The very worst skill ever, or the very best?
In my eyes, it's interesting skill and DO have it uses. As a e-managment skill it's not maybe the best out there. Since it eats Elite slot. But is it actually that bad as e-managment?
Little comparison between some of the e-managment skills:
Versus Power Drain in 1 minute (3 PD uses):
Power Drain (3 Insp): 21 Energy, 15 cost, 6 gained.
Power Drain (4 Insp): 27 Energy, 15 cost, 12 gained.
Power Drain (5 Insp): 33 Energy, 15 cost, 18 gained.
Peace and Harmony: 20 Energy, 5 Cost. 15 gained.
However, PD requires you to interrupt spells (time used to not heal your party). For heros it's no problem.
Versus Glyph of Lesser Energy in 1 minute (2 GoLE uses, 4 spells):
Glyph of Lesser Energy: 40 Energy, 10 cost, 30 gained. 10+ energy skills used only.
Glyph of Lesser Energy: 40 Energy, 10 cost, 10 gained. 5 energy skills used only.
Glyph of Lesser Energy: 40 Energy, 10 cost, 20 gained. 2 of each used
Peace and Harmony: 20 Energy, 5 Cost. 15 gained.
First GoLE looked like 2 times as good as P&H, but then again if you take a look at how much you actually gain if your bar have mainly 5e skills or you for some reason have to use those low energy skills instead of high ones, it isn't actually that good anymore.
So with those 3 skills (sure there are others that might be even better, at least for player itself) we have results of:
- Power Drain wins after 5 or higher Inspiration, though you have to interrupt a spell to get the energy.
- GoLE wins if you use minium of one 10+ energy spell for each GoLE. Only bad thing i can come up with it is that you are unable to heal party for that 1 sec you use it.
- Peace and Harmony have it uses in my opinion. The bad part about it is, it eats your elite slot. But well, for example you can use it to maintain 1 enchantment and still have normal regeneration. You could for example use it with Divine Boon on 5e bar, or you could use it with Blessed Aura on heavy prot (enchantment) bar.
A bonder monk could use it to allow maintain that 1 extra bond without going in degen.
A healer monk could fit Live Vicariously in their bar and maintain that thing on things like sins to give them more survivalibility (spelling?), given their high attack rate.
Smiter could use Strength of Honor on 1 of the, or 2 melees in group and still have 3 pips regen.
Balthazar's Spirit on yourself when you know there is aoe and you'll be hit with it, no matter what.
Essence Bond could be used on target that will get hit (low AL frontliner).
And ofcourse you can always support one of your other healers / spirit spammer / trappers w/e with the extra pip.
So well, i would say it definately have its uses and could be worth of the elite slot in some situations. At least worth more credit than people give to it. Though, i'm comparing an elite skill to other skills that aren't elite and win against the elite (with required conditions), so yes i agree little with people that say it might be little weak to be elite. But like i already sayd, not weak enough to not use it ever.
Ps. I have no idea why i made thread like this, since nobody is probably interested about the skill, or anything behind it. /slapself
I hope it aint too hard to read, since i fail at fluent english. Also remember, apart from the comparing, most of the stuff are my personal opinios, you are free to have different opinions, but please at least don't start flame war with "no...u" posts. At least not without any reasonings why you think that way.
Peace and Harmony, what it is?
Kiluna
phan
Using it as cover ench ftw =)
Nice guide / comparison kiluna
Nice guide / comparison kiluna
Dr Strangelove
You're comparing an elite skill to a couple non-elite skills. It should give you a hint when P&H is vastly outdone by two non-elite skills with very little or no spec.
Kwan Xi
Smiters don't benefit from Peace and Harmony, if you use any skill that targets a foe P&H will cancel out. Smiter's Boon Monks are an exception I think unless smite condition/hex cancels it out too.
The only thing I ever used P&H for was back when Prophecies was the only GW out and used it only for a Divine Boon/Protect monk. But its kind of a slow/weak way to maintain energy, while other skills like these
[skill]Mantra of Recall[/skill] [skill]Offering of Blood[/skill] [skill]Ether Signet[/skill]
were more of an instant energy gain, and GoLE was kind of a way to bypass the energy altogether.
Not only that but you also if you really do need the extra energy regen you could always take a Battery Necro who can bring [skill]Blood Ritual[/skill] or [skill]Blood is Power[/skill] and give a lot more energy then P&H can.
The only use I see with Peace and Harmony right now is that you can use it on Other Monks, Ritualists or maybe Ranger Trappers as a easy way to maintain an extra pip of energy thats about it. There are lots of ways to manage energy in the game that I think P&H has just fallen completely out of favor with monks (assuming people actually used it in the first place).
The only thing I ever used P&H for was back when Prophecies was the only GW out and used it only for a Divine Boon/Protect monk. But its kind of a slow/weak way to maintain energy, while other skills like these
[skill]Mantra of Recall[/skill] [skill]Offering of Blood[/skill] [skill]Ether Signet[/skill]
were more of an instant energy gain, and GoLE was kind of a way to bypass the energy altogether.
Not only that but you also if you really do need the extra energy regen you could always take a Battery Necro who can bring [skill]Blood Ritual[/skill] or [skill]Blood is Power[/skill] and give a lot more energy then P&H can.
The only use I see with Peace and Harmony right now is that you can use it on Other Monks, Ritualists or maybe Ranger Trappers as a easy way to maintain an extra pip of energy thats about it. There are lots of ways to manage energy in the game that I think P&H has just fallen completely out of favor with monks (assuming people actually used it in the first place).
MasterSasori
Very nice comparison, but GoLE is still better because its non-elite and there are far better Monk elites out there.
Kiluna
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
Power Drain requires minium of 5 inspiration points and a Mesmer secondary and you have to be able to interrupt a spell with it.
With P&H you are free to choose secondary for other possiple skills and got the free points from possiple secondary attribute for monk attributes or for the free'd secondary slot.
So in the end i would say it's +/- 0. You pay elite slot but free up secondary slot and attribute points from it. Only req P&H haves it that you don't damage/cast stuff on enemy (not hard to met), other e-managment skills have reqs like interrupting spell, having high enough attribute points to be more effective, use high enough energy spells and so on. And some of them can be harder to be met in some cases.
Edit:
Quote: Originally Posted by Kwan Xi [skill]Mantra of Recall[/skill] Inspiration 4: 42 Energy, Cost 30, 12 gain.
Inspiration 5: 45 Energy, Cost 30, 15 gain.
Inspiration 6: 48 Energy, Cost 30, 18 gain.
Quote:
[skill]Offering of Blood[/skill]
Blood Magic 0: 32 Energy, Cost 4, 28 gain.
Blood Magic 11: 17 Energy: Cost 1, 16 gain. 1 cast only per minute
On first one (with 4 casts that you can in 1 min) it can be questioned if the gain is even less since someone have to use energy to heal up your sacrifice. Second one with only 1 cast requires really high Blood Magic in order ot beat P&H (if cast only once per minute)
And like i did say in my original post, i agree with the people that say it's weak as elite, if you compare it to other elites. But i'd still think it could have its uses given the right situation & team build.
Quote:
Blood Magic 11: 17 Energy: Cost 1, 16 gain. 1 cast only per minute
On first one (with 4 casts that you can in 1 min) it can be questioned if the gain is even less since someone have to use energy to heal up your sacrifice. Second one with only 1 cast requires really high Blood Magic in order ot beat P&H (if cast only once per minute)
Quote:
I compared to only up to the point where the difference happens, for ex. for Power Drain, i used from 3 (that's what you have if you use 12/12 build) and up to point how much points is required that PD is better in terms of energy gained over time.|
Originally Posted by Kwan Xi
[skill]Ether Signet[/skill]
Inspiration 9: 16 Energy, Cost 0, 16 gain.
Well i guess it's personal preference how much people are ready to spend attributes on secondary/attribute line that only offers you e-managment. Note: the 3 above are over 1 minute, so yes, if you need that energy instantly other skills are indeed (alot) better in terms of that, but extra pip lessens the risk that you run in situation where you have to get that energy NOW! Just one thing people, i want to make my point clear on this thing (to avoid as much as possiple all the flaming :P): I'm not trying to say this thing is best thing out there. I'm trying just to say that this thing deserves more credit than people give to it currently. And like i sayd in my Ps.; I know this thread might be little useless, but i felt like making up little discussion about it.
Kwan Xi
I'm not saying Peace and Harmony is a bad skill, but its not that great either.
In PvP your gonna need a more useful elite, and Peace and Harmony is kind of a dead weight elite if you consider Ether Signet, GoLE, and other non elite energy skills can do a comparable or better job then P&H. Allowing you room to take another elite, like WoH. In PvE I only see P&H useful for giving other monks extra energy regen, but then again a Battery Necro can do the same job better. Boon/Prot maybe? but you could do better with other energy choices too as mentioned above. So yeah.... P&H I don't know if the skill has a niche in the game anymore with all the choices you have out there. Edit: Fix P&H by adding extra energy regen, and lowering the enchantment time? maybe that could make it more useful? I don't know but I get the feeling the skill would have to be modified somehow to see some use once again. C2K
Peace and Harmony is a skill that shouldn't be elite, but it is elite because if it wasn't it would be on every bar. If the energy regen was scaleable(1..3), it might actually be decent for pve.
Kiluna
Yes, scalable regen on it would make it better. Maybe something like:
For 20...55 seconds, target ally gains +1...2 energy regeneration. Spells cast by that ally cost 0...2 less energy. Peace and Harmony ends if that ally casts a spell that targets a foe or deals damage to a foe. at 0 divine, you wouldn't get the reduce on energy cost and only 1 energy regen. at ~9 divine you get 2 regen (maxed) and 1 less energy cost on spells, 2 less energy (maxed) at 12 or 14. Also the duration on that one is little lower than on the original. Though not sure would that be overpowered in PvP since you could cast it on other monks too, maybe keep the 1 pip energy and make secondary effect that lowers spell cost only to scale, 0 at 0 divine Edit: <snip> right, R/N/Mo would be funny class to play 
Melody Cross
Short Answer: bad
Long Answer: PnH had a place on monk bars when boonprots were still a solid choice for play, but there were better choices at the time. As the game progressed, new elites were introduced and old ones were buffed to make them effective in PvP environments. As an energy manager, PnH can easily exceed others in effectiveness. Its conditional, however, on a 3-monk backline (and maintaining it on all three monks) to give such energy returns. This can give advantages to teams, particularly from a GvG perspective. 3 monks with an extra pip of energy can allow the backline to withstand exceptional pressure from the other team, increase pressure to the other side, etc. Adding its long uptime allows the PnH monk to run flags and still remain a force at the stand. Imagine a WoH monk with 5 pips. Your RC. Improving their effectiveness while you are away from the stand allows your team to push longer, forces the other teams support flagger to stay at stand to compensate for these two super monks, thus allowing an increased potential for boosts. Thats the theory anyway. In that light, its easy to see why some might choose one for a runner build. Biggest problem there is: where do you put your party heal now that LoD is dead and buried? The problem with the skill is, quite simply, that there are better options. Monk elites do more than they used to. Any energy manager--even on the once mighty boonprot--is not as effective as these powerful heal/prots at mitigating damage and healing. It also endorses sloppy monking. Spamming your prots because you can was a complaint about boon prots in GWP. Prot Spirit can easily reach elite status for its effect...if a monk can keep it on several targets for long periods of time. This is why OoB was nerfed originally, as well as much of the inspiration line. By the time they nerfed Divine Boon, monk elites and skills had reached an effective level that energy managment was no longer needed. It took less energy to keep people alive with monk elites (heal and prot, or the BLight builds from GWF). It was an anti-climactic nerf that left most players wondering why Izzy even did it in the first place. What all this boils down to is: monks do not use energy managers to manage their energy. They use prot. Hitting the right target at the right time--efficiently using your skills as they are required--is better than any energy manager in the game, elite or otherwise. GGs
Div
When you compare PnH to GoLE and find they're of equal effectiveness, that's a problem.
Just as you should expect a problem if you compare WoH with orison and find they have the same effectiveness.
JoeKnowMo
I agree with Kwan that if you need the extra energy just slap [blood ritual] on a necro hero or take a blood necro hench.
Originally Posted by Alex the Great
If you absolutely need the consistent +1 pip of energy, put [Succor] on a Paragon or Necro hero. It requires no attribute point investment, is not elite, and those classes have built-in e-mgmt and should have no problem maintaining it on you. Non-elite [[GoLE] does better than [[peace and harmony]. And non-elite [[succor] does just as well. Save your elite slot for something more useful. Quote: muwahahahaha!!!!
you all said i was crazy to be using elite emanagment!!! But now you are all WRONG!!!!!! NO U! 
Age
It is good on heros that is what I use it for although for e-man. I use foci swapping as I am not always /E or /Mes.I find the ether signet quite nice if not using gole and at 0 energy.I doubt we will see blood battery Necros agian unless it is in HM or elite areas.
MasterSasori
Quote:
Originally Posted by Age
It is good on heros that is what I use it for although for e-man. I use foci swapping as I am not always /E or /Mes.I find the ether signet quite nice if not using gole and at 0 energy.I doubt we will see blood battery Necros agian unless it is in HM or elite areas.
Just please don't use P&H for any reason - it's terrible. If you need energy, play a N/any class or pack a decent non-elite emanagement skill.
You Look Grim
i agree with the others. PNH uses up an elite spot so comes in second to the other skills imo
Trvth Jvstice
I think when ANet designed [skill]peace and harmony[/skill], they intended [skill]divine boon[/skill] healers/protectors to use it to offset the-1 energy regen. I have to admit, I tried it quite a bit to see if I could make it work, but never could. Way too many disenchants for this skill to be usable. I haven't had any problems with energy magement, WoH is the best energy management tool I've found so far for a Monk.
Avarre
Even if PnH gave better energy than GoLE it would still be worse because you don't get any energy on demand. GoLE can give you energy when you need it, and allows you to hide energy, whereas PnH isn't going to help if you need a burst of energy suddenly.
Hugh Manatee
If it lasts 30 seconds with no DF it does seems like you could stick it on a paragon with Succor and give both your monks +2 pips for a bit while it uses adrenaline based shouts to get energy and further buff the party... Might not do for high end gvg/ha but could do for HM.
Tyla
But then you'd be better off running BiP.
Cheaper, no recharge. Even then it's a waste.
Age
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterSasori
Just please don't use P&H for any reason - it's terrible. If you need energy, play a N/any class or pack a decent non-elite emanagement skill.
I said I only use on heros as they can't focus swap and I can and this beig the Monk forum what would going N/any do anything unless a blood Necro bring PiB or Well of Power.
I don't use Peace and Harmony in fact it was my Mesmer who capped it not my Monk.
JoeKnowMo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Age
I said I only use on heros as they can't focus swap and I can and this beig the Monk forum what would going N/any do anything unless a blood Necro bring PiB or Well of Power.
N/ was suggested because Soul Reaping is much better e-mgmt than PnH and if their secondary was /Mo or /Rt they could pump out heals for longer while still saving their elite slot for something much better than PnH.
Melody Cross
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice
I think when ANet designed [skill]peace and harmony[/skill], they intended [skill]divine boon[/skill] healers/protectors to use it to offset the-1 energy regen. I have to admit, I tried it quite a bit to see if I could make it work, but never could. Way too many disenchants for this skill to be usable. I haven't had any problems with energy management, WoH is the best energy management tool I've found so far for a Monk.
If that were the case, and something players endorse, the skill would require considerable change to reach elite status. Something like
"For X seconds target ally gains +1 energy regen for each enchantment they are maintaining. PnH ends if they attack or cast a spell on an enemy." That would be an elite worth bringing, possibly opening up a slew of skills for monk use that currently stay on the back burner due to the heavy cost of using them. Alas, PnH has seen no love from the devs other than constant tweeks to its recycle to make it look more and more attractive, and one change to its functionality to allow monks to target call without dropping the enchantment by accident. The recycle tweeks were a definite step up--the skill desperately needed them--but its effect is still not worthy of elite status. GGs
Trvth Jvstice
Before the next few sentences gets quoted out of context, let me make it clear that I use a WoH heal/prot hybrid build and I realize P&H is a terrible elite. That said, it seems obvious to me that peace and Harmony was a failed attempt by ANet to make Divine Boon a more usable skill for pure healers or protectors. On paper, the build sounds great: P&H, DB, insert 6 heal or prot skills here. For every spell you cast, the ally also get a nice heal. P&H, if it weren't removed, would negate the -1 energy regen and therefore you would have your normal energy regen. For every cast, you lose 2 energy, but with the huge heals, you would need to cast less often. Like I said, sounds great, but it doesn't work - I even put points into inspiration magic to try to keep a good energy return, but that's way to much micro management for a monk when your supposed to be concentrating on the field and the red bars.
Winterclaw
P&H is an elite that a proph sword warrior could bring to help out the party monks. :/
DokkyDok
The only things that saves it from being complete garbage is its ability to be used on allies, and the fair duration for a 0 DF invesment...but even then, you'd be better off bringing Blood Ritual.
Risa
Quote:
Originally Posted by DokkyDok
The only things that saves it from being complete garbage is its ability to be used on allies, and the fair duration for a 0 DF invesment...but even then, you'd be better off bringing Blood Ritual.
And let's not forget that PnH is an elite, and BR isn't... So, yeah, it pretty much is complete garbage. :/
C2K
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterclaw
P&H is an elite that a proph sword warrior could bring to help out the party monks. :/
Ah yes, its the skill right after Mending :P
PnH was a failed attempt to give monks a skill so they could maintain more enchantments than usual. PvE bonders have much better elite skills to choose from to put in their bars. Shai-hulud
Well after reading a few posts of the autor of this post I wanted to say some things:
-I think you are not comparing correctly. You only take note of 3-4-5 levels of the given attribute (inspiration for instance) - while in most builds there should be more spare points (usually 6 or 8) depending on your attribute spread of course. I think this should also be taken in to account when comparing. -PnH can be cast on allies, didn't see that note in the first few posts. This gives this elite a big advantage because it can be used on allies like MM's (prolly not needed), the other monk and possibly characters like the tank or so. In a general build that could grand a total of +3 energy regen overall. As for the skill by itself I think it's bad for all the reasons said before: it's elite and it gives less energy than most of the other (possibly more conditional) energy management skillz. Eru Valenehtar
I have been monking for 28 months, and on my bar I have no specific skill that helps with energy management. You just need to learn the best timing to heal. Word of Healing makes keeping your energy up pretty easy. If you're trying a couple high costing spells, Go ele for glyph of lesser energy.
AOTT
GolE>PaH, you said so yourself...
PaH is kinda on my list of "joke skills." "Can't we all just get along and have great energy regen?" side note. BiP: "I'm gonna cut myself so bad it could kill me so you can have 1337 energy regen!!!" In GW, violence towards self and others is more effective energy management than hippy peace and harmony.
Kiluna
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai-hulud
-I think you are not comparing correctly. You only take note of 3-4-5 levels of the given attribute (inspiration for instance) - while in most builds there should be more spare points (usually 6 or 8) depending on your attribute spread of course. I think this should also be taken in to account when comparing. -PnH can be cast on allies, didn't see that note in the first few posts. This gives this elite a big advantage because it can be used on allies like MM's (prolly not needed), the other monk and possibly characters like the tank or so. In a general build that could grand a total of +3 energy regen overall. As for the skill by itself I think it's bad for all the reasons said before: it's elite and it gives less energy than most of the other (possibly more conditional) energy management skillz. |
And like i did say in my original post, i agree with the people that say it's weak as elite, if you compare it to other elites. But i'd still think it could have its uses given the right situation & team build.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Melody Cross
"For X seconds target ally gains +1 energy regen for each enchantment they are maintaining. PnH ends if they attack or cast a spell on an enemy."
Not that bad idea.
Kale Ironfist
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiluna
And like i did say in my original post, i agree with the people that say it's weak as elite, if you compare it to other elites. But i'd still think it could have its uses given the right situation & team build.
It's more than that. Through careful optimisation, it's weaker than non-elites. The only real benefit to using this skill is maintaining it on several characters to get the most out of the duration to recharge ratio. Due to its end clause, only a few characters fit this bill: non-smite monks, Minion Master/Bomber Necromancers.
And the Necromancers don't really need the extra energy management.
AOTT
[Offering of Blood]>[Peace and Harmony]
Yeah... but we're not talking about necromancers I should shut up.
MasterSasori
Quote:
Originally Posted by AOTT
[Offering of Blood]>[Peace and Harmony]
Yeah... but we're not talking about necromancers I should shut up. Totally off topic but... [offering of spirit]>[offering of blood] [peace and harmony] is just outplayed by much better Monk elites. |
