I don't like EotN and, until today, I didn't really know exactly why. The game always just irked me, rubbed me the wrong way, you know? But I couldn't really pinpoint WHY it annoyed me, so I kept coming back and giving it another chance thinking it was just me.
Then, today, in HotS L1, I realized why... the entire thing is just packed to the gills with gimmicky cheese and there is really no challenge or tactic to it at all.
First of all, I was already pissed when I got to this point because I was only running through HotS to do the Gladd's Encampment quest, and I literally managed to take EVERY dead end turn before finding the right one. My hences were all dead, save one, so when I saw Erasklion, I intended to die so I could res farther back, closer to where I needed to restart my running from.... my bad.
Here is Erasklion on death's door. Note the 60% DP I built up by simply running around enemies (and getting caught in dead ends), one living hench (who had managed to build up 60% DP long before because I kept using them as distractions), the only buff being an AoS (which failed to keep the idiot H/Hs alive, you'll note... it's only purpose) and my haphazardly designed skillbar.
Here is Erasklion, dead:
This is why I don't like EotN. There's no spirit to it. No challenge. It's just stupid gimmicks like unavoidable "traps" and constant speed/vision debuffs. I just managed to practically solo a level 28 boss who had the benefit of two nearby poison traps and at no point in the process was I even remotely at risk of dying. If I hadn't had the interrupter, the worst case would've been a stalemate.
Why did they even waste their time making this "game"? How did they manage to go from the near-revolutionary Prophecies to this gimmicky crap?
The distinction between challenge and cheese
Ctb
Ouchie
I like cheese
And I bought EotN for HoM not really the content
And I bought EotN for HoM not really the content
Sharkman
He is so "easy" because the only thing he has to damage you with is his spear. All of his skills are just defensive buffs/support. Did you solo the fungal spores that were around him as well?
Kattar
I agree wholeheartedly with you on most points. That's one reason I don't do dungeons. They're not hard tactics-wise. Just easy to get lost in unless you run them all the time. And a sh*t ton of enemies.
HoM was the main draw for most people. New armor. New heroes. Finally see what happened to Gwen.
That's about it.
I was a little disappointed too.
HoM was the main draw for most people. New armor. New heroes. Finally see what happened to Gwen.
That's about it.
I was a little disappointed too.
lacasner
If you want a challenge go PvP, best advice I can think of.
Ctb
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| If you want a challenge go PvP, best advice I can think of. |
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| Finally see what happened to Gwen. |
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| Did you solo the fungal spores that were around him as well? |
Besides, this was just the point I realized it. Maw's dungeons? Not hard. Just packed to the brim with wurms. If you have hours on end to inch along, you can get it through it without breaking a sweat. Menagerie? Not hard, same deal. All the Asura areas full of dinosaurs? Not hard, just stand around wasting time until you've seen all their paths.
It's not "easy", it's just easy. No challenge beyond making sure you inch forward to not trigger enormous hidden enemy popups and making sure you don't stand right in a trap for too long. Prophecies required you to think. EotN just basically requires you to be conscious...
sixofone
I only tried it out during the 5-hour "trial" they offered when it first got released. (I wanted the tinted glasses, and there was no way to accomplish that in 5 hours.)
I don't like EotN. I don't like the imba skills, and especially the philosophy behind the whole "rank in X" system which totally does away with the professions! It simplifies game design, I'm sure, to have everyone running the same bar (i.e., Ursan-way). That way, you know what everyone is capable of and can design around it. But, it also allows: non-Ranger primaries or secondaries to set traps; non-Rits or Necroes to perform (imho imba) summonings; everybody can perform imba, almost constant KD's; etc.
::shudder::
I like the additional Heroes, and the armor, but really dislike the way EotN has so screwed up everything. I won't buy it, nor am I likely to purchase GW2 if this is where they are going with things. I'll stick with reworking my builds in PvE every week or so when they buff/nerf/"balance" skills!
I don't like EotN. I don't like the imba skills, and especially the philosophy behind the whole "rank in X" system which totally does away with the professions! It simplifies game design, I'm sure, to have everyone running the same bar (i.e., Ursan-way). That way, you know what everyone is capable of and can design around it. But, it also allows: non-Ranger primaries or secondaries to set traps; non-Rits or Necroes to perform (imho imba) summonings; everybody can perform imba, almost constant KD's; etc.
::shudder::
I like the additional Heroes, and the armor, but really dislike the way EotN has so screwed up everything. I won't buy it, nor am I likely to purchase GW2 if this is where they are going with things. I'll stick with reworking my builds in PvE every week or so when they buff/nerf/"balance" skills!
Dylananimus
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Originally Posted by Ctb
Not hard, just stand around wasting time until you've seen all their paths.
No challenge beyond making sure you inch forward to not trigger enormous hidden enemy popups and making sure you don't stand right in a trap for too long. |
Cos...it kinda sounds like that's what you think/class as 'hard' *shrugs*
I'm sorry, but unless you do the above with every single boss and dungeon - soloing them I mean - then I don't see the point in this thread. In fact...I really just DON'T see the point.
One minute you say you got dead a lot just because you couldn't find your way, but yet say it's TOO easy with no challenge. Hmmm.
You say there are no tactics involved in playing through, yet you point out the tactics needed later...
"If you have hours on end to inch along, you can get it through it without breaking a sweat."
"All the Asura areas full of dinosaurs? Not hard, just stand around wasting time until you've seen all their paths".
Those above seemed to be your tactics
I really can't work out if you're just bad at the area and are moaning, or that you're trying to impress us by saying you can walk through it 'easy'.
Ctb
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Um, that's pretty much how every campaign goes. Would you rather the areas be packed FULL of enemies so you have no choice but to agro every single one at once, therefore giving you no choice but to kill everything on the way to where you're going? Cos...it kinda sounds like that's what you think/class as 'hard' *shrugs* I'm sorry, but unless you do the above with every single boss and dungeon - soloing them I mean - then I don't see the point in this thread. In fact...I really just DON'T see the point. One minute you say you got dead a lot just because you couldn't find your way, but yet say it's TOO easy with no challenge. Hmmm. You say there are no tactics involved in playing through, yet you point out the tactics needed later... "If you have hours on end to inch along, you can get it through it without breaking a sweat." "All the Asura areas full of dinosaurs? Not hard, just stand around wasting time until you've seen all their paths". Those above seemed to be your tactics I really can't work out if you're just bad at the area and are moaning, or that you're trying to impress us by saying you can walk through it 'easy'. |
I mean, I don't know, maybe I'm just some sort of super genius, but I've never felt the urge to run headlong into a bonfire IRL, so I fail to see how translating that to the digital equivalent with timed traps is a matter of "tactics". That seems more a matter of not suffering from serious cognitive deficiencies.
Or, did you just never play Proph back before the other campaigns came out? Because before there were a ton of overpowered junk skills, you actually had to put some thought into your skill bar, and you had to actually manage the combat. That even entailed switching between enemies during the fight to manage debuffs, interrupts, etc. I realize most people are now familiar with CTRL+Double Click to focus fire on one, then another enemy, but it wasn't always like that.
You used to have to actually PLAY this game...
MithranArkanere
Those traps are really annoying.
If one of their projectiles hit you, you can see a recharge of 3 seconds in them.
But those damm things shoot one projectile to each party member EVERY SINGLE SECOND! And even faster in HM.
They must be fixed. Really.
I'd also add a Lightbringer skill... something like:
Lightbringer's Tranquility:
E:10 C:2 R:20
Skill. For 5..10 seconds, all party members withing range are not affected by environmental effects or traps. (Lightbringer Title)
Given to those that reach rank 8.
That would include both bad and good effects.
If one of their projectiles hit you, you can see a recharge of 3 seconds in them.
But those damm things shoot one projectile to each party member EVERY SINGLE SECOND! And even faster in HM.
They must be fixed. Really.
I'd also add a Lightbringer skill... something like:
Lightbringer's Tranquility:
E:10 C:2 R:20
Skill. For 5..10 seconds, all party members withing range are not affected by environmental effects or traps. (Lightbringer Title)
Given to those that reach rank 8.
That would include both bad and good effects.
Elder III
You have a point, but do consider how you may have felt if you had not played Prophecies, Factions, Nightfall etc... before. For an experienced player GWEN isn't that difficult, but generally speaking it is harder than the first 3 "real" campaigns. Often in the previous campaigns I could sit back and let my heroes and henchies do the work (with the right builds), or just plain not worry about who I had with me, just overwhelm them with numbers. In GWEN I put much more time and attention into what my party members are doing.... more higher level mobs trying to kill you and making sure they don't seems like a challenge to me. xd
I do get the feeling in some ways, that GWEN was produced to simply fill in time until GW2 arrives, but whatever the reason, I am enjoying it. I like the different races/ cultures and while parts of the storyline may be cheesy, they are still fun, even if not as serious seeming. Imo it's a step above Factions, even if not quite on par with NF or Proph. :s
I do get the feeling in some ways, that GWEN was produced to simply fill in time until GW2 arrives, but whatever the reason, I am enjoying it. I like the different races/ cultures and while parts of the storyline may be cheesy, they are still fun, even if not as serious seeming. Imo it's a step above Factions, even if not quite on par with NF or Proph. :s
Darksun
Meh, you're over-stating it. I played through Prophecies before all the high-powered skills came out and it wasn't any harder than EotN.
I agree that the traps are more annoying than anything else, and are a gimicky way of adding difficulty, but I've always liked dead-end dungeons. Not because being lost is so awesome, but I like the CHANCE at being lost, & learning the dungeon based on experience. Nowadays everything is so funneled & linear. You can only go here because the game wants you to go HERE. Boring.
btw, I'm confused as to how the game is so easy if you had a -60 DP in HotS? ....at Erasklion?
So Frost Maw's is easy but you had a -60 DP in HotS cuz you got LOST? I don't know for sure, but sounds like you're not being honest with one thing or another, or game really isn't that easy and you just don't like xyz parts.
I agree that the traps are more annoying than anything else, and are a gimicky way of adding difficulty, but I've always liked dead-end dungeons. Not because being lost is so awesome, but I like the CHANCE at being lost, & learning the dungeon based on experience. Nowadays everything is so funneled & linear. You can only go here because the game wants you to go HERE. Boring.
btw, I'm confused as to how the game is so easy if you had a -60 DP in HotS? ....at Erasklion?
So Frost Maw's is easy but you had a -60 DP in HotS cuz you got LOST? I don't know for sure, but sounds like you're not being honest with one thing or another, or game really isn't that easy and you just don't like xyz parts.
pfaile
play on hm, see how many dungeons you can dart through, see how many end bosses you can solo, with or without consumables.
tmr819
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Originally Posted by Ctb
This is why I don't like EotN. There's no spirit to it. No challenge. It's just stupid gimmicks like unavoidable "traps" and constant speed/vision debuffs. I just managed to practically solo a level 28 boss who had the benefit of two nearby poison traps and at no point in the process was I even remotely at risk of dying. If I hadn't had the interrupter, the worst case would've been a stalemate.
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Although a paragon, Erasklion is on the order of a healing monk boss. The idea is that he keeps his pals buffed and alive and then, failing that, he keeps himself alive. In this type of scenario, if you attempt to kill him and cannot, you fail -- so, it would not be a "stalemate", imo, it would be a defeat. Look at his skill set and tell me how he was supposed to kill you: Erasklion? It's just not what he was designed for.
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Originally Posted by Ctb
Why did they even waste their time making this "game"? How did they manage to go from the near-revolutionary Prophecies to this gimmicky crap?
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Lord High Pwner
The reason theres so many pops is because the instance can hold so many creatures at a time. So to save your comp and their servers some are hidden. I dont know the exact number though i think ive read an article on it, but lets say including heros/hench/NPC's/yourself/pets/Minions/foes the instance can hold 150. how much fun would anything be then?
Also i might be guessing because that pic is bad but it appears theres a hero/hench dead right behind your live Hench and one a little further away. Also i know you said your build was put together hastily, but common sense would say if you planned on running with hench close to the end you would take running skills, and let the hench kill the boss for you. I know from experience the hench are enough to put down any boss especially since you solo'd him right? I will take one final guess and say that, that is the build of choice or force for you and you stunk all the way to the boss blazing cons in nm and came here to rant and rave because hero/hench dont do much talking back.
Also i might be guessing because that pic is bad but it appears theres a hero/hench dead right behind your live Hench and one a little further away. Also i know you said your build was put together hastily, but common sense would say if you planned on running with hench close to the end you would take running skills, and let the hench kill the boss for you. I know from experience the hench are enough to put down any boss especially since you solo'd him right? I will take one final guess and say that, that is the build of choice or force for you and you stunk all the way to the boss blazing cons in nm and came here to rant and rave because hero/hench dont do much talking back.
aapo
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Originally Posted by Ctb
I mean, I don't know, maybe I'm just some sort of super genius, but I've never felt the urge to run headlong into a bonfire IRL, so I fail to see how translating that to the digital equivalent with timed traps is a matter of "tactics". That seems more a matter of not suffering from serious cognitive deficiencies.
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Originally Posted by Ctb
Or, did you just never play Proph back before the other campaigns came out? Because before there were a ton of overpowered junk skills, you actually had to put some thought into your skill bar, and you had to actually manage the combat. That even entailed switching between enemies during the fight to manage debuffs, interrupts, etc. I realize most people are now familiar with CTRL+Double Click to focus fire on one, then another enemy, but it wasn't always like that.
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Balan Makki
Try it in Hard Mode, then tell us if it tastes like Cheese. You obviously need a challenge; hardmode should help you out here. . .
Dylananimus
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Originally Posted by Ctb
Or, did you just never play Proph back before the other campaigns came out? Because before there were a ton of overpowered junk skills, you actually had to put some thought into your skill bar, and you had to actually manage the combat. That even entailed switching between enemies during the fight to manage debuffs, interrupts, etc. I realize most people are now familiar with CTRL+Double Click to focus fire on one, then another enemy, but it wasn't always like that. You used to have to actually PLAY this game... |
Ah well, we all have different perspectives huh 
RedStar
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Originally Posted by Ctb
No, I'm "sad" that they went to all the trouble to create a complicated tactics-heavy battle system and the best they could come up with to make EotN "challenging" was a bunch of unavoidable traps and half the enemies hidden in the damn floor.
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Kusandaa
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Originally Posted by Ctb
No, I'm "sad" that they went to all the trouble to create a complicated tactics-heavy battle system and the best they could come up with to make EotN "challenging" was a bunch of unavoidable traps and half the enemies hidden in the damn floor.
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I remember going into HOS and finding it somewhat hard because no one knew what to expect. It's like the first time we went in an area with destroyer... we had SF heroes. The second time we had switched to air and water nukers because they don't require burning to be effective. Learn from your mistakes like we all do... in general.
StormDragonZ
My opinion of EotN:
Norn Arc is my favorite, I dislike the entire Asura Arc from beginning to end, the Vanguard Arc does nothing except make me hate Gwen even more. The entire thing felt rushed and could have been better; possibly more fair to people who enjoy the casual aspect of it.
Then again, I'm not sure what the phrase "casual gamer" means anymore.
Norn Arc is my favorite, I dislike the entire Asura Arc from beginning to end, the Vanguard Arc does nothing except make me hate Gwen even more. The entire thing felt rushed and could have been better; possibly more fair to people who enjoy the casual aspect of it.
Then again, I'm not sure what the phrase "casual gamer" means anymore.
zwei2stein
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Originally Posted by Ctb
2% bonus + the XP from the L28 boss dying being split between only 2 group members
But, don't worry, I'm sure you know what you're talking about... |
Pay this place a visit, its worth it.
---
On serious note: Challenge in Gw was never, "can i do it?" but "how efficiently can i do it?"
Anyone can do it. You remeber customer base for gw, casuall players, right? They know s*** about combat system, and anet can NOT disallow them from having fun. That, completing stuff. They went to extremes to make it happen.
So, untill you can do full HoS run in 20 minutes, you can shut up about GW lacking challenge.
Randvek
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
On serious note: Challenge in Gw was never, "can i do it?" but "how efficiently can i do it?"
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Painbringer
SHARDS OF ORR in the beginning it made alot of us noobs tell we figured out the gimicks to defeat it Many posts on it daily back then
Many posts on it daily back then
Trvth Jvstice
It sounds like the OP is bad at the game. I would never just rush through an area, letting my H/H get wiped, hoping I can find my way to the end. Make a good team and you should be able to just fight your way to the end with no problem for 95% of the game - most likely in less time than you would have your way (not counting solo builds).
Skyy High
So....bad player gets wiped, repeatedly, by a not terribly hard area, and then manages to (almost) solo one boss with no offensive skills because he got stuck on a trap, is complaining about how gimmicky GW:EN is? How the f*** does this say anything at all about how gimmicky it is? It was just you being horrible, and then almost getting lucky before dying again.
Hailey Anne
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Originally Posted by Ctb
there is really no challenge or tactic to it at all.
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even if you take wrong turns shouldnt matter. Maybe you dont like it because you're not very good?
The dungeons are all very easy and really shouldnt be getting 60%dp
Captain Ironhook
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| 2% bonus + the XP from the L28 boss dying being split between only 2 group members |
Well maybe the wiki was wrong.
cebalrai
Hey Moderators!
You guys are asleep at the wheel YET again...
This is literally the seventeenth "EotN is crap" thread that we have had (yes I counted). Not even five days ago we finally had #16 quiet down.
My question is this: what the hell do you guys do around here? You don't moderate or we'd see some /closed threads and consolidation.
Are you guys really going to let another identical bitchy thread trash this forum yet again? Really? You are???
New moderators please.
You guys are asleep at the wheel YET again...
This is literally the seventeenth "EotN is crap" thread that we have had (yes I counted). Not even five days ago we finally had #16 quiet down.
My question is this: what the hell do you guys do around here? You don't moderate or we'd see some /closed threads and consolidation.
Are you guys really going to let another identical bitchy thread trash this forum yet again? Really? You are???
New moderators please.
Carinae
I have to agree somewhat. I am not a fan of the EotN campaign, and I know several other senior players that feel the same way. The entire campaign is just obnoxious, especially in HM. I mean, I can beat it, but I find myself just raging at some point during the quest/mission/dungeon.
It's just obnoxious. That's the only way I can describe it. KD, snare, snare, KD, interrupt, interrupt, interrupt, another KD and the whole time physicals, with huge IAS buffs, are just beating the shit out of you. It makes Carinae screaming mad.
This is not what GW is all about. Utterly and completely IMBA. It pushes the GW skill set beyond what is intended, and when you are playing with just H/H it really can be frustrating. I don't see how a 'casual' gamer could play EotN and have any enjoyment at all.
That's not to say that I can't beat it, but when I do, I don't feel satisfaction. I just feel relief that it's over. And I know I'm not the only one. This isn't the case with the other chapters in HM. All of the other chapters had tough spots, and frustrating moments, but when all is said and done, they were fun and rewarding. Not so with EotN.
If I wanted to be frustrated and get my ass kicked I'd be playing PvP. I dunno, just my thoughts.
It's just obnoxious. That's the only way I can describe it. KD, snare, snare, KD, interrupt, interrupt, interrupt, another KD and the whole time physicals, with huge IAS buffs, are just beating the shit out of you. It makes Carinae screaming mad.
This is not what GW is all about. Utterly and completely IMBA. It pushes the GW skill set beyond what is intended, and when you are playing with just H/H it really can be frustrating. I don't see how a 'casual' gamer could play EotN and have any enjoyment at all.
That's not to say that I can't beat it, but when I do, I don't feel satisfaction. I just feel relief that it's over. And I know I'm not the only one. This isn't the case with the other chapters in HM. All of the other chapters had tough spots, and frustrating moments, but when all is said and done, they were fun and rewarding. Not so with EotN.
If I wanted to be frustrated and get my ass kicked I'd be playing PvP. I dunno, just my thoughts.
Coraline Jones
I fail to see how you can consider the dungeon "easy" when you wiped your entire party, stuck at 60 DP, and you were helped with PvE-only skills and you were using consumables.
Jake_Steel
Some people's children....
Captain Miken
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Originally Posted by Captain Ironhook
According to official wiki, killing a lv28 foe gives your party 232xp. That is 116 each for a party of two. Every 75xp removes 1% dp. So "2% bonus + the XP from the L28 boss dying being split between only 2 group members" here are only 3 not 6.
Well maybe the wiki was wrong. |
Boss exp is doubled.
IlikeGW
Hey come on there's at least one good thing about GWEN. The water is good looking in a couple areas. If you want to see good looking virtual water for $40, buy GWEN.
Darkobra
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Originally Posted by IlikeGW
Hey come on there's at least one good thing about GWEN. The water is good looking in a couple areas. If you want to see good looking virtual water for $40, buy GWEN.
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