Lost in a dying MMO world. Please Help!

Guild Wars fits the bill for what you're looking for. Just keep in mind its not an MMO per se, but a cooperative online game. It really isnt that deep. Its a lot of fun and the gameplay can be challenging in some places when you start out. Its easy to get started without much investment, as each of you can get the same chapter to start and there is no monthly fee. You can then round out your party with AI if you dont want to invite other players.

Well since your coming from WoW I wouldn't call guild wars challenging in pve. I wouldn't even call guild wars a mmorpg.

Develop? Oh ok.

GW prophecies: Skill > Time.
GW Current: Time > Skill.

Want a list as to why? Well, i'll get it started, and those who are not ignorant will fill the rest in:

- Titles. Great, they're optional? Or are they? Kind of leads into reason #2:

- PvE only skills. They are tied to a title, and the only way to get them stronger is to grind. This might seem great because, ya know, you could always.. not use them. But from what i hear, rank8-10 Ursan is a requirement for PuGs. Not only this, but most "elite" PvE guilds are now just Ursan scrubs with little to no skill - watering down everything in GW that ever required skill.

- Sunspear & Lightbringer. You have to up the ranks in it simply to progress with the story. Sure, if you did all the sidequests you wouldn't have to grind silly little bugs. But some don't do those quests, and so have to repetitively kill bugs: that is grind, which should never have entered GW.

- EOTN titles. Not only do you have to grind them to get into PuGs, but you have to grind simply to buy some nice new armour. What a joke, right?

- Not so much connected to grind, but the button-mashing fest in PvP these days hardly promotes skill now, does it?

More true? I'd settle on, less false, if you like. It has less compulsory grind than in other MMO's, yes, but there is no truth in the statement: GW rewards skill more than time put in.

GW rewards skill more than time than most MMOs.

There are these purely optional things called titles though, that allow folks who like to grind, to grind away. I don't like grid (except for like every 4th weekend, it's weird) so I merely dabble in titles.

Titles are just one optional aspect of the game though. I like that they're there, but I also equally like that I only have to pursue them if I want to. And that if I choose not to pursue them that I can still be perfectly successful at the game.

It pays to read the rest of the post, i find:
I don't care whether it has less grind than other MMO's. It is not Skill > Time anymore.

I've played WoW and GW. Both are games with a lot of strengths. I like GW better though.

- I like the "feel" of GW graphics better than the stylized cartoonish feel of WoW. Not saying that WoW doesn't have it's own graphical appeal - just that my preference is for GW style.

- I like the massive possibilities of character builds. Sure, if you play the more competitive types of pvp it's going to limit your options somewhat. But in pve you can really be creative and do some cool stuff.

- I like GW pvp better than WoW pvp.

- I like how in GW when a new expansion gets released that all my equipment doesn't become obsolete.

WoW is fun too. I could make a list of things that it's got that GW doesn't. But overall I'm really happy with my gaming direction

If you decide that you're not going to title grind then you still get to play GW in its purest form

Except you can't PuG. Anymore.

Oh, those EOTN armours look nice! Want them? Tough, you need to grind.

Want to get into PvP, but you have no skill? No problem! Choose from a vast selection of c-space button-mashing builds and get some cool titles & emotes!

Hai, dan, and cebalrai: not on topic, new thread or no post plx kthx.


On topic: If your looking for something that you can stuff a party with npc's, then yes, yes yes yes yes, you will LOVE guildwars. You can run a full npc-and-you group anytime, anywhere (except pvp, of course). Theres an occasional solo mission methinks.

Anyway, in detail about npc's (henchmen), in certain areas your options can be limited (beginner areas), but most of the time you will have a pick from a vast majority of different professions, but not only that, but different types of professions. Another wonderful thing is one character in gw can fill a VAST majority of roles, since you can change your attributes and secondary profession. Also, if you have NF or EoTN, you can get heroes and fully customize (armor, weapons, attributes, skills) them (3 heroes per group, the rest can be henchmen).

I cant say if this is your game, as I dont know you very well, but I dont see why you wouldnt like it, and at no subscription fee, I see no reason not to give it a try!

EDIT: I assume you'll be pve'ing? If you're doing it for the challenge, you'll have to restrict yourself from using some of the overpowered skill options (ursan, "Save Yourselves!") but if you're doing it for the shiny items and armor, you'll have to join ursan/whatever farming groups on the tougher missions, which you'll get real bored of real fast, but I dont think you'll care too much for the shiny items and armor.

DAN GO AWAY LOTRO IS HORRIBLE AND YOU KNOW IT

I uninstalled after first day of free trial ;_;

Tabula Rasa is a good NCSoft alternative to WoW (Guild Wars 2 may work well for you once its out). You can solo everything there at one point or another (some stuff you just go back to at a slightly higher level), and about everything can be done with around 3 players, including the instances. There are no npcs that join your party per-se, but its nice in the fact that since its a big war, there are allied npcs all over the battlefield that you can help and they will fight stuff with you for a bit.

www.playtr.com

plus, you don't have to start from scratch for every character class. for example, you make a character, then at level 5 choose to be a soldier or specialist (where they diverge), then make a CLONE for the other branch which is another level 5 character, so you get a solider and a specialist clone. same at level 15 and 30, so you seldom have to repeat stuff that you already did and only have to level up a class at the point it becomes different (fun) from the other branching class..

It's a sci-fi militaristic MMO by Richard Garriot (creator of Ultima) and owned by the same company that owns Guild Wars/ArenaNet (NCSoft).

It's not really for the hard core (and in fact has driven some hard core players/clans away) due to it not having a big endgame (raiding and such like WoW).

While some of the elements of GW would suit your entertainment value, the main and majority of them would not because you are a seasoned veteran of the carrot in front of the horse type of play. GW has no character progression beyond level 20, GW has no phat loot of unlimited value and quality like your EQ or WOW, it maxes at 15% more damage if your hit points are greater than 50 and you can either BUY them from an NPC merchant or you can even get them from collectors which is very easy to collect 99% of the resources you need and turn them in for max damage everything. Armor has no value other than LOOKS all ELITE armor has the SAME STATS as the next piece of ELITE armor and even has the SAME STATS as the cheapo 1500gp armor everything is about LOOKS in this game there is no progression at all as far as character or loot.

Basically what you'll be paying for is the storylines, and some side quests/missions. Once you complete all of that there is nothing left to obtain except silly titles that are meaningless for the most part except for a few choice PVE only advantage skills that make you godlike (Ursans Blessing) once you get that, welp there's still nothing to really use it for because there's no character progression or item progression or phat loot to obtain. You become as equal to the lowest retard in the game and he/she the same as you. You'll never be recognized by skill unless you pvp in some major guild as most bought their status or weaseled their way to their status using gimmicky builds like IWAY and ELE SPIKERS and RANGER Spam.

Mainly GW is for those that don't have time to play anything else, but, not the only reason. That's the best way to explain what it does and gives. Since there's no purpose and meaning as a long term goal in GW anyone can play it for as long as they want to get whatever it is they get out of it without having to pay those monthly fees. It's a SANDBOX mmo/mmorpg to me. It's the POOR mans mmo/mmorpg (many will say this isn't so, but, welp I've seen too many state that this is the main reason they play it so I just ignore those that would say differently).

Without character progression and new and better loots to find games like these grow old and boring just like your offline single player rpgs do. It's draw is that it's free and it has an open type of chat system in towns and outposts. But, when you really look deep into the whole it's just a skeleton of Diablo 2 without the phat loot and character progression.

If you liked EQ and the aspects of it where you had to "work" for stuff, GW isn't a game for you.

There's very little mandatory grind in GW compared to other MMOs, much less than in WoW. There are things you can choose to grind for, such as fancy armors and weapons but they give you no advantage in stats, only a rare skin. There's no character progression. An experienced player can get to max level (20) in 4-5 hours, a new one in as many days. (Not talking 4*24 here, just four days of normal playing)

PvE is very easy, if you're a seasoned MMO player it won't take you long to figure out the game and abuse it. Some of hard mode areas can be pretty hard, but only if you choose to not use overpowered PvE-only skills. Generally, PvE is easy.

Let's be realistic here.

In PvE, there's only one thing people work for. Namely, Ursan, rank 10.

The other things one can "work" for are Faction titles or chest running. These involve doing the same instance, running the same path, killing the same 5 NPCs for 500+ hours (game time, not world time).

Sadly, this is what it came down to. Today, WoW offers more challenge in PvE than GW does.

At this point in time? It's probably better to skip the old and wait for GW2.

Guild Wars will provide you with a new experience and between the campaigns/expansion, there's a lot of content to experience. A lot of people on these forums have become somewhat jaded, but for most people that I know who play GW, they've got ~2k+ hours worth of entertainment out of it. There's some reasonably challenging content which is pretty comparable to instancing in WoW, and hard mode which is basically like heroic instances in WoW, but through the entire world.

The main differences that you'll find is that you'll quickly reach the level cap and max gear- the progression after that is all in the skills that your character brings- you basically have infinite free respecs, with a skill and attribute system that is far more complex than WoW. Creating your own builds and experimenting with different skills can be fun, and you can adapt the way your character plays to your personal preferences. Alternately, you can look up cookie-cutter builds if you don't want to bother or want to min-max.

Guild Wars is no different- you'll run into a lot of immature people and people who are inept at the game if you PUG. However, the henchman/hero system lets you play through content with the number of people that you want, and fill in the rest with NPCs. If you have Nightfall or Eye of the North, the heroes help out a lot, as you can customize their skills and gear, and have some control over them. The henchmen in the other campaigns help fill out your party and are sufficient to get through the game, though they're not nearly as strong as a decent player.

If you're looking for a for a fun MMO that's different from WoW/EQ, GW is a good game that will probably keep you entertained. It's reward systems aren't as deep, which hurts it's lasting power, but it's got a large amount of content if you enjoy playing through new things. It has PvP, but it's separated from the PvE content, and neither seems to be overly favored(though both PvE and PvP players seem to feel that the developers favor the other side).

And for your last question, yes, the hero/henchman system is set up to let you play with just your friends and fill in the rest of the party slots with NPC's.

I hope this helped, and good luck with finding a new game, whether it's GW or something else out there.

I think you are too late. GW is near it's end in terms of development. Alot of players are now jaded (elitists) and don't take too kindly to new players. GW was once a fun game full of originality. Those days are gone. If you want to run a "fun" build you're gonna have to find your "own" groups to play with. Elitist know-it-alls are gonna rip you apart. It's very easy to bait and prove this.

1)Think of a random build you find fun.
2)Post it in this forum.
3)Wait for the anal retentive arm chair pro's to gather and ruin everything that makes your build fun for you because in their eyes it ain't good enough.

This happens daily. Ignore it.

You gave out the reason that you think WoW is "old and tiring" because "No one has to work for anything anymore. Everyone can do everything if you just put in enough time."

Let me tell you, GW is WORSE in that regard.

Moreover, you say "My friend and I are both pretty seasoned MMO players and we are just looking for a good atmosphere with fun albeit challenging gameplay". You're not gonna find it here (unless you think playing with stupid AIs team, or LFG for hours, or grind your ass off for something of value "challenging".

"The majority of the people in most online game are so bad that we have taken to running either a 3 man group or 5 toons with three people (myself and friend boxing 2) just to get things done to avoid interacting with people are are clearly very immature." Eh? Well...

In Guild Wars, majority of the people play with henchmen/heroes team just to get things done. Period. Nobody wants to avoid the human interaction. It's just that waiting for hours for such interaction to happen (and fail at what you try to do 5 min later) is so NOT FUN.

So my selling line to you: Don't bother.

The lot of you should be dangling yummy carrots in front of the person ... so he or she starts playing the game.

I'm an MMO vet too, started with Ultima Online (its still alive after 11 years!), then SWG (Sony killed it) and then this game. Graphically speaking, it's a lot better than WoW, EQ, UO, etc. but not up to par with the newer MMOs. You can visit www.guildwars.com to view some of the eyecandy before buying the game.

Whether you're a Rothschild or a pauper, nothing beats FREE ... as in, you buy the game, install it and never have to worry about monthly fees.

GW is mostly an instanced based game, the only time you'll be interacting with a people is when you're in towns. There are a few missions (if youre lucky) where you'll encounter another group of people doing the same quest/mission.

Persistent areas (towns) have population caps so you wont have to deal with massive lag due to hundreds or thousands of people. Most towns in the older games are empty. There are no massive time wasted going from town to town because you can click any town (that you've discovered/previously visited) and visit it on the world map.

Due to the no monthly fee, nonexistent to little grinding and flexibility, GW is populated by adults. The 20 > 999 kind. You'll have more stimulating conversations in this game (IMHO) than WoW.

Did I mention no GRIEFING, CAMPING, LOOTING and PKing in this game? ... You'll have to contend with the regular "noob" players or the rage-quitters tho ... but very rarely.

GW players are polite.

GW segregates the carebear people from the pvpers, although you'll probably interact with both in towns.

GW hosts tournaments with REAL prizes.

GW has a higher percentage of generous people than other games.


On that note, if you and your friends ever play GW, look me up ... ill hook you up and show you where the rabbits are.




Vladimir Drakken
Legion of Doom member