Hell's Precipice - The structure of a perfect mission
Avarre
I enjoyed Thunderhead Keep. The first time, and every time. Is there something wrong with me?
Squishy ftw
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Originally Posted by Avarre
I enjoyed Thunderhead Keep. The first time, and every time. Is there something wrong with me?
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It happens quite often that I'm bored and end up pugging thk with my monk. There's something about keeping non-infused people alive that keeps me comming back for more.
tmr819
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Originally Posted by Avarre
I enjoyed Thunderhead Keep. The first time, and every time. Is there something wrong with me?
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I like THK, too, although I wish the pace of it was a bit faster. A siege should feel like a fight-for-your-life siege, rather than foes coming at you in small groups of two and three at a time, with long delays in between. Still, it's a great mission. If they had paced it more like the Vizunah Square mission, with waves of enemies coming at you, it would have been better, I think.
zwei2stein
Considering that THK's siege part can be pretty much AFKed by flagging H/H at king ...
I would love (THK+Dzagonur)/2 mission. Actual heavy siege that does not take place outside damn fortress and which does not consist of more running/waiting than fighting.
I would love (THK+Dzagonur)/2 mission. Actual heavy siege that does not take place outside damn fortress and which does not consist of more running/waiting than fighting.
Lord Natural
It's not a fun mission, it's just annoying. Thus, it is not a perfect mission.
Trvth Jvstice
THK is my fav mission, I usually do it 2-3 times a day. What makes it fun is you run into so many people there that have been in bad pugs and are sick and tired of it and "just want to get to the Ring of Fire Islands to cap some skills!" lol I take a few players through with HH and show them just how easy it is with a good group.
HP was fun since it had been so long since I had played there. You just have to remember the correct order to kill the enemies - Sparks, Fists/Hands, Risen Ash thing, Burning Titans - and proper pulling. I refuse to do that mission with a pug though - "someone HAS to take [[Winter] or we will DIE!" makes me sick....
HP was fun since it had been so long since I had played there. You just have to remember the correct order to kill the enemies - Sparks, Fists/Hands, Risen Ash thing, Burning Titans - and proper pulling. I refuse to do that mission with a pug though - "someone HAS to take [[Winter] or we will DIE!" makes me sick....
Voodoo Rage
As I posted in the other thread, I found a myself and 2 other touch ranger heroes with the usual assortment of henchies absolutely dominated this mission that had been previously frustrating me (cupcakes helped too). The obvious tricks are to pull, not over-aggro, and to take out those pesky sparks as fast as possible.
bobrath
(I know this might derail the thread, but it made me laugh)
The interesting thing for me this past weekend was how many folks were spaming in HP "Max Ursan LFG". When I globaled back that this mission was doable by normal groups and no need for the "power of Ursan", the immediate response I got back was but Ursan is the fun way to do it!
O.o
Playing as a ranger, I've always appreciated those missions that reward good pulling. Its been good training for other dungeons and areas. Seeing a huge mob of red dots and being able to cull out a small set always makes me smile (and my group's monk as well!)
The interesting thing for me this past weekend was how many folks were spaming in HP "Max Ursan LFG". When I globaled back that this mission was doable by normal groups and no need for the "power of Ursan", the immediate response I got back was but Ursan is the fun way to do it!
O.o
Playing as a ranger, I've always appreciated those missions that reward good pulling. Its been good training for other dungeons and areas. Seeing a huge mob of red dots and being able to cull out a small set always makes me smile (and my group's monk as well!)
Spaced Invader
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Originally Posted by Crom The Pale
4) Emotional content, give us a real good reason to HATE that boss at the end. I want to shout "YES, EAT THAT SUCKER!" at the end of a mission, not just yawn and watch the loading screen.
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Back in the old days, I really hated him. Probably for the endless and boring "Ruins of Surmia" aka Rurik's Nanny mission, which I had to play so many times I can't even count (partly because there was not much else to do pre-launch, partly because I used to play so many chars, and partly because I had to help my friends through it).
Not to mention his pathetic speeches and endless "I grew up in this city" blablabla.
Damn, he should have been the final boss of Prophecies.
sterbenx2
hands down, Proph had the best of the best missions. Assemble the crystal, defeat the dopple, escape the Charr (they need a speed buff in that mish) use the crystals to capture the gates. Fix the catapult and wammo the charr. LOL.. yea. All interesting, all of them. Some in factions were cool. Endless waves of enemies was incredibly fun. Proph was like a PvP training ground, but if that what it takes to make missions like that, who cares. More PvP training plz.
Nightfall tho, blah. I can only recall fun with one NF mission. Defend the base from margonites. The waves weren't fast enough though. =( oh well. And EotN. forget it, I wouldn't even suggest people play it. I don't recall anything significantly rememberable about it. Nothing, and I've actually played threw it 3 times.
We need tougher challenges. Make Urgoz and the Deep 8 players plz.
Nightfall tho, blah. I can only recall fun with one NF mission. Defend the base from margonites. The waves weren't fast enough though. =( oh well. And EotN. forget it, I wouldn't even suggest people play it. I don't recall anything significantly rememberable about it. Nothing, and I've actually played threw it 3 times.
We need tougher challenges. Make Urgoz and the Deep 8 players plz.
draugr
Hell's Precipice is a good mission IMO also. Just went through the list:
Love
'Alessio Seaboard, Thirsty River, Dragon's Lair, THK, Ring of Fire, Abaddon's Mouth, Vizunah Sq, Tahnnakai Temple, Kodonur Crossroads, GoM, Abaddon's Gate, Against the Charr, Elusive Golemancer, GOLEM, Blood Washes Blood, Assault on the Stronghold, Destruction's Depths
Hate: Divinity Coast, Bloodstone Fen, Aurora Glade, Nahpui Quarter, Gyala Hatchery, Imperial Sanctum, Venta Cemetery, Tihark Orchard, Grand Ct of Sebelkeh, Gate of Desolation, and Heart of the Shiverpeaks.
Whoever thought "meditation of the reaper" was a good idea for a monster skill is in the wrong line of work. So glad they realized the mistake before GOM came out.
Love
Hate: Divinity Coast, Bloodstone Fen, Aurora Glade, Nahpui Quarter, Gyala Hatchery, Imperial Sanctum, Venta Cemetery, Tihark Orchard, Grand Ct of Sebelkeh, Gate of Desolation, and Heart of the Shiverpeaks.
Whoever thought "meditation of the reaper" was a good idea for a monster skill is in the wrong line of work. So glad they realized the mistake before GOM came out.
beregond
Let's see....I cannot think of a "prefect mission", but many came close.
The best were by far in prophecies. THK, HP, the desert, Riverside Province. Those were all really fun.
Vizunah Suare was good. Probably the only one I really like in Factions.
In nf, nothing relly stands out to me.
The best were by far in prophecies. THK, HP, the desert, Riverside Province. Those were all really fun.
Vizunah Suare was good. Probably the only one I really like in Factions.
In nf, nothing relly stands out to me.
Risus
Gay mission IMO. Lich is gay, and its not a challenge. A real mission is like The Deep or Urgoz's Warren. Not those normal missions. Even on HM they are EASY.
draugr
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Originally Posted by Risus
Lich is gay...
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Fear Me!
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Originally Posted by Vinraith
I pretty much agree with the OP. Any mission that requires several attempts with serious rethinking of builds, team, and tactics in between is a good one.
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MasterSasori
To the "perfect mission" I would add:
1. End boss not as annoying as the Lich. Could definitely be more challenging.
2. Something that 1 hit KO a player using UB, SY!, or Pain Inverter
1. End boss not as annoying as the Lich. Could definitely be more challenging.
2. Something that 1 hit KO a player using UB, SY!, or Pain Inverter
Koross
Agree with the OP on HP but the lich is kinda annoying. The end boss should be something like Glint. Totally powerful but it is doable if everyone kept a level head.
Another one of my favourites was THK before it was nerfed. Used to park my warrior and monk there just to help people through. Well, not help per say but I went with the ride to see how PUGs go through THK. I usually kept quiet. THK usually yielded surprising results for me on PUGs. Of course there was the usual people who didn't know to imbue their armour against the Mursaat but it really surprised me when a good team with a good composition of classes and good communication can fail and yet a team that has the least chances to succeed, succeed. Those kind of out of whack results really brought me back to THK. The latter really gives me a sense of accomplishment since everyone in the team was not coordinating, talking crap to each other and people were on the verge of rage quitting but somehow everyone still stuck together and in the end, managed to pass THK. It is always a pleasant feeling of surprise when that happens. So yeah, THK was like an experimental study for me on PUG composition and how it effects on the chances of mission completion.
Another one of my favourites was THK before it was nerfed. Used to park my warrior and monk there just to help people through. Well, not help per say but I went with the ride to see how PUGs go through THK. I usually kept quiet. THK usually yielded surprising results for me on PUGs. Of course there was the usual people who didn't know to imbue their armour against the Mursaat but it really surprised me when a good team with a good composition of classes and good communication can fail and yet a team that has the least chances to succeed, succeed. Those kind of out of whack results really brought me back to THK. The latter really gives me a sense of accomplishment since everyone in the team was not coordinating, talking crap to each other and people were on the verge of rage quitting but somehow everyone still stuck together and in the end, managed to pass THK. It is always a pleasant feeling of surprise when that happens. So yeah, THK was like an experimental study for me on PUG composition and how it effects on the chances of mission completion.
Hyper Cutter
Any mission that requires you to babysit an NPC is not a good mission, period, even if it's good in other ways.
Escort missions suck, have always sucked, and will continue to suck until somebody comes up with a non-suicidal AI...
Escort missions suck, have always sucked, and will continue to suck until somebody comes up with a non-suicidal AI...
Chthon
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Originally Posted by draugr
You know I always wondered about Khilbron's sexual orientation, guess now we know for certain. Thanks for clearing that up.
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MasterSasori
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Originally Posted by Chthon
What? Was the dress not enough of a tip off?
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For the record, the Lich is gay.
MasterSasori
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Originally Posted by Chthon
What? Was the dress not enough of a tip off?
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For the record, the Lich is gay.
dunky_g
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Originally Posted by MasterSasori
All Paragons have skirts, doesn't mean they're all gay.
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Crom The Pale
Just to bring the thread a little back on track...
When it comes to defned the NPC type missions there are few really good examples of it in GW. One that comes close is The Eternal Grove in Factions.
The NPC's are stationary, not the ideal situation, however they are located in side what amounts to a secure fort. With limited access points its rather easy to defend.
The real downside to this mission is that A) you need at least 2 live players and B) the attackers don't try hard enough to get past you to kill the NPC's, rather they just attack you and die.
If the Luxons or Afflicted were to try and rush one or two past your defences and attack the NPC's this would be a little more challenging. Ofcourse then we would want the NPC's to kite or the NPC monks to heal them.
So we have an overall perfect missin model and a model for a "acceptable?" defend NPC mission.
What would make the perfect Seek-And-Destroy mission? Riverside Province comes to mind. Option A) sneek in and grab the staff then fight to freedom, option B) destroy all in your path! Now the boss at the end is quite the let down but getting there is fun. Imagine though if it was a Glint like boss gaurding the bridge!
When it comes to defned the NPC type missions there are few really good examples of it in GW. One that comes close is The Eternal Grove in Factions.
The NPC's are stationary, not the ideal situation, however they are located in side what amounts to a secure fort. With limited access points its rather easy to defend.
The real downside to this mission is that A) you need at least 2 live players and B) the attackers don't try hard enough to get past you to kill the NPC's, rather they just attack you and die.
If the Luxons or Afflicted were to try and rush one or two past your defences and attack the NPC's this would be a little more challenging. Ofcourse then we would want the NPC's to kite or the NPC monks to heal them.
So we have an overall perfect missin model and a model for a "acceptable?" defend NPC mission.
What would make the perfect Seek-And-Destroy mission? Riverside Province comes to mind. Option A) sneek in and grab the staff then fight to freedom, option B) destroy all in your path! Now the boss at the end is quite the let down but getting there is fun. Imagine though if it was a Glint like boss gaurding the bridge!
Lord Sojar
Hell's = all too amusing with a water ele or 2. Shatterstone > Titans
Shayne Hawke
Just about every elite mission would be a perfect mission if they would tone down the number of monsters just slightly and put the party's maximum at 8. Anything that requires a balanced team to do a balanced job and finally fight an end boss is pretty much a keeper.
VinnyRidira
Come lets consider the wonderful missions in Elona. Dzagonur Bastion, Moddok Crevice, Tihark Orchard and Grand Court of Sebelkeh. Hell's Precipice is not hard, it is just annoying to have to do it hoping that you will get a spawn where the bloody Seer does not get toasted and you can do the bonus.
Fay Vert
Hell's Precipice is dull and boring, a very dissappointing end mission to a great story.
Trvth Jvstice
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Originally Posted by Fay Vert
Hell's Precipice is dull and boring, a very dissappointing end mission to a great story.
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There's a good side and a bad side to always playing with a good guild/friends - for anyone that has gone through the last few Prophesies missions using PUGs, repeating the same mission over and over, only frustratingly wipe out (just like you did the last 10 times! Arrrrrgh!) There is very little in GW as satisfying as when you finally find that rare PUG that knows what it's doing and finally At Last! you beat that horrible mission that you never ever want to play again. I swear, years ago I must have PUG'd THK at least 10 times with my warrior, quit and played my Necro on other missions - finally went back to my warrior a few weeks later and beat THK. Of course this was before I knew about GWG or Guildwiki.
MasterSasori
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Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice
There's a good side and a bad side to always playing with a good guild/friends - for anyone that has gone through the last few Prophesies missions using PUGs, repeating the same mission over and over, only frustratingly wipe out (just like you did the last 10 times! Arrrrrgh!) There is very little in GW as satisfying as when you finally find that rare PUG that knows what it's doing and finally At Last! you beat that horrible mission that you never ever want to play again. I swear, years ago I must have PUG'd THK at least 10 times with my warrior, quit and played my Necro on other missions - finally went back to my warrior a few weeks later and beat THK. Of course this was before I knew about GWG or Guildwiki.
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Now it goes like this -
Typical Wammo: OMGZ MI MENDING AND HEALING HANDZORZ NO WORK! MUST GO URSAN!!
Then the Typical Wammo procedes to steam roll the mission and claims its easy.
I'm not stabbing at UB on purpose, but want to make an example: That if you want to get the most out of it, you need to work at it. The things in life most satisfying are the ones that you work most at.
beregond
I'm a W/Mo, and I never use Ursan.
Shuuda
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Originally Posted by beregond
I'm a W/Mo, and I never use Ursan.
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MasterSasori
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Originally Posted by beregond
I'm a W/Mo, and I never use Ursan.
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Issac
I also found hell's pretty fun, probably just because it the last mission lol. But I really like the portal part, where the monsters spawn form the lava and you have ot lure them ,stuff like that is fun.
Fay Vert
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Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice
That's the problem with this sort of mission, if you are with a good team and have a plan, the mission is almost always boring. I assume the first time you played HP you either, did it with a group that was very familiar with the mission, or you thoroughly researched the mission and knew what to expect and how to prepare a team, or you already had a good hero/hench team and knew enough about general GW strategy and was able to do the mission by playing smart.
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MasterSasori
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Originally Posted by Fay Vert
No, I did it over two years ago before I know about wiki or there were any other chapters. took a couple of tries iirc one with guildies (novices like me) and one with hench, can't recall which was successful. I just found the whole ring of fire tedious. Hell's precipice was a lot easier than Abaddon's Mouth (flipping monk boss). Having done it again this week for the endgame reward I thought this thread was funny. Perfect mission? NOT!
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Fay Vert
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Originally Posted by MasterSasori
The difficulty is part of the reward.
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MasterSasori
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Originally Posted by Fay Vert
What difficulty?
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Crom The Pale
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Originally Posted by Fay Vert
No, I did it over two years ago before I know about wiki or there were any other chapters. took a couple of tries iirc one with guildies (novices like me) and one with hench, can't recall which was successful. I just found the whole ring of fire tedious. Hell's precipice was a lot easier than Abaddon's Mouth (flipping monk boss). Having done it again this week for the endgame reward I thought this thread was funny. Perfect mission? NOT!
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If you find Hell's to be dull and boring then what would you call the perfect mission and why?
Fay Vert
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Originally Posted by MasterSasori
Whatever difficulty your team has after all that UB, Imba, Godmode ect.
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Originally Posted by Crom The Pale
If you find Hell's to be dull and boring then what would you call the perfect mission and why?
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I find Hell's precipice a bit like wading though Jotuns.