Rt vs. Assassin

Which is better? Whats good 2nd profs for them? RT vs. Sin

Its two really different classes.... Rits are mainly backline and support. While Sins are gankers who are good at killing an opponent fast.

So its up to you really. Want to play frontline ganker or backline caster?

I dunno. I hate factions but sins and rits are from there...

Rits, just produce spirits?

You can't really compare these...One is not better than the other(however other opinions will disagree).
For second professions:
Secondary professions for an Assassin
Secondary professions for a Ritualist

No those are only a few of their skills. You can run all dmg if you run channeling magic and lots of heals(conditional) in Restore. Every attribute has a few spirits but the class is more then just a spirit spammer.

rits and sins are both very versitile professions with their skills available to them.... rits have powerful heals and damage output... sins very good for daggers and even better with way of the master + way of the assassin + critical eye at using non dagger weapons their their target profession.

Assassin...first character I ever made. (Bought Factions first, then the other 2 + GWEN after) Still one of my favorites. You can't compare the assassins pure DPS to any other profession.

Whats better? Cheese or Pineapple?
There is no correct answer.

What dps? Warriors DPS easily tops a sin. Maybe you mean the + armor ignoring dmg or the fact that in a chain you can usually add 5 conditions easy.

With the power of [skill]Spirit's Strength[/skill] Rits can BECOME assassins

True, no correct answer. I think maybe the OP was interested in hearing how we (fellow players) play rit or sin (he might as well try it, since he got Factions).

I'm no expert at these classes, and I'm not gonna give pro advice.

I had some fun on my sin. When hard mode first came out I decided that was the class I wanted to try hard mode missions with, since I was playing solo. I figured I'd try to out-damage those level 28+ mobs.

I really liked my rit. Got some real powerful heals, and it's a totally different class from what I've seen in my RPG experience before. I felt pretty invincible going rit + 2 monks. Also, rits have weapon spells, which unlike enchantments cannot be removed so easily. They also seem to have some real powerful damage spiking capabilities.

Full disclosure: I haven't played these characters in 3+ months, many skill changes have been made since.

Rits are more versatile, you can be a support healer, damage dealer, hybrid, spirit spammer, minion master, minion bomber, meleer(with spirit's strength), etc
Sins are more straightforward, critical strikes combines well with lots of weapons not just daggers.

overall both classes can use various weapons however the Rit can play lots of different roles and even mix them together.

as far as farming goes, Sins can farm almost everything with Shadow Form. Rits can farm almost everything with Vengeful was Kahnei(sp).
both are great farmers...

So true. Rits and Sins are very very different classess, one is not better than the other.

I've played both rather extensively and they're both very fun and very powerful characters.

Ritualists are by far the most versatile and unique profession in the game, they can deal lots of heavy direct damage via channeling, lots of indirect damage and disruption via communing and lots of party support and healing via restoration. You can quite easily fill most any niche in a team with a rit, be it healing, party buffing with weapon spells and spirits, direct damage with many channeling spells and once you get spirits strength you can even take the role of a physical damage dealer.
To sum up rits, if you want a strong jack of all trades caster go with rits.

Assassins on the other hand are much more straightforward in their nature, they use daggers and shadowsteps to quickly get close and take down vital targets. As an assassin you will always be pushing for maximum speed and effeciency in killing your targets. Despite being such a focused profession assassins primary attribute allows them a suprising degree of versatility in their choice of weapon, with the addition of skills like way of the master assassins can be extremely deadly with any weapon.
To sum up sins, if you want a quick and deadly weapon master go with sins.

im sorry but sins arent versatile.

Gonna have to agree with the man here. Sins are the opposite of versatile: They're specialized. Not saying their bad, but their purpose is much more narrowly focused than that of a rit. Thus the two professions behave and play very differently. Which is a good thing - they're both very fun to play imo, and can make excellent characters.

A sin does a few things well, but is basically geared to do just those things, so you have a lot of ways and options of going about that one or two things. The rit is designed to support people who do all sorts of things, so if you want to do those roles yourself, you can expect you'll have at least something helpful for just about any role you want to fill as a rit...

There is no physical character capable of producing more damage in a HARD PvE area than an assassin. Since the base damage of the daggers is so low, the "+" (armor-ignoring) damage is generally much greater than for any other weapon. Also, assassins crit more often than other classes, which can cause trigger effects. More than that, assassins hit faster, leading to more damage from on-hit effects (Orders, Barbs, etc.)

Ritualist damage is nice when things don't really matter. As far as I know no ritualist skill does armor-ignoring damage (please correct me if I'm wrong on this), it's all lightning. Ritualist heals are also nice but easily outperformed by a N/Rt due to the energy return of SR.

So, we're left with spirits. Spirits (Union, Shelter, etc) the Ritualist does better than any other professsion. That's what makes the Rit such a slow class to play. The best option for him is to spam his slow-recharging and slow-casting spells.

Sins are much more fun.

personally I like rits...I still have not gotten the hang of the assassin chaining skills, but thats just me.....I have 2 rits (one male and one female)...and enjoy playing them more than any of my other characters....
I must also comment that I am not a good melee person (my warrior is only a few months old---my FIRST warrior, and I dont even have a dervish other than a mule).....
It really depends on your playing style and what you like to do....

[Splinter Weapon]
Any attack spirit

[skill]spirit's strength[/skill][skill]Vengeful was Khanhei[/skill][skill]Brutal Weapon[/skill][skill]Splinter Weapon[/skill][skill]Nightmare weapon[/skill][skill]Vengeful weapon[/skill][skill]Lamentation[/skill][skill]Painful Bond[/skill]

And if we're counting spirits,
[skill]Agony[/skill][skill]Bloodsong[/skill][skill]Destruction[/skill][skill]Gaze of Fury[/skill][skill]Anguish[/skill][skill]Disenchantment[/skill][skill]Dissonance[/skill][skill]Pain[/skill][skill]Shadowsong[/skill][skill]Vampirism[/skill]

Just to top it off, let me throw this out there: A rit with spirit's strength and daggers can put out a lot more armor ignoring damage than a sin...

[skill]Spirit's Strength[/skill][skill]Sight beyond Sight[/skill][skill]Weapon of Aggression[/skill][skill]Golden Fox Strike[/skill][skill]Wild Strike[/skill][skill]Death Blossom[/skill] anyone? Whatcha gonna do about it?

[skill]Attuned was Songkai[/skill][skill]Spirit Channeling[/skill][skill]Wielder's Zeal[/skill][skill]Renewing Memories[/skill][skill]Energetic was Lee Sa[/skill]

All spawning power; all skills necros don't have access to. Use these properly and you can heal till the cows come home, even in situations where nothing's dying yet, and necros will be crying for energy... Not to mention that you have runes and your rit heals will be healing for more than theirs to begin with. In fact, if you look at these skills, you'll realize that with certain combinations you can actually use them and gain energy as a result of casting a 5 energy spell.

I hated playing my 'sin, was never so glad to finally finish a campaign with a char. Of course, I'll be the first to admit I wasn't very good at it - just couldn't get the hang of it. People who *are* good at it ... well, I've seen some 'sins do some pretty amazing things.

On the other hand, I loved playing my 1st rit (when I finally got around to trying it) so much that I made a 2nd one. Spirits rock.

One thing that might help you decide is what type of play style you prefer. If you want fast action, then go with 'sin. If you prefer a little slower pace (and if you've played ele, you'll know what I'm getting at here), then go with rit.

"As far as I know no ritualist skill does armor-ignoring damage (please correct me if I'm wrong on this), it's all lightning."

Rit weapons come in every variety of elemental damage - cold, lightning, earth and fire (my 1st rit used an earth wand thru all 3 campaigns) as well as Dark damage. (All rit collectors weapons and all greens, though, only come in dark or lightning.) From the wiki:

>Dark damage does not ignore armor, but there are no upgrades that provide extra defenses specifically against it.
>Dark damage is not considered elemental damage, and therefore is not affected by skills such as Winter or Ward Against Elements.
>Although it is not affected by any specific armor type, it is affected by non-typed armor, so, for example, a Warrior will still take less damage from it than a Monk would.

Rit > Sin every time.

[Grasping was Kuurong]

just to.. *cough* ..add that to the list.

Ritualists are very very flexible characters. That can play a huge variety of roles, both offensive and defensive. If I were starting out, I'd make a Rit first.

Alright, to first state this, I was clearing talking with my head up my ass that post.
However an assassin can run Moebius Strike to spam Death Blossom, attack a tad faster than you with Critical Agility (for PvE, and this reapplies saving you the casting time of the weapon spell), have far better defense and aren't as easily shut down by enchantment hate. Plus they have a built-in broken energy management primary when it comes to attacking.
Problem there is you sacrifice your elite slot for energy management, something the N never has to do. Also Spirit Channeling is pretty bad, OoS>SC.

The Rt/A build is meant for pvp, not pve. Note that it does have a cover enchant, and further, that it breaks through blocking stances with ease, and is immune to blind, the top two melee-killers... not to mention the absolutely sick spike damage. Stomping unsuspecting rangers into the ground within a few seconds (while they scramble for block stances and blind, only to discover they're ineffective) is priceless.

If we're talking death blossom and pve, though, splinter barrage along with ancestor's rage, spirit rift et al, easily holds it's own, though it's better off supporting melee imo. As far as the rit on it's own... the 330 hard mode solo build, if we're going to keep on in that direction, I suppose, is probably a good showcase of what VwK can do. So far the toughest I've done with my sin is solo normal mode altrumm ruins with [skill]death blossom[/skill] [skill]critical defense[/skill] etc, while my 330 [skill]vengeful was khanhei[/skill] rit can solo hard mode waijun bazaar, hm parts of elite missions. Then again, I haven't tried to do much soloing with my sin lately, I've grown a bit tired of him. I could probably attempt one of those A/E SF nukers, but that seems like it would feel the ele part is doing all the work there...

As for energy management, I find it's well worth it to run [skill]attuned was songkai[/skill] because instead of one elite heal, you can run an entire skill bar of high energy skills nonstop, regardless of the situation.

[skill]spirit transfer[/skill] (Yes, that's 265 healed for 5 energy on a rit primary) [skill]weapon of warding[/skill] [skill]recuperation[/skill] [skill]resilient weapon[/skill] [skill]weapon of shadow[/skill] [skill]recovery[/skill] [skill]rejuvenation[/skill]

Note that the skill points the rit invests in spawning to make these powerful weapon spells cheaper via the elite, AwS simultaneously make the weapon spells last longer as well as a passive benefit (and of course make the spirits more durable, allowing you to spam spirit transfer more often, too.)

If we're talking purely energy efficient heals, then [skill]wielder's boon[/skill], [skill]spirit light[/skill] and [skill]soothing memories[/skill] for strong heals. The rit can cast a sequence of these three with AwS for 436 hp healed, at a cost of a total of... 3 energy nearly every 4 seconds. You're actually regenerating more energy than you're spending, while healing for around 100+hp per second.

My alternative choices (To AwS, when I'm running all resto, that is) are typically either [skill]spirit light weapon[/skill] or [skill]preservation[/skill], they're good skills for a resto rit too.

Then again, I often run a rit healer build on elite missions that uses the humble [skill]mighty was vorizun[/skill] rather than AwS and have no problems either healing or with energy management. Rits have a lot of energy management options available; if you have to resort to playing necro/rit (and giving up effectiveness of heals via runes) I dare say you're doing something wrong. But simply being able to do it well by choice is a testament not only to the skill of the person playing the necro but also to the effectiveness of rit healing...

Well... the A/E SF nuker farmers are pretty weak, to be honest. They can trash stuff in NM, and some in HM... but the armor-dependant ele stuff is just too weak. I've been thinking and thinking of ways to make better farm builds but... I guess I'm just too dumb, still.

Your points are all valid regarding Restoration ritualists being very much viable. However, in any sane party configuration a N/Rt isn't going to have any energy problem whatsoever in PvE. So, then we're back to discussing if the runes on the ritualist are worth the elite on the N, because that's what it boils down to. Maybe they are.

Regarding the Rt/A build it's a little disingenious (not meant as an offense) to claim a Rt is stronger in melee and point to a build that is so much of a gimmick. Yes, of course it can kill stuff. If you run it in RA and AB, I'm sure you will be fine. But stroll into a pvp area where foes know what they're doing and it's going to be "Rend Enchantments" and game over.

Also if we're discussing stances and blinds Assassin's Remedy is far better in that regard... and an Assassin can also bring stuff like Conjure etc.

I think the main reason I like assassins more than ritualists is the speed at which they play. Most roles ritualists fill are very slow-playing, and that drives me mad. To each his own, though.

[ancestors' rage] and [splinter weapon] are reason enough to run a Rit.