Question about vampiric sword hilt

rike1

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2008

Back off Cynn Mhenlo is mine

E/Mo

25 Mar 2008 at 02:43 - 1

I run a W/Me general PvE tank and the only question ive ever had about his gear is the sword hilt.

I currently use a vampiric hilt because after asking around and not knowing what to use myself, people said it was the best.

But I just don't see it. I just really cannot see the benefit. I always find myself losing more health in a fray from attacks and regen than I EVER gain back from the life steal.

I do not need a zealous hilt or any that make things last 33% longer.

This leaves me with a sundering hilt, furious hilt, and elemental hilts.

Or is vampiric the best way to go?

1. I'd like to try and do this without switching weapons.
2. If I cannot, what do I need to use for what situation?

Might as well edit in skills:

Galrath slash
Final thrust
disrupting blow

These are my attack skills. Rest are defense/res/stances/shouts ^_^

Gift3d

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Las Vegas

Enraged Whiny Carebears [oR]

W/E

25 Mar 2008 at 02:49 - 2

People just like to agree with what goes around. See elitism(n), also known as (96% of users on this website).

Since you obviously will not be constantly attacking in critical situations with your warrior where that extra 3 damage will matter, vampiric probably isn't the best way to go because, as you said, you will wind up losing more health in the long run. Since the extra 3 damage honestly isn't crap, i'd go with Furious or Sundering. Furious if you use a lot of adrenaline skills, especially Dragon Slash. Sundering for anything else, as it doesn't have any downside to it.

Savio

Teenager with attitude

Join Date: Jul 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

25 Mar 2008 at 03:03 - 3

If you're hitting at least 60% of the time, you'll break even health-wise with vampiric. But worrying about health in most situations is pointless, as monks usually overheal you anyway.

Furious is bad because the way adrenaline works, the extra strike does little in the long run, and builds that revolve around high adrenaline gain like Dragon Slash already have ways of doubling adrenaline.

As far as sundering goes, it does about half the damage vampiric does in the long term. It's usable, but if you thought vampiric damage was crap, you'll like sundering damage less.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rike1

Galrath slash
Final thrust
disrupting blow

These are my attack skills. Rest are defense/res/stances/shouts ^_^ That's not the greatest build ever, post your full build and where you're at in the game.

rike1

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2008

Back off Cynn Mhenlo is mine

E/Mo

25 Mar 2008 at 03:07 - 4

My main attack skills cost 8 and 10 adrenaline respectively - but all i hear is sundering is crap for me.

Anyone know the actually increase in damage ill do with a 20/20 sundering sword? Will the damage output be more than if i used a furious hilt to gain more adrenaline to use my attack skills?

Well, I use:

galrath slash
final thrust
disrupting blow
ether feast
dolyak signet
defy pain
elemental resistance
ressurection

For my attacks, i switch between glarath/final thrust and gash/sever artery based on whether or not i fight fleshy monsters.

The rest is for tanking. My gear enables me high defense/life in stance.

How does vampiric give me more damage over anything else? And if i constantly find myself losing more life than gaining, how does it help?

Marty Silverblade

Administrator

Join Date: Jun 2006

25 Mar 2008 at 03:34 - 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by rike1

My main attack skills cost 8 and 10 adrenaline respectively - but all i hear is sundering is crap for me.

Sundering is bad on swords because of the narrow damage range. The 20% AP won't do as much to boost the damage as vampiric will. Weapons with wider damage ranges such as axes and scythes benefit much more from it.

Quote: Anyone know the actually increase in damage ill do with a 20/20 sundering sword? Will the damage output be more than if i used a furious hilt to gain more adrenaline to use my attack skills? Furious isn't much use. Think of it this way: Over 10 hits you'll get an extra 30 damage with vampiric or an extra point of adr with furious. Furious isn't reliable for building adrenaline; if you're going to run an adrenaline machine take "For Great Justice!" and Dragon Slash.

Quote: galrath slash
final thrust
disrupting blow
ether feast
dolyak signet
defy pain
elemental resistance
ressurection Ether Feast is a bad self-heal, putting ~50 attribute points into inspiration is a waste. If you want a self-heal, take Healing Signet or Lion's Comfort (not to mention your shield is str or tactics based).

Dolyak Signet is bad. If you can hit things, you do no damage. If you do no damage, you're useless to your team.

Defy Pain is a bad elite, some farming builds use it but thats as far as it's usefulness goes. If you're trying to tank, don't. You're much, much more useful if you kill things.

Elemental Resistance is yet another bad skill. Warriors have the best armor (AL wise, at least), so buffing this further is wasted. Not to mention, it's a stance, meaning no IAS.

Quote:

For my attacks, i switch between glarath/final thrust and gash/sever artery based on whether or not i fight fleshy monsters. You'll want more than 2 attacks, you're doing barely any damage, not to mention you can't spam any of them.

Quote:

The rest is for tanking. My gear enables me high defense/life in stance. Tanking is bad, as previously mentioned. You'll survive much better and do things much quicker if you kill things instead.

Quote:

How does vampiric give me more damage over anything else? And if i constantly find myself losing more life than gaining, how does it help? Once you drop Dolyak Sig and add an IAS, you'll be hitting roughly every second. Thats 3 health per second gained, against -1 health degen (2 health lost per second). So really, you're gaining 1 health per second. It won't save you from anything, and you won't be self sufficient, but you're not losing health.

---------------------------------------

This may seem a bit harsh, but you're new, so just try and get on the right path before you waste time tanking or anything like that.

Read me.

masta_yoda

Banned

Join Date: Feb 2007

most hated players in the [game]

R/Mo

25 Mar 2008 at 03:35 - 6

vamps made for damage , unconditional damage, adds the best dps following conjures

Savio

Teenager with attitude

Join Date: Jul 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

25 Mar 2008 at 03:45 - 7

For raw damage, vampiric > sundering > furious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

Sundering is bad on swords because of the narrow damage range. It's not the damage range, it's the max damage. The raw damage gain for sundering swords isn't so bad compared to axes and hammers, but you don't really use swords for spiking stuff.

masta_yoda

Banned

Join Date: Feb 2007

most hated players in the [game]

R/Mo

25 Mar 2008 at 03:50 - 8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

For raw damage, vampiric > sundering > furious.

It's not the damage range, it's the max damage. The raw damage gain for sundering swords isn't so bad compared to axes and hammers, but you don't really use swords for spiking stuff. yeh and swords dont have a insta deepwound attack and u can tell when a spike is coming, when bleed applies

Richardt

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2007

http://friendsofloa.com/forum

Leader-Legion of Avalon [LoA] Alliance-Recruiting PM for info!

25 Mar 2008 at 04:00 - 9

I would use vampiric.

I made the switch on my spear and loved it so much I did it on my warrior.

Absolutely love it.

rike1

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2008

Back off Cynn Mhenlo is mine

E/Mo

25 Mar 2008 at 04:08 - 10

Alright, ill stick with the vampiric, but I am also sticking with my skills.

I know the build im using.

Sir Pandra Pierva

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Sardelec yelling at Tenshi

Angels Of Strife

25 Mar 2008 at 04:14 - 11

warriors are easy to play and anyone who wants to argue that can post a build and not explain and i will try to figure out what is supposed to do.

Weapon switching is your friend with any non caster class

Savio

Teenager with attitude

Join Date: Jul 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

25 Mar 2008 at 04:28 - 12

Weapon switching is important for any class, caster or non-caster.

Scary Raebbit

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

25 Mar 2008 at 04:30 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by rike1

Alright, ill stick with the vampiric, but I am also sticking with my skills.

I know the build im using.

Dolyak sucks shit. You are there to do damage, not sit around with your thumb up your ass futilely chasing monsters around.
Ether Feast is bad. You are speccing into a secondary that you can accomplish with a STR/Tactic heal. Or you could just trust monks.
Defy Pain is shit. Sucks adrenaline and is not even worth the slot compared to other Elites like D-Slash. I guess you can use this if you can't find any other elites, but still... Prophecies has Charge, Battle Rage, or Hundred Blades. Factions has D-Slash. EotN has Crip Slash. And that is just for swords. There also might even be better elites.
Elemental Resistance sucks. No IAS and you are easier to kill if you get targeted by something that doesn't deal elemental damage. Also no cancel stance in case of the above situation.

blue.rellik

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Melbourne, Australia

None

25 Mar 2008 at 04:43 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by rike1

Alright, ill stick with the vampiric, but I am also sticking with my skills.

I know the build im using. Why did you ask help with your silly build if you're going to be stubborn and not accept good advice?

rike1

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2008

Back off Cynn Mhenlo is mine

E/Mo

25 Mar 2008 at 04:49 - 15

Savio

Teenager with attitude

Join Date: Jul 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

25 Mar 2008 at 05:09 - 16

It's the monks' job to deal with damage, not yours. Warriors aren't there to deal a fair amount of damage, they're there to deal the best raw damage in the game. Taking out a large part of your skillbar to doing something you don't need to do hurts your damage output; an IAS alone increases your damage output by 50%.

Self-survivability isn't that strong, especially when you as a warrior are not essential to survival. If you're the last one standing and everyone else is dead, you're not going to be standing much longer - or worse, you're going to try to set up a painfully long res chain. If you don't have defensive skills and you die, there's a problem with your team or your aggroing skills, not your build.

Also, +armor skills don't stack beyond +25 armor, so whatever you thought was happening with all those +armor skills wasn't happening at all.

blue.rellik

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Melbourne, Australia

None

25 Mar 2008 at 05:24 - 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by rike1

I know everyone thinks the skills are shit, but with the gear I run, i take virtually no damage.

I will swap out ether feast for a better healing skill.

I will also swap out dolyak for something- maybe another attack spell or watch yourselves.

However, with defy pain and elemental resistance, plus 5 sentry signets and a 45/-2 shield, and a +5 armor pommel, I take virtually no damage, while having over 700 health.

And with switching some skills around, i can now deal out a fair amount of damage.

If you think you can deal a 'fair amount' of damage then I can deal godly amounts of damage that would shake the heavens compared to yours

masta_yoda

Banned

Join Date: Feb 2007

most hated players in the [game]

R/Mo

25 Mar 2008 at 06:21 - 18

u cant deal out fair amount of damage if ur a warrior with out deepwound except dslashing + conjures

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

25 Mar 2008 at 17:15 - 19

Quote:

Originally Posted by rike1

But I just don't see it. I just really cannot see the benefit. I always find myself losing more health in a fray from attacks and regen than I EVER gain back from the life steal. You're looking for the wrong benefit. Vampiric isn't meant for gaining you a lot of health; vampiric is meant for increasing your damage output. And it does. That 3 extra damage on every hit is better than any other prefix can do (except an elemental against a foe that's weak to that specific element).

Introverted Dimensions

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

25 Mar 2008 at 21:16 - 20

mind posting your build rike? im curious.

Sir Pandra Pierva

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Sardelec yelling at Tenshi

Angels Of Strife

25 Mar 2008 at 21:57 - 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

Weapon switching is important for any class, caster or non-caster. casters can get away with it though.

Pyro maniac

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

25 Mar 2008 at 22:16 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Pandra Pierva

casters can get away with it though. It's PvE, warriors can get away with it as well
The OP should be just fine with completing all 3 campaigns with his bar. Still is a bad bar tho.

Sir Pandra Pierva

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Sardelec yelling at Tenshi

Angels Of Strife

25 Mar 2008 at 22:25 - 23

in pve you can take no skills and complete the game.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

25 Mar 2008 at 22:50 - 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by rike1

I run a W/Me general PvE Warrior and the only question ive ever had about his gear is the sword hilt.

It's Warrior, not Tank.

Quote:

I currently use a vampiric hilt because after asking around and not knowing what to use myself, people said it was the best.

Overall, it is infact, the best.
Sundering has absolutely no damage potential on Swords.

Quote:

But I just don't see it. I just really cannot see the benefit. I always find myself losing more health in a fray from attacks and regen than I EVER gain back from the life steal.

The Vampiric mods are not really for self-heal.
They're for more damage, and armour-ignoring damage at that.

Quote:

This leaves me with a sundering hilt, furious hilt, and elemental hilts. Sundering is bad on Swords, Furious is just bad, Elemental is only really good when used against other Warriors.
Vampiric gogo.

Quote:

1. I'd like to try and do this without switching weapons.
2. If I cannot, what do I need to use for what situation? Just set it to the F keys (F1, F2, F3 and F4.), you get used to it.

Quote:

Might as well edit in skills:

Galrath slash
Final thrust
disrupting blow

These are my attack skills. Rest are defense/res/stances/shouts ^_^ Can you name those other skills?
By the way, Sever Artery + Gash is your Deep Wound -- -20% health, and healing, and makes things die ever so faster.

Consider using them.

Crom The Pale

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

Ageis Ascending

25 Mar 2008 at 23:35 - 25

I really do understand where he is coming from. Untill you actually see the damage dealt by a realy good build like Dragon Slash you can't fully apreciate just how little damage your dealing with a slightly broken build.

With Dolyak + Defy Pain you will take very little dmg and have great survivablilty, the problem is your not going to dish out any where near the amount of damage you could with a different build.

Take your build to the Master of Damage(on training grounds next to Balthazars Island) and attack him for about 30seconds. Most good warrior builds will average 60-100 damage per second there with a death occuring between 6-10seconds.

If your build does not fall into that range then the other party members you play with will have to make up that difference in damage.

Also if your playing with the hench monks then I understand your lack of faith in thier abbility to keep you alive, however a real person monking a party is so far superior to the hench that you would likely never need to heal yourself in most missions/quests.

Kern Wolf

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

W/E

25 Mar 2008 at 23:41 - 26

To the OP:

If you're satisfied with your build (meaning, it works for you), then I'd suggest doing this:

-get some req. 9 swords;
-try to pick up a bunch of different sword mods (hilts and pommels)
-mod some of the swords up, and try them out on some side quests to see how effective they are with your build.

You know what skills work for you; it's just a matter of taking some time to find out what type of modded sword might add to how your build is set up. Everyone here (as you can read) has really different opinions on what makes an effective weapon--the fact is, there are a lot of different modded swords that can work, depending on your build. Take some time, and read about what the different mods can do, take a look at your build, and see if any of them can add to what your build is set to do.

For all the advice people are giving, it's not them playing the game, it's you, so what works for them may not work for you. You say your build is great---that's cool, but you've got to invest some time in trying out some different swords to see what works for you.

Good luck...

Trvth Jvstice

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

HALE

26 Mar 2008 at 00:07 - 27

Just get an elemental dmg mod and forget about it. The type of skills and attributes you use are what really determines your damage output. Using a vampiric mod will increase your dmg slightly, but it's not worth the hassle of constantly switching weapon slots if you're just a casual PVE player.

A little extra advise: Never post the skills you're using unless you've researched the forums and pvxwiki and are using a skillbar that has been accepted by the GWG community. Otherwise, your thread will be derailed by people that will rail on you about your (in their words) HORRIBLE skillbar. If you want advise on sword mods, leave it at that. If you were to post the absolute best build and substituted one unusual skill the rest of the thread would be about that skill instead of your question.

kobey

GW Retiree

Join Date: Nov 2005

Sg Unknown [KATE]

26 Mar 2008 at 01:20 - 28

The build is fine. It will work as long as the heros has good skillbars

But you probably be back here searching for better builds when you go harder areas or HM.

As for sword mods, if you only want one and are lazy to switch:

Go sundering. Its advantage over vamp is that you can go afk without any monk support and still stay alive. You will die if you go afk for about 4-5 mins on a vamp sword without monk support.

I Not A Real Doctor

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2006

Mo/

26 Mar 2008 at 16:59 - 29

To be honest, I think that if you are looking for more DPS you are looking in the wrong place. Your build has much much MUCH MUCH more to do with dps than the mod on your sword. Seriously the hilt will be +/- like 3 dps while the build you're using could be +/- 50 DPS. I know how you feel about your build and I'm pretty sure there alot of people were the same way, however it is time to grow up and make a real skill bar if you are this concerned about dps. I would focus on your build before the freakin mods if you are really concerned about your dps.

jimmyboveto

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

Legion of Avalon

26 Mar 2008 at 18:28 - 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by rike1

I know everyone thinks the skills are shit, but with the gear I run, i take virtually no damage.

I will swap out ether feast for a better healing skill.

I will also swap out dolyak for something- maybe another attack spell or watch yourselves.

However, with defy pain and elemental resistance, plus 5 sentry signets and a 45/-2 shield, and a +5 armor pommel, I take virtually no damage, while having over 700 health.

And with switching some skills around, i can now deal out a fair amount of damage. The largest reason you are taking no damage is because the enemy AI attacks the people with the least amount of armor first. You sir, have more armor then you need. Your softies are the ones that are going to be punished. You're a warrior, focus on doing damage, espeically high DPS if you want to take a sword.

Yichi

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2005

Guild Hall, Vent, Guesting, PvE, or the occasional HA match...

Dark Alley [dR]

26 Mar 2008 at 22:27 - 31

Quote:

Originally Posted by masta_yoda

u cant deal out fair amount of damage if ur a warrior with out an IAS...

I fix'd this for you...
Quote:

Originally Posted by trx despair mind posting your build rike? im curious.

scrolling up would have helped...

anyway on to the OP:
Quote:

Originally Posted by rike1

I run a W/Me general PvE tank.. ok nvm. I don't think I can help u afterall... but ill try.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rike1

I currently use a vampiric hilt because after asking around and not knowing what to use myself, people said it was the best. Try researching as to why it would be the best. It is only the best if youre actually doing something. With your less than subpar build, your not actually accomplishing enough for vampiric to be useful to you.

Vampiric is best when you either have a spike or a pure dps build. Any alteration to this and vampiric is pretty worthless. For a sword warrior, you're more likely than not going to have a good dps build that can deal a sustained amoutn of damage over a period of time, which combined with conditions, are what swords do best on a warrior.

One of the main keys in which your build lacks is an IAS (Increased attack speed) buff. Something like frenzy, flail, flurry, etc. will double your damage output and adrenaline gained. Also using your elite to best suit you would be far more practical than using it for a self defense buff. Something like crippling slash or dragon slash would be a much better use of your time than Defy pain would be. Elemental resistance is nice, but mostly used for farming or solo builds. You hero monks or the hench monks even, will have things such as prot spirit or word of healing (any half decent human monk thats not shit will prob have both) to help negate/heal the damage you would take. Besides a buff'd dervish or paragon would run right through you having elemental resistance up and would be just as dangerous as an ele boss would be.

Yuhe Ji

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2008

Los Angeles

26 Mar 2008 at 23:51 - 32

You should not be running around with vampiric. You only take out the vampiric sword when your team meets a group of enemies.