A random hero Rit idea.

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

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A/W

21 Apr 2008 at 19:37 - 1

Lately I was doing some Hard Mode gwen being using [Ursan Blessing] and my usual three heroes including the Rt/N with [mark of pain] and [barbs]. While not using daggers as a prime source of damage I found the nec hexes a bit useless in that case especially MoP which makes foes scatter, so I came up with this:
[build name="Razah" build prof=Rt/Mo chan=12=1+1 smit=10 rest=8+1][defenders zeal][ancestors rage][splinter weapon][smite hex][smite condition][death pact signet][zealot's fire][protective was kaolai][/build]

This build uses similar "Hybrid" principle as the Rt/N, dealing mediocreish damage through the smiting skills.

Any constructive criticism?

~Super Igor

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

21 Apr 2008 at 19:39 - 2

Needs more [ancestors' rage], imo.
And maybe switch out Defender's Zeal for Offering of Spirit.

pipo

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2008

the fire figters

21 Apr 2008 at 19:42 - 3

but with offering of spirit you would sacrifice health without a spirit. so defenders zeal is ok

Richardt

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2007

http://friendsofloa.com/forum

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21 Apr 2008 at 19:42 - 4

I believe Zealot's Fire also causes scatter. So if you're looking to cause less scatter, then I would swap that out. Maybe use Castigation Signet (however it's spelled

) for a bit of extra energy-I noticed heroes do pretty good targeting attacking foes with that skill.

I've never noticed foes to scatter with MoP. However, back when I did use Ursan, I did notice that the AoE knockdown could cause the enemies to scatter once they got back up.

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

21 Apr 2008 at 19:43 - 5

Uhm, Its hase Ancestor's already. The question is what could work better and when; OoS or DZ?

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

21 Apr 2008 at 19:46 - 6

OoS, in my opinion.
Energy on use, and since things die fast in PvE, Defender's Zeal will be a bad idea.

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

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21 Apr 2008 at 19:48 - 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardt

I believe Zealot's Fire also causes scatter. So if you're looking to cause less scatter, then I would swap that out. Maybe use Castigation Signet (however it's spelled

) for a bit of extra energy-I noticed heroes do pretty good targeting attacking foes with that skill. As far as i now scatter fom Zealot's is somewhat minor, it triggers only if it's damage per second is consistant enough, no? Can be wrong though.

Powerful White Man

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2008

21 Apr 2008 at 19:53 - 8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

As far as i now scatter fom Zealot's is somewhat minor, it triggers only if it's damage per second is consistant enough, no? Can be wrong though.
Causes scatter if skill channeling is "chained" (you are casting x skill, and y skill icon is blinking because it will begin to cast IMMEDIATELY after x is finished).

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

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21 Apr 2008 at 20:02 - 9

Ok then considerring the 1/4 cast delay heroes have between skills it should be fine, because I honestly have not seen any scattering so far.

Nightow

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Kindred Order of Souls [KOS]

21 Apr 2008 at 20:12 - 10

Heroes suck with [Offering of Spirit].
Sad, but true!

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

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21 Apr 2008 at 20:16 - 11

Yes, they are not good with OoS but not too bad either, they just dont spam it very often, so you should click it youself every time it rechrges.

Teutonic Paladin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

21 Apr 2008 at 20:20 - 12

They suck even more with DZ, they cast it on whatever you're attacking.

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

21 Apr 2008 at 20:25 - 13

I think they used to, hoenstly, one of the reasons I have created this build is to test how they use DZ, and they use it fine! I can call myself shocked.

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

21 Apr 2008 at 20:30 - 14

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

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21 Apr 2008 at 20:38 - 15

Problem with Rit Elite Spells is that there are not much usefull ones. :\

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

21 Apr 2008 at 20:41 - 16

Agreed there.

OoS is still quite helpful, because heroes fail at emanagement.

zling

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

21 Apr 2008 at 20:48 - 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Unless the build is extremely efficient with a lot of bar compression, your elite should never be taken up by e-management.

I understand builds like Boonprot, Eprod, Bippers, and the like all use emanage as their elites, but the power of those bars is(was) draining on energy yet sufficiently powerful to warrant such.

If you're speccing into smiting, skills like Castigation Signet work quite well. Also, I hope Zealot's Fire is truly putting out enough damage to a. work its way onto your bar b. warrant the diverting of your elite to be emanagement.

Skills like Strength of Honor would more appropriately use up the energy provided. Also - heroes tend to use skills like DZ poorly, unless of course, you're microing them.
there's 1 thing you're missing. some classes dont have good elites to fit in certain builds, which is why you use an e-management elite in the first place. lets take some examples:

Boon Prot: back in the day there really wasnt any elite that justified replacing e-management nor were there good ways for e-management besides elite skills. yes you did have SoR, SoD, RC, etc but those arent very critical to the concept of the boon prot...

Eles pre nightfall: before SF, SH and MB eles had like the worst elites in the game. nothing, but really nothing was a half decent option besides dual attunements or in some cases AP(yes sin skill not even ele) the only other option was Shatterstone but meh, Water never was and still isnt a very popular element of choice for the majority of eles...

Rits: Rits fill the pain Eles felt until nightfall, their good elites got nerfed and now they're left with crap. I'm sorry but Preservation, Spirit Light Weapon, Weapon of Quickening, Ritual Lord, Consume Soul, Reclaim Essence, etc dont justify the elite slot. neither do Grasping was Kuorong(sp) and Destructive was Glaive unless it's some gimmicky spike. so they're stuck with OoS and Signet of Spirits(with mantra of inscriptions and a few other signets)

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

21 Apr 2008 at 20:52 - 18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Problem with Rit Elite Spells is that there are not much usefull ones. :\ He's speccing hard into smiting here.

Signet of Removal will do the trick. All I was saying is that it's bad to use your elite for e-management, especially when the elite won't be used properly.

@ Zling. The builds you mentioned use energy-management for elites because it had good synergy with the efficiency of the build. Boonprot , as an amazingly efficient monk bar, nonetheless required heavy energy-management to compensate for Divine Boon's e-demand. Eprod on eles afforded eles the ability to run a bar full of 10/15e spells with relative ease. The Eprod bar was full of utility tools, which a. made the bar very sexy and efficient b. very demanding on the energy pool. Rits pre-NF had Ritual Lord and Wanderlust (yes, I know they were nerfed, but those skills were very powerful pre-nerf) and after NF they gained Weapon of Remedy. Attuned Was Songkai was also run in some tournament by a top GvG guild, I don't remember what it was but I'm looking.

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

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21 Apr 2008 at 20:52 - 19

Yeah, but you should just click OoS yourself every now and then.

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

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21 Apr 2008 at 20:57 - 20

DZ Is used quite fine by heroes to be honest, not always but hey.

zling

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

21 Apr 2008 at 21:01 - 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

He's speccing hard into smiting here.

Signet of Removal will do the trick. All I was saying is that it's bad to use your elite for e-management, especially when the elite won't be used properly.
I'm sorry but in the ops current build the only e-management is the elite. take it out and the hero will spam his skills until his energy runs dry and than he's useless. yes signet of removal may work as it's a signet but meh, your hero should do more than spam signet of removal

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

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21 Apr 2008 at 21:04 - 22

true

/12 chars

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

21 Apr 2008 at 21:08 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

I'm sorry but in the ops current build the only e-management is the elite. take it out and the hero will spam his skills until his energy runs dry and than he's useless. yes signet of removal may work as it's a signet but meh, your hero should do more than spam signet of removal

It's my whole point - is the build getting maximum efficiency for the requirement of elite e-management?

No.

Zealot's Fire, unless you're tanking with the bloody hero, will not provide enough damage output to warrant its energy demand. We can argue about the elite but that's ignoring the greater issue here - the bar can be more efficient.

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

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21 Apr 2008 at 21:11 - 24

It already has Smite Hex/Condiotion, Zealot's is there to add some more damage to these skills. Signet of Removal is not needed in my opinion but good e-management is.

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

21 Apr 2008 at 21:15 - 25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

It already has Smite Hex/Condiotion, Zealot's is there to add some more damage to these skills. Signet of Removal is not needed in my opinion but good e-management is. At your spec (10) ZF is dealing 25 fire damage a shot. You have 4 spells on your bar that target an ally, each with a recharge of 8-12. That means the damage output from ZF will be very low - it's why Searing Flames is not very good in HM but physical damage with buffs is.

Your 25 fire damage will be reduced to something quite little (let's assume by 25%, so rounding up, 19) and your hero isn't spamming skills every second to compensate for the significantly reduced damage.

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

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21 Apr 2008 at 21:19 - 26

Yeah, on some targets ZF's damage is quite minor.

On other hand when this hero uses, say, Smite Hex or Condition on a character mobs do scatter from that character so it can be useefull to repell mobs from backline. ;\

Antithesis

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

BrisneyLand

Sphincter Says [What]

22 Apr 2008 at 00:17 - 27

Stormlord Alex

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Dec 2005

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Soul of Melandru [sOm]

W/E

22 Apr 2008 at 00:26 - 28

Drop Zealot's Fire for [[castigation signet], then take a useful utility elite - [[empathic removal] or [[signet of removal] come to mind. You can argue till you're blue in the face, but it won't make the pitiable damage from ZF worth the energy drain and skill slot.