Should the 4/17 update be permanent?

Brian the Gladiator

Brian the Gladiator

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

Michigan, USA

Us Are Not [leet]

E/


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arena Net
This month's update is unique. It is a "temporary tournament update" targeted at the final cash-prize tournament, which will take place at the end of April. The skill changes are temporary and will be in effect for only two weeks. They are all geared toward addressing the most immediate issues with Guild Battles.

In order to reduce the possible negative impact on PvE play, we will be reverting the changes on May 1st. For future tournaments, we aim to focus on changes that will not impact PvE play at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skill Changes
Assassin
Assassin's Remedy: increased Energy cost to 10.

Blind is a staple prevention method against Shadow Stepping spikes, but Assassin's Remedy passively bypasses that counter. The condition is removed before the attack even hits, which nullifies well-timed Blindness in a self-sufficient, "fire-and-forget" manner. The higher Energy cost will add a little Energy pressure, especially to Dervish/Assassin combinations, and limit the frequency of their spikes.

Mesmer
Hex Breaker: changed skill type back to stance.
Fragility: decreased Energy cost to 5.
Fevered Dreams: decreased recharge to 8 seconds.
Chaos Storm: decreased Energy cost to 5.
Energy Surge: increased Energy drained to 1..10; decreased damage per Energy to 9.
Energy Burn: increased Energy drained to 1..10; decreased damage per Energy to 9.

To support additional Energy attrition (and allow teams to break down overwhelming defenses), Energy Surge and Energy Burn both get increases to the amount of Energy they drain, and Chaos Storm gets a significant cost decrease. We've also improved condition spreading, especially from Necromancers, so we wanted to support out-of-profession skills that combo particularly well with conditions. Fevered Dreams' recharge comes down and Fragility's cost is reduced to make these hexes more easily spreadable. Finally, Hex Breaker and Mantra of Concentration were too powerful when used together, so we've changed Hex Breaker back to a stance.

Necromancer:
Dark Pact: increased damage to 10..70.

Dark Pact's damage was not worth its cost. We've raised that damage by more than 20 at the high end, hopefully making this skill a viable way to inflict damage at a Health cost.

Elementalist:
Blinding Surge: decreased recharge to 3 seconds; decreased Blindness duration to 1..5 seconds.
Ward Against Melee: decreased duration to 1..18 seconds; no longer protects Guild Battle NPCs.
Lightning Orb: this skill no longer applies Cracked Armor.
Glyph of Concentration: decreased number of spells affected to 1.
Shockwave: increased casting time to 1 second.
Ward Against Harm: no longer protects Guild Battle NPCs.
Ward Against Elements: no longer protects Guild Battle NPCs.

Wards, when used during Victory or Death, gave teams too much irremovable defense for their NPCs. The positional play of these skills also matters much less in the final standoff at the flag stand (because everything clumps together), so we've disabled their effect on Guild Battle NPCs. Lightning Orb's Cracked Armor component made it too easy to compress skill bars, which made other options like Shell Shock obsolete. In response, we removed the Cracked Armor component of Lightning Orb. Teleporting Elementalists using Shockwave could quickly annihilate targets on a spike in an undetectable way, which made them very difficult to deal with. We've increased the casting time here to prevent that particular combination. Finally, Glyph of Concentration enabled caster spikes too efficiently, so it now prevents interruption on just a single spell.

Monk:
Aegis: increased Energy cost to 15.

Aegis, despite all of its drawbacks, continues to be a very powerful defensive skill that helps draw games out to Victory or Death. We've added additional Energy pressure here, aiming to bring it more in balance.

Warrior:
Disarm: decreased time that attack skills are disabled to 0..3 seconds; increased recharge to 20.

Disarm's ability to lock out adrenaline, essentially preventing a character from doing much of anything, was both overpowered and frustrating. We've limited how frequently this skill can be used. When properly timed, it can still be effective without completely removing an opponent from the game.

Ritualist:
Flesh of My Flesh: increased recharge to 10 seconds.
Death Pact Signet: increased activation time to 4 seconds.
Ancestors' Rage: increased casting time to 1 second.
Splinter Weapon: increased recharge to 8 seconds.
Recuperation: no longer affects Guild Battle NPCs.
Life: no longer affects Guild Battle NPCs.
Pure Was Li Ming: no longer affects Guild Battle NPCs.
Displacement: no longer protects Guild Battle NPCs.
Shelter: no longer protects Guild Battle NPCs.

Flesh of my Flesh and Death Pact Signet's downsides were not harsh enough for their effect. These fast-casting, fast-recharging resurrections could be seamlessly integrated into a defensive build, with the Health sacrifice and possibility of caster death easily mitigated, making these skills too powerful. The additional recharge limits how fast a team can recover from multiple deaths. Ancestors' Rage and Splinter Weapon have trivialized pre-VoD NPC advantage by making it easy to slaughter NPCs at the stand during VoD. To limit their impact, we've increased the casting time of Ancestors' Rage and increased the recharge of Splinter Weapon. Defensive Spirits and bundle items, like Elementalist wards, were too effective at providing irremovable defense for NPCs at VoD, so they no longer protect NPCs in Guild Battles.

Dervish:
Mystic Sweep: increased activation time to 1 second.
Eremite's Attack: increased activation time to 1 second.

The most deadly Dervish spikes revolve around fast-activation attack skills combined with Assassin teleportation skills. We've normalized the activations on Mystic Sweep and Eremite's Attack to decrease overall scythe spike potential.

Paragon:
Song of Restoration: increased recharge to 30 seconds.
Ballad of Restoration: increased recharge to 30 seconds.
Harrier's Toss: increased activation time to 1 second.

Song of Restoration and Ballad of Restoration continue to provide too much healing overall, especially coming from a high-armor profession. Harrier's Toss allowed Paragons to participate in the spike (thus allowing them to fit more defense on their skill bar) as well as maximize Splinter Weapon's already-powerful effect, so we've reduced the activation speed to limit these issues.
I propose that the update should be permanent.

My first point is that these changes are simply too important to GvG balance to make them temporary. The removal of the webs of passive defense make this game great. Mesmers were buffed to have more e-denial ob monks that will not be able to maintain for 20 minutes. This is a good thing. People are supposed to die in gvg. Why would you tempt us with it simply to take it away?

My second point is that the reasons behind making it temporary just don't add up. A-net says that these changes effect PvE too much. I simply don't see it. Most of the time PvE players use full teams of Ursan anyways.
1) I've never seen anyone use ele skills in PvE except AoE fire.
2) Monks in PvE dont use aegis... they use Healer's Boon + seed of life + healing seed.
3) No one uses motivation paras in pve... they use imba-gons with PvE-only shouts.
4) Ritualists are exclusively used for resto heals and communing spirits.
5) Dervishes dont need to spike in PvE.
6) Mesmer AoE skills GOT BUFFED which is what PvE-ers have been crying for.
--> Literally, the only thing that this update does that effects PvE is nerf hard rez a bit. No PvE-er is going to start crying that their hard rez got nerfed a bit. A-net needs to stop worrying about PvE. PvE is easy -- it has always been easy -- it will always be easy! No amount of skill nerfs is going to change that.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator
My second point is that the reasons behind making it temporary just don't add up. A-net says that these changes effect PvE too much. I simply don't see it. Most of the time PvE players use full teams of Ursan anyways.
1) I've never seen anyone use ele skills in PvE except AoE fire.
2) Monks in PvE dont use aegis... they use Healer's Boon + seed of life + healing seed.
3) No one uses motivation paras in pve... they use imba-gons with PvE-only shouts.
4) Ritualists are exclusively used for resto heals and communing spirits.
5) Dervishes dont need to spike in PvE.
6) Mesmer AoE skills GOT BUFFED which is what PvE-ers have been crying for.
--> Literally, the only thing that this update does that effects PvE is nerf hard rez a bit. No PvE-er is going to start crying that their hard rez got nerfed a bit. A-net needs to stop worrying about PvE. PvE is easy -- it has always been easy -- it will always be easy! No amount of skill nerfs is going to change that.
You better not be pointing at ME on those 1-6 points there!

Anyway, I think these updates should be perm.
No point in doing that and reverting it a few weeks after...

horseradish

horseradish

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

In a donut hole

Rt/A

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator
My second point is that the reasons behind making it temporary just don't add up. A-net says that these changes effect PvE too much. I simply don't see it. Most of the time PvE players use full teams of Ursan anyways.
1) I've never seen anyone use ele skills in PvE except AoE fire.
2) Monks in PvE dont use aegis... they use Healer's Boon + seed of life + healing seed.
3) No one uses motivation paras in pve... they use imba-gons with PvE-only shouts.
4) Ritualists are exclusively used for resto heals and communing spirits.
5) Dervishes dont need to spike in PvE.
6) Mesmer AoE skills GOT BUFFED which is what PvE-ers have been crying for.
--> Literally, the only thing that this update does that effects PvE is nerf hard rez a bit. No PvE-er is going to start crying that their hard rez got nerfed a bit. A-net needs to stop worrying about PvE. PvE is easy -- it has always been easy -- it will always be easy! No amount of skill nerfs is going to change that.
General assumptions ftl.

jayson

jayson

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator
A-net needs to stop worrying about PvE.
You know as a pve player I had no problems with your request right up till you show this ignorant attitude. So lets hope that Anet keeps on worrying about pve now instead. Seems to me that's where all the money is coming from anyway.

pfaile

pfaile

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2007

Orlando

Divine Order of Heroes

P/R

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator




I propose that the update should be permanent.

My first point is that these changes are simply too important to GvG balance to make them temporary. The removal of the webs of passive defense make this game great. Mesmers were buffed to have more e-denial ob monks that will not be able to maintain for 20 minutes. This is a good thing. People are supposed to die in gvg. Why would you tempt us with it simply to take it away?

My second point is that the reasons behind making it temporary just don't add up. A-net says that these changes effect PvE too much. I simply don't see it. Most of the time PvE players use full teams of Ursan anyways.
1) I've never seen anyone use ele skills in PvE except AoE fire.
2) Monks in PvE dont use aegis... they use Healer's Boon + seed of life + healing seed.
3) No one uses motivation paras in pve... they use imba-gons with PvE-only shouts.
4) Ritualists are exclusively used for resto heals and communing spirits.
5) Dervishes dont need to spike in PvE.
6) Mesmer AoE skills GOT BUFFED which is what PvE-ers have been crying for.
--> Literally, the only thing that this update does that effects PvE is nerf hard rez a bit. No PvE-er is going to start crying that their hard rez got nerfed a bit. A-net needs to stop worrying about PvE. PvE is easy -- it has always been easy -- it will always be easy! No amount of skill nerfs is going to change that.
Do you sterotype real people like this as well. Your statements are just an ignorant generalization and should be disregarded by all.

English Warrior

English Warrior

LEET HAXXOR!

Join Date: Feb 2007

Random Arena

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lutz

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

Battery Powered Best Friends [Vibe]

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pfaile
Do you sterotype real people like this as well. Your statements are just an ignorant generalization and should be disregarded by all.
It's not an ignorant generalization when it's true.

You can't see me

You can't see me

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

USA

P/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by pfaile
Do you sterotype real people like this as well. Your statements are just an ignorant generalization and should be disregarded by all.
QFT.

Generalizing makes a negative impact on your health.

/Not signed.

DarkWasp

DarkWasp

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2005

Paradise

Agency Of Forbidden Fruits [Oot]

R/A

2 words, "Splinter Weapon". Change it back.

/PullEraserAndRemoveSignatures

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkWasp
2 words, "Splinter Weapon". Change it back.

/PullEraserAndRemoveSignatures
Just out of curiosity, how does this extra 3 seconds effect you that much?
I didn't find it that hard of a nerf.

Tearz1993

Tearz1993

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2007

Relentless Aggressors [rA]

R/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by lutz
It's not an ignorant generalization when it's true.
12 characters

Motoko Kusanagi War

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2007

Team Paradigm [pd]

W/

Letme just take a moment to put some input on the skills that were nerfed.

In one week from today, a Monthly Automated tournament will take place resulting in the highest real world cash prizes since the last GWWC. (No its not alot but thats not the point)

If you take a moment to just analyze the compilation of builds that have been nerfed, you will see why ANET has decided to do what it has done recently.

Elementalist, Paragon, Monk, and hard rezzing were a HUGE part in [rawr] spike. If you even WATCH high end gvgs, let alone the monthly tournaments themselves... You will find that [rawr] has won numerous times with the same build. Everyone knows that they run [rawr] spike, yet for MONTHS and MONTHS no one has dared to counter it. This update seems have a significant purpose to prevent any team from winning with rawr-spike this coming monthly. ESPECIALLY since the prizes have been doubled.

Other things to take into consideration.

Shockwave got hit A BIT (still runable but not as instant of a spike). ANET does not want to see that spike do well in the MAT.

Assassin spike got hit A BIT. It is still runable but you need more finesse. A little energy pressure from remedy and slower activation times on eremites/mystics decrease its spike speed a TINY bit.

Upto this point, the game has been FAIRLY balanced, and well maintained. The gimmicks that have come up since the last update, have been addressed fairly quickly and fairly well. Gimmicks are still runable, but to the point it gives the opposing team an opportunity to showcase their skill and stop the spike.



On another note: This doesn't affect PvE a whole lot. I assume its a cover up to outright nerf [rawr]. But that is something ANET will publicly deny. Condi builds might start coming up. And the only thing that did change PvE was Lightning Orb being nerfed. Now people can do pve without cracked armor getting spammed on them! Which doesnt affect pve too harshly.

One more thing to keep in mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ANET
Aegis, despite all of its drawbacks, continues to be a very powerful defensive skill that helps draw games out to Victory or Death.

But for a full list of developer comments on the recent and temporary update, look here:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Devel...dates/20080417

~Motoko

NND

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2007

[Lord]

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by pfaile
Do you sterotype real people like this as well. Your statements are just an ignorant generalization and should be disregarded by all.
just what i was thinking

Turbobusa

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

By the Luxon Scavenger

The Mentalists [THPK]

N/

Seeing as some nerfs are unnecessary or just in the wrong direction (hear: assassin's remedy still makes you immuned to blind, and shockwave in itself is a bad skill, the real problem is shadowstepping), I'd say that I would like it to have SOME changes reverted (at least those 2).

Note that there is no reason to revert it because of PvE. Even though generalisation is bad, I think this may not affect the way of playing of an average PvE player. Splinter wep is still very powerfull and rips through mobs, 3 more seconds won't change it.

Revert some changes, don't do any change reversal if it's for PvE.
For those that will be shocked, note that I am mainly a PvE/AB(= same ) player.

BlackSephir

BlackSephir

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

A/N

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator
2) Monks in PvE dont use aegis... they use Healer's Boon + seed of life + healing seed.
Tahlkora, Ogden and Dunkoro use it.

pfaile

pfaile

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2007

Orlando

Divine Order of Heroes

P/R

"You will find that [rawr] has won numerous times with the same build. Everyone knows that they run [rawr] spike, yet for MONTHS and MONTHS no one has dared to counter it. This update seems have a significant purpose to prevent any team from winning with rawr-spike this coming monthly. ESPECIALLY since the prizes have been doubled."

From this op poorly worded and elitist rant against pve, one would think that all PVPers are so orginal that you would never encounter the same build twice. Guess not, hmm.

Dryndalyn

Dryndalyn

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator
Most of the time PvE players use full teams of Ursan anyways.
There are a good number of PvE players who like to play their own character rather than use Ursan. I am one who would only use it if I made a story behind why this particular character thought that the "Bear Spirit" was for them. Most of my characters would not use it.

Also, I appreciate Anet's concern for PvE players in this regard.

Skyy High

Skyy High

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2006

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by lutz
It's not an ignorant generalization when it's true.
Rits only used for heals and spirits? Lawl...no.

Some of the other things are true, but Aegis in PvE is great (prot > heals, mkay?)

TrippieHippie89

TrippieHippie89

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2008

Saegertown, PA

High by Nine [Bong]

Me/W

This update does WONDERS for PvP and might hurt 1 out of 10 pve'ers SLIGHTLY

it should remain permanently for all the reasons brought up by the OP

PvE'ers have NOTHING to cry about, even if you did use b surge, it is still manageable but isnt IMBALANCED, same with aegis, it isnt like it costs 30 energy and causes exhaustion, its 5 more energy, the 5 more energy from aegis isnt going to cause you to partywipe between groups

beyond the fact that these skill nerfs are absolutely trivial to most pve builds, you have the extremely overpowered pve only skills, pain inverter, save yourselves, theres nothing to fear, cry of pain, norn shout buffs, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc and yes the 123 123 123 123 goredenginegoredenginegoredengine machine that is ursan blessing

WARNING!!! WARNING!!! WARNING!!! GENERALIZATION ALERT!!!!

most pve'ers are pve only and thus DO NOT know the nature of any pvp let alone high end gvg play which has been balanced out greatly by these nerfs and henceforth....should not be upset about this update needing to be permanetely

/signed

You can't see me

You can't see me

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

USA

P/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrippieHippie89
This update does WONDERS for PvP and might hurt 1 out of 10 pve'ers SLIGHTLY

it should remain permanently for all the reasons brought up by the OP

PvE'ers have NOTHING to cry about, even if you did use b surge, it is still manageable but isnt IMBALANCED, same with aegis, it isnt like it costs 30 energy and causes exhaustion, its 5 more energy, the 5 more energy from aegis isnt going to cause you to partywipe between groups

beyond the fact that these skill nerfs are absolutely trivial to most pve builds, you have the extremely overpowered pve only skills, pain inverter, save yourselves, theres nothing to fear, cry of pain, norn shout buffs, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc and yes the 123 123 123 123 goredenginegoredenginegoredengine machine that is ursan blessing

WARNING!!! WARNING!!! WARNING!!! GENERALIZATION ALERT!!!!

most pve'ers are pve only and thus DO NOT know the nature of any pvp let alone high end gvg play which has been balanced out greatly by these nerfs and henceforth....should not be upset about this update needing to be permanetely

/signed

Go back to farming fame and stop pretending you understand the playstyle and opinions of 100% of PvEers. KthxBaii.

BLOODGOAT

BLOODGOAT

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2007

long a

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator
1) I've never seen anyone use ele skills in PvE except AoE fire.
2) Monks in PvE dont use aegis... they use Healer's Boon + seed of life + healing seed.
3) No one uses motivation paras in pve... they use imba-gons with PvE-only shouts.
4) Ritualists are exclusively used for resto heals and communing spirits.
5) Dervishes dont need to spike in PvE.
6) Mesmer AoE skills GOT BUFFED which is what PvE-ers have been crying for.
You must play with terribad Ursanway+HB scrubs because ... well, everything you said is a joke.

Div

Div

I like yumy food!

Join Date: Jan 2006

Where I can eat yumy food

Dead Alley [dR]

Mo/R

Why do you PvPers always ruin our PvE fun? I don't like ursan, but I like OP skills. Who cares about skill balance? I rather kill shit fast and easy because I'm bad and can't work around changes.

TrippieHippie89

TrippieHippie89

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2008

Saegertown, PA

High by Nine [Bong]

Me/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by You can't see me
Go back to farming fame and stop pretending you understand the playstyle and opinions of 100% of PvEers. KthxBaii.
Riiiiight, i played ha up untill my R6 and then stopped because ha is gimmick after gimmick after gimmick(thats another story alltogether)

also, when did i say i understood the opinions of 100% of PvE'ers? i simply said MOST of them do not use the skills balanced in this nerf and if they did its not like 55'ers were kicked out of existence

also, if your pve skills did take a bit of a hit with this nerf, it is not a major nerf and to compensate you have an entire list of overpowered pve only skills, for example There's Nothing to Fear, and Save Yourselves, +100 armor to the rest of your team and 35% dmg reduction beyond that and if that doesnt make things mind numbingly easy....pop a conset and be damn near invincible

i did pve for some time before i switched to pvp, and when not gvging i do work on my pve main...ive seen both sides of the spectrum where as you with your "prestigious" FoW armor+Chaos gloves that are so wise in the ways of pve have probably NEVER seen anywhere near high end PvP and henceforth can not possibly understand why these nerfs took place other than "boo hoo i cant vanqish without a 10 energy aegis"

You can't see me

You can't see me

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

USA

P/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrippieHippie89
Riiiiight, i played ha up untill my R6 and then stopped because ha is gimmick after gimmick after gimmick(thats another story alltogether)

i simply said MOST of them do not use the skills balanced in this nerf and if they did its not like 55'ers were kicked out of existence

also, if your pve skills did take a bit of a hit with this nerf, it is not a major nerf and to compensate you have an entire list of overpowered pve only skills, for example There's Nothing to Fear, and Save Yourselves, +100 armor to the rest of your team and 35% dmg reduction beyond that and if that doesnt make things mind numbingly easy....pop a conset and be damn near invincible

i did pve for some time before i switched to pvp, and when not gvging i do work on my pve main...ive seen both sides of the spectrum where as you with your "prestigious" FoW armor+Chaos gloves that are so wise in the ways of pve have probably NEVER seen anywhere near high end PvP and henceforth can not possibly understand why these nerfs took place other than "boo hoo i cant vanqish without a 10 energy aegis"

I stick with my previous statement. I think your reply more than justifies my reasoning.

shoyon456

shoyon456

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

D/

Honestly, I totally agree.
I play a derv, and out of every derv-nerf-update ive seen (excluding the grenths aura one) I'm not too saddened by etermites and mystic.

The problem is, all anet continues to do is NERF most skills from particular classes, and buff other classes to freakin brilliance. How about anet looks at EACH skill individually, and then standardize it that way. There are many skills that remain to be...less than useful...

I D E L E T E D I

I D E L E T E D I

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

[BAAA] guest me NOW

Mo/

I agree with this Update being Permanent.

The OP is ignorant in thinking what he thinks

There are a lot of people in this thread who have no idea what the hell they are talking about.

/signed

psycore

psycore

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Nice big chunk of ignorance coming from the OP. How about offering reasonable suggestions of balance instead of lumping all PvE players together and assuming only certain play styles are adopted.

Nightmares Hammer

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2007

W/

Too many retards in this thread.







PvE For The Win.

Darkobra

Darkobra

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Scotland

Type like an idiot, I'll treat you like an idiot

E/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator
1) I've never seen anyone use ele skills in PvE except AoE fire.
2) Monks in PvE dont use aegis... they use Healer's Boon + seed of life + healing seed.
1. I use Earth and wards.
2. Yes I do.

You can't assume all of PvE has the skill of an average PUG. Those of us that can do the game easily generally do it with hero and hench or other guild members/close friends.

Phoenix Tears

Phoenix Tears

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2007

good things of it should stay, crap should get reverted ASAP


Good Stuff:

- Assassins Change
- Mesmer Changes on Hex Breaker, Fratility, Chaos Storm and Fevered Dreams
- Necromancer Change
- Elementalist Changes about NPC's
- Ritualists Changes about NPC's
- Dervish Changes


Crap Changes.

- Mesmer Buffs on Energy Surge & Burn
- Nerf of Aegis without making its effect slightly better for the increase of Cost
- Elementalist Changes that have nothing to do with the NPC's of PvP Stuff
- Warrior Nerf 20s recharge just for 3 secs disabling attacks ..lol

-----

Cant say about it, if good or bad.

- Paragon Changes.

*******
*******

However, I personally find the buff of Energy Surge/Burn retarded, especially for Energy Surge, this skill is still somewhat of overpowered a AoE Spike Skill, a full mesmer group can annihilate with an Energy Surge Spike Wave of 8 timed ES's nearly anything instantly, that has high Energy ressources, so any caster classes can be killed too easily with ES Spike Waves, not to mention that such a spike wave also ibnstantly shuts down all foes due to the massive instant full energy drain to 0... such a group needs only to combine this insane spike power with other skills that trigger damage on 0 Energy to easily increase more the spike damage, lke hexing all foes first with Mind Wrack, before the Spike Wave follows and with 8 mesmers spamming this skill, there are only few professions left, which are anyhow dangerous for these groups and even against these have mesmer overpowered skills to easily shutdown foes, which rely on adrenaline and signets ...

Mesmers were ever for PvE too weak and for PvP way too powerful imo and that has never changed, what the devs should find for this profession finally a a good MIDDLE.

Mesmers for example should not be able to interrupt shouts and chants. This would have been somethign as job for an other new profession, but for mesmers it makes this class as shut downer too powerful.
Mesmers already have the most powerful shutdown function, against any caster classes, they can shut down all caster classes and thats imo heavy enough. I would go even so far, that the point of the unbalance in pvp lies in their ability, that they are also able to totally shutdown any melee/ranged classes. that should be imo for blanace more a job of blood necros. They should be the ones, which should have the job to shut down melee classes. This way would become Blood Magic also alot more useful, other then only as Support Attribute ...

I Can Cure Cancer

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2008

Dark Empire [DE]

E/

Of those generalizations and stereotypes none of them apply to me or anyone I know. The OP should be completely disregarded but his idea is valid I suppose. The changes wouldn't hurt PvE too badly and they do help PvP quite a bit so I'll just sign
/signed to make it official.

Motoko Kusanagi War

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2007

Team Paradigm [pd]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by pfaile
From this op poorly worded and elitist rant against pve, one would think that all PVPers are so orginal that you would never encounter the same build twice. Guess not, hmm.
Except its not a rant against pve. It was a statement about [rawr]'s build. PvPers are not original. Obs mode much? You encounter the same build constantly ran by different guilds. You obviously don't know much about PvP.

Stop talking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by I D E L E T E D I
I agree with this Update being Permanent.

The OP is ignorant in thinking what he thinks

There are a lot of people in this thread who have no idea what the hell they are talking about.
Including you? Nice.


Teach me ur pve ways divine! PLZ I RLY NEED!

Shai Lee

Shai Lee

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2006

Somewhere

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator
1) I've never seen anyone use ele skills in PvE except AoE fire.
2) Monks in PvE dont use aegis... they use Healer's Boon + seed of life + healing seed.
3) No one uses motivation paras in pve... they use imba-gons with PvE-only shouts.
4) Ritualists are exclusively used for resto heals and communing spirits.
5) Dervishes dont need to spike in PvE.
6) Mesmer AoE skills GOT BUFFED which is what PvE-ers have been crying for.
1) I use fire, air, water, earth.
2-5) Over-generalizations. Saying things like 'never' and 'don't' in sentences tend to turn out false.

Quote:
A-net needs to stop worrying about PvE.
If Anet stopped worrying about any aspect of their game, I don't see how that would help matters. I think that it would put me off if they did, whether they started focusing heavily on one side over the other (pve vs pvp). Personally I like the game balanced as a whole, whether I play a certain aspect of it more than others or not. If Anet were to actually follow your advice and 'stop worrying about PvE', then maybe they don't care enough about their product, so why should I care enough to buy it?

/notsigned

- The reasons I focused on in your post didn't seem enough to warrant making this suggestion permanent, at least to me. Besides, in games, hardly anything stays "permanent' since they're ever changing. At times, things will have to be reworked as the game evolves or new things are implemented.

xDusT II

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Melbourne

This update should stay permanent.

yum

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

W/E

Why the RED ENGINE GORED did they nerf disarm while shit like FF, WoD are left untouched.


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I D E L E T E D I

I D E L E T E D I

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

[BAAA] guest me NOW

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Motoko Kusanagi War
Except its not a rant against pve. It was a statement about [rawr]'s build. PvPers are not original. Obs mode much? You encounter the same build constantly ran by different guilds. You obviously don't know much about PvP.

Stop talking.


Including you? Nice.


Teach me ur pve ways divine! PLZ I RLY NEED!
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| Trolls this way please! |
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Hailey Anne

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

A/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator
Most of the time PvE players use full teams of Ursan anyways.
Not true PvErs.
Ursans a joke.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator
1) I've never seen anyone use ele skills in PvE except AoE fire.
Obsidain Flesh for DoA anyone?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator
2) Monks in PvE dont use aegis... they use Healer's Boon + seed of life + healing seed.
um alot of pve monks use Aegis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator
A-net needs to stop worrying about PvE. PvE is easy -- it has always been easy -- it will always be easy!
I agree that PvE is easy but not for everyone.
there are ALOT of people that still struggle to get through the first parts of the game.
If A-Net stopped worrying about PvE then guess what half the GW population would be gone and that would be bad for GW2 revenue.
Wont happen

pfaile

pfaile

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2007

Orlando

Divine Order of Heroes

P/R

Quote:
Originally Posted by Motoko Kusanagi War
Except its not a rant against pve. It was a statement about [rawr]'s build. PvPers are not original. Obs mode much? You encounter the same build constantly ran by different guilds. You obviously don't know much about PvP.
I do not claim to know anything about PvP. I do see a rant, sorry. Grouping all PvE players as Ursan or that no one uses any of the nerfed skills is just DUMB. SORRY.

I am like a lot of PvE ers out here. We could care less about PvP, not that we have anything against it, just don't care about it. The only time we remember it when there is a skill balance.

HawkofStorms

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

I'm a PvEer.



STOP BITCHING PVE PLAYERS! You are making the rest of us look bad. Start arguing the points that were made in the post about the skills, instead of just insulting him and calling him an "elitest." By insulting people without addressing the issues, YOU are being a PvE elitest.


The skills people are bringing up aren't even affected by the reccent nerf. Why did somebody bring up Obsidian Flesh? Why did somebody bring up Wards (the nerf to wards not affected GvG NPCs is specifically PvP only).

MarlinBackna

MarlinBackna

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2007

[TAM]

W/

Demeaning all of PvE makes me sad. The problem is that he would have said that 6 months ago, hell a year ago, regardless of the addition of PvE skills and HM, because there are sadly people like this playing GW. PvE skills just made their argument "better sounding", but also more demeaning at the same time. There are plenty of people that PvE almost exclusively that despise all PvE skills. Check the thread in Riverside called "Fastest Elite Area Times?", and you'll see at least 5 people in the thread that don't give a shit about 35 min FoW HM clears because they all use PvE skills/consumes.

Another problem that I see with this demeanor of PvE is that they actually hate PvP too. They hate the "gimmick after gimmick after gimmick" that is present in high-end PvP done by the "noobs" that have no real "skill". You know what that means for these elitists? They hate all of Guild Wars (now). They might have loved it once, but that love is completely gone. Why do you still play? Why do you still complain? Why do you still scorn with disdain? You don't even like the game, so why play it?

On a different note, this particular skill balance doesn't really matter to most PvE at all. It should be permanent, especially regarding the spirits and wards affecting NPCs, considering that has no effect on PvE at all (obviously ).