Ok, this question is for RA and AB mainly, where teams are very usually unorganized. Base your responses on the fact that hex removal will few and far between.
Is the 5% less damage a worthy sacrifice for 20% reduced hexes? It really seems like it is. It's a small damage difference for such a seeminly powerful benefit.
Is there something that I'm overlooking?
Is Lieutenant's Insignia worth it?
Flem
Pyro maniac
Warriors should deal damage. It's bad
the kurzick eater
i wouldn't suggest it, but it isnt going to hurt you that bad.
Flem
K, Warriors should do damage, gotcha. That's not my point at all. I can't really do any damage if I have SS and Insidious Parasite on me the whole time, can I? With little to no monk support, you'd rather be completely shutdown, then deal 5% less damage?
Lets say your doing an average of 20 damage per hit including skills with your sword. That's an average of 1 less damage per hit.
Lets say that SS is lasting an average of 20 seconds. 20% less time is about 4 seconds. 4 seconds is enough for about 6ish hits with a sword under a IAS stance.
So 6 hits x 19 damage = 114 extra damage while not under that hex, instead of the extra 6 damage you would have done once the hex finally dropped, if it did (or else you'd just be totally shut down).
That's not even including any other hexes that would be on you that would also be reduced by 20% in replace of a laughable 1 extra damage per hit.
Damage is does not seem to be the factor here. There must be some other downside to having that insignia then that, or else why doesn't everyone use it??
Lets say your doing an average of 20 damage per hit including skills with your sword. That's an average of 1 less damage per hit.
Lets say that SS is lasting an average of 20 seconds. 20% less time is about 4 seconds. 4 seconds is enough for about 6ish hits with a sword under a IAS stance.
So 6 hits x 19 damage = 114 extra damage while not under that hex, instead of the extra 6 damage you would have done once the hex finally dropped, if it did (or else you'd just be totally shut down).
That's not even including any other hexes that would be on you that would also be reduced by 20% in replace of a laughable 1 extra damage per hit.
Damage is does not seem to be the factor here. There must be some other downside to having that insignia then that, or else why doesn't everyone use it??
Arkantos
The hexes you should be most worried about are quite spammable. With or without the insignia, the hexes can be kept on you indefinitely. In the end, you're doing nothing, unless the hexer is bad and hexes you then completely ignores you. It's quite pointless.
Pyro maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flem
K, Warriors should do damage, ... or else why doesn't everyone use it??
While there are exceptions, you lose anyway if you haven't got a monk. I would only suggest a lieutenants helmet if you could still switch armor in PvP.
And as arkantos said, duration > recharge on most skills so you only waste some energy on the necro.
And if you're really worried about AB, purge signet is a viable choice. Though it's better to ignore and run away.
And as arkantos said, duration > recharge on most skills so you only waste some energy on the necro.
And if you're really worried about AB, purge signet is a viable choice. Though it's better to ignore and run away.
Tyla
Or maybe Pre-Veiling? 
Arky said that these skills are spammable enough, anyway.
Plus if you're a Warrior you should reap the benefit of more damage when possible for a low cost, and not throw it away like that.
Arky said that these skills are spammable enough, anyway.
Plus if you're a Warrior you should reap the benefit of more damage when possible for a low cost, and not throw it away like that.
Jetdoc
The only time I've been tempted to bring a lieutenant's insignia in PvP is in AB, to help counteract the impact of hex snares when running between shrines.
But even that is a poor use of the helm, given that your number one goal in AB is to kill the shrine NPC's as quickly as possible (which the damage reduction slows down).
But even that is a poor use of the helm, given that your number one goal in AB is to kill the shrine NPC's as quickly as possible (which the damage reduction slows down).
Crom The Pale
Its a worthless insiginia, in any aspect of the game. Hexes that will do any damage worth worrying about or impact your abilities(SS/Blured vission) will either be removed by a monk, last short enough to ignore or be reapplied as soon as you clear them.
20% of a 20 second hex is only 4seconds, far to small to make any really impact. If the hex lasts any less then that then its far to short to matter, and the reduction is pointless. Any hex that lasts more than 20seconds will likely recharge intime to be recast as soon as it ends.
20% of a 20 second hex is only 4seconds, far to small to make any really impact. If the hex lasts any less then that then its far to short to matter, and the reduction is pointless. Any hex that lasts more than 20seconds will likely recharge intime to be recast as soon as it ends.
Draginvry
I agree with people who have stated that most hex durations will cover their recharge. If you are really that worried about hexes, bring Hex Breaker or Holy Veil or something that will actually be of use in preventing the hexes. You'll be tossing a skill slot just for hexes, but it will at least be of some actual use.
If you are hexed, just wait it out. A small amount of duration reduction isn't going to really do anything.
If you are hexed, just wait it out. A small amount of duration reduction isn't going to really do anything.
Arkantos
Quote:
Flem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkantos
The hexes you should be most worried about are quite spammable. With or without the insignia, the hexes can be kept on you indefinitely. In the end, you're doing nothing, unless the hexer is bad and hexes you then completely ignores you. It's quite pointless.
Yea, that's true for the most part.
I guess the insignia would be awesome if it made hexes take longer to cast on you by like 20% or something.
Yea, that's true for the most part.
I guess the insignia would be awesome if it made hexes take longer to cast on you by like 20% or something.
Hugh Manatee
Thing I think he's getting at, and I'm finding myself with the math, 5% less damage is almost negligible to a warrior, and we're getting a definite benefit even if it's a very small one. If I whack something for 100 damage, it's only 5 points less, 95, that still hurts. 4 seconds less with a 20 duration hex is 4 seconds less, it can end a stack that much sooner and give me a small window of whupass... also not sure on how the game handles it but wouldn't it mean 1 second less of ineptitude or clumsiness?
Dr Strangelove
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee
Thing I think he's getting at, and I'm finding myself with the math, 5% less damage is almost negligible to a warrior, and we're getting a definite benefit even if it's a very small one. If I whack something for 100 damage, it's only 5 points less, 95, that still hurts. 4 seconds less with a 20 duration hex is 4 seconds less, it can end a stack that much sooner and give me a small window of whupass... also not sure on how the game handles it but wouldn't it mean 1 second less of ineptitude or clumsiness?
It's absolutely useful if you know you're going to be hex stacked in every fight. 20% reduction there is just as useful as 20% blind reduction, and blind is far more spammable than any of the heavy shutdown hexes. 5% damage reduction doesn't matter that much when hexes are reducing your damage by 95%.
However, the trouble comes when you're not fighting hex stackers. Not only do you have 5% lower damage than a normal warrior, but also 20 less armor on that piece and no benefit from an insignia. Since the hex reduction is so small, it's generally not worth the drawback in every other situation. If the meta shifts back to hex spam again, like it was a year or so ago, then by all means go for it.
RA and AB are a little less predictable than the rest of PvP. Sometimes you'll go up against nothing but mending wammos, and that lieutenant's insignia would be completely wasted. Other times, people will be hexing the bejeezus out of you. I'd say your default should be to not bring it, but if hexes become an issue and holy veil/purge sig aren't an option, take it.
However, the trouble comes when you're not fighting hex stackers. Not only do you have 5% lower damage than a normal warrior, but also 20 less armor on that piece and no benefit from an insignia. Since the hex reduction is so small, it's generally not worth the drawback in every other situation. If the meta shifts back to hex spam again, like it was a year or so ago, then by all means go for it.
RA and AB are a little less predictable than the rest of PvP. Sometimes you'll go up against nothing but mending wammos, and that lieutenant's insignia would be completely wasted. Other times, people will be hexing the bejeezus out of you. I'd say your default should be to not bring it, but if hexes become an issue and holy veil/purge sig aren't an option, take it.
Flem
I've never tried it, but is it possible to switch out armor in the middle of a fight in RA/AB?
Dr Strangelove
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flem
I've never tried it, but is it possible to switch out armor in the middle of a fight in RA/AB?
They disabled armor switching in PvP a while back, sometime after Factions came out so you have to make the decision before you go in. Since it's hard to say that every team you face will have heavy hexes, most people just go without it.
Arkantos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee
Thing I think he's getting at, and I'm finding myself with the math, 5% less damage is almost negligible to a warrior, and we're getting a definite benefit even if it's a very small one. If I whack something for 100 damage, it's only 5 points less, 95, that still hurts. 4 seconds less with a 20 duration hex is 4 seconds less, it can end a stack that much sooner and give me a small window of whupass... also not sure on how the game handles it but wouldn't it mean 1 second less of ineptitude or clumsiness?
Getting opponents to very little health and then them getting a heal is more common then you think in RA/AB. That is why warriors need all the damage they can do.
_Nihilist_
Quote:
Damage is does not seem to be the factor here. There must be some other downside to having that insignia then that, or else why doesn't everyone use it??
Quote:
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Not only do you have 5% lower damage than a normal warrior, but also 20 less armor on that piece and no benefit from an insignia.
Additionally, the insignia *is* Lieutenant's, even though it used to be only found on the Helm (Henge of Denravi? mebbe my memory is getting fuzzy). The general attitude seems to be that the Hex duration reduction, even BEFORE the -20 AL to your armor isn't worth the 5% damage output reduction. Hex stacking will still rape. As a player who used to use a Lt's Helm/Insignia, I have found that either a Survivor/Dreadnought's/Brawler's Insignia is better, they have bonuses that help you out without question, as the Lt's is *extremely* situational for the drawbacks that you have to suffer. ~ Nihilist
Crom The Pale
Here is a question, if they changed the insignia to say 10% reduction but were stackable(so 50% reduced duration) would that become a real useable option? (damage reduction down to 2% and stacking as well for a max 10%) Perhaps drop the -60 armor as well since this seams far to extreme on a full set of armor.
Would you be willing to wear 5 of them over extra armor/hp/energy?
Dr Strangelove
Probably not, because they still gimp you for anything but hexes. People take survivor because it's always useful, no matter what you're fighting.
LightningHell
Quote:
Additionally, the insignia *is* Lieutenant's, even though it used to be only found on the Helm (Henge of Denravi? mebbe my memory is getting fuzzy). The general attitude seems to be that the Hex duration reduction, even BEFORE the -20 AL to your armor isn't worth the 5% damage output reduction. Hex stacking will still rape.
If memory serves right, that is correct. However, back then, the helm had 50% reduction instead of 20%.
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Yichi
Yes the old Lieutenant's Helm was only available in Henge of Denravi, and yes it was a 50% reduction. Anet nerfed this helm back in 2006, right after they changed the armor swapping availability in PvP.
In today's game, unless you're using it for a runner of some kind, no a Lieutenant's insignia isn't worth it over the loss of armor and the loss of attributes into something useful like weapon mastery, as any important hex that will be on you will either have a long enough duration that it won't make that much of a difference, or you'll have hex removal, or the short hexes won't matter much anyway. |
