FOW clearing with 6 Heros + 1 player.

Carboplatin

Carboplatin

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

[PIG]

W/A

I know i am not the only person to borrow heros from another account to have 6 heros + 1 player and clear FOW. Nor is this a thread to brag or to farm.

This is simply me asking for some suggestions of hero combinations that would speed up this little project of mine and to invite people to try the same and see what times they get. wanna race??

I've only been able to cut it down to 2:10min in NM. I've been using a build similar to the one i see [sms] using to clear. except my heros can't ursan.

I know you can do HM in 55 min with ursan, but ursan is boring so i rather have some fun coming up with builds.

I have a warrior in the screenshot because my second accoutn don't have nightfalls so no paragons skills.

the 2 paras are cruel spears
1. cruel speal
2. spear of lightning
3. spear of redemtion
4. AR
5. Rez
6. fall back
7. Signet of distraction
8. signet of disruption

Kahmu - orders + arcane zeal + support(heals)

Warrior - Eviscerate + interrupts ( prophesies skills only )

Necro - prot monk ( prophesies skills only )

Ogden - Woh Monk ( prophesies skills only )



so any suggestion to make this faster? i want to get it down to 1:30. I don't like to micro the heros, just natural AI.

I would also lilke to see if anyone would like to led me their fully runed/skilled heros, if so leave ign

Racthoh

Racthoh

Did I hear 7 heroes?

Join Date: May 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS], Guild Leader (Not Recruiting)

Consumables would speed it up a bit.

I also wouldn't run any melee heroes as they get confused easily by all of the AoE in FoW.

Richardt

Richardt

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2007

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Leader-Legion of Avalon [LoA] Alliance-Recruiting PM for info!

Also looks like you got alot of extra healing too. Instead of setting up your Necro as a protter, why not set her up as a SS? I see very little in the way of hex removal from the mobs down there.

Warrior heroes are well known for running about the map in confusion. Since your primary account has NF, why not change out your two warriors with two paragons? Have one run say Empathic Removal for getting rid of SS (unless you have someone else that does that) and the other Stunning Strike or Cruel Spear.

Experiment and see what groups you need to kill/what you don't need to kill. Sometimes you can scare up a couple minutes just from that.

Carboplatin

Carboplatin

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

[PIG]

W/A

sry for the confusion, I've long switched out the two warriors from my primary account to the 2 paragons heros and that is how i got the 2hr 10min.

The reason why i set up the necro as a prot is to use the hex removals. The only things that threatens the party are

1. SS
2. Abyassals
3. MS from the hydras

i've tried to replace kahmu with splinter barrage and also a SH ele,
neither one gave any true speed improvements.

Consumables are possible, but i rather rely on the build then the cons.

Any thoughts on Sins? i would imagine their DPS would be higher, but the problems would be

1. the heros AI, and melee scatter from the monks zealots fires.
2. sustainable build where i can go from mob to mob with no breaks, that is the reason i used a nec protter for the soul reaping. The ele and ranger couldn't keep up at the speed of battle. i run from mob to mob using fall back.

i wanted to do turret rangers, but since the last nerf, their dps is lacking.
so paragons are the only options?

Richardt

Richardt

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2007

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Ah I should've thought that's what the necro was doing-I've used a similar build before.

I have a preference towards Necros and Paras-both have fantastic energy management, can deal a ton of damage. Throw in a Rit for some support and you can tear through mobs like crazy. They're not the only way though.

Warrior heroes are good, but like Rac and me pointed out, they have a tendency to run all over the place to escape AoE, and if a monk is hiding behind-say another monsters-they're not smart enough to go around.

A ranged hero on the other hand will still move out of AoE-but not as much.

Sin heroes are an interesting choice. I don't have much experience there, so I'll leave heavy details to more experienced hands. The only thing I can say is that since they're still melee, I'd imagine they would have the same problems as a warrior.

From your screen, it looks like you went into the spider cave, then go the shard wolf by going in through a back way. Have you tried just going through the cave? You'll have some fighting with the spiders, but just push through-that might be quicker than the back way.

Antithesis

Antithesis

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

BrisneyLand

Sphincter Says [What]

W/

I've yet to tackle FoW using 6 Heroes so thanks for posting proof that it'll work.

One thing - I recall Rac saying that Spear of Lightning doesn't get the damage bonus from Order of Pain.

Racthoh

Racthoh

Did I hear 7 heroes?

Join Date: May 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS], Guild Leader (Not Recruiting)

All melee heroes, from what I've seen, do not perform as well as a caster or a ranged physical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antithesis
One thing - I recall Rac saying that Spear of Lightning doesn't get the damage bonus from Order of Pain. I tested it with Mark of Pain which says physical damage and it didn't trigger. As Order of Pain has the same clause of physical damage I can only conclude that it doesn't.

Richardt

Richardt

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2007

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I've never noticed SoL doing anything with Order of Pain.

distilledwill

distilledwill

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2006

Blighty

The Legion of the Blue Blade

R/Mo

As mentioned, it might be an idea to replace the N/Mo with a N/Rt curser:

[build name="Curses Nec" box prof=Necromancer/Ritualist desc= Soulreaping=12+1 Curses=12+1+1 RestorationMagic=3 ][Spiteful Spirit][Reckless Haste][Enfeebling Blood][Barbs][Rip Enchantment][Pure Was Li Ming][Signet Of Lost Souls][Death Pact Signet][/build]


Either that or you could toy around with a build ive been working with, suggested by Dark Spirit:

[build name="Artificer Mesmer" box prof=Mesmer/Monk desc= Smitingprayers=10 Inspirationmagic=10+1+1 Dominationmagic=5+1 Fastcasting=10+1 ][Signet Of Judgment][Bane Signet][Castigation Signet][Hex Eater Signet][Signet Of Distraction][Mantra Of Inscriptions][Succor][Resurrection Signet][/build]

The above build includes loads of holy damage (for your undead mobs) interupts (for your Meteor Showing Hydras), Hex removal (for SS) and a maintained enchant (of your choice, i usually use Strength of Honour, but seeing as you probably wont have any Melee heroes in there I put in Succour to help your monk with energy). If you use full Artificers insignias and a shield this hero actually has armour which rivals a warrior.

Richardt

Richardt

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2007

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Hmmm that artificer Mesmer looks interesting.

I'll have to try that at some point.

Spaced Invader

Spaced Invader

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

Doing FoW NM with 6 heroes is really really really easy. Easier than pretty much any vanquishing or mission in HM (and most of those ain't too hard anyway). Only thing remotely challenging is the burning forest, because you have to pull and move carefully here.

It's kinda lengthy though and I think the running from A to B to C to Z makes up for at least 50-60% of the wasted time (I usually clock at something around 2:00h to 2:30h as well).
Guess I still have to optimize my quest completion sequence.

I usually do it with
-) My Mesmer (basically a Signet of Midnight/Epidemic-Warder with some additional stuff like Empathy, Cry of Frustration) who takes care of the melee monsters)
-) 2 SH Eles packed with AOE Fire Spells (no Fire Storm or Meteor Shower though), who actually are enough to kill any group with 2 monks in a few seconds
-) 2 N/Rt Healers (exactly like in the Sabway build... even without the Minion Bomber battery I still prefer them over any Monk heroes - the inherent e-management via SR is still quite great, and they are simply the masters of keeping health bars red)
-) 1 N/Rt who is a Channeling/Restoration hybrid
-) 1 Wildcard. I actually try different things here. A Mesmer hero to shut down the hydras in the burning forest, an additional SS hero, a paragon, a 3rd SH... thing is, it hardly makes a difference.
The 5 heroes above are already enough to be invincible and burn through everything within seconds. I am also amazed how well the hero AI works:
Whenever I go in to draw the Melees and blind/epidemic them, the ele heroes will always nuke the bunched up groups of monks/casters/rangers even if I don't call any targets.

Guess I should bring something with group movement speed buffs like "Charge!" or "Fall Back!"... that might significantly speed things up down there.

Antithesis

Antithesis

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

BrisneyLand

Sphincter Says [What]

W/

I've been toying with a 6 Hero HM setup for vanquishing, yet to try it in FoW.

The heroes are N/Rt SS Curser, N/Rt Weapon of Fury Resto, N/Rt Weapon of Quickening Resto, N/Rt MM Channeler, P/W Stunning Strike and Me/Mo Vengeance Interrupter. The P and Me are my optionals in what is a pretty defensive setup. I might swap in a couple of MB/RI's for FoW.

Weapon of Fury and Weapon of Quickening have shown promise in testing as strong physical / caster buffs. WoF + Mark of Fury (on the SS) removes the need for an orders D/N as an adrenal engine, I didn't want any enchantment-reliant heroes and I only run WoF with a physical toon. WoQ buffs casters with a 33% recharge reduction, the Mes has 50% recharge in combo with Mantra of Recovery.

Are there enough corpses in FoW to power a minion engine? I guess i'll give it a go and post the builds if successful.

Richardt

Richardt

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2007

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I've heard of people using MM's in FoW, but I don't think the Shadow guys leave corpses for you to mess with.

Shaz

Shaz

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antithesis
Are there enough corpses in FoW to power a minion engine? I guess i'll give it a go and post the builds if successful. Only the skeletons on the Great Battlefield do not leave corpses I believe. Everywhere else there are corpses.

Racthoh

Racthoh

Did I hear 7 heroes?

Join Date: May 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS], Guild Leader (Not Recruiting)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaz
Only the skeletons on the Great Battlefield do not leave corpses I believe. Everywhere else there are corpses. The problem is Shadow Beasts stealing bodies.

Shaz

Shaz

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS]

Well, before Evo and I got comfortable with FoW, the first 2 or 3 times we went in there, we used a MM as we didn't know what to expect. Both of us never do FoW at all before :P. It's certainly not the most optimize to use a MM, but other than the Great Battlefield, the MM seem to keep up 10 minions pretty well. It has SB, Aegis and a hex removal, so it wasn't totally useless at that point. Oh and we use it in both NM and HM also, if that make any difference.

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

Uhm, Imo, take Rac's para hero concept with Sway, cake.

~Super Igor ~

Carboplatin

Carboplatin

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

[PIG]

W/A

Its not that i have problems doing it, its i want to kill faster.

I've tested 2 para + 1 SH ele which is a tiny bit fast but still over 2 hours.

post up if you can do it under 2 hours with out ursan/cons =D

i know there are some out there ^^

Antithesis

Antithesis

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

BrisneyLand

Sphincter Says [What]

W/

Completed all quests on my first attempt in FoW (that's one less statue to get for the HoM) with the team i posted...dead easy, definitely could have been more offensive, I had no idea what was down there so covered most bases.

I'm not a fan of passive Monks, maybe take 3 x N/Rt with your Paras and Derv for healing, buffs and more damage. I ran the following bars alongside a MM, Mes and Para on a second a/c. Even without bombs going off Soul Reaping should be enough energy in NM.

[spiteful spirit][enfeebling blood][barbs][weaken armor][rigor mortis][mark of fury][signet of lost souls][death pact signet]

[weapon of fury][splinter weapon][ancestors rage][mend body and soul][spirit light][protective was kaolai][signet of lost souls][death pact signet]

[weapon of quickening][mend body and soul][spirit light][protective was kaolai][shadowsong][life][signet of lost souls][death pact signet]

Weapon of Quickening's 33% recharge helps the SS. There should be plenty of healing on the N/Rt's so maybe drop the D/N (there's bucketloads of enchant stripping in FoW) for another Paragon, or a Barrage or BHA /Volley Ranger. If taking the D/N, drop Mark of Fury for Mark of Pain and Weapon of Fury for Icy Veins. Blood Ritual might be useful on the SS to power the WoF and WoQ if energy gets low. Hex removal would be useful too.

distilledwill

distilledwill

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2006

Blighty

The Legion of the Blue Blade

R/Mo

Anithesis? who does your N/Rt maintain Weapon of Fury on?

Do they know to cast it on physical attackers and adrenaline dependant characters, or do you have to micro it?

Also, why do you use Mark Of Fury, Id think that with Weapon of Fury would be enought to keep the adrenaline flowing and it might be better to have an enchant removal such as [Rip Enchantment] or something?

not that im knocking it, it obviously works!

Antithesis

Antithesis

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

BrisneyLand

Sphincter Says [What]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by distilledwill
Anithesis? who does your N/Rt maintain Weapon of Fury on?

Do they know to cast it on physical attackers and adrenaline dependant characters, or do you have to micro it?

Also, why do you use Mark Of Fury, Id think that with Weapon of Fury would be enought to keep the adrenaline flowing and it might be better to have an enchant removal such as [Rip Enchantment] or something?

not that im knocking it, it obviously works! WoF is auto-cast on physicals, WoQ is auto-cast on casters, no micro needed. I ran a God-mode D-slasher - either WoF or Splinter Weapon was on me most of the time, it was the same for the Paragon hero.

WoF is cast on multiple physicals, buffing each individually. MoF is cast on the victim, benefiting all. Neither WoF nor MoF are needed but it was a neat alternative to a dedicated Orders hero to help me spam SY and to power Stunning Strike on the Paragon.

I had Pain Inverter on the bar and never once had WoQ cast on me, so heroes are pretty impressive with weapon spell targeting. Splinter Weapon was occasionally cast on the Mes instead of WoQ, it didn't matter as FoW was a cakewalk...I remember going on a chestrun as a noob and thinking it was so hardcore that i haven't been back prior to today


I agree enchant stripping is good, i had that on the Mesmer. Weaken Armor and Rigor Mortis are both optional.

Carboplatin

Carboplatin

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

[PIG]

W/A

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antithesis
Completed all quests on my first attempt in FoW (that's one less statue to get for the HoM) with the team i posted...dead easy, definitely could have been more offensive, I had no idea what was down there so covered most bases.

I'm not a fan of passive Monks, maybe take 3 x N/Rt with your Paras and Derv for healing, buffs and more damage. I ran the following bars alongside a MM, Mes and Para on a second a/c. Even without bombs going off Soul Reaping should be enough energy in NM.

[spiteful spirit][enfeebling blood][barbs][weaken armor][rigor mortis][mark of fury][signet of lost souls][death pact signet]

[weapon of fury][splinter weapon][ancestors rage][mend body and soul][spirit light][protective was kaolai][signet of lost souls][death pact signet]

[weapon of quickening][mend body and soul][spirit light][protective was kaolai][shadowsong][life][signet of lost souls][death pact signet]

Weapon of Quickening's 33% recharge helps the SS. There should be plenty of healing on the N/Rt's so maybe drop the D/N (there's bucketloads of enchant stripping in FoW) for another Paragon, or a Barrage or BHA /Volley Ranger. If taking the D/N, drop Mark of Fury for Mark of Pain and Weapon of Fury for Icy Veins. Blood Ritual might be useful on the SS to power the WoF and WoQ if energy gets low. Hex removal would be useful too. congrats on the finish. you remember how long it took you?

Antithesis

Antithesis

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

BrisneyLand

Sphincter Says [What]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by R Langdon
congrats on the finish. you remember how long it took you? Given it was my first attempt at FoW I cleared everything before taking the quests just to be on the safe side. I had no idea where the quest givers were nor the optimal sequence to follow. It took me over 3 hours to complete, i'm sure that time can be significantly improved.

The build was more defensive than needed, I don't plan on repeating the exercise but if i did i'd probably try it with 2 N/Rt's and 4 Paragons, or 3 of each.

distilledwill

distilledwill

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2006

Blighty

The Legion of the Blue Blade

R/Mo

Just like to say thanks for pointing me in the direction of WoF N/Rt, I used it in FoW last night with a 2 para backline (empathic removal (mot) and cruel spear(com)), another N/Rt healer (WoR) and an Artificer Mesmer. (and a couple of players)

It all worked a treat. Cheers.

Abedeus

Abedeus

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jan 2007

Niflheim

R/

How about something like:

1. SY/TNTF Paragon (Me)
2. Defensive Anthem Para
3. N/Rt healer
4. N/Mo healer with hex removal
5. D/N Orders + support
6. SH Ele + splinter weapon
7. SH Ele + convert hexes

this? No frontliners, but D/N can be set to use a scythe and act like a tank (perma +100 AL is better than pure tank ;o).

DarkSpirit

DarkSpirit

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

Redmond

Interesting build, Antithesis. Some comments:

A target can only have one weapon spell active at one time. So if you have Splinter Weapon, then you cant have Weapon of Fury on you and so on.

Your WoQ N/Rt, is the one casting all the spirits, so if he dies, or if he can't cast spirits because he is being attacked, then Spirit Light would cause a health sacrifice for both N/Rt. Would it be better if you balance the spirit casting responsibility to both N/Rt?

Is Shadowsong the best choice there?

Not sure if heroes use wielder's boon properly. But with all these weapon spells, that maybe useful?

Carboplatin

Carboplatin

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

[PIG]

W/A

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abedeus
How about something like:

1. SY/TNTF Paragon (Me)
2. Defensive Anthem Para
3. N/Rt healer
4. N/Mo healer with hex removal
5. D/N Orders + support
6. SH Ele + splinter weapon
7. SH Ele + convert hexes

this? No frontliners, but D/N can be set to use a scythe and act like a tank (perma +100 AL is better than pure tank ;o). way too defensive of a team. you will definitely be able to clear the place, but the mobs down there are not that powerful.

Abedeus

Abedeus

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jan 2007

Niflheim

R/

Yeah, I changed DA para to stunning strike from other thread. I'm already at 8/11 quests, but gotta go sleep... Hope I won't get error while I'm afk.

But it works. I got few deaths at the beginning, as I was getting used to the build and Skeletons surprised me. Then second almost-wipe thanks to the fact, that my friend didn't change heroes to guard, but to fight and luring was VERY hard. But it works.

Antithesis

Antithesis

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

BrisneyLand

Sphincter Says [What]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
A target can only have one weapon spell active at one time. So if you have Splinter Weapon, then you cant have Weapon of Fury on you and so on.
Heroes don't seem to replace one offensive weapon spell with another, eg. if i had SW on me, WoF was not cast until SW expired, which is why i took Mark of Fury in addition to WoF. SW was always on someone, including Minions. Weapon of Quickening was only cast on casters, occasionally Gwen ended up with Splinter Weapon but overall it worked well and was easy to micro if need be.

Quote: Originally Posted by DarkSpirit Your WoQ N/Rt, is the one casting all the spirits, so if he dies, or if he can't cast spirits because he is being attacked, then Spirit Light would cause a health sacrifice for both N/Rt. Would it be better if you balance the spirit casting responsibility to both N/Rt? Two spirits on the WoQ is not a problem. Besides, there's no room on the Weapon of Fury for a spirit - if i'm going to spec into Channeling for WoF i might was well take AR/SW as well, freeing up a couple of slots on another hero.

Quote: Originally Posted by DarkSpirit Is Shadowsong the best choice there? Shadowsong provides 90% miss by firing off 5 secs of Blind every second or so on multiple targets (spread further by Epidemic), protecting both spirits and covering the backline against anything that slips through the minion meatshield. I much prefer Blind to wards or Aegis as 90% miss owns face and Shadowsong can be up 99% of the time.

Try a Blindbot Hero and see how much less work your healers need to do. I can't justify a dedicated slot to a Blindbot - they're reliant on enchants (bad idea in FoW) and you get Weakness & Cracked Armor in AoE form with a SS Nec. I wanted a team setup that included Deep Wound, Weakness, Cracked Armor, Dazed and Blind - Shadowsong was the obvious solution once i started digging into the Communing line, nothing else in Communing is worth taking in general PvE.

Quote: Originally Posted by DarkSpirit Not sure if heroes use wielder's boon properly. But with all these weapon spells, that maybe useful? Wielder's Boon is too conditional to bother taking as not everyone will have a Weapon Spell on them all the time. With two spirits Mend Body and Soul is more effective at condition-stack removal and Spirit Light is too good to drop. I did try Weapon of Warding and Resilient Weapon, neither are needed and the problem with both is they will remove WoF, WoQ or SW.

Here's the full 6 Hero setup i used in FoW. Overall it's a pretty defensive setup - it was my first attempt so I preferred to go a bit slower than do it twice. If i was to do it for speed, i'd probably go in with 1 Imbagon, 3 Paragon heroes, 3 N/Rt (Curser with Rip Enchantment, WoF, WoQ/WoR). Or 1 Imbagon, 2 Para, 1 Signet Mes, 3 N/Rt.

[build name="Minion Bomber" prof=Necromancer/Ritualist Death=12+3+1 Restoration=10 Soulreaping=8+1][Jagged Bones][animate bone minions][death nova][blood of the master][putrid bile][soothing memories][protective was kaolai][signet of lost souls][/build]

[build name="SS Necro" prof=Necromancer/Ritualist Blood=3+1 Curses=12+1+1 Soulreaping=12+1][spiteful spirit][enfeebling blood][barbs][weaken armor][rigor mortis][mark of fury][signet of lost souls][death pact signet][/build]

[build name="WoF Restorer" prof=Necromancer/Ritualist Channeling=10 Restoration=12 Soulreaping=8+1+1][weapon of fury][splinter weapon][ancestors rage][mend body and soul][spirit light][protective was kaolai][signet of lost souls][death pact signet][/build]

[build name="WoQ Restorer" prof=Necromancer/Ritualist Communing=11 Restoration=10 Soulreaping=10+1+1][Weapon of Quickening][Mend Body and Soul][Spirit Light][Protective Was Kaolai][Shadowsong][Life][Signet of Lost Souls][Death Pact Signet][/build]

[build name="Vengeful Rezmer" prof=Mesmer/Monk Fastcasting=11+1 Domination=10+1+1 Inspiration=10+1][mantra of recovery][power lock][cry of frustration][drain enchantment][power drain][remove hex][epidemic][vengeance][/build]

[build name="Stunning Striker" prof=Paragon/Warrior Spear=10+1+1 Motivation=10+1 Leadership=11+1 Command=1][stunning strike][go for the eyes][vicious attack][finale of restoration][hexbreaker aria][aria of zeal][frenzy][signet of return][/build]

Why?Weapon of Quickening buffs the Rezmer's recharge to 50% (modified version of DarkSpirit's build) and buffs other casters with 33% recharge, very handy. Swap the WoQ Restorer for Sab's Weapon of Remedy Hero if taking a Physical team. Weapon of Fury + Mark of Fury powers the adrenal engine of the Stunning Striker. It also opens up the secondary profession for my D-Slasher instead of taking Enduring Harmony. Swap WoF for Weapon of Remedy or Icy Veins if not taking physicals. Shadowsong for melee hate, 90% miss is a good thing. Minions for a meatshield, AoE damage and a Necro energy machine. GFTE for Paragon energy management, to trigger Finale of Restoration (i'm also spamming Save Yourselves!) and to buff Minion damage. Weaken Armor as a cover condition and to buff damage vs Physicals for the party and Minions. Rezmer interrupts + Stunning Strike + Epidemic for caster hate. All Mesmer interrupts recharge 50% faster under Mantra of Recovery + Weapon of Quickening. Two spirits + Mend Body and Soul for condition removal. Hexbreaker Aria for caster hex removal, Remove Hex for spot hex removal on physicals. Vengeance because it rocks as a battle rez on a MoR Mesmer. The Vengeance deaths cause no DP and provide corpses for Minions. Replace with a hard rez if desired. Vengeance is the only enchantment in the party. It doesn't really matter if it gets stripped, there are plenty of other rezzers in the group. Frenzy because it's 33% IAS, the Paragon is rarely targeted and its used wisely under fire. I couldn't justify taking a skill like Anthem of Flame to refresh Aggressive Refrain every 10-15 seconds when only two physicals are in the group. Soothing Memories + PwK on the bomber for +24 Armor, an extra party heal + cheap heal. Swap out for whatever you like, I found 3 x PwK drops helped against AoE.
I've been using this 6 Hero setup while Vanquishing. Not perfect for FoW but the trip was a cakewalk considering i had no idea what i would face. There was a lot of pressure on the team in the cave as i over-agro'd the spiders but it held up really well, predominately because of Shadowsong and the meatshield.

For HM Norn point farming in Varajar Fells I take the WoQ N/Rt, a Vengeful Rezmer and dump AR/SW on a Minion Bomber. It has no problems against the Ice Imps and Frozen Elementals, Shadowsong and Minions takes care of physical beasties.

knoll

knoll

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2005

Washington State.

[ToA]

W/

SY! Paragon
3 Paragon heros
Rit/Mo with hex control and splinter/AR
2 monks (Could go with one, but do not know how well hero monks are)
D/N orders or N/Rt order/Splinter

Antithesis

Antithesis

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

BrisneyLand

Sphincter Says [What]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by knoll
SY! Paragon
3 Paragon heros
Rit/Mo with hex control and splinter/AR
2 monks (Could go with one, but do not know how well hero monks are)
D/N orders or N/Rt order/Splinter That's 8. The thread is for 1 player + 6 Heroes.

Rt heroes suck at energy management.
The D/N is enchantment-reliant, enchant-stripping is heavy in FoW.
Hero Monks are duds compared to N/Rt's - they're slower to react to healing, have poor energy management, can't keep up with condition removal and have no offense. This leaves prot and hex removal as their saving grace. Prot's always reactive and is not needed, hex removal can be offloaded to an offensive character.

knoll

knoll

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2005

Washington State.

[ToA]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antithesis
That's 8. The thread is for 1 player + 6 Heroes.

Rt heroes suck at energy management.
The D/N is enchantment-reliant, enchant-stripping is heavy in FoW.
Hero Monks are duds compared to N/Rt's - they're slower to react to healing, have poor energy management, can't keep up with condition removal and have no offense. This leaves prot and hex removal as their saving grace. Prot's always reactive and is not needed, hex removal can be offloaded to an offensive character. Are you serious? N/rt can remove hexes, and that is what over half of FoW is. D/N Orders is amazing, what are Skales going to kill it, no. As there are going to be enchantments on all the characters. Conditions in FoW is a joke, really why would you walk in traps anyways when you are using 5 ranged paragons? The spider cave, lol poison, I hope you do not carry a condition removal for that, ever heard of Heal Party? Energy management you shouldn't equip more then 5 energy spells on monk heros without GoLE. Slow reaction on monk heros, just because the hero monk bars don't have all healing skills on the bar like N/rt doesn't mean they react any slower.

My bad on the 8 guys, ups, Like I said you could probably do this with 1 monk.

Antithesis

Antithesis

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

BrisneyLand

Sphincter Says [What]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by knoll
Are you serious? N/rt can remove hexes, and that is what over half of FoW is. D/N Orders is amazing, what are Skales going to kill it, no. As there are going to be enchantments on all the characters. Conditions in FoW is a joke, really why would you walk in traps anyways when you are using 5 ranged paragons? The spider cave, lol poison, I hope you do not carry a condition removal for that, ever heard of Heal Party? Energy management you shouldn't equip more then 5 energy spells on monk heros without GoLE. Slow reaction on monk heros, just because the hero monk bars don't have all healing skills on the bar like N/rt doesn't mean they react any slower.

My bad on the 8 guys, ups, Like I said you could probably do this with 1 monk. The D/N is good in a Paragon-heavy party and is a solid Hero build, no arguments there. I've used it a lot but it's always missed something for me. I can't justify a Hero slot to a D/N when I can absorb it's roles into characters with better offense and better defense. A D/N isn't as beneficial as it could be in FoW, try doing more than just the beach and the cave. Under heavy enchant stripping energy can easily fail even with high Mysticism, you've also got to deal with Nature's Renewal.

Barbs and Mark of Fury can be slotted onto an SS for a similar effect to Dark Fury and Order of Pain and we still have room for AoE Weakness, AoE Cracked Armor or an enchant strip, Mark of Pain or block removal, a rez, energy management and Spiteful Spirit. The party healing of the D/N is best suited to a tertiary healer role as a bar-topper. It doesn't often have more than 4 enchants up out of 6 weakening Mystic Healing and Vow of Piety. It has no anti-spike or direct healing other than a self-heal touch skill and self-preservation enchants. Healing can be slotted onto a N/Rt with Spirit Light, Mend Body & Soul and Protective was Kaolai and we still have room for Splinter Weapon, Ancestor's Rage and an adrenal+energy buff in Weapon of Fury. The D/N's benefits are covered, it's weaknesses eliminated.

Hero Monks packing condition-removal will spam until their energy is tanked and there are more conditions in FoW than Poison. Don't forget Blind, Dazed, Weakness, Deep Wound, Bleeding, Burning, Crippled... A WoH Hybrid hero monk prioritises Signet of Rejuvenation over WoH or Dwayna's Kiss and will sit idly by while a party member gets spiked to death, it speaks volumes about their abilities when Henchies can do the same job. A Monk can't spam Hex Removal, it's better offloaded to one or two of the Paragons. Save Yourselves and/or There's Nothing to Fear are far better Protection than a Monk can either offer or handle.

With Hex, Conditions, Healing and Prot covered a Monk is no longer needed, making room for a second N/Rt that can offer more to the party. With Weapon of Quickening the second N/Rt buffs the recharge rate on the SS, more than doubles the healing capacity of the party, quadruples condition removal, has two party heals and tosses in Blindness for good measure. If an on-demand Prot is needed, add Weapon of Warding to the build.

Monks can not hybrid between effective offense and defense like a N/Rt. The N/Rt has TWO direct healing spells, that's less than a Monk. Condition removal is spammable on a N/Rt, healing is spammable on a N/Rt, 2 party heals can be slotted on a N/Rt, hex-removal is a non-issue with 4 Paragons to take the burden and Weapon of Warding is spammable on a N/Rt. With all of this under consideration, why would you take Monks?

Hero Rits just plain suck at energy management, Offering of Spirit is the best option but they don't use it until energy bottoms out. It's also a selfish elite and does nothing for the rest of the party unlike Weapon of Fury. We've got all the channeling we need on one N/Rt, healing on two N/Rt's and Hex Removal on the Paragons...there's no need for a weak hero like a Rt/Mo.

I stand by my suggestion of 4 Para's and 3 N/Rts. They should clear it faster and with less problems than 4 Para's, a D/N, a Monk and a Rit. Any one of the D/N, Mo/E and Rt/Mo is a potential weak link that i'd rather eliminate.

Richardt

Richardt

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2007

http://friendsofloa.com/forum

Leader-Legion of Avalon [LoA] Alliance-Recruiting PM for info!

I've always had problems with the D/N no matter where I go.

We've always used N/Rts in FoW (not the MM though-didn't think it would be worth it-gotta try that) and had a great deal of success.

Shaz

Shaz

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS]

If everything goes well, anything that you target should go down quite fast for Mark of Fury and Barbs to be use to their full potential and wasted energy too (though the necro isn't going to worry about that :-P).

Your argument on not using an order isn't that great. We've alway use an order when we FoW cause we always goes with physicals. If you're going to use 4 paras, i'd suggest you use an order. With everyone having at least an enchantment, there simply isn't enough enchant removal for it all. AI don't know target priority, so the order will be at high energy all the time. Nature Renewal will just make OoP and DF go up slower, yes, but you don't really notice that much a different really. I see you have way more hexes and enchantments in your build then the build knoll suggested.

You do not need condition removal on the monk. Just use SoP on one of the para if you want. You're all ranged, so you shouldn't step in any trap, the only other condition is deep wound. Poison doesn't count because you're not suppose to try to remove that. Just go full heal and hex removals, if you want to be safe, put some in prot have PS in there.

The rit used to run OoS, I didn't see it has any energy management problem before. Though now we run a different build on the rit that uses Signet of Removal, work quite nicely with the order, and energy is still plenty.

I can see why you're going with that build though, it's safer. I use something similar when I started FoW. But if you want speed, I'd go with knoll suggestion. I'd post builds but I'm too sleepy now, so maybe tomorrow if it's requested.

Antithesis

Antithesis

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

BrisneyLand

Sphincter Says [What]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaz
If everything goes well, anything that you target should go down quite fast for Mark of Fury and Barbs to be use to their full potential and wasted energy too (though the necro isn't going to worry about that :-P).
It's a Nec with 33% spell recharge, who cares about wasted energy?

Quote: Originally Posted by Shaz Your argument on not using an order isn't that great. We've alway use an order when we FoW cause we always goes with physicals. If you're going to use 4 paras, i'd suggest you use an order. You like it, use it. Others don't. The arguments still hold water. The functionality can be absorbed into an SS and a N/Rt, freeing up a Hero slot for something else. Granted, Dark Fury and Order of Pain are strong Para buffs, but the rest of the D/N is meh...

And who's "we"...this is 1 Player and 6 Heroes. Hero builds are vastly different beasts to Human teams.

Quote: Originally Posted by Shaz I see you have way more hexes and enchantments in your build then the build knoll suggested. Might want to re-read the build. There's two enchantments in the posted build, including Death Nova. I'm not even suggesting the MM and Rezmer be used, making it NO enchantments in 4xPara, 3xN/Rt. Hexes is irrelevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaz
You do not need condition removal on the monk. Just use SoP on one of the para if you want. Agreed. I never take Condition removal on a Monk. Hell, i don't take Monks at all because they're entirely passive and will still find a way to burn through energy without condition removal on the bar. A Monk cannot survive on WoH alone, to be useful it needs some Prot on the bar and they're crap at managing it. SoP is great but a waste when Mend Body and Soul can do the job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaz
The rit used to run OoS, I didn't see it has any energy management problem before. Though now we run a different build on the rit that uses Signet of Removal, work quite nicely with the order, and energy is still plenty. Rit Heroes suck at e-management compared to P's and N's, even the Mesmer has better management.

Post the build, looking forward to it. In the meantime i'll work on a 3 Para 3 Nec Hero build.

Abedeus

Abedeus

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jan 2007

Niflheim

R/

Okay, I just got screwed up because of that new update (I HAD 10/11 QUESTS, ONLY THE HUNT WAS MISSING -.-), but my build is pretty good.

1. SY para (me)
2. D/N orders Melonni
3. N/Rt SS necro (MoM)
4. Stunning Strike hayda
5. N/Mo healer (olias)
6. N/Rt WoR or WoQ necro healer or support (Livia)
7. E/Rt Savannah Heat + Ancestor's Rage (nerfed a bit ;[) + Splinter Weapon (nerfed too ;[)

And it worked pretty well. I had, except for the places mentioned above, problems at the burning forest, because first few spawns were too closely.
Btw, Frenzy on hero is not good, just use Aggressive Refrain. My Hayda maintained it during battle pretty well on her own, that is I didn't have to micro her. Only Melonni is a bit stupid and I had to cast orders for her...

Antithesis

Antithesis

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

BrisneyLand

Sphincter Says [What]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abedeus
Btw, Frenzy on hero is not good, just use Aggressive Refrain. My Hayda maintained it during battle pretty well on her own, that is I didn't have to micro her.
Frenzy's fine with only one Paragon in a party, I had no problems with it. Aggressive Refrain's obviously better when you can spread Paragon skills over 4 party members.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abedeus
Only Melonni is a bit stupid and I had to cast orders for her... Another positive testimonial. If you need to micro heroes to get them to do their job, what's the point taking them?

distilledwill

distilledwill

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2006

Blighty

The Legion of the Blue Blade

R/Mo

I did FoW with 5 heroes and 3 players the other day, but if I HAD to choose 6 heroes, this is how I would set it all up:

[build prof=R/Me name="BHA Ranger" box Exp=12+1+1 Marksmanship=9+1 WildernessSurvival=9+1][Broad Head Arrow][Distracting Shot][Sloth Hunter's Shot][Epidemic][Apply Poison][Natural Stride][Ebon Battle Standard Of Honor][Sunspear Rebirth Signet][/build]#

[build prof=P/Mo name="Empathic Para" box SpearMastery=12+1+1 Leadership=9+1 Mot=9+1][Spear Of Redemption][Disrupting Throw][Anthem Of Flame][Aria Of Restoration][Empathic Removal][Ballad Of Restoration][Aggressive Refrain][Signet Of Return][/build]

[build prof=P/any name="Cruel Spear Para" box SpearMastery=12+1+1 Leadership=9+1 Command=9+1][Cruel Spear][Barbed Spear][Wild Throw]["Go For The Eyes!"]["Stand Your Ground!"]["Fall Back!"][Aggressive Refrain][Signet Of Return][/build]

[build prof=Me/Mo name="Artificer Mesmer" box SmitingPrayers=12 FastCasting=10+1 Inspiration=10+1+1 Dom=2][Signet Of Judgment][Castigation Signet][Bane Signet][Leech Signet][Signet Of Distraction][Hex Eater Signet][Mantra Of Inscriptions][Succor][/build]

[build prof=N/Rt name="Curses Nec" box Curses=12+1+1 SoulReaping=12+1 Restorationmagic=3][Spiteful Spirit][Reckless Haste][Enfeebling Blood][Barbs][Rip Enchantment][Pure Was Li Ming][Signet Of Lost Souls][Flesh Of My Flesh][/build]

[build prof=N/Rt name="Fury Nec" box RestorationMagic=10 Channelingmagic=10 SoulReaping=12+1+1][Weapon Of Fury][Ancestors' Rage][Mend Body And Soul][Spirit Light][Protective Was Kaolai][Life][Signet Of Lost Souls][Death Pact Signet][/build]

[build prof=N/Rt name="WoR Nec" box RestorationMagic=12 SoulReaping=12+1+1][Weapon Of Remedy][Spirit Transfer][Mend Body And Soul][Spirit Light][Protective Was Kaolai][Recovery][Signet Of Lost Souls][Death Pact Signet][/build]

Now, when we did it the other night we also had a Balth Dervish tank to help out, and the Curses necro was a player with Summon Mursaat and Mindbender rather than Rip Enchant and Pure Was Mi Ling and it took us an age. But thats probably because I was the only one to have completed FoW before and even then it was only once!
Now that I know the quests and the route, I know who to pull and where I think this team would hold up very well.

Notice: no enchants to be stripped barr the succor which I maintained on the paras so it wasnt all that essential, just helped the Empathic Para to spam ER when the hexes got overloaded. The combined passive defense of the paras, the shutdown of the mesmer/me on BHA and the excellent healing capabilities of the necros made for a very sturdy team, whilst the ward from me combined with both of the paras and the mesmer caused pretty hefty death to occur quite quickly. no area particularly posed a problem.

zwei2stein

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

This is how i did it:

1) Human SY/TNTF/YMLAD para
2) N/Rt healer (both recup and life)
3) N/Rt SS/MoP with splinter (also bloodsong, super cheap and confuses enemies)
4) D/N orders (with harries grasp in slot 8, worth it imho)
5) Para Command w empathic removal
6) Para Tactics w cruel spear
7) Para Motivation w SoR

It worked rather nicely vs everything expect Hydras, allowed for some serious overagroing (and thus speed increases). 4-monk group at begining went down fast enough.

Guess one copy of cry of frustration would be enough to make hydras easy (nor more kiting from showers, damnit!) No to find character which can use it.

/side note: in fow, you dont need enchant removal, target switching is suficient usually/