Short Rant .. maybe it's just me!!!

No, bad players killed PUGs. Bad, as in not newbies or less skill players. But just plain bad. Those that suck but think they're Achilles reincarnate.

I blame their parents.

Well its late and I only want to add my 2 cents to this.

Basically this is true, but the problem is, is that all the players had the ability to say ''Screw you guys, I'm going solo (E.G Henchies, and now Heroes as well) in the first place, Instead of improving themselves and learning how to be a team.

Otherwise the decent people leave to save their own sanity and GWs will be left to rot with the filth.

The reason there are still fairy tales in PUGs is because the decent people can rely on H/H or guildies to get things done and do PUGs once in a while.

GW is now split into 4 parts: 3 campaigns and 1 expansion. Each of these parts are split again into Normal Mode and Hard Mode. Lets not even start talking about PvP because that is not the issue here. PvE alone, the player population is split into 8. There are few incentives for people to replay a mission in the same mode that they have done before, especially if they got the Masters or Bonus.

Pugging in the early parts of the game is easier because people cannot go to Kamadan or EotN to grab their heroes yet. Also there are more new players.
Many people who own Nightfall and EotN will be playing with heroes. Others will be playing with friends, guildmates and alliance mates. Once after Lion's Arch and particularly in the desert and onwards, your guildmates and friends are your best bet. You should make new friends or find a better guild in this forum.

The splitting up of the population forced them to introduce heroes because of empty outposts. Heroes exacerbated the problem by allowing everyone to avoid pugging.

Yeah heh, I know, it was wishful thinking.

Trust me I've been in pugs where people honestly were not intelligent, it's not that they were new, I don't mind new players. It's just the lack of intelligence that bothered me at times.

Used to do things with my Guild back in the day when I ran into those instances.

Guild > Friends > Hero's > Henchman > Solo > pug

That's pretty much sums about 90% of my pug experiences. The 10% were people like me, who got bored of doing it hero way, and wanted to socialize a bit .

PUGs were always bad, it's just that at the beginning everyone was inexperienced, so you didn't really notice that much. It's only when people became more knowledgeable about the game that they began to see the stupidity of most PUGs.

To the OP, Proph was the first campaign so most people are bored with it by now, but h/h are able to do virtually anything.

Wow, why don't you tell me how you all really feel

Really thanks allot for the feed back and more importantly the offers of help. Last night I took the hencies and located an outpost and two mission locations (thirsty and dune). I also wrapped up the Forgotten ones and it's follow up for the extra 15 attribute points. The Misses was out on a work related mission (RL) so I had the luxury of the three - four hours that it took to get it done but I also raised my exploration to 56% explored.

It looks like I will have to rethink a Guild affiliation as well as buying something that can get me some heroes. I really would like to go through GW in the order it was created (I know I am a boring, rigid ol' coot) but I will just get the heroes and put the box back on the shelf 'till I finish Prophecies.

Along that thought, what are the opinions on which way to go for the acquiring of heroes Nightfall or Eye of the North.

Joe

Nightfall will give you access to a bigger selection of Heroes in a short time (they'll need to be leveled up).

EotN will give you 2 at level 20, right away.

I would suggest Nightfall, for the selection.

If I remember correctly, Nightfall gives you four heroes right away (if you are coming from another campaign):

Tahlkora (monk)
Dunkoro (monk)
Meloni (dervish)
Koss (warrior)

Complete a couple of relatively simple quests outside of Kamadan, and you will get your choice of one more Hero...

Sousuke (elementalist)

OR

Jin (ranger)

You should also look for a quest for Olias (a necromancer Hero) in Lion's Arch, which becomes available when you install Nightfall.

Once you have these 6 Heroes, head on back to Prophecies. The Heroes will make life much easier for you (and in my opinion, more interesting, too), I guarantee it.

_____

In EotN you get three Heroes right at the start (practically): a monk, an elementalist, and a mesmer. The others come later after a bit of work.

For my money, I'd go with Nightfall over Eye of the North, and take Sousuke over Jin. Then go back to Prophecies. You have to level up the Heroes, but once leveled, they will outlevel the henches in the Crystal Desert and be a real asset for those missions. Those six Heroes will be a great help for the remainder of the missions in Prophecies and should be all you need to complete that campaign.

I agree 100%. For instance, PUG's in Nahpui always seem to lose. Then I finally henched it and won it first time with masters. This was before I had nightfall.

Now unless my guildies are on, I pretty much herohench everything, because most PUG's simply suck on things that are actually not that hard.

Basically my view as well.

Don't forget your hero's will come with low level weps and very limited skill selection. I had most all the skills in the game when I first got hero's so was nto an issue, but if you only have Proph then go to NF and grab some hero's you will not have many skills to use on them and likely don't have money to spend on max items and runes. If you have more than one Pve Toon then maybe you will have the skills unlocked for them though but just something to think about

Assuming, of course, you either have a credit card or you're lucky and places still have Nightfall in stock in your area. (unlike mine - 7 stores yesterday and none with NF. Had to 'settle for' EotN - fortunately, my disappointment at the lack of Nightfall was mostly wiped away the instant I heard Vekk's voice. Not his best performance, but how can you not like anything that has Maurice LaMarche in it? )

I spend a lot of time in Tyria because it's my favorite campaign & area, but I've been through all the desert areas so many times I feel it's unfair to new players to group with them. I know pretty much every pop-up and every optimal route by now, and the fun in a game like GW is exploring and overcoming challenge: I'd simply spoil the game for them.
Figuring out a way to beat Elona Reach or Thirsty River on your own or with other equally clueless people is fun & rewarding, getting carried through the mission by a bored pro is just... boring.

And this...
...is truth.
When I made my mesmer I ran out of imagination and grabbed a name from a newspaper, thereby making the mistake of giving one of my avatars a real-sounding female name - and she is the only of my cast of avatars who get hit upon by oversexed teens and obvious pedos.

This is a particularly good point. I have played GW for quite some time and am, of course, always seeing "runs" offered for such and such a price. Speaking for myself only, I cannot imagine getting run through anything. The day I am at that point I would simply leave the game. Paying other players to carry me through stuff is just not going to happen. However, I do appreciate sometimes running a mission with an experienced friend who may be more familiar with it than I am.

That said, my standard approach to every new mission, area, dungeon, or quest is to:

(1) Try it on my own with Heroes and/or henches.
(2) If I repeatedly fail, I check with Guru or Wiki for advice and suggestions.
(3) If I am still having problems (which is seldom, by this point), I seek help from guildies and friends.
(4) PUG (always my last resort).

PUGs can be quite fun, but all it takes is one jerk and the experience can turn into something quite unpleasant.

We just finished the desert a few days ago. That was actually the first area that we got into a PUG. Before then it was my warrior and my husbands Ele using henchmen to make up the party.

I have seen a lot of negative about PUGs here but all of the ones that I have gotten into have completed bonus and mission the first time through but one. That one completed both the second try but we changed leaders.


Feel free to PM me in game if you need to make up a group but we'll need a leader. I'm on my first time through the game and so is my husband so most areas we don't know too well.

In game name Camille Eonich

Thanks again fo another offer to help. The situation that I am having trouble getting players with are not the mission/bonus areas but simply trying to get players to explore to the outpost and mission locations from Augury Rock not run through. But, as you can see in this thread I managed with hencies (not that I am not gonna try to PUG with anyone looking to do what I have done). I am going to find the last mission location of the three tests and then start trying to pug the missions (I noticed lts of LFG in the two I have found -- thirsty and despair)

But hey! thanks a gain and I will be looking for you.