Guild Wars Guru

W/Mo, Good Starting Class?

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Sir Tidus
Wilds Pathfinder
• #21
Quote: Originally Posted by tyla salanari
Power Attack and Seeking Blade are bad. Infact, the majority of Warrior energy attack skills are bad.
Warriors Endurance also denies you of an IAS, which is 50% more damage, and adrenaline gain. Most IAS have bad drawbacks, but what do you think about berseker stance? By the way, power attack is definitely not bad.
Age
Age
Hall Hero
• #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Twin Blade Warriror
nothing wrong with w/mo..just dont use in pvp.. i mean its just pve..wammos..doesnt matter esp if ur beating the game..if ur going to be /mo take rebirth as ur hard rez ^^...i dont mind wammos only in pve but in pvp they r big problem :/ w/mo is perf for pve unless soloing/farming things

i also agree with misterB..if ur w/mo u only need condition removal really.. wouldnt take /e with conjure or shock...save that for pvp.. There is nothing wrong with using it in PvP mending touch and I was using mend ailment at the start of the game.

What Mr.B said is right though and most likely your one and only resser will die most of the time.When you have res signet it means rezoning or fighting all by yourself and not all W/Mo are stereotyped if a Monk see you doing lots of damage then the better.
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Tyla
Emo Goth Italics
• #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Sir Tidus
Most IAS have bad drawbacks, but what do you think about berseker stance? By the way, power attack is definitely not bad. Berserker Stance is horrible.
Flail's drawback is nil in PvE.
Frenzy is perfect if you don't have NF and aren't bad at cancelstance.

Power Attack is definately bad.
It's a spam attack for Warriors, and energy to boot -- which Warrior's lack.
Bull's Strike, really is the only truly decent Warrior attack skill. Maybe Wild Blow -- but you'd be killing your adrenaline.

If you're going to argue that Power Attack is good, I want a decent argument, because it'll need more than "It's definately not bad" to convince me.
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Sir Tidus
Wilds Pathfinder
• #24
Quote: Originally Posted by tyla salanari
Berserker Stance is horrible.
Flail's drawback is nil in PvE.
Frenzy is perfect if you don't have NF and aren't bad at cancelstance.

Power Attack is definately bad.
It's a spam attack for Warriors, and energy to boot -- which Warrior's lack.
Bull's Strike, really is the only truly decent Warrior attack skill. Maybe Wild Blow -- but you'd be killing your adrenaline.

If you're going to argue that Power Attack is good, I want a decent argument, because it'll need more than "It's definately not bad" to convince me. Power attack only costs 5 energy, unless you are spamming it or also using other energy attacks, power attack will not drain that much energy. It has a very good recharge time and does a very good amount of damage. That's why it's good. Just because it's spammable doesn't mean that you have to spam it. It's readily available for use.

I only said what I said because you said: "Power Attack and Seeking Blade are bad. Infact, the majority of Warrior energy attack skills are bad."
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Tyla
Emo Goth Italics
• #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Sir Tidus Power attack only costs 5 energy, unless you are spamming it or also using other energy attacks, power attack will not drain that much energy. It has a very good recharge time and does a very good amount of damage. That's why it's good. Just because it's spammable doesn't mean that you have to spam it. It's readily availiable for use. Still doesn't make it good. You should be using your energy on stuff like Shock, Grasping Earth (Yeah, it's used.), Bull's Strike, Frenzy....
When you've got a spammable energy attack skill, true it's there when you need it, but think about your energy.
Two energy regen > Power Attack. If you're not spamming Power Attack, you're not using it decently, but if you are, you're killing your energy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Tidus
I only said what I said because you said: "Power Attack and Seeking Blade are bad. Infact, the majority of Warrior energy attack skills are bad." What did IAS have to do with that?
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Sir Tidus
Wilds Pathfinder
• #26
Quote: Originally Posted by tyla salanari
Still doesn't make it good. You should be using your energy on stuff like Shock, Grasping Earth (Yeah, it's used.), Bull's Strike, Frenzy....
When you've got a spammable energy attack skill, true it's there when you need it, but think about your energy.
Two energy regen > Power Attack. If you're not spamming Power Attack, you're not using it decently, but if you are, you're killing your energy. Say what? I'm not really into Frenzy (Bull's Strike is ok I guess). I'm just saying that the effect of power attack is good. Even if it have a longer recharging time, I would still use it. I use it in combo with adrenal attacks. So whenever my adrenal attacks are not yet completely charged, I will use power attack. But when adrenaline is charged, it's adrenal skills first.
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Tyla
Emo Goth Italics
• #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Sir Tidus
Say what? I'm not really into Frenzy (Bull's Strike is ok I guess). I'm just saying that the effect of power attack is good. Even if it have a longer recharging time, I would still use it. I use it in combo with adrenal attacks. So whenever my adrenal attacks are not yet completely charged, I will use power attack. But when adrenaline is charged, it's adrenal skills first. Bull's Strike is extremely strong in PvP. And Frenzy's drawback is beyond minimal in GvG.

The effect of Power Attack, yes it's good, but the adrenaline version of it is much better due to being free and ready for spiking or whatever with.
Hence why Executioner's Strike is used in the Eviscerate spike, now Body Blow is being used instead because of less adrenaline needed, mainly.
Zamochit
Zamochit
Furnace Stoker
• #28
It's only when you are consistanly using an IAS like frenzy or flail for a while that you really notice the difference if you stop using it. You are significantly gimping yourself if you arent using one of these stances in pve or pvp.

They seriously increase both pressure damage ~ from your auto attacks, and adrenaline gain to enable you to use your adrenal spike skills. I would estimate that a 33% IAS will increase your overall damage by 50%. If you are using frenzy then I would recomend taking a cancel stance such as rush in case you start to take heavy damage yourself.

Bulls strike is a great skill for the snare (to prevent kiting) rather than the additional damage. True kiting isn't especially common in pve but Bull's Strike is still a valuable asset on a warrior. It is widely regarded as one of the best skills in the game.

The overall choice is yours really.

I am not going to give you a bar ~ I think you need to find something that suits your style of play, but I would strongly recommend having frenzy and rush on your bar and using them for one day. Then go back to not using them the next day. It will feel like you are fighting in slow motion.

On topic ~ for prophecies only players monk is a very solid secondary for any class for ~ a hard res (henchie AI is horrible and rebirth is a fantastic way to avoid a wipe)~ access to both hex and condition removal is also very nice.
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Sir Tidus
Wilds Pathfinder
• #29
Quote: Originally Posted by tyla salanari
Bull's Strike is extremely strong in PvP. And Frenzy's drawback is beyond minimal in GvG.

The effect of Power Attack, yes it's good, but the adrenaline version of it is much better due to being free and ready for spiking or whatever with.
Hence why Executioner's Strike is used in the Eviscerate spike, now Body Blow is being used instead because of less adrenaline needed, mainly. Yeah I use body blow. It's pretty good because I have heroes that use lightening orb to cause cracked armor. Though I would not say that body blow is necessarily better than power attack. I tend to use both. I still don't know about Frenzy though, because I want the enemy to attack me so my other softer party members don't get hurt. I for some reason am not a stance person. It seems to me to be wasting a skill slot to bring a stance just to cancel frenzy. But I guess I can never be sure unless I tried it.
a
arsie
Wilds Pathfinder
• #30
For more damage consider /E for Conjure Frost/Fire/Lightning, while you're at it Shock or some sort of PBAoE or snare if you absolutely want to. Load up on adrenalin skills so you can afford the energy.

The problem is not that you have max 20 energy, the bigger problem is that you only have >> worth of energy regen. So do not only look at energy costs of the spells.

Weakness and Blind, as well as hexes that damage you while you attack (Spiteful Spirit, Empathy) and Soothing Image type adrenalin denial spells are your bain.

/Mo offers you Hex removal and Mending Touch (condition removal). Or /N for Plague Touch: why suffer alone, spread the love. I also like Parasitic Bond, as its cheap and fast, just to add a tiny bit more pressure and a small amount of heal.
tmakinen
tmakinen
Desert Nomad
• #31
Quote: Originally Posted by tyla salanari
Warriors Endurance also denies you of an IAS, which is 50% more damage, and adrenaline gain. *cough* Weapon of Aggression *cough* if you absolutely must run Warrior's Endurance.
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Phineas
Lion's Arch Merchant
• #32
I don't have the guts for PvP, but love the PvE side of this game.

I think Wammo's a great way to start this game. I played my w/mo for about 1 week when I first started before I started a monk primary as well on the back of enjoying that so much.

But the wammo gave me a lot of solo fun early in the game. No need to be level 20 to solo all the Charr on the way to Althea's Ashes, just slap on a 3-pip mending, let energy fully recharge then add balthazar's spirit which will ensure you have enough energy for a breeze, and also helps charge up adrenalin for your attacks. It also teaches you what monks have to look out for (enchant shattering mobs) and gives a little insight into monking which I think a lot of starter warriors do not fully appreciate.

Back then though, there was more fun in terms of pure hack'n'slash, there was no nerf that meant mobs would break aggro and multiple mobs could swarm you and keep hugging you until you cyclone-axed them all to death

As for what secondary to chose later on, it will probably depend just on what you happen to be doing at the time... and for this the ability to save and load templates is a blessing.
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ogre_jd
Wilds Pathfinder
• #33
Quote: Originally Posted by tyla salanari
Berserker Stance is horrible.
Power Attack is definately bad.
It's a spam attack for Warriors, and energy to boot -- which Warrior's lack.
Bull's Strike, really is the only truly decent Warrior attack skill. Maybe Wild Blow -- but you'd be killing your adrenaline.

If you're going to argue that Power Attack is good, I want a decent argument, because it'll need more than "It's definately not bad" to convince me. +34 (at Str 12) damage with a 3s recharge, with no strings attached beyond not missing the blow, isn't bad by any means. Warrior's Endurance, unless you get hit by Blindness, pretty much completely wipes out Energy concerns when alternating 5e skills such as PA and Seeking Blade (only +16 damage at Swords 12, but that's also without strings attached - and with a useful effect when blocked. 4s recharge is still managable).

Bull's Strike, I've found, isn't all that great. Sure, it knocks down and does good +damage, but only to a moving target - in which case the knockdown isn't particularly significant (unless your timing, and that of your teammates, is absolutely perfect, and you get in a big spike during that second it's helpless) since it won't interrupt skill use, and making it completely useless if you're standing toe-to-toe with something.
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Tyla
Emo Goth Italics
• #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Sir Tidus Yeah I use body blow. It's pretty good because I have heroes that use lightening orb to cause cracked armor. Though I would not say that body blow is necessarily better than power attack. I tend to use both. I still don't know about Frenzy though, because I want the enemy to attack me so my other softer party members don't get hurt. I for some reason am not a stance person. It seems to me to be wasting a skill slot to bring a stance just to cancel frenzy. But I guess I can never be sure unless I tried it. Body Blow is better than Power Attack because it's an adrenal skill.
As I've said, energy attack skill thats supposed to be spammed and if not you're not running it effectively, it's a bad skill.

Quote: Originally Posted by ogre_jd
+34 (at Str 12) damage with a 3s recharge, with no strings attached beyond not missing the blow, isn't bad by any means. Warrior's Endurance, unless you get hit by Blindness, pretty much completely wipes out Energy concerns when alternating 5e skills such as PA and Seeking Blade (only +16 damage at Swords 12, but that's also without strings attached - and with a useful effect when blocked. 4s recharge is still managable). Warriors Endurance is denying you of an IAS stance, as I've already said.
Plus the only energy skills you should REALLY put on your Warriors' bar is Bull's Strike, Shock, Grasping Earth, Frenzy, For Great Justice ect.
Plus the problems can be solved with a Zealous weapon, and you can save your elite slot from being wasted.

Quote:
Bull's Strike, I've found, isn't all that great. Sure, it knocks down and does good +damage, but only to a moving target - in which case the knockdown isn't particularly significant (unless your timing, and that of your teammates, is absolutely perfect, and you get in a big spike during that second it's helpless) since it won't interrupt skill use, and making it completely useless if you're standing toe-to-toe with something. Bull's Strike, if it hits a moving enemy, gives the +damage, is a critical, and kd's.
It also negates kiting, if you want disruption, you have other open alternatives, such as Disrupting Chop, Distracting Strike, Distracting Blow (DBlow is quite crap, but the point is disruption skills anyway.)

Tell me how kd isn't significant. 3 second kd (providing you have Stonefist Insignia) is them sitting on their arse for 3 seconds, inable to use skills other than Stances and very few skills like Hex Breaker.
A Leprechaun
A Leprechaun
Desert Nomad
• #35
There has been a lot of good advice in this post, and a lot of elitist BS. In PvE you can run a lot and still be effective, I run Warrior's Endurance sometimes, and it works amazingly, especially with a scythe (or a hammer with increased speed attacks), also Power attack is a good skill, so is Bull's Strike but in PvE Power Attack rapes Bull's Strike, so stop mentioning it.

Back on topic, your secondary doesn't make a lot of difference, most of your bar should be warrior skills, but feel free to play around with skills. /Mo is ok, condition removal and whatnot. /E is ok but the main thing it brings is snares which are more usful in PvP, Conjures are ok.
Necro is pretty fun too, nothing all that effective but really fun to play with. there are some others, just play around until you find something you like.

Hope this helps.

~A Leprechaun~
Savio
Savio
Teenager with attitude
• #36
Quote: Originally Posted by A Leprechaun
In PvE you can run a lot and still be effective In PvE you can run any build and still make it through a campaign and "win"; however, the strength of the build is a separate matter. If your criteria for a warrior build consist solely of "it can kill stuff and make it through campaigns," then yes, Warrior's Endurance and energy attack skills make a terrific build.
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Sir Tidus
Wilds Pathfinder
• #37
Quote: Originally Posted by A Leprechaun
Back on topic, your secondary doesn't make a lot of difference, most of your bar should be warrior skills, but feel free to play around with skills. /Mo is ok, condition removal and whatnot. /E is ok but the main thing it brings is snares which are more usful in PvP, Conjures are ok.
Necro is pretty fun too, nothing all that effective but really fun to play with. there are some others, just play around until you find something you like.

Hope this helps.

~A Leprechaun~ What about /R for a pet? This way you have two people fighting for you instead of one. Is this good?
Sir Pandra Pierva
Sir Pandra Pierva
Forge Runner
• #38
even then its not that great warriors endurance.

and to pets on a warrior.

please no just dont do it.
Stormlord Alex
Stormlord Alex
Grotto Attendant
• #39
Quote: Originally Posted by Sir Tidus
What about /R for a pet? This way you have two people fighting for you instead of one. Is this good? You're wasting 1/4 of your skillbar for something that does sod all unless you sink a substantial amount of attribute points and waste even more skills on it.
Pets are bad, and warrior skillbars are tight.
Pyro maniac
Pyro maniac
Desert Nomad
• #40
Warrior's Endurance can be used with energy attacks to fake an IAS most commonly a hammer with mystic sweep, eremites attack, protectors strike, Pious assault and hammer bash