Welcome back Taiwan!...Oh, and the whisper bots have returned

In a civil case in court of law you do not need proof beyond a shadow of a doubt, all you need is circumstantial evidence. I'll point you to the O.J. Simpson case. The facts show the proof that it is mostly Taiwan as when they were banned the whispers and gold selling spam stopped or at least went to a bare minimum, now that they have been unbanned they have immediately started again along with the gold spam. One on a jury would just have to put 1 + 1 together to find them guilty of circumstantial evidence. <grin>

1.o.0

Well yeah, for that matter Elves might sneak into your refrigerator and use their telekinetic abilities to spirit the beer away. We could spend pages thinking of various ways in which this metaphor may or may not apply, and reasons the beer may or may not have been stolen. But, at the end of the day, the most logical, and yes I concede not the definitive, conclusion is that Joe and his friends are stealing the beer because it stopped when they left and started when they came back.

2. Um, yes, we do. Sections 8, 10, 11, and 12 of the Guild wars rules of Conduct explicitly state that the whispers that pertain to this topic (from gold sellers) are illegal because they are selling ingame items for real world money.

3 & 4. Well, if you want to bring guilt into this as if this topic were some manner of court room, okay. I don't think anyone else was though. There is, however, another cornerstone of the idea that people are innocent until proven guilty. In most societies that hold the judicial beliefs you mentioned, it is also standard for court rulings to be decided by a group of the defenses peers. Peers, in this case, would be the rest of the GW gaming community, meaning us, who make logical conclusions based on the evidence at hand.
Now, what it more logical;
A) That for some reason all gold sellers in the game packed up and left at the same time as Taiwan's access was restricted, then some time later, just by coincidence the very week that Taiwan is allowed back into the global world, the gold sellers decided to pop back in.

or

B) That the already established community of gold selling botters that make up a minority of the GW-Taiwanese gaming community came back along with the rest of the law abiding and fun to play with Taiwanese?

And who here as mentioned or even implied that all Taiwanese sell gold and bot anyway? Really, the only people I hear doing that are those decrying racism in this topic. If people were saying all Taiwanese were a bunch of gold selling bot using farmers then it would be racism. But I have yet to see anyone do that, well except for those calling this topic racism.

And heck, if it's racist to be against a small minority of an otherwise law abiding group of people that are breaking the rules and ruining my fun in a game... um... okay I guess I'm a racist. Albeit, I would feel this way if these were American, Belgium, Danish, Russian, Australian, Mexican, Mongolian, Terran, or Dropan gold sellers as well.

And in response to another post; the /report feature don't work becuase they whisper you from locations other than your current town and district.

There's also the term: Guilt by association and my parents old saying :Birds of a Feather flock together. <grin> If you drive the getaway car while your friends rob a bank you are still just as guilty as they are.

And yes if the evidence pointed to any of the above I would say and believe the same thing. It's not about racism it's just about the circumstantial evidence. You want proof. Anet turn off Taiwan again for a week and let us see how many whispers and gold selling bots we get. <grin> Really it's already been provin, but, some people are hard headed and want it to be proven time and time again. The evidence clearly points to Taiwan as having a large amount of bots and gold sellers.

But that doesn't matter.
What matters is that it's not the definitive.

No "we" the users can't.
The whispers are a breach IF they are found to be a breach under a certain procedure. Until then - the person is innocent.
And nobody of us performed that procedure. And nobody of us can.

Is THIS the case in GW?


Yes that would make you a person with nationalistic tendencies.
Simply because you are anti-bots but the nationality of the bots has NO influence on this. Yet it seems to be an issue for you.

No they don't. So please stop making things up.
We are not the subject given the authority to make a decision on the basis of certain observations.
So there is no proof.

And secondly - we still only have OJs - not "an" OJ.

Well if you don't want to accept the truth there's no use discussing it with you. By civil court standards they would be guilty by circumstantial evidence without any need of any other elements. The fact is when they were gone there was little to no whispers and gold bot selling. Now that they are back there is. If you're too igmoish to see that then welp there's no hope for you in society. <grin> You even make stupid childish remarks about O.J. Simpson....<shakes head at these wannabe's> That case is the best example of what we are talking about. He won the criminal case and lost the civil case on the same subject matter. Guilt by circumstantial evidence. <grin>

Also in an online game the letter of the law does not apply to the tee because there are other nations, cultures and their own laws to contend with. Therefore we the people of the community because it is not controlled by the letter of the law or specifically our own constitutional laws have the right to judge and accuse. There is no such thing as innocent until proven guilty in the online world as all letters of the laws cannot go that far yet or even be enforced. You're basing your whole arguement on American/English Society/Culture and the rules of democracy and that just don't fly on the internet as we see that people violate the American Laws every single day and democracy doesn't exist all over the world. Thus when in an environment as such the PEOPLE have to take up arms and accuse and procecute the subject matter online within the gaming community which is a forum or within the game itself with the /report feature. Anet has the final say of course, but, it is the people who help them make that decision.

1. OJ is a bad example because we have a case against a very specific person.
And here - we do not.
And then we also have the issue of a person being judged by the appropriate subject.
And here - we do not.
Ohh and I am pretty sure that everytime an account is suspended - that's not the decision of a civil court.

2.http://www.guildwars.com/support/leg...-agreement.php
14. TERMINATION

(a) NC Interactive reserves the right to suspend or terminate this Agreement (including your Software license and your Account) immediately and without notice if you breach this Agreement or willfully infringe any third party intellectual property rights, or if we are unable to verify or authenticate any information you provide to us, or upon game play, chat or any player activity whatsoever which is, in our sole discretion, inappropriate and/or in violation of the spirit of the Game(s) as described in the Rules of Conduct.

Should NC Interactive decide to suspend or terminate this Agreement with a User under any circumstances, the User will lose access to your Account.

(b) You agree that if the Service or your Account is suspended, terminated or cancelled for any reason or length of time, you are not entitled to any reimbursement or refund of any fees or unused access time.


Please find me a place where the users are entitled to "prosecute".

3. The observation is that after the reconnection of Taiwan - there was an increase in whispers.
And that's it.
No conclusions - because we don't have the right nor the means to make them.

Or to lower myself to your level:
You might want to consider using that head for something other then <grin>ing.

I'm closing this thread. It's not going anywhere fast and has too much potential to degenerate even further than it has.