Proposed buff to Spawning Power inherent effect

I find it apsurd that some players prefer a N/Rt speccing in Restoration Magic over a Rt/any, because of the energy management. Sure a Rt primary with a resto rune heals for more, but this doesnt seem to matter, as N/Rt's can spam heal spells better.
IMO, a primary Rt should be better at healing than a secondary, just as a primary Monk is.

So i propose a buff to Spawning Power to increase the desirability of resto ritu's.

Something along the lines of "For every 3 ranks in Spawning Power, your Restoration Magic spells cost 1 less energy to cast (minimum 2 energy)".

The minimum being there to prevent spells costing no energy at 15 SP, or at lower SP combined with Attuned was Songkai.

The minimum could also be 3e. 1e would be too overpowered, while 4e would not be ufefull at all.

What do you tnink?

I'd rather prefer something similar to the divine favor bonus.
e.g. for x points in spawning power you get z bonus healing / weapon spells last q% longer / created entities last y% longer ...

because that line of yours just promotes mindless skill spamming as the N/rt healer does.

wha..? N/Rt's aren't neccessarily mindless. a r3 team w/ r9+ n/rt's would roll a r3 team with r3 n/rt's any day. skill in a proffession/build makes a HUGE difference.

on the note of the spawning buff, nah, i would personally say keep it how it is. all a n/rt is is just an ingenious idea to use soul reaping to form an entirely new and profitable healer.

~LeNa~

I actually agree, it is a creative way to use soul reaping.
But this wouldnt necessarily nerf it. It would stay as effective. It would just make ritu's a bit more desirable. And when there arent any ritu's arround, a N/Rt would still be ok.

I tend to agree with Itsme. But I dont think it should just be restorartion. If your spawning is higher also increase the damage of channeling and communing. Not huge jumps but something big enough to make it fun to be a rit. Or make spirit casting time faster for higher SP.

Good idea to improve sp. I dont mind a necro healer, its a cool idea, but I think that a rit or monk should be able to do it better, its their job.

~the rat~

I think that primary attributes should be useful work for most or at least half of the professions. Divine Favor and Spawning power are out of this.

Spawning power should have an unique 'spiritual' power... like... having a bit of eaxtra armor while under the effect of an spirit, or slightly reduced duration of hexes and all conditions but burning...
Whatever it is, it should work for at least 5 professions.

Channeling and communing dont need a buff, IMO. Channeling is already capable of big spikes, while communing could use certain skill buffs (like Shelter loosing less health when it prevents damage) but overall its ok.

Spawning could use a buff, but adding something simmilar to Divine Favor may not be that effective, nor needed. Spirit Light already heals for 156 at 12 Restoration Magic, 188 at 16, imagine adding something like 30 bonus health to that from a SP bonus. Thats just ridiculous.

How about in range of a spirit this ability kicks in?

I'm going to disagree with this idea. If Spawning Power gets the needed buff, I'd like to see it benefit all the Ritualist's uses and not just a select few builds and one attribute line.

/signed
spawning power is now only usefull in life of spirits and duration of weaponspells
but nothing rly boosts the healing

Agreed, however part of the problem is that Ritualist have two unique aspects. Their pots, and the weapon spells. Spirits to a lesser extent as rangers had them first. Each of those aspects needs to be affected by spawning power to make it 'fair' for all buids.

Concerning the pots I think it would be safe for spawning power to provide 1 energy and 5 health per rank while holding an item. Think about it this way; when you're holding an item you lose the benefits of your weapon and offhand. As a caster this means 12 energy from your focus and upwards of 60 health. In addition there are the benefits of HCR and HRT mods. With this change @12 spawning power you're getting back that 12 energy and 60 health that you would lose.

Spirits should cast faster with each rank. They're just too slow, and can be killed faster than it takes to drop them.

Weapon Spells are a little tricky. Perhaps an 4% energy return when they expire per rank. They really can't compete with Soul Reaping returns as it stands.

I think its fine as it is. A n/rt only beats a primary rit in spamming high energy healing skills, and it takes 12 restoration 12 soul reaping to do that, where as a ritualist only needs 14 restoration. That same ritualist can put 12 in channeling and take advantage of the awesome skills in that line. Ritualists aren't meant to be 100% heal spammers, they are meant to be a combination of damage, support and healing. It's no surprise that another profession can beat them at pure heal-spam.

Ritualists are just fine as they are now without giving them expertise or leadership-style energy gains on their primary attribute.

that's the problem. The n/rt can put 8 in soul reaping (+1 rune) and divide the rest in Restoration and channeling and still achieve the same effect with better e-management.

The N/rt has between 15% (spirit light) and 25!% (ancestors rage) less effectiveness per spell. Soul reaping can also be rather unreliable in harder times when you are having trouble getting kills consistently at the right times. Ritualists can use spirit channeling to get quite a bit of energy anyway and this energy is consistent.

Necros may be able to have near maximum energy nearly the whole fight, but they don't actually get to use their channeling abilities more often to make up for the lack of damage on each cast. 25% less damage on ancestors rage is a lot.


I like Racthoh's idea about bonuses while holding items and spirits casting faster. The energy gain return from weapon spells I am not too sure about, the last thing we need is another class (the first being paragon) which is based around spamming unremovable buffs everywhere.

at the very least they could just buff the health bonus to 5 or 6%. Maybe even give the spirit an armor bonus too, say, 3% additional armor with each rank.

I'd like to see something added as well. Spawning has uses but normally falls short compared to other professions unique attribute. Chanelling and restoration are the popular uses then communing. But if spawning is made to help with energy it kinda repeats everything, energy storage, expertise, soul reaping, leadership those all help with energy already. Would like to see a more original buff personally.

Lets also move all the spawning power skills and minion hp boost from the rit to the necro because rits shouldn't be able to make good minion bombers like necros.

Necros should also have an decrease cost in blood skills because a r/n toucher shouldnt be better than n/r.

Eles should also have a elemental dmg boost to go with their primary attribute because me/e shouldn't be able to be good fast cast daggers.

/sarcasm

I find it interesting how no one has pointed out that Necros and rits seem to have interchanged some of their primary uses here....

For example, one of the better (or at least more sought after) uses of a Necro in most PvE areas is that of an MM. However, with spawning power's unique abilities, we quite frequently have that Rits can make better MMs. Also, while the rit was designed to occasionally heal, we find that the Necro/Rit can now be a very powerful healer by using Soul reaping.

I think it's a fair point that the primary attributes here have blurred the line between Necro and rit... But I guess I don't see any real problem with the way it is now. Rits are more or less my favorite class in the game, so I'm not in a big hurry to see questionable changes made to their skill/attribute lines.

It's mostly on behalf of the entire team's experience.
How much I hate Sway, it depends on both the Monking (Or whatever you want to call it), the melee and the trappers.

But anyone marginly decent would go with a Monk. Prots are reason enough.

However, I like this. Spawning Power in it's current state is absolute junk.
I really think this should be moved into the Ritualist forum, mainly.

Rits using restoration is perfectly fine. Just look at the Rit runner template in GvG. The only problem with N/Rt's is that soul reaping is still too broken.

I heard offering of spirit was good

It requires investment in the Channeling Magic attribute, at least 11 to be effective and worth the elite slot.

How many good rits aren't using channeling, and how many of them need a different elite? Excluding gimmick builds, the only other decent rit elite is Weapon of Remedy I believe. If your rit needs even more energy for some reason, /e and GoLE is ftw.

Because soul reaping is broken you really don't need to buff other primaries.

Please do explain how buffing Spawning Power would break anything.
Every constructive criticism is welcome.

I'd like to see you explain how buffing Divine favor would break anything, if I changed it to "For every 3 ranks in Divine Favor, your Healing and Protection Prayers cost 1 less energy to cast (minimum 2 energy)"

Spawning power should increase with ranks the ability to summon more than 1 spirit of the same type on a battle field, without that a cast of someone automatically deletes your previous casted Spirit. (this silly stuff needs to get removed)

Mean, with R0 Spawning a Rit can cast only 1 Ghost of a type.
with R3 it are then 2, with R9 it are then 4 and with R15 then max 6 spirits of the same type can be summoned.

But this would also mean, that the recast times of ghosts skilsl need all to be seriously reduced to enable this gameplay of a true spirit spammer, who doesn't only spam lots of different Ghosts, but is also able to spam lots of ghosts of the same type.

Immagine a Spirit Spammer build weith like 4 different ghosts on bar and all 4 of them you could summon in a fight 6x to have in the end a spirit army at a place of 24 Spirits XD woah, would that not be awesome ^^?

Also would make then skills, like the Elite "Lord of rituals" alot more sense, to reduce more the recast time to spam quicker your spirit army.

And this buff is easily balancable, to to the fact that other classes have enough skils to easily kill spirits. like mesmers with their unnatural signet, eles with their aoes are so or so natural born spirit killers, and any melee, especially the dervish can be very dangerous for spirit spammers, so i see absolutely no sense in it, why Ritualists got limitaed on the silly point to be able to summon of each kind of spirit max only 1 >.< and this mechanic got then even bound with the summon of other players, that spirits delete each other, of an other ally summons a spirit of the same type of your spirit, that was already on the field. *doh*

Also Spawning Power should do something for energy management.
It should decrease the cost of Summons. Every 4 ranks, Summons skills should cost 10% lesser Energy and Cast Times of Summon skill should be reduced by 1/2 second (so with R16 cast any summons 2s faster)


For this, should get the effects about Weapon Spell Duration get removed and Weapon Spell should receive their old durations, they had, before that change with spawning power being needed to increase the duration of those skills.

This way woould become Spawing Power a really useful and strong leading primary attribute, that would be also good concurrence for Soul Reaping.
Because then the Player has the angony of the choice:

Choose lesser Energy Cost and Cast Tiem for my Summons, or

Choose permanent Energy Gain, when Foes die, what makes summoning also alot easier and is also for Spirit Spammers very interesting, but then would have primary rits at leat have a gould coutner part primary attribute, so that not all summoners go only N/Rit, but alot more would play surely then Rt/N instead ...

Dont twist my words. This isnt about divine favor. And i have made my case as to why i am proposing this. Its only natural that you state exactly why you do or do not think its a good idea, not just throw random ramblings and avoiding the point.

Phoenix Tears:
Your first idea has balance issues. You even ask us to 'imagine the awesomeness' of your idea, and I find it lacking in intelligent, logical thought process. There is a reason why it's not allowed, but I've seen some of your previous posts, and they don't seem to indicate you've actually thought beyond the "hey, it's a cool idea, so let's run with it!" and therefore shown that you do not reflect on the secondary effect of such changes.

I had more to write on your second idea, but I ended up rambling, so I decided to remove it.

/signed for a method to make primary ritualists more desirable.

This statment deals with the pve hero only rt/n. Makes a way better minion master/bomber than a n/?.

rits are overpowered as is. Ashes and weapons spells have no removal other than time and binding rituals ignore the effects of dazed. hmmmmmmmmm
Any skill with vengful in the name is so overpowered it isn't even funny.

sooooooooooooo..........

/not signed

Rit's are fairly well balanced as it is (the best balanced of the non core professions atm). Your suggestion amounts to giving rits their own version of expertise. Thats why.

Spawning power is trash atm, but its better to buff it so that rits are given new and different options and builds, rather then buffing it so that the current builds just have more energy.

Post no apparent structure? Check
Post has bad grammar? Check
Post seems to ramble on with no point? Check
Post mentions points that seem entirely irrelevant to the topic? Check
Post is, dare I say, made of fail? Check

Oh hi there Phoenix Tears!

He did just what you asked him to, but it's not his fault you can't follow a good metaphor when it's presented to you.

My personal opinion how Spawning Power should be handled is not energy gain, but synergy. Spawning power needs far more synergy with all the ritualist's attributes so it can be used with all of them and become a desirable attribute much like fast casting and energy storage for the mesmer and elementalist and divine favor for the monk. Simply put, it needs to benefit all the attributes in a desirable yet not overpowered way. Finding that way is the problem, but when it comes to buffing it only to cater to certain builds, then I'm going to give it a big no.

I'm willing to sign, but this idea needs a bit more work; the protagonists and antagonists to the OP's idea have both proven very good points.

Something is wrong with rits... I was about to choose mine as "main char", because i enjoyed riting . I was used to play builds that required skill.
But... I've to admit that rits have been overnerfed.
Even in PvE, since splinter weapon was hit by today's update, i cant see any use for my lovely rit :'(.

What I'm supposed to do ? Spirit spam while holding Pissed was Manisan ashes ?