I remember just a month ago when you were laughed at if you brought anything other than a WoH bar into a PUG group. Now it seems it's like that with HB. Why is this? Was there a Nerf to WoH/Buff to HB?
Thanks.
Has HB Become The New WoH?
whufc89
Covah
HB monk = ursan. ursan = pve atm.
Esoteric Mesmer
The previous post put it perfectly, with the rise of Ursan came the rise of HB. I don't think either one was buffed/nerfed, just the wide spread usage of Ursan made the duty of the monk into one that focuses on party wide heals. Hence the staples of all HB monks being Glyph of Lesser Energy and Heal party.
Dr Strangelove
Ursans don't need prot, so there's no point in running a hybrid monk.
N1ghtstalker
HB gives the possibility for fast healing in large amounts
ursans have large amounts of hp so large healing is needed
[healer's boon] + [orison of healing] = big heal
it heals good and fast and can be done repeatable
i saw WoH being rolled in one place in an ursan pug and that was at Mallyx's Ebony citadel cuz of the use of enchants isn't allowed
ursans have large amounts of hp so large healing is needed
[healer's boon] + [orison of healing] = big heal
it heals good and fast and can be done repeatable
i saw WoH being rolled in one place in an ursan pug and that was at Mallyx's Ebony citadel cuz of the use of enchants isn't allowed
RiKio
UB consist of buttonmashing.
HB allows you to buttonmash your Monk keyboard with good results
HB = Ursan Monk
Nuff said.
HB allows you to buttonmash your Monk keyboard with good results
HB = Ursan Monk
Nuff said.
whufc89
Nice, thanks a lot for explaining that, much appreciated 
Madeentje
[PvE HB Monk Ursan;OwYT043AZajwBUiIH8jAZIuSmAA]
This is what I use, you should at least have r7 SS.
This is what I use, you should at least have r7 SS.
AOTT
mmmyep. HB = pwnage in a box. [build box][Healer's Boon][/build]
Tyla
WoH is better on Hybrid bars, and Prot isn't really needed in Ursanway.
Racthoh
To expand on the Ursan thought:
Prot spirit kinda loses effectiveness when your Ursans have 900 health.
Healing Seed is amazing when half the party is balled all the time.
You don't need condition removal.
You don't need as much hex removal, if any.
Consumables make you immune to critical hits, -5 damage reduction, +25 AL overall with the Ursan bonus.
So... yeah, push the bars up.
Prot spirit kinda loses effectiveness when your Ursans have 900 health.
Healing Seed is amazing when half the party is balled all the time.
You don't need condition removal.
You don't need as much hex removal, if any.
Consumables make you immune to critical hits, -5 damage reduction, +25 AL overall with the Ursan bonus.
So... yeah, push the bars up.
Chthon
Hey now, some of us were using HBoon in PvE to great effect long before ursan came on the scene.
Anywho, HBoon buffs up healing so that every spot heal is near-WoH-quality and heal party is near-old-LoD-quality. If all you want is to make red bars go up, there's no better choice. The downside is that it both consumes a skillslot and encourages the allocation of heal skills off the other monk and onto you, which can make it hard to hybridize a HBoon build.
Anywho, HBoon buffs up healing so that every spot heal is near-WoH-quality and heal party is near-old-LoD-quality. If all you want is to make red bars go up, there's no better choice. The downside is that it both consumes a skillslot and encourages the allocation of heal skills off the other monk and onto you, which can make it hard to hybridize a HBoon build.
Coloneh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
Hey now, some of us were using HBoon in PvE to great effect long before ursan came on the scene.
lier. hybrids were kicking your ass
AOTT
Actually as soon as NF came out and I capped HB, I started using HB as my elite. It's pretty awesome, even though originally it was -1 regen and only affected the next X spells...
Now it's just craaazy good.
Now it's just craaazy good.
Age
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
WoH is better on Hybrid bars, and Prot isn't really needed in Ursanway.
That is what I was going to say WoH is more Hybrid protect bars and in Healer Boons most are doing not just ursan but HM as well.I much prefer are Healers Boon not to get confused Healing Breeze.
To dimitjeeuuhhThat is a nice bar btw.
To dimitjeeuuhhThat is a nice bar btw.
DarkFlame
Bring [Arcane Mimicry] to copy the other monk's [Healer's Boon] and you can bring whatever you want.
RavagerOfDreams
^
what he said
what he said
Bront
Quote:
Originally Posted by dimitjeeuuhh
[PvE HB Monk Ursan;OwYT043AZajwBUiIH8jAZIuSmAA]
This is what I use, you should at least have r7 SS. Wouldn't Divine Spirit be more useful that GoLE on that bar?
[Divine Spirit]... let's see, 12 seconds of half-casting time heals that cost 5 energy each = Win! Add an enchanter's healing staff for even better results.
Then you could go RT for Death Pact signet, or use Restore Life (which is quite functional at Healing Prayers 12+)
This is what I use, you should at least have r7 SS. Wouldn't Divine Spirit be more useful that GoLE on that bar?
[Divine Spirit]... let's see, 12 seconds of half-casting time heals that cost 5 energy each = Win! Add an enchanter's healing staff for even better results.
Then you could go RT for Death Pact signet, or use Restore Life (which is quite functional at Healing Prayers 12+)
Div
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racthoh
To expand on the Ursan thought:
Prot spirit kinda loses effectiveness when your Ursans have 900 health.
Healing Seed is amazing when half the party is balled all the time.
You don't need condition removal.
You don't need as much hex removal, if any.
Consumables make you immune to critical hits, -5 damage reduction, +25 AL overall with the Ursan bonus.
So... yeah, push the bars up. Damn you invading my turf!!!
At least I don't have to type it up now
And yeah, it's much easier to redbar than to prot effectively. Fits the stereotypical idiot ursan group.
Prot spirit kinda loses effectiveness when your Ursans have 900 health.
Healing Seed is amazing when half the party is balled all the time.
You don't need condition removal.
You don't need as much hex removal, if any.
Consumables make you immune to critical hits, -5 damage reduction, +25 AL overall with the Ursan bonus.
So... yeah, push the bars up. Damn you invading my turf!!!
At least I don't have to type it up now
And yeah, it's much easier to redbar than to prot effectively. Fits the stereotypical idiot ursan group.
AOTT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bront
Wouldn't Divine Spirit be more useful that GoLE on that bar?
[Divine Spirit]... let's see, 12 seconds of half-casting time heals that cost 5 energy each = Win! Add an enchanter's healing staff for even better results.
Then you could go RT for Death Pact signet, or use Restore Life (which is quite functional at Healing Prayers 12+) I use Divine Spirit on my heroes and I use it when I'm doing Spell Breaker or LoD.
But when I do those, I STILL use mimicry to take the HB. from another monk.
When I'm HB'ing myself, I always bring the GolE. I haven't really taken the time to effectively compare and contrast the two.
However, the GolE has the advantage of NOT being an enchantment and can be used when fighting Mallyx.
[Divine Spirit]... let's see, 12 seconds of half-casting time heals that cost 5 energy each = Win! Add an enchanter's healing staff for even better results.
Then you could go RT for Death Pact signet, or use Restore Life (which is quite functional at Healing Prayers 12+) I use Divine Spirit on my heroes and I use it when I'm doing Spell Breaker or LoD.
But when I do those, I STILL use mimicry to take the HB. from another monk.
When I'm HB'ing myself, I always bring the GolE. I haven't really taken the time to effectively compare and contrast the two.
However, the GolE has the advantage of NOT being an enchantment and can be used when fighting Mallyx.
Bront
Quote:
Originally Posted by AOTT
However, the GolE has the advantage of NOT being an enchantment and can be used when fighting Mallyx.
Yeah, but Healer's boon is an enchantment too...
Kwan Xi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bront
Wouldn't Divine Spirit be more useful that GoLE on that bar?
[Divine Spirit]... let's see, 12 seconds of half-casting time heals that cost 5 energy each = Win! Add an enchanter's healing staff for even better results.
Then you could go RT for Death Pact signet, or use Restore Life (which is quite functional at Healing Prayers 12+) GoLE 30sec recharge > Divine Spirit 60sec recharge.
[Divine Spirit]... let's see, 12 seconds of half-casting time heals that cost 5 energy each = Win! Add an enchanter's healing staff for even better results.
Then you could go RT for Death Pact signet, or use Restore Life (which is quite functional at Healing Prayers 12+) GoLE 30sec recharge > Divine Spirit 60sec recharge.
Bront
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwan Xi
GoLE 30sec recharge > Divine Spirit 60sec recharge.
True, but it doesn't nessesarily matter.
As far as pure energy savings...
2 spells save 10 for the cost of 5 from GolE, so 1 use saves you up to 20, but at least 10, at a cost of 5, 2 uses save you 10-30 over 60 seconds
DS, over 12 seconds (14 with an enchanters staff), you can cast 7-8 healing spells under HB, which saves you a minimum of 4 (for 5 casting cost spells), and at most 5 per, at a cost of 10. So, DS saves you 18-30 energy over 60 seconds.
DS also has a faster casting time, and lets you take another secondary. So you cast it while you're under 20 energy, and can spam healing for 12+ seconds. They are pretty close in usefullness though, so it's probably more a matter of preference. A Hero would use DS better more likely though, since they're good at spamming skills.
Of course, [Selfless Spirit] is even better, as long as you don't cast on yourself. Cost of 5, 5 for 10-18 seconds (+2-3 if you use an enchanter staff), gives you similar savings to DS at the low end (About 20-25), and much better savings at the higher end (with an enchanting staff, around 45-60).
As far as pure energy savings...
2 spells save 10 for the cost of 5 from GolE, so 1 use saves you up to 20, but at least 10, at a cost of 5, 2 uses save you 10-30 over 60 seconds
DS, over 12 seconds (14 with an enchanters staff), you can cast 7-8 healing spells under HB, which saves you a minimum of 4 (for 5 casting cost spells), and at most 5 per, at a cost of 10. So, DS saves you 18-30 energy over 60 seconds.
DS also has a faster casting time, and lets you take another secondary. So you cast it while you're under 20 energy, and can spam healing for 12+ seconds. They are pretty close in usefullness though, so it's probably more a matter of preference. A Hero would use DS better more likely though, since they're good at spamming skills.
Of course, [Selfless Spirit] is even better, as long as you don't cast on yourself. Cost of 5, 5 for 10-18 seconds (+2-3 if you use an enchanter staff), gives you similar savings to DS at the low end (About 20-25), and much better savings at the higher end (with an enchanting staff, around 45-60).
Kwan Xi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bront
Wouldn't Divine Spirit be more useful that GoLE on that bar?
Hey you asked the question...
Divine Spirit isn't a bad choice but it would kinda suck when your out of energy and your Divine Spirit is still recharging.
If your managing your energy well you should only need GoLE to get off a couple of those 10 energy spells with no real problem.
Divine Spirit isn't a bad choice but it would kinda suck when your out of energy and your Divine Spirit is still recharging.
If your managing your energy well you should only need GoLE to get off a couple of those 10 energy spells with no real problem.
Tab
HB is about pumping out Heal Partys. GoLE lets you get one off without having to take a big chunk out of your high set.
AOTT
Actually, LoD is all about that, but close enough.
Anyway, when fighting mallyx, you don't use your HB. You let the enchantment expire, then you just use your spike heals. No seeds. If you use an enchantment near mallyx, HE WILL EAT YOU. So GolE is the skill of choice in that situation.
Anyway, when fighting mallyx, you don't use your HB. You let the enchantment expire, then you just use your spike heals. No seeds. If you use an enchantment near mallyx, HE WILL EAT YOU. So GolE is the skill of choice in that situation.
Tab
I'm pretty sure LoD isn't about pumping out Heal Partys.
AOTT
LoD IS heal party.
Tab
No. LoD definately isn't heal party, it's a party heal.
Just because LoD is one (no longer good) party heal doesn't change the fact that the main reason to run HB if you aren't terribad is the super powered party heal.
Just because LoD is one (no longer good) party heal doesn't change the fact that the main reason to run HB if you aren't terribad is the super powered party heal.
AOTT
I don't know what LoD build you're running, but I use Arcane Mimicry to steal HB from another monk so I can churn out superpowered LoD's.
Tab
Oh, you fall under the terribad category then.
Tyla
So you kinda wasted 15 energy and 2 seconds to get a 10 second recharge elite party heal superbuffed by HB, and stopped chances of using GoLE?
The true power of the party heal is also because of the recharge of Heal Party.
Along with GoLE, you can squeeze out more and more Heal Parties.
The true power of the party heal is also because of the recharge of Heal Party.
Along with GoLE, you can squeeze out more and more Heal Parties.
AOTT
Great rebuttal.
But if you wanna get nitpicky about it, I guess you could mention the point that no one USES LoD anymore. It's all HB now.
My point on the HB is that you shouldn't just be throwing out Heal Party. That is poor energy management. You gotta use the GolE first. Which essentially means 2 Heal Party's every 30 seconds, which isn't exactly spamming.
The BIG point on HB is the seeds. Keep the seeds out and you shouldn't HAVE to spam HP.
But if you wanna get nitpicky about it, I guess you could mention the point that no one USES LoD anymore. It's all HB now.
My point on the HB is that you shouldn't just be throwing out Heal Party. That is poor energy management. You gotta use the GolE first. Which essentially means 2 Heal Party's every 30 seconds, which isn't exactly spamming.
The BIG point on HB is the seeds. Keep the seeds out and you shouldn't HAVE to spam HP.
Tyla
You can run Seed (Both of them) on any old healing Monk last time I checked.
And besides, the point of Healers' Boon being for Heal Party still stands.
Use it when needed, and use your single target heals when needed, you don't have to hit HP on recharge you know.
Using skills when needed isn't spam, it's conveniality.
And besides, the point of Healers' Boon being for Heal Party still stands.
Use it when needed, and use your single target heals when needed, you don't have to hit HP on recharge you know.
Using skills when needed isn't spam, it's conveniality.
Tab
Wrong. Even without Glyph, Heal Party is giving you better health:energy efficiency than pretty much any other skill in the game.
Not to mention Seed being a terrible skill for 99.9% of the game.
Not to mention Seed being a terrible skill for 99.9% of the game.
Tyla
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tab
Not to mention Seed being a terrible skill for 99.9% of the game.
/Agree, unless you're running something ugly like TanknSpank.
And TanknSpank = bad anyway.
And TanknSpank = bad anyway.
Eru Valenehtar
I presently am playing HB in any group that's not going to be in Prophecies. Damages is dealt all over the place in Faction/NF/EotN PvE, so the cheap Heal party that heals everyone for 117 is nuts. I was previously a WoH player, but I like this build soooo much better do to being easy and effective.
Coloneh
why is this a discussion? all healing builds do almost exactly the same thing. bring HB and 7 random healing prayers skills. then go out with an ursan group and smash your face on the keyboard. no one will be able to tell the difference.
flettir
Quote:
protection does close to nothing for an ursan team, since about 5 of your party members are taking damage at a time. Instead, you need a quick-casting, highly effective Heal Party, and high-healing skills that you toss about.
For any team other than ursanway, I still prefer my WoH hybrid, it's just that much more efficient. And since i rarely PUG things, I guess that works pretty well.
Age
Quote:
Originally Posted by AOTT
Actually, LoD is all about that, but close enough.
Anyway, when fighting mallyx, you don't use your HB. You let the enchantment expire, then you just use your spike heals. No seeds. If you use an enchantment near mallyx, HE WILL EAT YOU. So GolE is the skill of choice in that situation. I thought you were suppose to bring Spell Breaker with when fighting him.Then he won't eat you but LoD could be some what usefull even in HM.
Anyway, when fighting mallyx, you don't use your HB. You let the enchantment expire, then you just use your spike heals. No seeds. If you use an enchantment near mallyx, HE WILL EAT YOU. So GolE is the skill of choice in that situation. I thought you were suppose to bring Spell Breaker with when fighting him.Then he won't eat you but LoD could be some what usefull even in HM.