First off, lets not turn this into a debate on why Ursanway is good, or why it is bad. The point of this thread is not related to that debate.
I've noticed a trend with Ursanway groups in Fissure of Woe, Underworld, and Domain of Anguish where the Monks always insist that the Ursans bring the consumable sets...Why is that?
It seems like the monks feel they are exempt from supplying the consumables, and I dont understand why.
Is it because the monks think they are doing all the work? Do they think the Ursans arent doing anything to contribute to the success of the group?
In my opinion, Ursanway groups are an equal partnership between the Ursans and the Monks. The Ursans target enemies, then use a few skills over and over to kill the monsters. With the monks, its basically the same thing: They target specific players who need healing, then use a few skills over and over to keep the party alive.
Without the Ursans, the party doesnt kill anything. Without the monks, the party doesnt last long enough to kill much. Its a symbiotic relationship.
Am I totally missing something here? I dont think so.
What do other people think?
GLF rank 10 Ursan with Con set...
evilseabass
You can't see me
I think you should play a monk and stop whining.
There's nothing to discuss here. It's just how it came together, and people in game are allergic to changing the way things are and thus may look on this thread with contempt.
There's nothing to discuss here. It's just how it came together, and people in game are allergic to changing the way things are and thus may look on this thread with contempt.
gone
what do I think?
I think that all the ursan users should go on strike before the monks do. yeah. that'll show'em.
I think that all the ursan users should go on strike before the monks do. yeah. that'll show'em.
Cale Roughstar
I think that the guy should pay for dinner on dates. It may suck, but it is still how it goes.
Think about it...
Think about it...
cgruber
The wahbulance is on it's way
evilseabass
damn, I knew there was something i forgot to add: 13 year olds need not reply.
Its a valid question. I'm not complaining. I play both roles frequently, and I just want to know why it happens this way.
Its a valid question. I'm not complaining. I play both roles frequently, and I just want to know why it happens this way.
You can't see me
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Originally Posted by evilseabass
damn, I knew there was something i forgot to add: 13 year olds need not reply.
Its a valid question. I'm not complaining. I play both roles frequently, and I just want to know why it happens this way. |
Kusandaa
Monks always had a position of power... upset your monks and see what happens. They hold their teammates' life in their hands.
And well, that's what the community believes in.
When I do DoA, I'm rarely the only monk with cons ('cause I have a set whatever position I'm in) since I tend to run with a guildie monk and he has a set too most of the time. And sometimes we take advantage of that
.
But I believe that not only ursans should carry sets, and I'm talking as a MONK 'cause that's what I've been doing for the past month or so. Monking for ursan groups. I don't mind... and I craft my own sets too!
And well, that's what the community believes in.
When I do DoA, I'm rarely the only monk with cons ('cause I have a set whatever position I'm in) since I tend to run with a guildie monk and he has a set too most of the time. And sometimes we take advantage of that
But I believe that not only ursans should carry sets, and I'm talking as a MONK 'cause that's what I've been doing for the past month or so. Monking for ursan groups. I don't mind... and I craft my own sets too!
hippo942
Maybe thats theres not many Monks around, so they decide to be more picky and demand you guys bring the consumables.
Angelic Upstart
I think that this will disintegrate into a 'for and against' thread and get locked.
BuD
Kinda like pick up games for Hockey when they rent the ice for the night at the local ice rink, Goalies (monks) arent usually asked to kick in for the ice rental (consumables).
Killed u man
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Originally Posted by Angelic Upstart
I think that this will disintegrate into a 'for and against' thread and get locked.
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Pro:
-> Monks are keeping the team alive
-> Monks actually have to use more than 2 buttons
-> Monks can't roll their head over their keyboard
-> EVERYONE can play ursan, only 1/10 Classes is a monk
-> Monks have the ancient position of power, don't expect it to change
Con:
-> Fairness (Everyone pay, everyone get)
-> Monks already didn't have to go to the effort of getting a max title (Ursan) AND they don't have to pay either...
=> Just making a quick point here, you can obviously find more, but in overal you'll find that Monks in fact have the position of "power" in this discussion...
VitisVinifera
yeah, let's quit with the all-too-predictable 'stop QQing' responses, THEY are the real whiners here
it's a legitimate question
Kusandaa hit it though: the monks generally get to make the rules. They will ragequit if they don't get what they want, or will demand so-and-so get kicked or they leave.
I too have played on both sides. But there is some simple math: for a full DoA run, you need 5 consets. There are 5 ursans per team.
I think there's a bit of psychology at work too. As it is perceived, the Ursans have the fun part: they get to kill, be on the front line, and mash keys 1-3. The monks babysit (in a manner of speaking), doing the dirty work, healing allies instead of attacking foes. They also tend to get more blame, all things being equal.
it's a legitimate question
Kusandaa hit it though: the monks generally get to make the rules. They will ragequit if they don't get what they want, or will demand so-and-so get kicked or they leave.
I too have played on both sides. But there is some simple math: for a full DoA run, you need 5 consets. There are 5 ursans per team.
I think there's a bit of psychology at work too. As it is perceived, the Ursans have the fun part: they get to kill, be on the front line, and mash keys 1-3. The monks babysit (in a manner of speaking), doing the dirty work, healing allies instead of attacking foes. They also tend to get more blame, all things being equal.
Tyla
Because they're bad and can't steamroll an area with the most imbalanced skill in the game so they need more power.
/Thread.
/Thread.
You can't see me
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Originally Posted by tyla salanari
Because they're bad and can't steamroll an area with the most imbalanced skill in the game so they need more power.
/Thread. |
I'll have to partially agree with the logic of Vinis here. Monks are always the one that make the rules, but I don't find Ursan playing nearly as fun as monking. In fact, I find it very boring in contrast, and I'm sure I'm not alone. That's not to say I'm against it, I just prefer monking over it.
Angelic Upstart
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Originally Posted by Killed u man
-> Monks have the ancient position of power, don't expect it to change
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zwei2stein
Reall question is why they take 3 "regen, w8" monks and not imbagon + N/Rt healer instead
Oh wait, its the pug stupidity, aint it.
Oh wait, its the pug stupidity, aint it.
zamial
The answer is extremely obvious. You are in a PUG and not a guild group.
U.
R.
S.uch
A.
N.oob
U.
R.
S.uch
A.
N.oob
~ Dan ~
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Originally Posted by You can't see me
I think you should play a monk and stop whining.
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RedStar
Like someone already said, the monks are in a position of power. It's more easy to find an Ursan then to find a healing monk (I think xD).
street peddler
i think ursan is bad for you
BlackSephir
If you're pugging, you are monks' bitch.
Gin Cometh
I think its funny that mostly its the monks that sells the sets ,abiet without ress scrolls.
StormDragonZ
I'm probably the only person in the entire GW community who still doesn't see what makes Ursan Blessing so great. I've never used it except in Blood Washes Blood.
MMSDome
find a balanced group and you wont have to QQ over this.
Joe L.
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Originally Posted by zamial
The answer is extremely obvious. You are in a PUG and not a guild group.
U. R. S.uch A. N.oob |
Kusandaa
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Originally Posted by RedStar
Like someone already said, the monks are in a position of power. It's more easy to find an Ursan then to find a healing monk (I think xD).
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zamial
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Originally Posted by Joe L.
Yet, anyone knows that only are real n*** uses the word n***.
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RedStar
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Originally Posted by Kusandaa
Depends. In DOA I have little to no problems finding groups as a monk. In TOA... it's another story; seems to be much more monks after FoW/UW groups than ursans, and it has discouraged me a couple times this week x]. When I enter TOA AD1 and I see 7 or 8 monks spamming "HBoon LFG FOW HM Ursanway" while only one or two Ursans try to get a group but there's way too many monks... I just map back to my GH, lol.
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Kusandaa
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RedStar
I think it's because the monks want their FoW armor xD. And it's faster (normally) to bring a monk to ToA than to DOA.
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But I see it now. That and FoW/UW require less time than a DoA run. Oh and the chests have "better" loot... if you're lucky enough to get an Eternal or Obsidian blade.
Johny bravo
Why take 3 monks at all. You can easily Clear FoW with only 2 monks in less then an hour. Best time so far is 47 minutes. Over powered yes but this is farming so thats the point.
And like the hockey reference monks don't pay becuase they are the ones doing the job that most people don't want to do. Don't like it then find a monk who will pay.
And like the hockey reference monks don't pay becuase they are the ones doing the job that most people don't want to do. Don't like it then find a monk who will pay.
IlikeGW
Don't take any retarded ass monk like that. I ran ursanway for awhile with a friend and really the most important people are those that can lead the group, and keep them from blowing your run. THAT is a big job, PUG people are insane and keeping them from blowing a clear isn't easy. Meanwhile I haven't seen many monks doing ursanway saying it's hard work, the best always tell me it's actually trivial. So my assumption, haven't tried monking it, but... if someone wants to call all the shots just because their class, they are most likely a total idiot and bad player. Stay away.
Also, general behavior on consumables... DoA everyone pays for a full clear. UW/FoW leader pays but they expect you to play your best and have every right to never take you again if you stink.
Also, I should add, these stupid classist monks are a minority by far. Just avoid any player of any class like that and stick to sane people who aren't pitching shitfits before you're EVEN IN the mission. Huge sign they are trouble if they can't simply get along with others ASAP.
Also, general behavior on consumables... DoA everyone pays for a full clear. UW/FoW leader pays but they expect you to play your best and have every right to never take you again if you stink.
Also, I should add, these stupid classist monks are a minority by far. Just avoid any player of any class like that and stick to sane people who aren't pitching shitfits before you're EVEN IN the mission. Huge sign they are trouble if they can't simply get along with others ASAP.
captain_carter
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Originally Posted by Cale Roughstar
I think that the guy should pay for dinner on dates. It may suck, but it is still how it goes.
Think about it... |
The thing with some women is that they will take the offer as having a hidden subtext, for example:
"so because I'm a woman and inferior I couldn't possibly be able to pay my way, I am too weak to get a job and be able to afford to pay my share of the meal, is that how you see me?"
And so the whole buisness becomes a lot more dangerous.
So my advice, if you are looking for someone to blame for your date not paying for your meal, do not blame the poor guy, blame the staunch feminists that made the whole idea so risky.
As for the debate at hand, I think Monks tend to be in shorter supply, since there is only 1/10 proffessions that is capable of doing the job (i.e. monks, yes this is starting to sound like I'm using my hypothesis as the argument) they therefore have some power over other proffessions. The question of how much "work" is involved is probably irrelevant, you choose which proffession/character you wish to play, if it's too much work for you, choose differently.
I would conclude that it is the numbers of monks 'available' that causes many of them to give themselves quite possibly undeserved power over the rest of the population. I don't thnik this is necessarily right or wrong, they may have more pwer than is deserved, but there are generally (or so I am assuming) fewer monks around and so there will (in any realistic society where greed exists) have to be some kind of extra power held by the monks.
aapo
Quote:
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Originally Posted by evilseabass
It seems like the monks feel they are exempt from supplying the consumables, and I dont understand why.
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Randvek
I Ursan and Monk both, and if people tell me to bring cons on my Monk, I usually take a hike, or at least threaten to. An Ursan with cons is usually much easier to find than a Monk, with or without. Your mileage may vary.
In short, why do Monks get away with not bring consumables? Because they can.
In short, why do Monks get away with not bring consumables? Because they can.
Pyro maniac
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Originally Posted by captain_carter
Of course the problem in this situation is: "is the girl I asked to dinner likely to have feminist views and be offended by my offer to pay for the meal?"
The thing with some women is that they will take the offer as having a hidden subtext, for example: "so because I'm a woman and inferior I couldn't possibly be able to pay my way, I am too weak to get a job and be able to afford to pay my share of the meal, is that how you see me?" And so the whole buisness becomes a lot more dangerous. So my advice, if you are looking for someone to blame for your date not paying for your meal, do not blame the poor guy, blame the staunch feminists that made the whole idea so risky. |
Same for the Ursan - Monks: Ursans groups are most likely to GLF monk. They should pay the 'dinner'.
lyra_song
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Originally Posted by BlackSephir
If you're pugging, you are monks' bitch.
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Malakai1977
If everyone in a DOA team brings Cons, and they are used in order (first party member uses first etc), then monks rarely even have to use theirs.
monks almost always get placed at the bottom of the partylist, and since you really need only 5 consets, they get to keep theirs.
I always play my monk in DoA, and allthough i always have multiple sets along, the simple truth is: the lower you get on the partylist, the less likely you will have to use your consets
monks almost always get placed at the bottom of the partylist, and since you really need only 5 consets, they get to keep theirs.
I always play my monk in DoA, and allthough i always have multiple sets along, the simple truth is: the lower you get on the partylist, the less likely you will have to use your consets
Jetdoc
Remember the monk Thunderhead Keep strike from a couple of years ago? GW still hasn't recovered, IMO... 
Xx_Sorin_xX
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Originally Posted by Joe L.
Yet, anyone knows that only are real n*** uses the word n***.
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oh and on topic:
Since Guild Wars has come out the monks have taken the biggest beating in PvE by other players. What is the stereotypical response when something goes wrong? "Monk's fault" "Learn to heal better Monk" or my favorite "you suck". While deserved at times, they've been blamed more than they've been at fault more than any other class in my opinion.
Give them a break. Oh and before someone quotes this saying "Looks like your not a very good monk."...I don't monk PUG so I'm not really speaking from personal accounts about being insulted when monking.