Ok, so I dunno if Anet introduced some hidden recharge deal with Arcane Echo, but I recently came back to GW after a long hiatus and just checking on some of my farming builds.
It seems that the Arcane Echo'd Shadow Form's time as SF is variable. I've checked this over and over again in watching the Deadly Paradox'd Shadow Form recharge. Sometimes it will pop back to Arcane Echo when the recharge is halfway done, sometimes not until almost 3/4s done.
I don't have any HCT/HSR gear, just a 20% enchant lengthening mod and Deadly Paradox, which shouldn't lengthen the time that Arcane Echo stays Shadow Form, or does it? The reason I'm not sure is because the disparity on AE reverting seems to be random, sometimes I can keep the chain going five or six times, sometimes only two, following the same method each time.
Very weird.
Perma Shadow Form still viable?
Kaleban
Konig Des Todes
I'm not sure what your asking about Arcane Echo. But my guess is that the time of Arcane Echo staying as Shadow Form seems to be non-consistant for you.
As far as I know, there has been no changes with Arcane Echo. What I think the problem is for you is that your relating it to the recharge only. Arcane Echo will stay as another spell for 20 seconds, not 3/4 of a skill's recharge. I think that is where you are getting confused.
Without Deadly Paradox then Arcane Echo will stay as Shadow Form for 1/3 of Shadow Form's recharge *without any HSR mods*. With Deadly Paradox and no HSR mod I believe it lasts for 2/3 of SF's recharge.
In short, it is still viable, just much harder to maintain and impossible to maintain without Deadly Paradox, a HSR mod and +20% enchant mod. without one, you can probably get as much as you've got done with the chain, not very much any longer. The time that AE stays as SF is always the same, it just feels different because of the change in the recharge of the original SF.
I believe the problem with your chain, other then the lack of a HSR mod, is that your not using Deadly Paradox every time you use SF *not AE's SF*. If your not, then that explains why its a "variable" to you.
As far as I know, there has been no changes with Arcane Echo. What I think the problem is for you is that your relating it to the recharge only. Arcane Echo will stay as another spell for 20 seconds, not 3/4 of a skill's recharge. I think that is where you are getting confused.
Without Deadly Paradox then Arcane Echo will stay as Shadow Form for 1/3 of Shadow Form's recharge *without any HSR mods*. With Deadly Paradox and no HSR mod I believe it lasts for 2/3 of SF's recharge.
In short, it is still viable, just much harder to maintain and impossible to maintain without Deadly Paradox, a HSR mod and +20% enchant mod. without one, you can probably get as much as you've got done with the chain, not very much any longer. The time that AE stays as SF is always the same, it just feels different because of the change in the recharge of the original SF.
I believe the problem with your chain, other then the lack of a HSR mod, is that your not using Deadly Paradox every time you use SF *not AE's SF*. If your not, then that explains why its a "variable" to you.
lordheinous
I just started using perma sf last week, and its working perfectly fine for me, at least after I got the timing down. I'm using it to farm chaos plains and bone pits and, as my runs last longer than an hour, I can keep it going for over an hour (only time I let it down is in the mountains), so I'd say the problem is with you, not with the skills.
Kaleban
Ok, maybe I can explain, here's how it looks:
[skill]Deadly Paradox[/skill][skill]Arcane Echo[/skill][skill]Shadow Form[/skill]
Assume they're in position 1,2,3.
So I just hit 1,2,3, noting that DP is still up when SF is done casting. Now, once the recharge on #3 just passes the little number 3 in the icon, I hit #2, the AE'd SF. Just after, #2 reverts to AE, no problems.
As the AE'd SF is running out, I'm able to hit 1,2,3 again keeping up SF with no loss in health.
The problem is, at random amounts of sequences, whether two or six or ten, #2 doesn't revert to AE right after casting it as it should, using the same method over and over. Instead, #2 stays as SF for a few to several seconds, before reverting to AE, which then starts its recharge. The problem with this extended #2 not reverting as it should messes up the sequence such that I can't 1,2,3 before the #2 SF runs out.
Its not a huge problem, I prefer SF/Sliver farming anyways, but I'm just curious why the discrepancy. I've gone over all my gear, and can't find a reason as to why Arcane Echo is taking longer to revert than normal. I thought perhaps Deadly Paradox was messing me up, since obviously the recharge on #3 SF would be less than 60 seconds, but I can sometimes keep the sequence up six or seven times, others only twice before the odd lengthened reversion of Arcane Echo.
[skill]Deadly Paradox[/skill][skill]Arcane Echo[/skill][skill]Shadow Form[/skill]
Assume they're in position 1,2,3.
So I just hit 1,2,3, noting that DP is still up when SF is done casting. Now, once the recharge on #3 just passes the little number 3 in the icon, I hit #2, the AE'd SF. Just after, #2 reverts to AE, no problems.
As the AE'd SF is running out, I'm able to hit 1,2,3 again keeping up SF with no loss in health.
The problem is, at random amounts of sequences, whether two or six or ten, #2 doesn't revert to AE right after casting it as it should, using the same method over and over. Instead, #2 stays as SF for a few to several seconds, before reverting to AE, which then starts its recharge. The problem with this extended #2 not reverting as it should messes up the sequence such that I can't 1,2,3 before the #2 SF runs out.
Its not a huge problem, I prefer SF/Sliver farming anyways, but I'm just curious why the discrepancy. I've gone over all my gear, and can't find a reason as to why Arcane Echo is taking longer to revert than normal. I thought perhaps Deadly Paradox was messing me up, since obviously the recharge on #3 SF would be less than 60 seconds, but I can sometimes keep the sequence up six or seven times, others only twice before the odd lengthened reversion of Arcane Echo.
lordheinous
Again, the variance in timing that you describe has never happened for me; the only reason I can think of is that perhaps you have bag lag and it merely appears that its taking longer to revert (bad lag=insta-fail for perma sf). Otherwise, I don't see why a skill combo that works perfectly fine for others would work differently for you, unless its a conspiracy and anet's out to get you lol.
Kaleban
Pretty soon the black helicopters will be coming for me hehe. I'll just keep trying I guess.
ragnagard
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaleban
Pretty soon the black helicopters will be coming for me hehe. I'll just keep trying I guess.
Nope.
I have experienced the same "unexplainable" thing you got too.
Using my A/Me with Arcane Echo + ShadowForm with and without Deadly paradox and it happens to me randomly.
Tried in in Sunqua Valley in NM (to be safe) and sometimes AE still looks like a recharging Shadow form skill instead auto-insta-change into a Arcane echo rechargin skill. I think that's what you wanna say.
Some time has passed since that and i cannot tell you if an update changed it.
(Order more black helicopters please :P)
I have experienced the same "unexplainable" thing you got too.
Using my A/Me with Arcane Echo + ShadowForm with and without Deadly paradox and it happens to me randomly.
Tried in in Sunqua Valley in NM (to be safe) and sometimes AE still looks like a recharging Shadow form skill instead auto-insta-change into a Arcane echo rechargin skill. I think that's what you wanna say.
Some time has passed since that and i cannot tell you if an update changed it.
(Order more black helicopters please :P)
Sight of Eagles
With the (minor) nerf to Deadly Paradox, you must now activate the echoed Shadow Form just before it hits exactly half way. If the echoed Shadow Form only turns back into the recharging Arcane Echo at the bottom left corner of the icon, and not at the half way mark, you must have some form of a HSR item, or Anet started implementing bugs to improve player experience, but, knowing Anet, that's highly unlikely ^^,
Captain Bulldozer
I've experienced the same randomness while using arcane echo + shadow form... but as stated above it may just be lag. I haven't been able to keep perma SF goin for more than a minute or so.
What I'm more concerned with is that even though Arcane Echo is an enchantment, the 20 second duration does not seem to be extended by 20% enchantment mods. Is this a known bug?
What I'm more concerned with is that even though Arcane Echo is an enchantment, the 20 second duration does not seem to be extended by 20% enchantment mods. Is this a known bug?
Gredinus
http://youtube.com/watch?v=m091kivP5pk
Kaleban
Yeah I saw that video, in fact my comment is right there and mrbabkabab responded. The problem was the HSR mod from my staff, I switched to a sword and inspiration focus, and have been easily doing the first two quests now, killing all the aatxes and terrorwebs in sight.
Up to 33 ectos over just a couple days. Working on doing the Grenth's monuments, but those damn Nature's Renewal spirits screw up the timing, need to be really careful around them.
Anyways, to answer my own question, this is possible, just make sure not to have any HSR gear, as it messes up the Arcane Echo'd Shadow Form and the entire sequence.
Up to 33 ectos over just a couple days. Working on doing the Grenth's monuments, but those damn Nature's Renewal spirits screw up the timing, need to be really careful around them.
Anyways, to answer my own question, this is possible, just make sure not to have any HSR gear, as it messes up the Arcane Echo'd Shadow Form and the entire sequence.