Pushing my luck? [Monitor woes] - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Snograt

rattus rattus

Join Date: Jan 2006

London, UK GMT??0 ??1hr DST

[GURU]GW [wiki]GW2

R/

18 Apr 2008 at 21:55 - 1

I mentioned elsewhere the delights of the new Samsung 2232BW I recently purchased and this is very much related.

I previously had a decent Iiyama 22" panel, which I decided to hand down to my son. I now think that this is putting too much strain on his system (another hand-me-down

).

He is running an Athlon 1800XP with an ATI X800 with 512MB of old school DDR. It was previously running on another Iiyama - a good old 19" CRT. It has always been sluggish, but now it's more of a fossil than a slug. Here's how it goes.

On startup, the PC sounds as if it's behaving normally, although there is a good minute or two before the single "everything is ok" POST beep. Then, nothing is displayed on the monitor until the "Welcome" screen (XP). No part of the POST or BIOS info screens is displayed at all.

When the desktop eventually loads, everything is extremely sluggish. Open Firefox, for example, and nothing happens for a good 3-4 minutes. A similar wait occurs using Ctrl-Alt-Del to check running processes.

Is it just me trying to run a native 1680x1050 monitor on a low-end system? Will I have to downgrade to the good ol' 1024x768 CRT?

Or, hopefully, is there anything I can do to get this configuration running with any amount of stability?

(As an aside, once I get some life out of it, I'm gonna run CC on it - the amount of crap he's downloaded is staggering! Guild Wars addict at ten years of age ><)

Pasha the Mighty

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2007

South Park, Colorado

OtDL

D/A

18 Apr 2008 at 22:13 - 2

I think you need more ram for the programs, and as you're running a big monitor on a relatively old graphics card, I think you should upgrade to something with a little bit more ram, cuz the higher your resolution gets, the more ram it'll need to handle all the textures.

Lord Sojar

The Fallen One

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oblivion

Irrelevant

Mo/Me

18 Apr 2008 at 22:41 - 3

Time to invest in a new tower.

The graphics card is actually the best thing in that setup. you have created a massive bottleneck by adding a very fast graphics card to that ancient CPU and small amount of memory.

If the case is still in good shape, and the power supply is a good size, I would spend a few bucks and gut the poor thing. Try these on for size.

CPU:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103774

Mobo: Open box, but cheap and oh well right?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...2E16813131022R

RAM: Cheap, yet reliable.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820161229

Graphics Card: Cheap! FAST! AMAZING CARD. GO GO?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814150278

Grand Total: $368.18 (that is including shipping)

If you need a new power supply, then buy this: again, cheap, reliable.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817182017

Admael

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

California

Xen of Heroes

18 Apr 2008 at 22:45 - 4

I don't believe it's as slow as you claim it to be.

I think you're just use to the speed of your current machine and developed impatience towards anything slower.

Snograt

rattus rattus

Join Date: Jan 2006

London, UK GMT??0 ??1hr DST

[GURU]GW [wiki]GW2

R/

18 Apr 2008 at 23:00 - 5

Lol - not at all, Admael! Heh, you know me so well

As I'm typing this response at work on a system running IE6 on an NT4 SP5 system, I'm well used to low-end. No, my boy's rig REALLY is that slow. It's the POST screens not showing that has me puzzled.

Thanks Rajah, I'll translate those sites to British and see if it's worth doing. It's just a stop-gap until he gets yet another hand-me-down from my cousin who's also upgrading to a kick-ass system. So he will have an fx57 and an ATI X1900XTX, plus 2 Gigs of DDR2, IIRC.

Brianna

Insane & Inhumane

Join Date: Feb 2006

18 Apr 2008 at 23:18 - 6

That's a decent rig Rahja posted, I'd go with a faster processor but that is just fine really.

It just sounds like that computer is not good enough for the huge screen.

Cause my second computer has an 8600GT in it, but the 1.8ghz AMD sempron and 1 gig of ram are a huge bottle neck to that video card, so it only gets about half the performance it should. I'd never put a 22 inch on that computer, at least not for gaming.

Snograt

rattus rattus

Join Date: Jan 2006

London, UK GMT??0 ??1hr DST

[GURU]GW [wiki]GW2

R/

18 Apr 2008 at 23:51 - 7

Thanks guys (and possibly gals

), that's about what I guessed.

Sigh - time to dig the old CRT out of the shed again.

Brianna

Insane & Inhumane

Join Date: Feb 2006

19 Apr 2008 at 00:05 - 8

Yes I seem to be the only technical girl in here, we need more.. I feel out of place, even though I'm not as smart as some of the others, I try to help.

I'd cry going back to CRT, actually I did when I had to use it on my other computer for a week.

Snograt

rattus rattus

Join Date: Jan 2006

London, UK GMT??0 ??1hr DST

[GURU]GW [wiki]GW2

R/

19 Apr 2008 at 05:38 - 9

Just realised that something is still bothering me. This is obviously an underpowered system to drive that monitor, BUT...

Why am I not getting the POST/BIOS stuff? That all runs before the OS loads and is in very basic 640x480 (or whatever). Surely the system makes no difference to that?

Still confused :/

madcat

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2007

W/

19 Apr 2008 at 12:26 - 10

Using DVI rather than VGA output on the new monitor? About the only thing I can think of.

Or the monitor is expecting DVI input and your're using VGA so it's taking a few moments to adjust.

Admael

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

California

Xen of Heroes

19 Apr 2008 at 19:33 - 11

The video card doesn't support that resolution, obviously

If you want an LCD for that computer, 15-17 inch is probably all it can handle.

Cyb3r

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2008

AFO

E/

19 Apr 2008 at 20:30 - 12

it's indeed strange but it could be the monitor that is still adjusting or something wrong with the screen (or the graphics card) it's kinda hard to point out the problem when you're in the uk and i'm in belgium

Snograt

rattus rattus

Join Date: Jan 2006

London, UK GMT??0 ??1hr DST

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R/

19 Apr 2008 at 21:36 - 13

Actually, during one of its brief forays into windows, I managed to drop it to 640x480 at 16bpp. It is running via DVI-D, I could try it on a D-Sub but I can't see it helping.

Even at that minimal resoulution it doesn't work. I uninstalled ZoneAlarm, which has become a nightmarish resource hog, restarted, now it won't boot at all. It has the usual couple of minutes before the A-Ok beep, then nothing - no display.

Gonna get down and dirty and take it apart next. Spring cleaning, card re-seating, the usual stuff. I'll let you know how it goes.

If you're interested.

Hell, even if you're not!

Snograt

rattus rattus

Join Date: Jan 2006

London, UK GMT??0 ??1hr DST

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21 Apr 2008 at 21:12 - 14

Update numero uno.

I cleaned all the (physical) crap out, replaced the 350W PSU with a 550 I happened to have laying around, and put back the old monitor.

Still wobbly. Turns out the primary HDD is on the way out. The POST hangs sometimes trying to detect it. I thought I'd take it out and try an install on one of the other HDDs (it has 3 - 13GB, 40GB, 80GB).

BIOS is struggling to recognise the opticals too. One comes up as Pioneer @V@ ...and other such garbage. Sometimes they're recognised ass unusual floppies. Sometimes as removable media.

Grr - if the boy wasn't so desperate to get back to GW, I'd take a sledgehammer to the damn thing.

As an aside, I originally had the 40GB and 13GB as primary master and slave. When I bought the 80GB it was when 133MHz IDE was new - and the only interface that took them on my board seems to be RAID only. If you disable raid, you disable the 133 IDE ports. So I have a SINGLE 80GB drive set up as RAID 0+1.

Don't ask - it works.

*worked.

Shendaar

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

P4n드4k트 F0rm4710n

W/

21 Apr 2008 at 21:36 - 15

That is certainly a way too big monitor for that kind of the system. It will pretty much struggle to run most games that you throw at it at that resolution.

Thats what sucks about LCDs, you can't just lower the resolution and still get a decent display quality like you could with CRTs.

Snograt

rattus rattus

Join Date: Jan 2006

London, UK GMT??0 ??1hr DST

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R/

23 Apr 2008 at 20:54 - 16

Update ultimo (probably).

HDD0 failed. 40GB with XP installed :/
HDD1 failed. 13GB with crap on it

HDD2, the 80GB 0+1 one-drive RAID was fine!

Ripped them all out and installed the 80 solo, then installed the only OS I had to hand.

My son is now happily playing GW on an ancient 1800XP with 512MB DDR and an X800.

On Vista.

><

Dark Kal

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

24 Apr 2008 at 09:51 - 17

Your system should run the screen just fine. I've a Pentium II, 300 MHz with an Nvidia GeForce 2 card and 96 Mb SDRAM or so and it can run my 19" LCD screen smoothly. So it's most definitely something else.

I've never heard of a system not displaying the POST nor should it take 1/2 minutes, although there are too many things I could imagine that would cause this kind of behavior, maybe some sort of hardware malfunction/failure, insufficient power (unlikely since you replaced the PSU), CMOS battery running empty or pherhaps your BIOS settings are corrupted. If you have the possibility I'd try reflashing your BIOS and/or try replacing the CMOS battery with a new one.

Snograt

rattus rattus

Join Date: Jan 2006

London, UK GMT??0 ??1hr DST

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R/

24 Apr 2008 at 15:39 - 18

It was the intermittently failing hard drives causing the post to delay, I think.

96MB eh? 1x64 and 1x32 - I do math too ^^

Well done for getting that to run a 19" - that would have been fresh when 15" was the norm!

The Way Out

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2007

In my peanut brain

Zomg Zombies [OMG]

Mo/E

24 Apr 2008 at 15:49 - 19

The monitor has nothing to do with the slow performance. XP runs well with 512 mb of memory. I am more likely to blame HDs, old drivers, and general computer clutter for it. Streamline his system a bit and he will be flying along. I have an old system kicking around with a low P4 with half the specs (same RAM) that runs well with a 22" screen.

Cyb3r

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2008

AFO

E/

24 Apr 2008 at 16:44 - 20

yep Xp tends to run fine on even 256mb ram why? cause XP has a humongous page file that in the case of 1 to 2 gb of ram is unnecessary however at 256 mb of ram it is needed since XP alone eats up 256 mb

But when a hdd starts to sounds more than a gattling gun than a harddrive there is something wrong and the HDD is at the end of it's life cycle (only reason i'll never buy 40 gb maxtor HDD's again) (i got Dual 36 gb Raptors in here(why only 36 gb, well for the speed when putted in raid to boot windows ^^)

Snog hope you're probs are solved and otherwhise send me a pm, i'll try to help you as good as possible

Snograt

rattus rattus

Join Date: Jan 2006

London, UK GMT??0 ??1hr DST

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R/

24 Apr 2008 at 17:00 - 21

Actually, the main drive that failed was a 40GB WD Caviar, which were quite respected at the time.

The sole drive I have left is a respectable 80GB 133MHz but running on the old-school 100MHz bus. PATA, of course

Thanks for the offer, Cyb3r, but it's not a problem now. The system does run GW sufficiently well to stop the boy's moans, and he will have a replacement in a couple of weeks.

Incidentally, getting drivers for the SB Live! sound card was quite an experience. Creative stopped supporting it before Vista was released, so it took a search for unofficial drivers. Which, for some reason, make all sounds very quiet.

It'll do.

The Way Out

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2007

In my peanut brain

Zomg Zombies [OMG]

Mo/E

25 Apr 2008 at 15:20 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyb3r

yep Xp tends to run fine on even 256mb ram why? cause XP has a humongous page file that in the case of 1 to 2 gb of ram is unnecessary however at 256 mb of ram it is needed since XP alone eats up 256 mb

But when a hdd starts to sounds more than a gattling gun than a harddrive there is something wrong and the HDD is at the end of it's life cycle (only reason i'll never buy 40 gb maxtor HDD's again) (i got Dual 36 gb Raptors in here(why only 36 gb, well for the speed when putted in raid to boot windows ^^)

Snog hope you're probs are solved and otherwhise send me a pm, i'll try to help you as good as possible

Xp doesn't have a huge paging file... unless you either allow the system to choose an appropriate one, or you yourself specify so. XP alone doesn't eat up 256mb of memory, that is a false claim. When you attempt to game on a low end system, you begin to experience the problems you are describing. If I remember correctly, snograt gave the low-end system to his son. I don't remember him talking about how he needs to use it for personal gaming. Do your homework.

Cyb3r

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2008

AFO

E/

25 Apr 2008 at 16:04 - 23

a page file depends on how much HDD space you have i still find 1.5 gb to 3 gb paging file rather large if you have around 500 gb off hdd space and have 2gb of ddr, besides paging file = slowness, the idea behind it is great but even on Sata raid it doesn't work since a hdd will never put out the same data speed DDR or DDR2 can achieve