So, always seeking variants, or upgrades, to Sabway, I went ahead and did some (ok, a ton) of testing over the week and into the weekend. What I found was a little build I like to call Triple Threat.
The team:
1 Ritualist/Any: The Attuned Was Songkai Spirit Spammer
2 Ritualist/Any: The Preservation Channeler
3 Necromancer/Ritualist: The WoR Healer
While this is not three ritualists per say, the Necromancer uses basically all Rit skills, so w/e.
The First Ritualist:
[skill]attuned was songkai[/skill][skill]Ancestors' rage[/skill][skill]essence strike[/skill][skill]boon of creation[/skill][skill]shelter[/skill][skill]union[/skill][skill]bloodsong[/skill][skill]death pact signet[/skill]
The Second Ritualist:
[skill]ancestors' rage[/skill][skill]splinter weapon[/skill][skill]Preservation[/skill][skill]Mend body and soul[/skill][skill]spirit light[/skill][skill]protective was kaolai[/skill][skill]recovery[/skill][skill]death pact signet[/skill]
The Necromancer:
[skill]weapon of remedy[/skill][skill]vengeful weapon[/skill][skill]signet of lost souls[/skill][skill]mend body and soul[/skill][skill]spirit light[/skill][skill]protective was kaolai[/skill][skill]life[/skill][skill]death pact signet[/skill]
The Spirit Spammer keeps your party protected from heavy spike damage, and AoE damage, while also providing damage support, the Preservation rit keeps your team healed, while providing damage support, and the necromancer provides the brunt of the healing.
Splinter Weapon tears through mobs, and Rage helps to finish them off. I mainly run Mind Blast/RI when I play with this build, and it's cake. It turned Warband of Brothers into cakewalk with good aggro control.
Enjoy.
Mickeyway.
Edit: Small changes.
If your playing a heavy damage melee class, you can take our preservation for Weapon of Fury, modify the first rit to suit your needs, he's really optional, the second rit and the healer are really only the primary heroes.
Edit 2: I must say, these are incomplete. I am constantly looking for better skills to put in, and I will post as I find. Thank you.
My Triple Threat Rit Team
Mickey
Arch the
Seems like it will work fine.
I'll give it a go and see how it does.
I'll give it a go and see how it does.
Powerful White Man
Was your goal to create a good, working build, or a gimmick?
Mickey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerful White Man
Was your goal to create a good, working build, or a gimmick?
How bout you decide?
The First Rit was originally a paragon, but it didn't provide a lot of party support, and I ended up looking for hex removal from sabway.
The First Rit was originally a paragon, but it didn't provide a lot of party support, and I ended up looking for hex removal from sabway.
Antithesis
I never liked [[Weapon of Remedy] as the elite on Sab's N/Rt Restorer. I've really taken to [[Weapon of Fury] to support my physical toons and [[Weapon of Quickening] to support my casters. The builds are posted in Sab's thread and the 1 Player + 6 Heroes FoW thread.
Mickey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antithesis
I never liked [[Weapon of Remedy] as the elite on Sab's N/Rt Restorer. I've really taken to [[Weapon of Fury] to support my physical toons and [[Weapon of Quickening] to support my casters. The builds are posted in Sab's thread and the 1 Player + 6 Heroes FoW threads.
I'll have to try it. I might just sub either into one of the Rits. Raza (the first rit) would probably take Quickening and Xandra would take Fury.
Coloneh
no real synergy.
not much reason for Rt primaries.
to many spirits = no mobility
heroes totally fail at offensive spirits.
preservation is a crappy elite in an 8-man team. random heals are baed.
dont really need attuned in the first build, you could find a better elite.
not to bad though i guess. I wouldnt use it. try to mix in more profession skills, it seems like you are limiting yourself.
not much reason for Rt primaries.
to many spirits = no mobility
heroes totally fail at offensive spirits.
preservation is a crappy elite in an 8-man team. random heals are baed.
dont really need attuned in the first build, you could find a better elite.
not to bad though i guess. I wouldnt use it. try to mix in more profession skills, it seems like you are limiting yourself.
kobey
It looks workable. At least I know the healing and prot part is settled 
But how is the offensive part? I don't really have rit heros ready, so can't really try it out. But from looking at the skills, it seems to be a bit lacking on the offensive department.
But how is the offensive part? I don't really have rit heros ready, so can't really try it out. But from looking at the skills, it seems to be a bit lacking on the offensive department.
Sethellington
so to clarify (and this isn't a rant.) you have 4 damage spells over 24 slots?
essence strike
ancestor's rage x 2
splinter weapon?
it just seems to me like you wouldn't kill anything in the time it take your rits to run out of energy and wipe. might try it later anyway.
essence strike
ancestor's rage x 2
splinter weapon?
it just seems to me like you wouldn't kill anything in the time it take your rits to run out of energy and wipe. might try it later anyway.
Blu
I'll try to test this out after later if I can prep up two rit heroes.
I think that OoS would work better on the 1st rit. for e-management.
I'd also switch out preservation as the way the heals are distributed are random and won't help too much in 8-man groups. Perhaps it would WoQ or WoF would be better for that build elite.
Also, I think a motivation paragon could replace the 1st rit. Possibly using DA and Aria of Restoration for chants (In a caster heavy group) and Ballad of Restoration to relieve some pressure. For more offense it could also have Agressive Refrain, GftE, and two spear attacks. If your own build had a lot of burning skills in it, you could probably replace one of the spear attacks with ToF for damage reduction.
I think that OoS would work better on the 1st rit. for e-management.
I'd also switch out preservation as the way the heals are distributed are random and won't help too much in 8-man groups. Perhaps it would WoQ or WoF would be better for that build elite.
Also, I think a motivation paragon could replace the 1st rit. Possibly using DA and Aria of Restoration for chants (In a caster heavy group) and Ballad of Restoration to relieve some pressure. For more offense it could also have Agressive Refrain, GftE, and two spear attacks. If your own build had a lot of burning skills in it, you could probably replace one of the spear attacks with ToF for damage reduction.
Mickey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sethellington
so to clarify (and this isn't a rant.) you have 4 damage spells over 24 slots?
essence strike
ancestor's rage x 2
splinter weapon?
it just seems to me like you wouldn't kill anything in the time it take your rits to run out of energy and wipe. might try it later anyway. To Answer a few questions:
It really seems like I wouldn't be able to, but somehow it kills faster than I usually do with Sabway.
Heroes do fail at offensive spirits, I'm looking for a replacement for Bloodsong.
No real synergy, this is true. How much synergy does 1 MM, 1 SH nuker, and 1 Monk have?
The First Rit hero is really the gimmick build. The other two work well, but the first one, I just randomly threw skills together to come up with that. I was thinking of a paragon hero, but I couldn't get a good build together that protects the team like Shelter/Union. Advice on that would be great.
The builds themselves are not bad. The healing is phenomenal, if anyone starts dropping, bam, back to full.
Edit: That DA paragon suggestion looks good, I might try that out. I'm trying to think of a build for a paragon hero that makes my squishies...less squishy? lol.
I thought of a great idea. A sandstorm warder in that first spot. Helps with damage, and defense.
essence strike
ancestor's rage x 2
splinter weapon?
it just seems to me like you wouldn't kill anything in the time it take your rits to run out of energy and wipe. might try it later anyway. To Answer a few questions:
It really seems like I wouldn't be able to, but somehow it kills faster than I usually do with Sabway.
Heroes do fail at offensive spirits, I'm looking for a replacement for Bloodsong.
No real synergy, this is true. How much synergy does 1 MM, 1 SH nuker, and 1 Monk have?
The First Rit hero is really the gimmick build. The other two work well, but the first one, I just randomly threw skills together to come up with that. I was thinking of a paragon hero, but I couldn't get a good build together that protects the team like Shelter/Union. Advice on that would be great.
The builds themselves are not bad. The healing is phenomenal, if anyone starts dropping, bam, back to full.
Edit: That DA paragon suggestion looks good, I might try that out. I'm trying to think of a build for a paragon hero that makes my squishies...less squishy? lol.
I thought of a great idea. A sandstorm warder in that first spot. Helps with damage, and defense.
JoeKnowMo
At 16 Comm, 13 Spawn, Shelter prots for only 8 hits I believe. You don't have another big prot and that concerns me.
I tried triple Rit early in EoTN but didn't like the results too much, though admittedly I wasn't running the same builds as you. I can't figure out how this does better than Sabway... I'll give it a try sometime next week and find out for myself I guess.
I tried triple Rit early in EoTN but didn't like the results too much, though admittedly I wasn't running the same builds as you. I can't figure out how this does better than Sabway... I'll give it a try sometime next week and find out for myself I guess.
Mickey
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKnowMo
At 16 Comm, 13 Spawn, Shelter prots for only 8 hits I believe. You don't have another big prot and that concerns me.
I tried triple Rit early in EoTN but didn't like the results too much, though admittedly I wasn't running the same builds as you. I can't figure out how this does better than Sabway... I'll give it a try sometime next week and find out for myself I guess. I only lay down Shelter if the group I'm facing has fire eles, or eles of any kind usually. I have it canceled out for occasions like that, or if I want a quick fight with minimal damage.
I tried triple Rit early in EoTN but didn't like the results too much, though admittedly I wasn't running the same builds as you. I can't figure out how this does better than Sabway... I'll give it a try sometime next week and find out for myself I guess. I only lay down Shelter if the group I'm facing has fire eles, or eles of any kind usually. I have it canceled out for occasions like that, or if I want a quick fight with minimal damage.
Lhim
hmmm, I never had any luck with Splinter Weapon + other weaponspells on heroes.
Super Igor
uhm SW rocks but, ew, rits with no energy management is bad.
~Super Igor
~
~Super Igor
Sethellington
Quote:
Originally Posted by deank81
hmmm, I never had any luck with Splinter Weapon + other weaponspells on heroes.
From my experience, heroes use Splinter Weapon very admirably.
Lhim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sethellington
From my experience, heroes use Splinter Weapon very admirably.
I know they do, but I mean Splinter Weapon in combination with other weaponspells like WoW or VW for example. When I play as my Warrior Xandra tends to 'overwrite' Splinter Weapon sometimes with another weaponspell. But to be honest, I haven't tried multiple weaponspells on multiple heroes. I imagine it's not much better then.
Super Igor
Nobody uses WoW...
~Super igor~
~Super igor
DarkSpirit
1. Too defensive.
2. No body blocking and damage from minions. Sabway minions also do good damage with barbs, poison from death nova, and bleeding from jagged horrors
3. Spirits like Shelter or Preservation suck nowadays since they are expensive to cast and they dont last long. Protective Spirit on whoever needs it, is more effective.
4. No party wide condition handling as with Li Ming in Sabway and Recovery on its own is too limited.
5. Second Ritualist would face energy issues since she is a primary Rit with absolutely zero energy management skill on her bar. You just cant design a primary Rit bar like Sab does with her N/Rt.
6. No weakness or blind which are easy and energy-efficient defensive conditions to apply for PvE. At least Sabway necro casts some AoE weakness. Antithesis's idea of using Shadowsong to protect his backline casters is better at making use of Communning.
Preservation does not always make good healing choices. I can understand you exploring Channeling, Communning, and Restoration options in the Rit profession but I dont think the choices that you made are that effective for HM as a whole.
You need better energy management if you are using Rit primary, also learn to exploit more of their primary attribute Spawning Power, like [Empowerment], which is what primary Rits have that secondary Rits dont. As with the builds, I dont see any good reason to use primary Rits over N/Rts that can exploit Soul Reaping.
SR makes a significant difference to their energy bar, if you have tested the exact same rit builds on a primary Rit versus a N/Rt with Sab's MM present, you would know how much of a difference SR makes.
It is hard making an effective caster primary rit for a hero because the rit energy management skills are very conditional and limited without resorting to an elite. So most decent primary rit hero builds tend to be gimmicky, use channeling for energy management, and/or they use the elite slot for energy management.
2. No body blocking and damage from minions. Sabway minions also do good damage with barbs, poison from death nova, and bleeding from jagged horrors
3. Spirits like Shelter or Preservation suck nowadays since they are expensive to cast and they dont last long. Protective Spirit on whoever needs it, is more effective.
4. No party wide condition handling as with Li Ming in Sabway and Recovery on its own is too limited.
5. Second Ritualist would face energy issues since she is a primary Rit with absolutely zero energy management skill on her bar. You just cant design a primary Rit bar like Sab does with her N/Rt.
6. No weakness or blind which are easy and energy-efficient defensive conditions to apply for PvE. At least Sabway necro casts some AoE weakness. Antithesis's idea of using Shadowsong to protect his backline casters is better at making use of Communning.
Preservation does not always make good healing choices. I can understand you exploring Channeling, Communning, and Restoration options in the Rit profession but I dont think the choices that you made are that effective for HM as a whole.
You need better energy management if you are using Rit primary, also learn to exploit more of their primary attribute Spawning Power, like [Empowerment], which is what primary Rits have that secondary Rits dont. As with the builds, I dont see any good reason to use primary Rits over N/Rts that can exploit Soul Reaping.
SR makes a significant difference to their energy bar, if you have tested the exact same rit builds on a primary Rit versus a N/Rt with Sab's MM present, you would know how much of a difference SR makes.
It is hard making an effective caster primary rit for a hero because the rit energy management skills are very conditional and limited without resorting to an elite. So most decent primary rit hero builds tend to be gimmicky, use channeling for energy management, and/or they use the elite slot for energy management.
Snow Bunny
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor
Nobody uses WoW...
You mean Weapon of Warding?
ups your bad?
And for reference, heroes use splinter admirably as long as you're not using a caster weapon. As a primary monk, if I let them go on autopilot, they'll splinter me constantly.
ups your bad?
And for reference, heroes use splinter admirably as long as you're not using a caster weapon. As a primary monk, if I let them go on autopilot, they'll splinter me constantly.
stretchs
I smell a death pact death chain, need to get yourself a non dps res in there imo. I can see this working but with more patience because of the recharge on the spirits and such
Coloneh
Quote:
Originally Posted by stretchs
I smell a death pact death chain, need to get yourself a non dps res in there imo. I can see this working but with more patience because of the recharge on the spirits and such
DPS is the best rez skill in the game. dont be silly.
Super Igor
Not anymore, nefed hundreds of times already and is hardly worth using now.
P.S. Very constructive post Coloneh.
P.S. Very constructive post Coloneh.
Snow Bunny
DPS is a fast, free hard rez with little drawback.
It's the best Rez skill.
It's the best Rez skill.
Super Igor
I dont agree, it was good before it got a large nerf.
Snow Bunny
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor
I dont agree, it was good before it got a large nerf.
What skill (for Res) is better and why?
Super Igor
Best Res - No Res.
Well, considerring that the recent nerf wold be reverted I would go for FoMF. In my opinion a low e-cost spell with no recharge is good for In battle rezzing.
FoMF is also less dangerous on important characters.
Well, considerring that the recent nerf wold be reverted I would go for FoMF. In my opinion a low e-cost spell with no recharge is good for In battle rezzing.
FoMF is also less dangerous on important characters.
Snow Bunny
No Rez means your team dies.
Assuming this gets reverted - It costs no energy, 3 sec casting time, 12 second recharge.
You can't beat that. If you're dying frequently enough to trigger to chain of deaths, your team-build has a problem, not the skill. Furthermore, even if you die under the effects of DPS, you take no DP.
Assuming it doesn't get reverted - It costs 1 more second to cast, that's all.
You still can't beat that.
Assuming this gets reverted - It costs no energy, 3 sec casting time, 12 second recharge.
You can't beat that. If you're dying frequently enough to trigger to chain of deaths, your team-build has a problem, not the skill. Furthermore, even if you die under the effects of DPS, you take no DP.
Assuming it doesn't get reverted - It costs 1 more second to cast, that's all.
You still can't beat that.
Super Igor
I still wont take DPS on a majority of my team, one character with DPS is enough. having a team packed with DPS's could lead to a suicide.
Snow Bunny
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
You can't beat that. If you're dying frequently enough to trigger to chain of deaths, your team-build has a problem, not the skill.
Mmmmmmmmmhmmmm....
Coloneh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor
I still wont take DPS on a majority of my team...
but judging from your posts, most of this fourm knows that you are terrible at the game. why would we want to do what you do?
Super Igor
Judjing by your posts Coloneh you are a prick, and no matter what Im better than you.
Mickey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor
Judjing by your posts Coloneh you are a prick, and no matter what Im better than you.
Look, Igor and Coloneh, even Snow Bunny, stop having flame wars, and focus on the build.
Igor: DPS is the best res out there, after the two weeks is up, and it gets reverted, it will officially be the best res out there.
Snow Bunny and Coloneh: Guys, you know the drill, it's a forum. People make mistakes, and back it up, but no need to be pushy or pricky about it.
All three of you: Just move on, discuss better skills for the build, I've had wonderful helpful feedback from alot of people, I would appreciate and use any from you guys. Thanks a ton
Igor: DPS is the best res out there, after the two weeks is up, and it gets reverted, it will officially be the best res out there.
Snow Bunny and Coloneh: Guys, you know the drill, it's a forum. People make mistakes, and back it up, but no need to be pushy or pricky about it.
All three of you: Just move on, discuss better skills for the build, I've had wonderful helpful feedback from alot of people, I would appreciate and use any from you guys. Thanks a ton
Snow Bunny
The build has no synergy and little to no offense.
If the rest of the team is offensive, then ok. But this is just a bunch of defense spirits with some channeling spikes thrown in.
Antithesis
I have to agree, the build isn't particularly offensive, but Mickey's at least trying to find a reason to take a Rt Hero along for the ride. Unfortunately there's not a single Rt Hero build i'd take over a N/Rt equivalent, which is sad because I quite like Razah and his little teapot outfit 
Coloneh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickey
Look, Igor and Coloneh, even Snow Bunny, stop having flame wars, and focus on the build.
I already comented on the build (no synergy) and I was defending one of the greatest skills in the game from the argument "I dont use it, so its bad" by pointing out a player who obviously fails. done now, dont get all high and mighty on us.
Mickey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloneh
I already comented on the build (no synergy) and I was defending one of the greatest skills in the game from the argument "I dont use it, so its bad" by pointing out a player who obviously fails. done now, dont get all high and mighty on us.
You said, your limiting yourself by not trying other professions skills in there.
Which is fine, but suggestions for those skills would be fine. Igor is wrong, it's fine, but taking up a page of the thread to argue it against him when it's obvious he doesn't understand the mechanics and strengths of the skills is ridiculous. Suggestions, or don't post.
Edit: Yeah, it has no synergy, is there a problem with that? Does every good hero build have to have synergy? Sabway synergy is broken by lack of corpses, Racthoh's Paraway synergy is broken by heavy anti-shout hexes. There are strengths and weaknesses to any build, no matter if it has synergy or not, I just want to make this build stronger, rather than start over to gimp myself to a build with synergy. Is there not a good build that doesn't have synergy out there?
I will agree to Antithesis though, a necro is probably better than a Rit in this case. I just hate having to always take a necro hero for soul reaping, when I could try something else.
Which is fine, but suggestions for those skills would be fine. Igor is wrong, it's fine, but taking up a page of the thread to argue it against him when it's obvious he doesn't understand the mechanics and strengths of the skills is ridiculous. Suggestions, or don't post.
Edit: Yeah, it has no synergy, is there a problem with that? Does every good hero build have to have synergy? Sabway synergy is broken by lack of corpses, Racthoh's Paraway synergy is broken by heavy anti-shout hexes. There are strengths and weaknesses to any build, no matter if it has synergy or not, I just want to make this build stronger, rather than start over to gimp myself to a build with synergy. Is there not a good build that doesn't have synergy out there?
I will agree to Antithesis though, a necro is probably better than a Rit in this case. I just hate having to always take a necro hero for soul reaping, when I could try something else.
Snow Bunny
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickey
Edit: Yeah, it has no synergy, is there a problem with that? Does every good hero build have to have synergy? Sabway synergy is broken by lack of corpses, Racthoh's Paraway synergy is broken by heavy anti-shout hexes. There are strengths and weaknesses to any build, no matter if it has synergy or not, I just want to make this build stronger, rather than start over to gimp myself to a build with synergy. Is there not a good build that doesn't have synergy out there?
I will agree to Antithesis though, a necro is probably better than a Rit in this case. I just hate having to always take a necro hero for soul reaping, when I could try something else. In fact, no. There are no good builds that don't have synergy.
Synergy is what makes the build good. Your rits will throw down some spirits, channeling spike a bit, but things like sabway/racthohparabuttbuddyway will be better because they work better.
Heck, even SFway with a TOF! Paragon works because the skills work together and combine.
Remember, bar compression is key in a game where you can only select 8 skills. So every skill has to count.
I will agree to Antithesis though, a necro is probably better than a Rit in this case. I just hate having to always take a necro hero for soul reaping, when I could try something else. In fact, no. There are no good builds that don't have synergy.
Synergy is what makes the build good. Your rits will throw down some spirits, channeling spike a bit, but things like sabway/racthohparabuttbuddyway will be better because they work better.
Heck, even SFway with a TOF! Paragon works because the skills work together and combine.
Remember, bar compression is key in a game where you can only select 8 skills. So every skill has to count.
Mickey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
In fact, no. There are no good builds that don't have synergy.
Synergy is what makes the build good. Your rits will throw down some spirits, channeling spike a bit, but things like sabway/racthohparabuttbuddyway will be better because they work better.
Heck, even SFway with a TOF! Paragon works because the skills work together and combine.
Remember, bar compression is key in a game where you can only select 8 skills. So every skill has to count.
I see where your going. Hmm.
Since spirits for SR were nerfed, can't really do alot with that. Eh, w/e.
Synergy is what makes the build good. Your rits will throw down some spirits, channeling spike a bit, but things like sabway/racthohparabuttbuddyway will be better because they work better.
Heck, even SFway with a TOF! Paragon works because the skills work together and combine.
Remember, bar compression is key in a game where you can only select 8 skills. So every skill has to count.
I see where your going. Hmm.
Since spirits for SR were nerfed, can't really do alot with that. Eh, w/e.
Coloneh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickey
Edit: Yeah, it has no synergy, is there a problem with that? Does every good hero build have to have synergy? Sabway synergy is broken by lack of corpses, Racthoh's Paraway synergy is broken by heavy anti-shout hexes. There are strengths and weaknesses to any build, no matter if it has synergy or not, I just want to make this build stronger, rather than start over to gimp myself to a build with synergy. Is there not a good build that doesn't have synergy out there?
yes, there is a huge problem with that. synergy is the key to build success. when you are limited by number of skills, professions, attribute points, and number of players finding skills that work together is extreamly important.
Sabway and Paraway work so well because all of the builds synergize and are not easily countered. few corpses dosnt hurt sabway that much because of jagged bones and energy from others dieing. paraway is strong, because anti-shout skills are virtually non-existant. all builds do have strengths and weaknesses, but they key to team builds is making builds whose strengths cover other member's weaknesses.
Think of builds in less of an RPG sense and more like building a deck for something like magic. you need to pick the best skills, with great combinations that you can use with your resources.
Sabway and Paraway work so well because all of the builds synergize and are not easily countered. few corpses dosnt hurt sabway that much because of jagged bones and energy from others dieing. paraway is strong, because anti-shout skills are virtually non-existant. all builds do have strengths and weaknesses, but they key to team builds is making builds whose strengths cover other member's weaknesses.
Think of builds in less of an RPG sense and more like building a deck for something like magic. you need to pick the best skills, with great combinations that you can use with your resources.