straight damage-dealing build, with maybe a few defenses and a self heal are good enough for pve.
MagmaRed
W/Mo is useful for hex and condition removal, and occassionally Smiting damage with a specific build. Unless farming solo, there is never a need to put attribute points into a Monk attribute except for the rare Smiting build. Skills you could consider using as a /Mo without using attribute points on would be (from the games you own):
[skill]Mend Ailment[/skill][skill]Purge Conditions[/skill][skill]Remove Hex[/skill][skill]Purge Signet[/skill][wiki]Cure Hex[/wiki][wiki]Smite Condition[/wiki][skill]Smite Hex[/skill][skill]Holy Veil[/skill][wiki]Purifying Veil[/wiki]
Some of those aren't worth using, and some are extremely effective if used right. Skills like Cure Hex will provide a heal with the hex removal, but you won't be concerned about the heal. The only thing you would need is the hex removed, so attribute points aren't needed. The only other skills you might want to take would be a resurrect spell. Rebirth, Restore Life, and Resurrect would be the ones to look at. Lastly, if you learn how to use enegry and adrenaline well, you could take a skill to use on your teams Monk to help out.
[skill]Succor[/skill]
[skill]Mend Ailment[/skill][skill]Purge Conditions[/skill][skill]Remove Hex[/skill][skill]Purge Signet[/skill][wiki]Cure Hex[/wiki][wiki]Smite Condition[/wiki][skill]Smite Hex[/skill][skill]Holy Veil[/skill][wiki]Purifying Veil[/wiki]
Some of those aren't worth using, and some are extremely effective if used right. Skills like Cure Hex will provide a heal with the hex removal, but you won't be concerned about the heal. The only thing you would need is the hex removed, so attribute points aren't needed. The only other skills you might want to take would be a resurrect spell. Rebirth, Restore Life, and Resurrect would be the ones to look at. Lastly, if you learn how to use enegry and adrenaline well, you could take a skill to use on your teams Monk to help out.
[skill]Succor[/skill]
Chthon
Probably not.
Past 12 you hit diminishing returns on weapon mastery's inherent effect, so you won't get a worthwhile base damage increase. You're not going to hit any important weapon breakpoints at 15. The only maybe-important strength breakpoint at 14 is enraging charge, which I don't think is worth it (and I often run drunken master instead anyway). And now that tactics is dead, you never need to run any other attributes.
So, the only reason to even consider it would be if you wanted lower life to try to attract more aggro. Not that it's really going to make a difference because there's such an armor differential between you and everyone else that you'll never grab aggro regardless of your hp total unless you use SY, in which case you'll always grab it regardless of your hp total.
Past 12 you hit diminishing returns on weapon mastery's inherent effect, so you won't get a worthwhile base damage increase. You're not going to hit any important weapon breakpoints at 15. The only maybe-important strength breakpoint at 14 is enraging charge, which I don't think is worth it (and I often run drunken master instead anyway). And now that tactics is dead, you never need to run any other attributes.
So, the only reason to even consider it would be if you wanted lower life to try to attract more aggro. Not that it's really going to make a difference because there's such an armor differential between you and everyone else that you'll never grab aggro regardless of your hp total unless you use SY, in which case you'll always grab it regardless of your hp total.
Sir Tidus
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Originally Posted by Targuil
I suggest to stick with max 3 attributes (12 to weapon and something to something else) and i suggest to raise your health by 100 if you have ~480.
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Kale Ironfist
12 ranks, then minor and helm bonus to 14, since there is no health penalty with the minor and helm bonus.
strcpy
I wouldn't give a unqualified "yes" or "no" and I don't see how any can do it.
As I said in another thread on how much health is required - if I am playing PvE and I rarely drop below half health and never below 1/4 health what good does that extra health do me? Since that is normally the case and the few times I do actually fall below it I would still have party wiped at 600hp - so again what is that extra health buying me?
As such I would be a fool not to go with more damage, I would be having the higher health just because everyone else does and people on a forum say it's bad. That's makes no sense at all. I would be better off having more offense as it would have things complete faster.
If that isn't your case then the extra health is good. When I first hit the Realm of Torment I had to switch to a higher health PvP like build. Over time as I learned what mobs were what profession, where they spawned, and their patrols and I found I didn't need the health anymore and more offense meant faster runs (and in many cases that little bit made the difference in things like killing them before they finish their Call to Torment skill - and yes this is even true on my characters that are rank one or two Lightbringer - it's even more pronounced on the ones with a high rank). Hard Mode has been the same way, other than a few areas and dungeons I don't need the extra health so why bring it - of course in the areas where I do then I simply swap my headpiece for my high HP build and go from there.
Am I stupid and all the other sorts of replies about using superior runes (and sometimes two majors instead of the superior)? Dunno, but I can not see why it is stupid of me to have exactly the same death/success rate but only complete the stuff faster. That's not to say you will have the same experience and go out there and buy three superior runes, it is only saying if you don't need the health then use one, if you need the health then don't
As I said in another thread on how much health is required - if I am playing PvE and I rarely drop below half health and never below 1/4 health what good does that extra health do me? Since that is normally the case and the few times I do actually fall below it I would still have party wiped at 600hp - so again what is that extra health buying me?
As such I would be a fool not to go with more damage, I would be having the higher health just because everyone else does and people on a forum say it's bad. That's makes no sense at all. I would be better off having more offense as it would have things complete faster.
If that isn't your case then the extra health is good. When I first hit the Realm of Torment I had to switch to a higher health PvP like build. Over time as I learned what mobs were what profession, where they spawned, and their patrols and I found I didn't need the health anymore and more offense meant faster runs (and in many cases that little bit made the difference in things like killing them before they finish their Call to Torment skill - and yes this is even true on my characters that are rank one or two Lightbringer - it's even more pronounced on the ones with a high rank). Hard Mode has been the same way, other than a few areas and dungeons I don't need the extra health so why bring it - of course in the areas where I do then I simply swap my headpiece for my high HP build and go from there.
Am I stupid and all the other sorts of replies about using superior runes (and sometimes two majors instead of the superior)? Dunno, but I can not see why it is stupid of me to have exactly the same death/success rate but only complete the stuff faster. That's not to say you will have the same experience and go out there and buy three superior runes, it is only saying if you don't need the health then use one, if you need the health then don't
Wirt
Strcpy, I kinda agree with you. My warrior has sup runes as a throwback to when it was the rage. However I runed my heros with 2 majors, seems to get most bang for the buck (+4 attributes for -70 hp). Is it the best set-up? Eh I dont know. Did i finish all campaigns with 9 characters without much problem? No.
Also keep in mind if you are sacrificing defense (-75hp) for better offense (sup rune), the bad guys cant help their team or hurt your team when they are dead. You have to determine for your character's profession, how much is the extra hp worth, and how much benefit do you get from the extra points in skills.
Also keep in mind if you are sacrificing defense (-75hp) for better offense (sup rune), the bad guys cant help their team or hurt your team when they are dead. You have to determine for your character's profession, how much is the extra hp worth, and how much benefit do you get from the extra points in skills.
Malice Black
Offense is the best form of defense.
There where few better words spoken.
There where few better words spoken.
creelie
It's generally not worth it. Aggro is pretty slippery; not all PvE creatures make the same decision about who to attack, and they are prone to changing their minds. Best case scenario as a pure tank is they all settle on you and then they get snared, in which case you want as much health as you can pile on because if you die, they'll go looking for something else to hit. Even if you're not a pure tank, you're probably still hoping to tie up a few baddies and keep them from rampaging among your squishy friends, in which case you still want lots of health. Go with minor runes; your backline will thank you.
RPGmaniac
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Originally Posted by Malice Black
Offense is the best form of defense.
There where few better words spoken. |
I used to go for a superior, then decided to go for majors instead. But now I mostly use minors unless I need to hit a specific breakpoint. Using a superior rune just for an extra 3 damage on your eviscerate isn't worth it to me. I'd rather have 75 more health than the other guy.
In regards to using your secondary profession, yeah you are kinda stuck without mending touch, which is a great skill. But that doesn't mean you have nothing. There's cure hex from Eye of the North, which is not a bad heal and a decent way to remove an annoying hex such as empathy or SS or something similar. There's also Mend Ailment too which isn't as good as mending touch but isn't crap.
Quote:
| However I runed my heros with 2 majors, seems to get most bang for the buck (+4 attributes for -70 hp). |
Also, if you have below 500 health, there's something wrong IMO. Even when I ran my superiors I still had at least 530 health because I had all survivor insignias, a superior vigor and vitae runes on empty armor pieces.
Malice Black
I pile on the offense in PvE. I run just the one monk in NM PvE, and a monk/motivation para in HM. No melee in NM either (waste of a slot)
Nyktos
For a war, majors are only useful for the EC breakpoint (or for Sentinel's Insignias I guess, but I can't think of a reason you'd be using 11 Strength). Sups are out of the question unless you're farming.
As for attributes: To be honest, wars run best with just Weapon Mastery and Strength most of the time. The recent nerf to "Watch Yourself!" took away the last good reason to run Tactics. The only time a secondary profession attribute would be worth putting more than leftover points in it would be a Conjure.
As for attributes: To be honest, wars run best with just Weapon Mastery and Strength most of the time. The recent nerf to "Watch Yourself!" took away the last good reason to run Tactics. The only time a secondary profession attribute would be worth putting more than leftover points in it would be a Conjure.
Sir Tidus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Malice Black
Offense is the best form of defense.
There where few better words spoken. |