Is your computer security up-to-date?

Fril Estelin

Fril Estelin

So Serious...

Join Date: Jan 2007

London

Nerfs Are [WHAK]

E/

The question I'm asking may be simple, but it's actually quite complex. I'll first send a few links with info on the scale of the attack problem:
http://www.massively.com/2008/04/22/...aintream-news/
http://www.technewsworld.com/story/6...ome=1208940847
MMORPGs are becoming the next big thing to hack, because there's a load of money to make for them.

__________________________________________________ ____________________________
Now for the more concrete stuff:

1) Do you have an antivirus and a firewall running at all times (even when playing games)?

2) If so, are they automatically and regularly updated? (daily to hourly)

3) Do you run regularly anti-spyware software, such as Lavasoft AD-Aware and Spybot Search&Destroy (S&D)? (weekly or monthly)

4) Do you regularly update your Operating System and all applications? (possibly using the automated features such as Windows Automatic Updates)

5) Do you make sure that applications you install can be "trusted" (whatever this exactly means, e.g. you read reviews in a professional magazine or a reliable website, a knowledgeable friend recommended it to you, it's a paying app with customer support, etc.)?
See for example the list of 3rd party app that Anet lists:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guide...-game_graphics

6) Most importanly, do you have strong passwords and do you make sure not to use the same passwords for different site/applications?
To test your password strength, try these sites:
7) Do you regularly clean your browser and application data (such as caches, saved passwords)? (weekly)
Look at the very usefull tool CCleaner for this job.

8) Do you regularly back-up your sensible data? (monthly)

9) What do you do to raise awareness about security and trust around you (e.g., other people using your PC, members of your family, friends, guildies, Alliance members, colleagues)?

__________________________________________________ ____________________________

If you answered NO to any of these questions (except 8), there may be something to do to strenghten your computer security.

The reason why I'm creating this discussion is to try to improve the overall situation of GW players' security. Individually, we may be fine, but as we say "security is as strong as the weakest link". If you're secure but someone connected to you and that you trust is not, you may end up with security problems. It's only by raising the security standards for each and every GW player that we're better protected individually. That's why question 8 was added.

Feel free to contribute in any constructive way you see fit.

Hyper.nl

Hyper.nl

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2006

Defending Fort Aspenwood

E/

1) Do you have an antivirus and a firewall running at all times (even when playing games)?

> Yep. My Eset Smart Security is always watchful.

2) If so, are they automatically and regularly updated? (daily to hourly)

> Sure.

3) Do you run regularly anti-spyware software, such as Lavasoft AD-Aware and Spybot Search&Destroy (S&D)? (weekly or monthly)

> Yep, my security suite has anti-malware protection integrated in it. (Part of background scanning and on-demand-scan.

4) Do you regularly update your Operating System and all applications? (possibly using the automated features such as Windows Automatic Updates)

> Yes, I regularly download and install updates. Manually. I used to do this automatically but because MS Update rebooted my PC while playing a GW mission I had to turn it off...

5) Do you make sure that applications you install can be "trusted" (whatever this exactly means, e.g. you read reviews in a professional magazine or a reliable website, a knowledgeable friend recommended it to you, it's a paying app with customer support, etc.)?
See for example the list of 3rd party app that Anet lists:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guide...-game_graphics

> Not always. While I don't use 3rd party add-ons for GW I do download other software from the internet. Mostly from trusted sources but also from unknown sources. Everything does get scanned tho.

6) Most importanly, do you have strong passwords and do you make sure not to use the same passwords for different site/applications?

> Sure, I upgraded my personal password policy a few years ago and I think it's good now.

Fril Estelin

Fril Estelin

So Serious...

Join Date: Jan 2007

London

Nerfs Are [WHAK]

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by flubber
yea, too bad that this is the wrong place to tell people what they should know

-1 post because the truth ain't worth it...right?
On the contrary, this is exactly the right place to do this job. It's much easier to advice people to "buy this AV or turn on this feature", it's much more difficult to raise awareness about the problem of security.

This is exactly what I'm trying to do, I've got no problem discussing security at a technical level, but what I'm aiming at is "spreading the word around" and reach the places where security is "low". This is where hackers will earn money and users will loose big time.

I'm a strong believer that a collective effort is the only way forward and everyone can contribute collectively, while individually you're only responsible for yourself and I can't do anything to help you if you don't want to. While it's easy to biggyback this problem onto education, I think that a more relaxed approach like discussing it is more efficient and will reach these people that are not aware or don't care about it.

Spread the word around you.

Thanks to the mods for the cleaning!

P.S.: if you have constructive criticisms, I'm all ears!

Anarkii

Anarkii

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

-None-

R/Me

I don't have an antivirus or firewall(XP firewall turned off) or anti-spyware. .

Divinity Sword

Divinity Sword

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2007

Washington

Dragons of the Rose

R/

Just because it's newer, doesn't mean it's better. Good post for "teh nubz" though. Props.

Miska Bow

Miska Bow

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2008

somewhere, Grinding some l33t titles

Order of the Divine WoodChuck

R/

YES to all. Running an unsecure PC is playing the E-version of russian roulette.

MoriaOrc

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2007

No on 1-3 and yes on 4-6.

I used to do the others in the past, but #1 is a waste of cycles I'd rather be using, #2 is more of an N/A without #1, and #3 never found anything but the same old tracking cookies (all blocked now). I still set up new computers for others with 1-4 and encourage practice of 5 & 6, but I've found that I'm usually good enough at #5 that I don't need the automated tools to catch it.

I do have the tools around if I'm dealing with suspicious stuff, though. I just don't need to use it that often, especially since my current OS install is very "settled" and doesn't see a lot of new installs.

Stolen Souls

Stolen Souls

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

1) Do you have an antivirus and a firewall running at all times (even when playing games)?

Yes, always.


2) If so, are they automatically and regularly updated? (daily to hourly)

Yup


3) Do you run regularly anti-spyware software, such as Lavasoft AD-Aware and Spybot Search&Destroy (S&D)? (weekly or monthly)

Yup...Ad-Aware scan every Friday


4) Do you regularly update your Operating System and all applications? (possibly using the automated features such as Windows Automatic Updates)

Yup...again, every Friday.


5) Do you make sure that applications you install can be "trusted" (whatever this exactly means, e.g. you read reviews in a professional magazine or a reliable website, a knowledgeable friend recommended it to you, it's a paying app with customer support, etc.)?

Well I don't really install a new app per day or anything like that...I'm not one for having a bajillion applications installed on my PC. I only have installed, stuff that I need. But yes, when I do need to install something I check it out first.


6) Most importanly, do you have strong passwords and do you make sure not to use the same passwords for different site/applications?

I try to use passwords that are as strong as possible and can't be guessed easily, but also that I can remember without having to write every one of my passwords down, or realizing "dang...*clicks the I forgot my password button*". I also have multiple email addresses, one of which is dedicated only to my Guild Wars account, which I do not give out to anybody, or use to register anywhere else.

Fril Estelin

Fril Estelin

So Serious...

Join Date: Jan 2007

London

Nerfs Are [WHAK]

E/

I added a seventh question:

7) What do you do to raise awareness about security and trust around you?

Kamatsu

Kamatsu

Moderator

Join Date: May 2005

Australia

Please keep to the topic at hand. If you have any queries about deleted/missing post's then please PM a mod of this forum, or a forum Admin (such as Inde), and it will be looked into. Making public commentary about a mod's action's is against the Forum rules.

Please take the time to read the Forum rules:

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I MP I

I MP I

Hustler

Join Date: Nov 2006

in between GW2 servers

Mo/

1. Yes. Though I do shut off certain functions while playing games.
2. Yes. If I bother to turn my pc on.
3. Weekly.
4. Yes.
5. Yes.
6. Yes.
7. No. I'm the only person that uses the pc.

MirkoTeran

MirkoTeran

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2005

Slovenia

Scars Meadows [SMS]

Mo/

1. FW yes. AW no.
2. Yes.
3. Weekly (Scheduled).
4. Yes.
5. Yes. See *.
6. Yes.
7. For my home network - yes. I couldn't care less about the others. Their problems. Heck, I even get payed to fix them sometimes.

*But the first and the best point that is missing on your list is not to act like a idiot. With just a bit of common sense you can avoid 99% of the possible problems.

fenix

fenix

Major-General Awesome

Join Date: Aug 2005

Aussie Trolling Crew HQ - Event Organiser and IRC Tiger

Ex Talionis [Law], Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] ????????????????&#

W/

NOD32 covers me for everything virus/firewall wise (although, haven't needed a firewall...), updates itself all the time etc etc.

Don't scan Spybot until I think something is wrong, which is rarely.

And I have a brain, so that about covers me for security. I think really NOD32 and brain are all I need, apparently reading things helps when you want to stop viruses and spyware. Oh, and I spose not installing everything without looking at it.

Pleikki

Pleikki

WTB q8 15^50 Weapons!

Join Date: Nov 2006

???oo ???ugs ???lan [?????????]

Yes to all.. .. ... ^^

Fril Estelin

Fril Estelin

So Serious...

Join Date: Jan 2007

London

Nerfs Are [WHAK]

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by MirkoTeran
not to act like a idiot. With just a bit of common sense you can avoid 99% of the possible problems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fenix
And I have a brain, so that about covers me for security. I think really NOD32 and brain are all I need, apparently reading things helps when you want to stop viruses and spyware.
It's just too simply to piggyback the problem on "brains" and "idiocy", so long as you haven't made yourself the effort (with your brain) to understand why people are not "getting it". "Common sense" does NOT exist until you've made it explicit and explained what a majority should think, rather than what it does think. Put aside the lazy ones (because I or you can't go behind their screens and push them), how would you contribute to this thread to educate people? Define rules, behaviours and concrete steps on how to do that.

I'll go one step further than what I said before: security works like anti-virus body protection, where you need to be strong and healthy (eat 5 a day, vitamins, a bit of sport, room temperature, etc.) at your individual level but you also need good habits on how to behave in society (put your hands in front of your mouth when sneezing, wash your hands, etc.). Our security is dependent on others' and doctors try to raise awareness about these collective factors every day. Unless you live in a cave, with heavy walls (good technical knowledge), you can't escape this problem (many security professionals have been hacked).

(I'll put aside social engineering and risk calculation for the moment)
Thanks for your contributions!

MithranArkanere

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

Of course. I have a friend and we test each other computers, looking for vulnerabilities. The first one finding one wins and the other must treat to a beer net time we meet.

This system works wonders.

fenix

fenix

Major-General Awesome

Join Date: Aug 2005

Aussie Trolling Crew HQ - Event Organiser and IRC Tiger

Ex Talionis [Law], Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] ????????????????&#

W/

Okay, I'll give some tips. Just saying 'I have a brain' is a little simple.

On the most part, don't trust the internet. Don't trust popups, don't trust ads (unless they are on a site you trust, like Guru [<3 Inde]).

One good tip from me to you, is don't trust most of what is on Google page 2 and onwards. If you cannot find what you are searching for on Page 1, don't try the rest. It becomes further and further from what you want, and as you go, the content becomes seedier and seedier. Think of internet searches as an alleyway. For the most part, if you can't see what you want in the alley from the road, you stay away from it. Same goes for searches. If you can't see what you're after on page 1, don't go further.

This will stop a lot of the spyware/adware/malware from getting onto your computer.

Another good one, is don't ever open email attachments, unless you know for a fact that it's from a friend/colleague/etc. If the person sending it has physically told you "this is my email address", it's fine. Most of everything else isn't. I find that a lot of people are too trusting with email, but realistically...try to be the opposite.

A good way to stop all of this, is by using Firefox. Let's face it, Internet Explorer sucks. It is only the main browser because it comes packed with Windows. Firefox has less bugs, is more stable, and can have addons. This has been mentioned before, but you can get addons to do almost anything. Anything.

The best tip, is get a good anti-virus, that also has extra (handy) features, such as anti-spyware, or similar. I have used many over the years, and from experience, I would recommend the following;

1) NOD32. By far the best you can get, out of every anti-virus ever made.
2) Avira AntiVir. Free, 99%+ detect rate, and low CPU usage.
3) AVG. Free, 95%+ detect, average CPU, but lots of features.

Haven't tried any others, except Vet (bleh), as I did my research and those 3 were the best I felt I could get. Now that I have NOD32, I laugh at viruses.

I've come to recognise when Spyware is on this computer, as things start to slow down, and the internet can be affected. Unless you know the warning signs, I recommend getting Spybot Search & Destroy. It will detect almost every kind of spyware/adware/malware/etcetc, and is pretty fast too. It has some good features, such as the Immunize feature, which (god forbid) if you are using IE, it will automatically stop you from accessing something like 80,000 'bad' files, that contain the above 'wares'.

Aside from that, regarding my 'brain' comment, really make sure you're using it when you use the internet. Most people just assume things are safe, and mindlessly click through without thinking. Don't do that :P

Ctb

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

W/

I ran an XP Pro 32-bit machine for about a year and a half with no AV, no firewall, and never checking for junk. When I finally got around to it, I had one thing: a malicious java class. That always failed to launch.

Not doing obviously stupid things on the interwebs ftw.

Quote:
Another good one, is don't ever open email attachments, unless you know for a fact that it's from a friend/colleague/etc. If the person sending it has physically told you "this is my email address", it's fine. Most of everything else isn't.
I don't know what you're getting at here... just because it says it's from [email protected] doesn't mean it really is, because the only thing SMTP actually REQUIRES for successful delivery is the To: address (obviously). You can put whatever garbage you want in every other header field, and almost every machine on the planet has a telnet program, so almost every machine is capable of connecting to a mail server and doing just that.

Unless you were EXPECTING an attachment, you shouldn't open it. Besides... unexpected attachments are usually annoying and stupid anyway.

Quote:
A good way to stop all of this, is by using Firefox.
Absolutely false. Firefox is a good step, of course, but it won't save you from WINDOWS exploits that are accessed through the browser, bugs in other systems (image rendering, malicious flash ads, etc.), and it has shared a number of problems with IE throughout its history.

It's a good step, but don't give the false impression that it's a final one.

I always like to recommend Privoxy. It filters a lot of junk out and isn't terribly hard to get set up. I also like the big "blackhole" HOSTS files. Some purists whine about it, but the whole point of HOSTS is for a single machine to control its own idea of what is where on the network, so it's not breaking any standards, and unless you have a really old machine, the performance hit of loading all those entries isn't really a concern anymore.

Furthermore, simply turning on the Windows firewall is sufficient for 99% of home users. It's simple, it's fairly effective, and it stays out of the way for the most part.

JeniM

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2007

W/E

1) Do you have an antivirus and a firewall running at all times (even when playing games)?

Yes, According to the Uni network safety tool I have 6 different anti-virus/spyware

2) If so, are they automatically and regularly updated? (daily to hourly)

Daily

3) Do you run regularly anti-spyware software, such as Lavasoft AD-Aware and Spybot Search&Destroy (S&D)? (weekly or monthly)

They all run between 3am and 6am on automated scans

4) Do you regularly update your Operating System and all applications? (possibly using the automated features such as Windows Automatic Updates)

I have SP3

5) Do you make sure that applications you install can be "trusted" (whatever this exactly means, e.g. you read reviews in a professional magazine or a reliable website, a knowledgeable friend recommended it to you, it's a paying app with customer support, etc.)?
See for example the list of 3rd party app that Anet lists:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guide...-game_graphics

My anti-spyware deletes TexMod every day so I have to re-download it alot, and I always check the mirror I use is the FileFront one. I avoid things like rapid share like a plague

6) Most importanly, do you have strong passwords and do you make sure not to use the same passwords for different site/applications?
To test your password strength, try these sites:
Strong, according to the microsoft one

7) What do you do to raise awareness about security and trust around you (e.g., other people using your PC, members of your family, friends, guildies, Alliance members, colleagues)?

Not alot actually

fenix

fenix

Major-General Awesome

Join Date: Aug 2005

Aussie Trolling Crew HQ - Event Organiser and IRC Tiger

Ex Talionis [Law], Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] ????????????????&#

W/

Quote:
1) Do you have an antivirus and a firewall running at all times (even when playing games)?

Yes, According to the Uni network safety tool I have 6 different anti-virus/spyware
Actually, having more than one anti-virus is very counter-productive. You only want one running at a time, two can leech a lot of CPU power, and also can conflict with each other a lot.

Fril Estelin

Fril Estelin

So Serious...

Join Date: Jan 2007

London

Nerfs Are [WHAK]

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by fenix
Actually, having more than one anti-virus is very counter-productive. You only want one running at a time, two can leech a lot of CPU power, and also can conflict with each other a lot.
This is an urban myth, most AV companies know how to deal with other "serious" AVs (I hate the magazines with "free security suites" based on free AVs which add nothing to what other AVs can do). It's not necessary at all, unless you have very sensible stuff on your comp, but it works.

As Ctb said, Firefox is a good first step (I'd also advise plugins like NoScript) but you need to be very carefull all the time, but not paranoid. And be careful about email addresses, they sometimes look very similar.

(today in the BBC news, they announced that UK Internet Fraud amounted in 2007 to 500 millions pounds)

Etta

Etta

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

Mancland, British Empire

Would "Stop going to the porn sites" help as well?

Fril Estelin

Fril Estelin

So Serious...

Join Date: Jan 2007

London

Nerfs Are [WHAK]

E/

I moved question 7 to 8, and added a new question 7:

7) Do you regularly back-up your sensible data?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etta
Would "Stop going to the porn sites" help as well?
No it wouldn't help IMHO, because: a) it'd be insulting to the many people that don't frequent these sites; b) it'd derail the thread even further; c) if you know the general principle, you'll adapt to any situation (including the one you mention, though I don't see it often mentioned in the security field, I'm not even sure that these sites/companies want to hack their "customers").

Tamuril elansar

Tamuril elansar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2007

N/

i'm to lazy to install MCafee, got CD etc but can't be bothered.

Dylananimus

Dylananimus

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2007

The Eternal Champions

W/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by fenix

A good way to stop all of this, is by using Firefox. Let's face it, Internet Explorer sucks. It is only the main browser because it comes packed with Windows. Firefox has less bugs, is more stable, and can have addons. This has been mentioned before, but you can get addons to do almost anything. Anything.
QFT. Though obviously as has been said...it doesn't protect you from everything. You need to have anti virus, firewall, and spyware programs running at all times.

Cautionary tale follows....

I just got a new computer. It's all shiny and fast and has Vista. First thing I did was put Firefox on it, then obviously anti virus software. I stuck with Windows Defender for the spyware, and didn't put on a firewall. I was thinking I'd be ok with my router firewall and the windows firewall enabled. It had always been fine on my old comp.

How wrong I was.

Yesterday I did a routine scan and discovered I already got two trojans. Trojans designed to steal passwords, especially of online games the user plays. Yikes!

The anti virus software dealt with them, and I checked my system to make sure it didn't actually do anything. As far as I can tell the virus hadn't had chance to do it's nasty stuff. Right away I installed another spyware program to run with Windows Defender (as I've been told it's ok to run more than one spyware program at a time). I also downloaded and installed a firewall, and disabled the Windows one, as basically...it seems to be crap.

The reason I think I got a Trojan at all? I was on IE for like 10 mins yesterday before I did the scan. I'd followed a link from some HP gaming stuff that came free with the comp (which I've since uninstalled), to a free game. It opened IE automatically instead of Firefox.

Moral? Put everything you possibly can on your computer to keep it safe...and DO NOT forget to scan every day. Yes, every day. Especially if you use IE.

Ctb

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

W/

And, I know there are some DNS purists who get all pissy about doing it (and they're wrong since the HOSTS file is the original "DNS"), but I really like to use those big hosts files full of known baddies on machines I don't directly maintain. That and Privoxy keeps people out of a lot of craptastic sites, and nobody is going to come and complain to you that they couldn't get into some Russian site they found in Google after they searched for... uh.. yea...

Quote:
Put everything you possibly can on your computer to keep it safe...
No.

Adding extra chotchkies increases the probability of exploitation by increasing the complexity of the machine. Use 1 of each of the following:

- A reliable firewall, hardware or software
- A reliable AV
- A reliable patch service or tool

Windows XP onward includes an acceptable firewall and auto-updates. Slap on a decent A/V tool (and kill that stupid Norton trash that your vendor installed...) and you're good to go.

I don't condone normal users having things like Spybot and Ad-Aware, or tools that supposedly keep registries clean. There are false positives in those sorts of things and their logs need to be scrutinized by someone who knows what they're doing to ensure that benign programs aren't damaged.

I would also recommend, however, turning off caching, saved passwords, saved form fields, etc. in your browser. I have Firefox set up at home so that, basically, every time I close the browser it wipes out all saved information - browsing history, address bar history, saved form fields, passwords, cookies - all gone. Having to always log in to everything all over again every time you close your browser isn't really as terribly annoying as you might think.

People need to remember also that they're not defending state secrets on Pentagon computers here. You're going to keep out most, if not all, automated attacks just with Windows firewall and an up-to-date AV tool, and the manual attackers that are capable of breaking through your firewall and A/V probably aren't motivated enough by your collection of baby pictures to waste their time doing it.

Dylananimus

Dylananimus

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2007

The Eternal Champions

W/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ctb


No.

Adding extra chotchkies increases the probability of exploitation by increasing the complexity of the machine. Use 1 of each of the following:

- A reliable firewall, hardware or software
- A reliable AV
- A reliable patch service or tool

Ummm, the above you mentioned was what I was talking about -_-

But I would not use Windows firewall, it's basically craptastic.

Also, like I said...the Trojan I got was designed to steal passwords. Not state secrets I know, but still...not very nice I think you'd agree Especially if they're going to steal your GW password /

Ctb

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

W/

Quote:
But I would not use Windows firewall, it's basically craptastic.
It's "sufficient" for most users, which is all it needs to be. It's no very robust, and it's not very good at protecting you from internal threats trying to get out (e.g. "phone home" applications and viruses), but it's definitely sufficient for keeping out the majority of common internet threats to Windows machines, which is "good enough" for most people's machines.

Remember: on a home machine, your primary concern is saving yourself the hassle of having to rebuild and recover after an exploit. You should primarily be protecting yourself against inconvenience (read: you shouldn't be saving your damn bank info and taxes on an unencrypted drive on a home PC), so you have to balance the level of protection and scrutiny you give the machine and the likelihood that the attack you're defending against will ever happen.

Yea, someone MIGHT xmas scan you, then dig through 30 years worth of stolen driver code to find an exploit in your version of your network card's driver utilities and then launch that attack.... but probably not.

Selket

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

Grand Court of Selket/Sebelkeh

What If You Had An Outpost Named After You [slkt]

W/

I totally have maximum security, I run GW in WINE ofc.

Malice Black

Site Legend

Join Date: Oct 2005

Hacking home PC's just doesn't happen. Most viruses/trojans gain access due to owner/user being a dumb ass.

-Sonata-

-Sonata-

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2007

Pretty Hate Machines [NIN]

Me/

Another great secure browser is Avant browser that runs on the IE platform.

It's what I run and have for years now and is a very secure alternative to IE while still running the platform. I've had zero virus issues and high risk spyware on my systems since using it.

Picking up another security tip though, especially for gaming to keep on topic with the forum; While it may seem like common sense to many of us, the truth is this happens a lot more than realized. Don't share your accounts and the information with anyone. Treat your information as though it's your most prized posession. Don't share it with your best buddy, your Brothers, your sisters, your parents, your penpal in Siberia....Just keep it to yourself at all costs. No matter how complex your passwords are, if you blabber it to a "buddy" you might as well just make your passwords the same as your login.

Again, I know it sounds obvious, but it does happen more than some realize. It's pretty scary how "friends" just exchange passwords and logins for games.

Dylananimus

Dylananimus

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2007

The Eternal Champions

W/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malice Black
Hacking home PC's just doesn't happen. Most viruses/trojans gain access due to owner/user being a dumb ass.
Hmm, don't know if you could call me a dumbass for following a link to a game, that was installed on my computer by HP. It was amongst a whole host of games designed to eventually persuade the user to make an account with HP Games. Obviously, I trusted HP...and was burned for it.

All in all you just can't be too careful, and I think (name calling aside) we all need to remember that.

Thank you for the pretty name though

enxa

enxa

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Novi Sad, Serbia

Rt/

Over the years ive learned which sites to be cautious with, which stuff not to install, which e-mail messages not to open. I did use to be paranoic and have antivirus and firewall software, and several antispyware apps and did regular checks, but they are no longer needed.

1. I dont have an antivitus, i dont need one. Windows Firewall is on.
2. see 1.
3. Dont have any antispyware software besides the Windows Defender that came with my Windows Vista. I do not regularly use it because its a waste of time.
4. yes
5. Like i said, im carefull about what i install.
6. Paswords are strong for stuff that is important, like e-mail and GW account.
7. No not really.
8. Besides teaching them to use Firefox, nothing much. Cant be bothered to waste my time. I learned everything i know on my own, cant see why other people cant do that.

and
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malice Black
Hacking home PC's just doesn't happen. Most viruses/trojans gain access due to owner/user being a dumb ass.
is so true.

Painbringer

Painbringer

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2006

Minnesota

Black Widows of Death

W/Mo

If norton internet security doesn't cover it I am screwed. And I usually update it daily

Inde

Site Contributor

Join Date: Dec 2004

Guess what... we still don't allow you to mention ad blockers on this site

Second off, I am honestly not trying to derail this thread but I have MORE problems with firefox then any other browser. From randomly not being able to copy and paste, it randomly shutting down on me, freezing, etc. Am I the only one who is starting to despise Firefox?

Good suggestions all of them Fril. As for this one:

Quote:
7) Do you regularly back-up your sensible data?
I had my hard drive die on me 2 months ago and it's been painful since I had not done a back up for a month before that. BACK UP YOUR DATA.

Fril Estelin

Fril Estelin

So Serious...

Join Date: Jan 2007

London

Nerfs Are [WHAK]

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malice Black
CCleaner - Check
I forgot about that one (in this thread but not in a different security guide I wrote), and I'll add it just in case, though I think it's not a critical element, albeit a very practical little tool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylananimus
Cautionary tale follows....

snip

Moral? Put everything you possibly can on your computer to keep it safe...and DO NOT forget to scan every day. Yes, every day. Especially if you use IE.
Very nice of you to mention it, there is actually a very well-know fact that any computer with the default XP install would be infected in 15 minutes max (stat from a year ago). I guess Ctb's example of uninfecetd comp was either the luckiest in the world, had no program on it or was behind a security wall .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ctb
And, I know there are some DNS purists who get all pissy about doing it (and they're wrong since the HOSTS file is the original "DNS"), but I really like to use those big hosts files full of known baddies on machines I don't directly maintain. That and Privoxy keeps people out of a lot of craptastic sites, and nobody is going to come and complain to you that they couldn't get into some Russian site they found in Google after they searched for... uh.. yea...
Thanks for your contributions Ctb, but I'd advise you IMHO to change the level of technicality so as to ensure maximum impact. I would like the geek language and the nitty-gritty details out of this thread, as far as humanly possible. Privoxy seems like a very useful tool!

Quote:
I don't condone normal users having things like Spybot and Ad-Aware, or tools that supposedly keep registries clean. There are false positives in those sorts of things and their logs need to be scrutinized by someone who knows what they're doing to ensure that benign programs aren't damaged.
Generally true (it's about the question 5 and trusting applications), but I can mention at least one exception: CCleaner, very nice, reliable little tool, quite conservative in its cleaning policy.

Quote:
I would also recommend, however, turning off caching, saved passwords, saved form fields, etc. in your browser. I have Firefox set up at home so that, basically, every time I close the browser it wipes out all saved information - browsing history, address bar history, saved form fields, passwords, cookies - all gone. Having to always log in to everything all over again every time you close your browser isn't really as terribly annoying as you might think.
I wouldn't say this, you're on "very high privacy settings here" and most people will not go that far. People use single-sign-on cookies for convenience and even me whoe has no problem typing would be annoyed retyping things (or more exactly clicking the password from PasswordSafe) all the time (because I close Firefox often). Using CCleaner weekly seems like a more reasonable trade-off, unless your computer is full of sensitive data or essential to your job.

Quote:
People need to remember also that they're not defending state secrets on Pentagon computers here. You're going to keep out most, if not all, automated attacks just with Windows firewall and an up-to-date AV tool, and the manual attackers that are capable of breaking through your firewall and A/V probably aren't motivated enough by your collection of baby pictures to waste their time doing it.
You're stepping over the line of deciding policies for people. You have no idea what they've got on their computer. Credit card details are no secret data in the governmental sense, but they have exactly the same level of secrecy from the point of view of a normal user. We're talking about a community of online gamers here, and this community is under fire. Notice that already someone mentioned switching off AV/FW when playing? Look at this too:
http://eu.plaync.com/eu/about/pressr...sana_security/

As I said before, there's no "common sense" out of the blue, you need to make people understand what you mean by that. I know a lot of "geeks" (in a non-insulting sense, I consider myself one) have a lot ot share, but they usually can't be understood because of their lack of pedagogy and their obtuse language.

Re Firewalls, I agree with you that the normal user should stick with XP's one, unless he: a) has things to protect; b) has already been under attack. Then an outgoing firewall is advised (I used Kerio a long time ago, but it was too resource-consuming).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malice Black
Hacking home PC's just doesn't happen. Most viruses/trojans gain access due to owner/user being a dumb ass.
Wrong (we're going here one step deeper into the underground). All professional hackers hack "normal users'" PC for the sake of creating a botnet, a network of PCs that they control and can use to launch Denial-of-Service attacks (asking all the PCs in their botnet to connect to the same website at the same time with the goal of either slowing/crashing the server, or preventing anyone else to connect to it). At the same time, they scan all sorts of documents (including word and pdf) for Credit card and bank accounts details. I even read about some corporate data being stolen and sold to competing companies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Sonata-
Another great secure browser is Avant browser that runs on the IE platform.
Good advice, as IE is still needed for a few sites, even for Firefox users. And I don't personally like mono-culture, even for Linux and Firefox.

Quote:
Picking up another security tip though, especially for gaming to keep on topic with the forum; While it may seem like common sense to many of us, the truth is this happens a lot more than realized. Don't share your accounts and the information with anyone. Treat your information as though it's your most prized posession. Don't share it with your best buddy, your Brothers, your sisters, your parents, your penpal in Siberia....Just keep it to yourself at all costs. No matter how complex your passwords are, if you blabber it to a "buddy" you might as well just make your passwords the same as your login.
Indeed, it's the "social engineering" aspect of security, that I wanted to address later (but now is as good a time as ever). One example of why this is bad is the case where a hacker contacts a member of your family pretending to be a close friend and revealing a few information they gathered on you (or not) to "force" them to reveal your password.

Quote:
Again, I know it sounds obvious, but it does happen more than some realize. It's pretty scary how "friends" just exchange passwords and logins for games.
I think that in GW that also happens: a) for people using RMT, when the bad guys find excuses to ask the naive gold-buyer to reveal his password; b) people selling in-game services (powerlevel ling); c) friends of a friend.

enxa

enxa

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Novi Sad, Serbia

Rt/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inde

Second off, I am honestly not trying to derail this thread but I have MORE problems with firefox then any other browser. From randomly not being able to copy and paste, it randomly shutting down on me, freezing, etc. Am I the only one who is starting to despise Firefox?
I use it since version 0.8 and never had any problem of such nature. Only when i was testing nightly builds.
I also use AutoCopy and copy/pasting is still not broken for me.

rick1027

rick1027

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

W/R

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inde
Guess what... we still don't allow you to mention ad blockers on this site

Second off, I am honestly not trying to derail this thread but I have MORE problems with firefox then any other browser. From randomly not being able to copy and paste, it randomly shutting down on me, freezing, etc. Am I the only one who is starting to despise Firefox?
i've been using firefox even before it was called firefox had so such problem

Fril Estelin

Fril Estelin

So Serious...

Join Date: Jan 2007

London

Nerfs Are [WHAK]

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylananimus
Hmm, don't know if you could call me a dumbass for following a link to a game, that was installed on my computer by HP. It was amongst a whole host of games designed to eventually persuade the user to make an account with HP Games. Obviously, I trusted HP...and was burned for it.

All in all you just can't be too careful, and I think (name calling aside) we all need to remember that.

Thank you for the pretty name though
You actually did the right thing, no doubt about it. You shall not be asked to change your behaviour because the problem does not lie in you. It's HP's business (I can tell you they are "trustworthy" because I'm working with them but this does not mean that you can blindly follow whatever they show you, assess the situation before acting).

Quote:
Originally Posted by enxa
Over the years ive learned which sites to be cautious with, which stuff not to install, which e-mail messages not to open. I did use to be paranoic and have antivirus and firewall software, and several antispyware apps and did regular checks, but they are no longer needed.

snip

8. Besides teaching them to use Firefox, nothing much. Cant be bothered to waste my time. I learned everything i know on my own, cant see why other people cant do that.
I've seen this behaviour a lot of times, from people who self-taught computer.

Quote:
is so true.
No it is not, not at all, read my reply to Malice above. You can believe internet users (who are entitled to their opinion of course!) or more professional" people. There are some very stupid users (a BBC poll revealed that a majority of people would be ready to give away their password for chocolate ... how stupid is that?) but that does not mean that the problem is always "stupidity". Computer applications and developpers are not doing a good job either (see Dylananimus example above).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Painbringer
If norton internet security doesn't cover it I am screwed. And I usually update it daily
A lot of people in the security field say that Norton is far away from being good. You may be much safer with one of the free AVs: Antivir, avast!, AVG. Or invest a little bit of money into NOD32 or Kaspersky.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inde
Guess what... we still don't allow you to mention ad blockers on this site
And I haven't! If necessary, I'll open a new thread about financial data on running a server such as GWG, people don't realise how much it costs (and I'm not even talking about the staff like you, who work for free! well-deserved kudos to you!) and believe it's like "Linux" or "Firefox" or any other computing program, basically free.

Quote:
Second off, I am honestly not trying to derail this thread but I have MORE problems with firefox then any other browser. From randomly not being able to copy and paste, it randomly shutting down on me, freezing, etc. Am I the only one who is starting to despise Firefox?
I know you're not (just delete the post from anyone who would say otherwise ). I also had a few problems and crashes with Firefox a little while ago and I solved the issue by totally desintalling it (i.e. first desintall all plugins, then desintall via "Add or Remove software", then delete the Mozilla folders in "Program Files" and "Documents and Settings"). Hope this helps you. Are you using Linux or Windows?

Quote:
I had my hard drive die on me 2 months ago and it's been painful since I had not done a back up for a month before that. BACK UP YOUR DATA.
There are more and more free web-backup services out there, I don't know of a good one but it's a good idea. And nowadays, everyone can burn 4 to 17Go of data on a DVD in a few minutes (I do it every 2 or 3 months with the GW.dat file to avoid having to redownload everything with -install). If you start doing it, make sure you put "dates" and organise your backups. Loosing your hard disk can be even worse than having a virus, because recovery can be impossible (though I can tell you that it's always possible as I've seen the problem when a previous department where I was working in was destroyed by a huge fire and they called on a company that worked with NASA that receovered 90% of data ... unbelievable).

Fril Estelin

Fril Estelin

So Serious...

Join Date: Jan 2007

London

Nerfs Are [WHAK]

E/

Added as new question 7:

7) Do you regularly clean your browser and application data (such as caches, saved passwords)? (weekly)
Look at the very usefull tool CCleaner for this job.


More: does every one know the command "Clean Private Data..." in the Help menu of Firefox? You can use it every time you close Firefox by going into the Options, then Privacy and at the bottom in the "Private Data" category you'll find the "Always clear my private data when I close Firefox" (which can be tweaked with the button next to the option).

I personally deactivate the password features in the "Security" tab of the options and make sure that all the update options are checked in the "Advanced" tab.