My case for Ursan Blessing

ANet did give us the skill and I don't fault people for using what's available.

What I do fault is the community abusing it and generally being lazy. I can understand using UB in DoA-the mob design there is just bad. And lets not even talk about Mallyx himself. But using UB to do something in NM....that's just lazy right there.

I also fault ANet for making said skill way overpowered, even when compared to the other PvE skills. And I know most people wouldn't have a problem with it if it didn't overwrite your skill bar and give you such overpowered skills. That's why I'm behind the Avatar idea of the blessings-it brings UB back in line with other PvE skills, keeps your skill bar intact and still makes it a viable skill.

Quote:

Quote:

I'd like to have an official from A.net explanation about the Ursan. I think we have pretty much go into all pros and cons. If A.net could explain us why it leave it like it (or plan to change it) it might help every one to accept the situation.

Especially, I am a UB user but I find it boring. I do that because it is efficient. And I am against any skill change. But I made an exception for UB because it goes over the red line. Therefore I am like any one very puzzled about A.net position on it. They kept making change in pvp that are generally useless (imho start another trhread if you want to argue) but does not nerf UB. That why I think the community need A.net to explain their position on this subject.

It is obvious that they know about it (look at the april fool).

May be let's start a petition asking A.net to make a statement on UB?

Have been lurking this site compulsively for more than a year, and wanted to weigh in on the UB/Cons/PVE skills issue as it applies to GW.

People who obsess about UB etc. are pretty obviously playing the wrong game. For those who derive satisfaction from comparisons of their pve accomplishments with other players, or who worry lots about the pve environment, there are plenty of "powercreep," "gearcreep," "raidcreep" subscription games out there ala WOW where such concerns would be legitimate. GW is not one of those.

GW is a pvp focused game with limited pve content. It is "pay once" play however long you like, but IMO, was never meant to be the type of continuing pve content game some players expect it to be. Arenanet has done an astounding job of giving value in return for purchase price in comparison to other entertainment software, giving the illusionary expectation to some that it should be as content rich as other pay as you go games. That expectation doesn't make economic sense.

My understanding of the pve aspect is that in exchange for no monthly fees, it is assumed that the pve content will be less expansive than subscription games, and that instead of pve creep (grind), the player will either transition into pvp or move onto a game with more content after exhausting the paid for existing content.

I will certainly buy GW2, the GW1 games were an incredible entertainment deal. I also hope that the developer considers doing a subscription based game in the future, as the quality of entertainment has been high enough that I would pay monthly for a game where more resources could be allocated to content.

To summarize, how exactly do UB and PvE skills "break" PvE in a limited content game where anyone who spends marginal time can get the "imba" skills and use them? Each player decides how to play the game how they want given the EULA and milieu. If you don't like it, you are certainly welcome to complain, but as many others say in different threads, why do you feel it is your responsibility to arbitrate how others play the given content when the only comparisons it affects are in your mind?

I would point that for many Ursan teams to SUCCEED, they almost exclusively require the use of consumables. This fact in itself should make a statement about the "over powered" state of ursan. (i.e. a team has to blow 7.5k worth of materials and gold to make whatever sum they're attempting to make in whatever area they're in.)

I have personally found that the price of consumables more often than not out-balances the profit I make in the course of an excursion. I have to literally pick up and salvage everything in order to have enough materials for the next consumable set, much less make a profit.

So, as for the "farming" aspect of Ursan... it is vastly inferior to other methods.

The only good/bad/"sin against all players with skill" thing about Ursan is it allows any imbecile with keys 1-8 +c +space to successfully clear an area. That is my only beef with Ursan. Although, even with the baseline requirement of having an IQ of 60 (able to breathe and twitch,) Ursan teams can still fail, which I find quite remarkable...

Quote:

I took a break from GW and came back to this and I don't know much about it but it seems to me that its making everyone the same and dumbing down certain aspects of the game which is definitely something i cannot support because i believe this game should take a certain amount of skill to play effectively

A lot of pro-ursans talk about fun as if fun = no challenge and no variety.

As I have stated elsewhere there is not much point debating what is an economic decision by ANet, not a game balance decision at all.

EotN is the last chance for ANet to make MONEY from GW1 so it has fulfilled two functions:

1) Made EotN necessary for any player to get a pug in elite areas.
2) Made PvE boring so players will be ready to buy GW 2.

Lastly, Ursan's Blessing confirms for us the predominant ANet developers' views that PvE is beneath contempt, and that PvP is the only place worthy of skilled Guild Warring.

The contemptuous view skilled PvE players now have of Ursanway based PvE, not to mention PvP players who were always elitist anyway, will no doubt, in ANet's minds, prepare the GW1 community for the more PvP/PvE combined content in GW2.

I hate that all of this is true.

Original posted by Turtle222

"i don't scold anyone for using UB, but you are better off using that than avatar of balthazaar and have me sneer at you for bringing it."

I used Avatar of Balthazar on my dervish char as main elite for aiming for Legendary Survivor and I succeeded in my 1st. try as playing the game not farming. Hero & Hench way. I guess it's not so bad elite after all. At least not in my attempt for going for LS.

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Right now, I am complete for Ursan. If a skill can simplify the thinking it takes to make a real skill bar go for it. It is quite depressing to go into Hell's Prepice and try a PUG, and during the mission the Nerco is trying to e-denial monsters with malaise with his massive hp amount of 300. Or having a ranger that refuses to continue without rezzing his pet near the Armageddon lord. Normally this wouldn't be a problem, but he has revive animal on his skill bar instead of comfort animal. So while we continue to fight, hes trying to pull the monsters and almost gets us wiped. I don't think I even need to mention all the horrible skill bars I saw there.

Oh well. Theres my little Ursan>PvE rant.

In abbreviation MMORPG - Massive Multiplayer Role-Playing games it is represented to me the most important two first a words: Massive and Multiplayer. It is obvious, that successful on-line project becomes only the one who has managed to collect a lot of players. But how it is possible to involve? Graphics?? Gameability? Excellent world? Not the main thing. The main thing - interaction of players, communities. Not war with monsters is main in such games, but war with others humans. While (or already) I do cannot be allocated in a real life, I try to be allocated in game. But for this purpose the audience, ranks, career is necessary...
If the manufacturer of game makes the rate on PvE, for deduction of players he should enter constantly new ranks, buffs, the weapons. And certainly, monsters for whom all this can be used. But in due course in such game there is an elite of players which have achieved heights. To rise up to their level to the beginner it is difficul}. Months, and even years he should farm, study game, raise qualification. As in a life. And what for, if the player comes to game that it to achieve quickly?
A-net has staked on equality of players and fast career. 20-th level it is possible to reach for couple of days. Well even a week - on search necessary skills and the weapon. Plus absence of a user's payment - all is made on attraction of a mass audience. But has passed more than 2th years. Over 2 million players - probably a limit for such game (at WoW> 6 million). And here A-nеt solves: GW2 it is still far, money for development of the project are necessary how still to involve an audience? And let's make so that beginners could take all quickly! Also enters all over again heroes, then PvE-скиллы which deification became Ursan Blessing. Inflation? Yes. But it in fact stimulates economy. Then a collapse, but it - then. We hear obvious message A-net: to us to spit on PvE. We shall develop only PvP. And still: I think, that in GW2 there will be a user's payment. The audience has already developed, anywhere will not get to.
PvE was dead - Long live to PvP!
I do not play PvP, only PvE. It is a pity to me, that so all happens. But saw it in other on-line games and is similar, it is inevitable. People share on two kinds: that, 1. Who likes to earn something and on those, 2. Who likes to possess it simply. Among teenagers the group (2) - is much more. Having analysed gamers, A-net has staked on them, not-experience players. It is her choice. More senior and intelligent part of players will leave. Whether it is bad? Yes, becomes less than competent players. But becomes less "elitism".

Ursan annoys me simply because It makes every class irrelivant... I have a warrior A warrior was my first character however I almost never play him.

Why? I find it boring I prefer to pick my targets rather than charge in and smash brains.

This is why I since play a Monk and an Elementalist. Although I often disliked the stupid rigidity of the builds I was pressured to play. I accepted it occasionally rejecting them and using my own build because it was least somewhat how I liked to play the game my alterations would sometimes give me an edge or serve a negligible weakness.

But this isn't even close to what I signed upto. ¬_¬ And there is no way I can compete not using ursan I've tried using my best Water/Fire/Earth builds specialize for various regions they fall short in every category, They fall somewhat short in damage because Ursan is armor ignoring My attacks make them scatter, I can't maintain my Max output for as long as ursan. My defense is always lower even with an earth Or air build.

To speak for Ursan is advocating a world where nothing but Ursans and monks exsist because nothing else is worth taking.

Quote:

ursan Could be considered overpowered. or it can be viewed that many have underpowered builds. for example, there are chars that very easily exceed damage dealt by ursan in most cases, and also have far higher survivability. in our parties, ursan is the limiting factor, not the superior build. with or without consumables.

it takes very little skill: but if the build that's being used requires high skill and can't accomplish what ursan can, then perhaps the problem is the build, and not ursan. if the build is so good, that ursans are inferior, then the complaint against ursans is actually justifiable. if anyone has the complaint 'i hate ursans because they die easily and deal little damage', please post your build =)

There is no build as fast, as strong, as safe and as easy to use as 5x ursan + 3x monk (or 6/2).

Sure, there are builds that can deal more damage than Ursan or tank better. But Ursan isn't damage. Isn't tanking. Isn't melee damage reduction and knockdowns. It's damage, tanking, melee damage reduction AND knockdowns without any cooldown. Even if someone slammed few super-strong spells on Elementalist, he couldn't spam his skills mindlessly like Ursan, Meteor Shower has a cooldown + exhaustion...

So ursan IS overpowered. Any one skill better than 6 skillbars put together is overpowered. If you don't see that, you are retarded, go play single-player games with god-mode on and infinite weapons/ammunition.

Quote:

just because You don't have a team that's as strong as ursanway in every way, doesn't mean there are no teams that are stronger than ursan. both in damage reduction, damage dealing, and diverse situational competency. furthermore, with a little bit of thought, you can match 6x ursan damage reduction, damage output, and knockdown - except that you can improve the damage reduction (party wide, not just on ursans) and damage (about twice as much) all in 4 chars if you're good - leaving 3 monks, though you won't need, since the damage reduction is so good only 1 monk is needed, and even then is too much. without consumables too. i'd hate to see people's reaction to teams that outperform ursanway. . .

There wouldn't be such a reaction, because there is no build better than Ursan. You were referring to imbagon with tha partywide damage reduction, right? Anything anti-ranger/anti-paragon/blindness/weakness will counter it. Then your team doesn't have reduction. You can run earthshaker warrior too, but you can't mass apply weakness and knockdown every 8 seconds. Almost, but not quite. And again, it has a lot of counters.
4 chars you say? So 2 other could be SS necro or nukers. But they can't deal huge dmg all the time. Oh, and you dont have +200 health on all tanks.
But it's not as fast.

Btw, if there is no team as strong as ursanway in every way, this means there ARE no better. In GvG/HA you have few teams as good as others, with counters and weaknesses. Ursan doesn't. Some will say - e-denial. But it's so weak... And if you return to normal form, you still have your normal skills.

You have to show exactly build you were talking about.

I don't use Ursan. But I do join Ursan teams as one of the HB monks. Truth is before it came out. I never got a chance to do the high end areas. Mainly because teams were either frustratingly stupid or because all these "PRO" groups running around kicking me because they didn't think I had enough experience, your general elitist rubbish.
I'd spend an hour trying to get into a group when I do the whole trip usually ended up as a pile of cold mush.
But with Ursan I don't need to wait excessive amounts of time to join a group. Or deal with elitist idiots who think you aren't good enough to be in their perfect team. I am glad Ursan is here because it gives those of us who aren't able to play Guild Wars that often due to circumstances a shot at actually doing high end content.
So to me Ursan is a blessing in more ways that one.

Yeah, and to me and people with not-that-much-time-or-will-to-mindlessly-grind-titles, it's the worst thing that ever happened...

Wait, why am I trying to talk like with babies? IN ANY MMORPG, ONLINE GAME OR ROLEPLAYER, REMIND YOU GW IS AT LEAST ONE OF THEM, THERE SHOULD NOT BE SUCH THING AS THE ULTIMATE AND THE BEST TEAM BUILD/SKILL! It ruins the basics of gw:

- Skill > time
- You don't have to play non-stop to achieve something
- Grind-free.

I still don't understand why a.net lets a idiotically overpowered skill to exist. I wonder if they will make something like Ursan in next game. If so, please change skin of people using that skill. We will see 90% of a city with a same skin, 10% being the monks. Or 94% same skin, 6% monks.

You got kicked because you weren't pro enough? Now you are pro? No. People still kick from groups, because you don't have r10 norn/r8 lightbringer and you are not a monk. We have a nice saying in our country ,,the old man changed stick to an axe''. Or you can say you chose the lesser evil. It's still evil.

Quote:

Too many people farmed Norn points just for Ursan.
That would make a lot of angry players when they nerf it.
Anet might not want to upset a big portion of the remaining players.
And if they don't nerf it bad enough it won't make a difference, people would continue to use it.

They'll have to choose, make bad people happy or make good people happy. If they first one, their next game will be a total crap.

And a lot of people was capturing skills, buying armor, shield and other items for their characters. Now they have to focus only on one of them, because nobody with life can farm several r10's. What about them (us?), we are upset now.

But if they nerfed ursan, a lot of people would come back. Because there will be a challenge.

I can safely say through personal experience that Ursan isn't all that great. A friend of mine and I went to an area outside of Lutgardis and she solo fought two, just two bugs right outside. She got beat. Then I went in with my build that was totally deprived of Ursan and I pretty much owned them. My opinion on skills and builds is that not all works for every occasion, especially for solo as my friend had tried. It also depends on how you put them together. Ursan seems like just another elite skill that has a boost for PvE. That's basically what it is. An extra boost.

Quote:

no necros, add some sins with moebius blossom. i guess blind could really be problematic. . . remedy is usually worth the slot though. conditions aren't permanent - a competent monk can consistently and easily remove conditions. esp if the imbagon is such a high priority. of course, if you mean the ratio of intelligence to effectiveness, yes, i think ursan wins. but. i meant absolutely - that is, given some reasonably intelligent players. true, the amount of hitpoints is usually lacking. . . but the counterpoint is that since everything dies so quickly, there won't be time to take damage, and therefore the hitpoints thing isn't really a concern.

at any rate, the point still stands, it's not that ursan is overpowered - it's that people who use underpowered builds and find the game challenging because of it shouldn't complain.

LOL. well... if you are too noob to do elite areas with a normal group without PVE skills, then go for Ursan. that;s what it is there for i guess. so noobs can get titles in the last few months before GW2. i have friends that still die in NM when they play. I guess ursan is good for them,

really.. if they still play with Flare or Searing Flames and insist that they need to nuke the mob first with MS... then they deserve to be using UB. at least you don;t get that "i am uber-nuker pro." attitude from them anymore.

i mean,,, i don;t get it anymore. who cares if UB is good or not. The game is ending and a lot of people are already leaving. enjoy it while you can still show off your stuff... while people are still there to show off to. actually... i don;t get the whole PVE thing anyway.... where is the challenge?

the rest of us will be in GW2

Simple problem with Ursan: One skill should not dominate the PvE arena so utterly. It's skills are obviously overpowered, and no matter how many different ways we say it, the end result is still the same. Ursan needs Nerfing.

my problem with ursan is not that it is overpowered(which it is), but rather that the skill Ursan Blessing gives people with hardly any skill the ability to somewhat be usefull to a team, this is bad because a r10 ursan that takes wrong quests in FoW or overaggros cannot be distinguished during party formation from r10 ursan that knows to follow and contribute to the team. The only good thing about ursan is that it gives every proffession a chance to join a team instead of teams being based on Nukers, Monks, Tanks, and the occassional Necro Battery. It should still be nerfed

Quote:

Quote:

So to summarise- we like overpowered skills BUT they can only be overpowered to a certain extent.
IF they go over that threshold - meaning that they are more overpowered then we like - they are bad?

Because clearly we aren't against the concept of overpowered skills - since I don't see anyone screaming that [skill]Winds[/skill] should be nerfed.

Quote:

Like it or not, ursan is what ursan is. It is overpowered, much in the way that 55's are, perma SF sin's are, obby terras, etc. Every major elite mission build is an elite mission build simply for the utter and total pwnage. Yes I have r10 norn on a couple of char's though I only bothered to get UB for my warr, and yes it is fun to roll over everything in half the time.

Unfortunately, people have made having ursan around unpleasant. The attitude that "you HAVE to be r8 ursan or higher or we don't want you", or the "I can Leeroy the hell out of this b/c I have ursan" guy.

Even in a large alliance I still see the same guy spamming UW HM LF monks, terras, etc. for endless hours til he gives up, whereas you can hang out in ToA for about 15 min and have a group of ursans ready to go.

If you are someone that has played GW for 3yrs, you probably hate ursan right about now. In six hours or less you can start a char in any campaign, play to lvl 10, go to eotn and get to Varajar Falls. A few quests later you have an ursan. One days worth of olafsted farming and you can be r8 or higher. This fact pisses me off a little but not enough to go around raving about how unfair it is.

This is for the people who have just started GW, who can't jump back 3yrs to get their b-day presents and have to buy them. The ones that don't have 1000k in the bank, and haven't beaten every elite area in the game. With GW2 coming out soon where your char's achievements are going to be carried over to a new one, anet is simply trying to give the people who didn't buy GW in 2005 a way to enjoy the full potential of the sequel w/out having to wait 3 more years to buy it. Love it or hate it, ursan does what it's suppose to do.