Mandragor Synergy.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

Okeh, so [fevered dreams] popped into my head.
I've heard this name in a previous thread, and thought it would be devilish and evil to steal it for myself! ()

It's ran on heavy variables, though. It depends on your character's profession to determine the heroes.

The skillsets are:

[build prof=Me/E name="Mandragor Mes" box Illusion=12+1+1 fastcast=8+1 dom=10+1][Fevered Dreams][hypochondria][fragility][frustration][accumulated pain][cry of frustration][guilt][glyph of lesser energy][/build]

This is the heart of the build. Soothing Images can be put in when you're against high-adrenaline based enemy areas, if you're concerned about not being able to permablind stuff.
You can also run a Necro for Soul Reaping working as energy management, but I personally like Mesmers. (My preference!!)

Edit: Fragility will now be more energy intensive after the revert. It would be extremely smart to choose Necro over Mes in this situation.

With this, your conditions reach max strength on the field, witness the death of legions of enemies!

[build prof=E/N name="Condition Elementalist" box air=12+1+1 est=10+1 cur=8][air attunement][elemental attunement][Maelstrom][enfeebling blood][blinding flash][lightning hammer][lightning orb][resurrection signet][/build]

The aim of this one is to spam LO & LH and the 3 conditions. The build can be set appropriately depending on the situation. (If there's heavy enchant removal ect.)


[build prof=R/Mo name="Spellcasting shutdown" box mar=9+1 exp=12+1+1 wil=9+1 pro=3][broad head arrow][distracting shot][savage shot][volley][screaming shot][mending touch][natural stride][resurrection signet][/build]

The aim here is to use BHA on spellcasters and use Volley for a more AoE-ey feeling of interrupt, and DPS.

It also offers strong conditional removal via Mending Touch and Bleeding via Screaming Shot.

[build prof=W name="Melee" box axe=12+1+1 str=12+1][eviscerate][body blow][executioner's strike][disrupting chop][flail]["for great justice!"][enraging charge][resurrection signet][/build]
The aim here -- Kill stuff.
This one is NOT advisable in the hands of the AI.

You can also switch out Eviscerate and Executioner's for Sever Artery and Gash as a Sword variant, with Disrupting Chop changed to Savage Slash.

If you're running the Ranger, remove Screaming Shot for Sloth Hunter's Shot or Body Shot if going with the Sword. Or even Pin Down if you're worried about enemies thinking "Noes, melee, run awaaaaay!!".

For Hammers, go for Earth Shaker, by switching Evis for Earth Shaker, Executioner's for Crushing Blow and Disrupting Chop for Crude Swing.

[build prof=P name="Cruel Spear" box spe=12+1+1 lea=11+1 com=6+1][cruel spear][spear of lightning][aggressive refrain][anthem of flame]["go for the eyes!"][optional][optional][signet of return][/build]

The aim here -- Kill stuff again!
The optional slots could be filled with things like Cry of Frustration.

If you're the player, you can always go Imbagon (Rac's build for instance) and lose EBSoH for GftE and Swift Javelin for Vicious Attack.

[build prof=N/Rt name="Toxic Corpse" box dea=12+1+1 res=10 sou=8+1][toxic chill][deathly chill][putrid bile][death nova][protective was kaolai][rotting flesh][animate bone minions][death pact signet][/build]
Again, kill things!!
You also have Bone Minions serving as: Bodyblockers and a battery for your own personal use.

[build prof=D/W name="Wounding Strike" box scy=12+1+1 mys=12+1][wounding strike][mystic sweep][eremite's attack][distracting strike][wild blow][heart of holy flame][heart of fury][resurrection signet][/build]

For the last time, kill thing!
You have an elite Severgash on a brokenstrong weapon.
Not advisable on heroes.

HoHF is also switchable, since it's quite bad, I just used it as an enchantment to fuel Wounding Strike.
Aura of Holy Might is a good candidate if you're the player.
(Will ya shut up NOW Blur?!)

------------------------------------------

All of these can be ran as a player, and infact, as a player you can take PvE skills.

And Fevered Dreams is more of a skill you use once and ask a mob if they like conditions, in an extremely wide radius, and that's why I like it more than Epidemic.

I'm not really sure if Fragility and Hypochondria turn the conditions reapplied to the enemy into a nice damage output, though, must get on my Mesmer soon and try it out.

I'm also finishing off on the other professions, if there are any mistakes or whatever please notify me and I'll fix it.
Suggestions welcome.

Please read: If anyone can test Hypochondria + Fragility, with conditions already applied to the enemy and nearby enemies for any source of damage, I would be more than happy, especially if you provide screenshots!

Edit: I've modified some of the builds for more reliability on your conditions and the survivability of the Necro.

Edit 2: Editted the Ele for the revert. Noting down something on the Mesmer.

Sora267

Sora267

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

Great work, Tyla! I'll definitely consider using this. Also, in some cases you won't need the AoE interrupt from Volley. Maybe you could take Apply Poison instead for that extra degen condition, and replace Toxic Chill on the Necro for Virulence?

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

You'll already have Weakness covered, and with the Toxic Chill build I provided, it gives out Poison and Disease aswell.

Antithesis

Antithesis

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

BrisneyLand

Sphincter Says [What]

W/

Looks good for a change of pace Tyla.

I've tooled around with Fevered Dreams + Air Conditioner + BHA / Volley myself...AoE Blind + Dazed wins PvE.

Given we can only take 3 Heroes we're pretty much limited to the E/N and the R/Mo to apply the two most effective PvE conditions in the current setup, which leaves one slot open for a damage dealer.

I use the same Ele bar (got the Enfeebling Blood idea from you, thx) at different atts (less Curse, more Storage) and it's bloody strong for anti-melee. As you pointed out enchant stripping kills the build but it's fun while it's up. I ended up just dumping [[shadowsong] onto a N/Rt Communing/Resto hybrid for team compression and ran Enfeebling Blood and Weaken Armor on a Nec.

You might want to add a Stunning Strike Paragon variant into the mix. [[blazing spear], [[chest thumper] and [[spear swipe] are options for the Cruel Spear bar.

Maybe a [[headbutt] + [[plague touch] variant for the Warrior.

[[ebon dust aura] variant for the Derv. There should be room for Deep Wound on another player / hero if taking EDA.

Like the Nec bar, i'll give that a run. [[foul feast] (gwcode description is wrong), [[contagion], [[plague sending], [[shadow sanctuary], [[plague signet], [[death nova], [[jagged bones] are all alternatives to consider.

If taking Contagion, consider [[extend condition] and [[epidemic] on the Mez. [[ineptitude] could work.

Heroes won't run all of these bars, so as long as you've got condition application and ideally Blind and Dazed somewhere it'll be a fun team to run.

Mr Pink57

Mr Pink57

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2007

a van down by the river

iBench

P/W

Crazy idea but go R/N and take Plauge Sending for even more hate vs Mending Touch.

And Flail isnt a bad idea on the derv in PvE.

pink

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

The reason the Ranger has Mending Touch is because it acts as a condition removal to not only yourself, but to the party if you need it to be used on people in the party.

It's also a free heal if you count 2 energy as free.

I'll note Flail aswell, Pink.

@Antithesis -- The entire thing depends on what you are, really. You CAN always go /Rt on your Ranger for Splinter Volley, but I've always thought of Splinter on your Rangers as a waste of attributes.

And the Headbutt -> Plague Touch combo can get a bit energy hungry, especially when you've got some other conditions flying around occasionally and the Warrior's just wasting all it's energy on PTouch. I suppose you got the Headbutt idea from [apr]'s condiway?

And you can always use Signet of Malice on an EDA Dervish with Wearying Strike.

Antithesis

Antithesis

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

BrisneyLand

Sphincter Says [What]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
And the Headbutt -> Plague Touch combo can get a bit energy hungry, especially when you've got some other conditions flying around occasionally and the Warrior's just wasting all it's energy on PTouch. I suppose you got the Headbutt idea from [apr]'s condiway? HB+PT has been around for awhile, i don't observe GvG (i should). A zealous weapon should offset the energy cost. There are definitely better options for Dazed, maybe [[skull crack].

cellardweller

cellardweller

Likes naked dance offs

Join Date: Aug 2005

The Older Gamers [TOG]

Been running something similar for a while
[build prof=Me/Rt Illusion=12+1+1 Fastcast=9+1 inspiration 9+1][Fevered Dreams][you move like a dwarf][finish him][cry of pain][drain enchantment][inspired hex][ether signet][death pact signet][/build]
[build prof=E/Mo Air=12+1+1 Energy Storage=9+1 protection=9][Elemental Attunement][blinding flash][shell shock][enervating charge][air attunement][glyph of lesser energy][protective spirit][guardian][/build]
[build prof=N/Mo Death=12+3+1 Soul Reaping=12+1 ][Empathic Removal][Rising Bile][Putrid Bile][Animate Bone Minions][putrid explosion][signet of lost souls][death nova][resurrection chant][/build]
[build prof=R/P Expertise=10+1 Marksmanship=10+1+1 Command=10 Wilderness survival=5+1][Broad Head Arrow][savage shot][distracting shot][screaming shot][never surrender][go for the eyes][poison tip signet][resurrection signet][/build]
In my experience, BHA+volley+hero ai=craptactular failure.. the spend the majority of the time at 0 energy autoattacking. I'd much rather keep a MM around and let the minions take care of triggering daze.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antithesis
HB+PT has been around for awhile, i don't observe GvG (i should). A zealous weapon should offset the energy cost. There are definitely better options for Blind. [apr] used Headbutt accompanied by a Foul Feast -> Plague Signet Necro, and I thought you got the idea from that, but unless it's a human player, I wouldn't consider Plague Touch.

@Cellardwellar -- Yeah, that's why I thought Body Shot was a good idea.
And I don't usually run PvE-only skills, so YMLaD and "Finish Him!" is a big nono for me.

Antithesis

Antithesis

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

BrisneyLand

Sphincter Says [What]

W/

Looks good cellardwellar. Have you tried [[foul feast] + [[contagion] / [[plague signet] / [[plague sending] on the MM? Using conditions against the enemy fits with the build.

I use BHA+Volley+Body Shot+Splinter Weapon, energy is fine. Poison Tip Signet seems to slow the BHA build down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
[apr] used Headbutt accompanied by a Foul Feast -> Plague Signet Necro, and I thought you got the idea from that, but unless it's a human player, I wouldn't consider Plague Touch. Yep, i wouldn't give a hero Headbutt either.

Dr Strangelove

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

I actually run mini-sway with a similar setup on my rit's heroes.

[build prof=R/D Expertise=11+2+1 ScytheMastery=12 WildernessSurvival=6+1 ][pious assault][eremite's attack][chilling victory][apply poison][escape][lightning reflexes][throw dirt][resurrection signet][/build]

[build prof=A/D CriticalStrikes=12+1+1 ScytheMastery=12 ][way of the master][critical eye][critical defenses][wounding strike][mystic sweep][aura slicer][signet of malice][resurrection signet][/build]

My third has been changing more lately, though I'm reasonably happy with this:

[build=OAVDEqp3S3ATAfC2B7OVCJgVVA]

No rez, but eh. I've toyed with bringing epidemic on myself, particulary if I need to bring a BHA ranger instead. My own bar (rit) isn't very static, though I always have ancestor's rage, great dwarf weapon or splinter, and a party heal - PwK or Life.

It works reasonably well, though I get owned pretty hard against mass condition removal like cautery sig.

Koricen

Koricen

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2008

[LoA]

Come May 1st the last set of skill changes will be reverted, therefore Lightning Orb will cause Cracked Armor again, so you could switch out Shell Shock for something stronger. Also, if you are using Fevered Dreams you can use Enervating Charge instead of Enfeebling Blood, letting you boost Energy Storage instead of Curses, so Elemental Attunement can stay up longer. Other than that it looks like a damn fun build.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

I don't find Enervating Charge better than Enfeebling Blood for a few reasons:
Enfeebling Blood is automatically applying weakness on a decent range, so if FD isn't up at the time for some odd reason, it still applies.
It is also cheaper, and a much stronger candidate for the skillslot.

Sad but true: Heroes run out of energy running Dual Attune...

(And yeah, I'm more annoyed that the skills are getting reverted, seems quite pointless if you think about it, but my opinion is my opinion.)

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by cellardweller
Been running something similar for a while
[build prof=Me/Rt Illusion=12+1+1 Fastcast=9+1 inspiration 9+1][Fevered Dreams][you move like a dwarf][finish him][cry of pain][drain enchantment][inspired hex][ether signet][death pact signet][/build]
[build prof=E/Mo Air=12+1+1 Energy Storage=9+1 protection=9][Elemental Attunement][blinding flash][shell shock][enervating charge][air attunement][glyph of lesser energy][protective spirit][guardian][/build] If you're going to run the Fevered Dreams on a human player, you can compress the ele and mesmer into 1 build:
[fevered dreams][you move like a dwarf][ash blast][finish him] will kick out all of the really "a-list" conditions except dazed, for which you still need the [broad head arrow] hero/Zho. If you really want weakness even though you've already got a long-ass blind, you can either (1) put enfeebling blood on a curse necro (since curse necros are so good you should probably be using one anyway), or (2) bring along [ebon hawk] or (3) bring along [summon mursaat] with a decent rank and let the mursaat kick out [enervating charge].

([Blinding Flash] is really not viable for permanent blind ATM, but it should be once it gets reverted.)

Antithesis

Antithesis

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

BrisneyLand

Sphincter Says [What]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
If you're going to run the Fevered Dreams on a human player, you can compress the ele and mesmer into 1 build:
[fevered dreams][you move like a dwarf][ash blast][finish him] will kick out all of the really "a-list" conditions except dazed... I like it. I hadn't really considered Ash Blast before. Energy might be tight, Inspiration skills take care of that.

cellardweller

cellardweller

Likes naked dance offs

Join Date: Aug 2005

The Older Gamers [TOG]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
If you're going to run the Fevered Dreams on a human player, you can compress the ele and mesmer into 1 build:
[fevered dreams][you move like a dwarf][ash blast][finish him] will kick out all of the really "a-list" conditions except dazed, for which you still need the [broad head arrow] hero/Zho. Neato *steals build*

Richardt

Richardt

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2007

http://friendsofloa.com/forum

Leader-Legion of Avalon [LoA] Alliance-Recruiting PM for info!

I'm liking that Toxic Chill MM. My only question is how are heroes with using Augury of Death?

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

Not sure about how heroes act with AoD, but I'm sure they'll use it extremely well.

DarkSpirit

DarkSpirit

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

Redmond

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antithesis
HB+PT has been around for awhile, i don't observe GvG (i should). A zealous weapon should offset the energy cost. There are definitely better options for Dazed, maybe [[skull crack]. Skull crack sucks. HB is the most reliable way for a warrior to apply daze.

If you are using HB+PT, the 33% from silencing weapon would be applied twice. Agree with Tyla on the energy issue for a hero warrior, but depending on the build it may not be that bad with adrenaline skills on the rest of the bar. But a human warrior would be better since he can weapon switch.

This build is not new but seems workable. Can do with more blind though. You only have 1 blind skill and the hero ele would probably be too busy casting other skills to apply any permanent blindness.

Blind (and second weakness) against physicals and Dazed against casters are the most useful in PvE. The rest are just bonuses.

Anyway, good post.

blurmedia

Banned

Join Date: Sep 2007

UNCONTROLLABLE RAGE [moko]

ohi tyla i heard you're bad at dervish and forgot aohm

xxx wraith xxx

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2007

The netherlands

N/

does virulence work with this build? i mean: you have weakness and poison already if i am correct and dissease can be added using that skill wich makes a minion explode and give dissease to all foes around (forgot te name ><)

Richardt

Richardt

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2007

http://friendsofloa.com/forum

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
Not sure about how heroes act with AoD, but I'm sure they'll use it extremely well.
I know from experience that giving a hero a half-casting range spell usually leads to disaster (unless it's a monk with a healing skill), but I can give it a shot tonight and see how it fairs.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by blurmedia
ohi tyla i heard you're bad at dervish and forgot aohm You can always swap out HoHF for it.
All of the builds are built to be usable without PvE-only skills aswell.

And Blur, it's "ohai" and "herd".

@Wraith -- I already have Weakness, Poison and Disease. Weakness comes from Enfeebling Blood, Poison comes from Toxic Chill and Disease comes from Rotting Flesh.
And you're thinking about Putrid Flesh for Disease.

DarkSpirit

DarkSpirit

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

Redmond

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxx wraith xxx
does virulence work with this build? i mean: you have weakness and poison already if i am correct and dissease can be added using that skill wich makes a minion explode and give dissease to all foes around (forgot te name ><) The skill that makes a minion explode is [[Death Nova] and that gives poison, not disease.

Just using Sab's MM build you already have Bleeding+Poison from [[Jagged Bones] and [[Death Nova]. Disease from Rotting Flesh is ok, but if you use disease against human enemies, it can spread the disease back to you.

I always try to bring the disease-causing skills on the human player to make better decisions on when to use it. Just using [[Signet of Infection] on a bleeding enemy (from jagged or others) would cause disease.

xxx wraith xxx

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2007

The netherlands

N/

I acually ment Putrid flesh, but I didnt know if the Toxic chill necro was for the main use or just optional. I'd rather take a ranger with poison tip signet (no energy cost ftw) and use jagged bones on the MM but that might be me. Anyway i saw the weakness ofc. Didnt know for sure bout the poison but every MM runs death nova (if not dont play MM). So only thing i was guessing for was dissease but since thats pointed out I'd like to say: thank you for telling me :P

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

Ah, but the Necro's job isn't really to MM, but to make condition pressure harder.
The minions are just icing on the cake.

DarkSpirit

DarkSpirit

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

Redmond

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxx wraith xxx
I acually ment Putrid flesh, but I didnt know if the Toxic chill necro was for the main use or just optional. I'd rather take a ranger with poison tip signet (no energy cost ftw) and use jagged bones on the MM but that might be me. Anyway i saw the weakness ofc. Didnt know for sure bout the poison but every MM runs death nova (if not dont play MM). So only thing i was guessing for was dissease but since thats pointed out I'd like to say: thank you for telling me :P Yes, Putrid flesh gives disease you are right, but my point remains the same - it spreads back to you if you use it on human foes. Disease spreads across same species, so if you use it on Charrs and you have Pyre, it spreads to him too. I like Jagged Bones and Death Nova on MM too and I have been using that combo even before GWEN.

draugr

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2005

I used to run and micro this on a derv/n hero, it worked fine, but the micro of contagion, chilblains and signet of agony got annoying and dropped it:

[contagion] [zealous renewal] [mystic regeneration][dark aura][chilblains] [signet of agony] [wearying strike] [plague touch]

Spreads targetless -7 degen and weakness to all in the area on first aggro, together with whatever conditions the mobs apply back, aoe enchant stripping, applies DW fast and reapplies DW to single target and area weakness every 6 seconds thereafter, cleans itself and does fair dmg with the scythe, holy aoe and dark aura triggered by contagion. Mystic regen makes it fairly hearty. Hero won't even begin to use it right, so had to micro, but works well if you don't mind that. Death, curse and blood can be rather low and still accomplish the desired effect.

The micro isn't really all that bad, force contagion and dark aura pre aggro, then once it has reached a target, force signet of agony and chilblains. The hero will use mystic regen, plague touch, wearying strike and zealous renewal fine w/o microing those skills.

Just wanted to add it as it fits in the OP theme.

DarkSpirit

DarkSpirit

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

Redmond

Quote:
Originally Posted by draugr
I used to run and micro this on a derv/n hero, it worked fine, but the micro of contagion, chilblains and signet of agony got annoying and dropped it: I use Contagion/Foul Feast on my human necro, along with the triple necro build for soul reaping, since I dislike too much micro on my heroes. [[Signet of Agony] gives 25s of bleeding no matter what level of blood magic. Chiblains is nice but the energy cost is high. Dark Aura gives good damage but it requires you to be at melee range so I am not sure if I trust the hero to do it right at all times.

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by draugr
[contagion] [zealous renewal] [mystic regeneration][dark aura][chilblains] [signet of agony] [wearying strike] [plague touch] This build can update.

1. Most importantly, Foul Feast can go on it, giving you some removal and the opportunity to synergize with self-infliction on you team (instead of just on the D/N). [Shadow Sanctuary], [Headbutt], and [Aggressive Refrain] come to mind as the best candidates.

2. Chilblains and Signet of Agony can come off the build. Poison and weakness are pretty weak conditions, especially if you're paying 25e for the poison.

3. Zealous Renewal can come off if Chilblains comes off, since the energy load is much lighter.

4. Armor of Sanctity can go on, and add a lot of survivability.

draugr

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
This build can update.

1. Most importantly, Foul Feast can go on it, giving you some removal and the opportunity to synergize with self-infliction on you team (instead of just on the D/N). [Shadow Sanctuary], [Headbutt], and [Aggressive Refrain] come to mind as the best candidates.
[foul feast] is an excellent idea, was using this last year before the foul feast buff.

Quote: Yes, that's right. I mistyped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
2. Chilblains and Signet of Agony can come off the build. Poison and weakness are pretty weak conditions, especially if you're paying 25e for the poison. hmm, taking you meant to say "poison and bleed are weak." As Darkspirit points out, the bleed is long, 120 degen over 20 second to all mobs in the area on a no energy skill is not bad. Stripping two enchants off every mob in the area may or may not be very useful, in certain areas, very. The ten second poison is another 80 health over ten seconds, for 140 total degen health off every mob in the area in ten seconds, and another 60 in the second ten seconds. Depending on areas, in those with high enchants, found the high energy cost of chilblains worthwhile.

Maybe this, but still requires micro:

[contagion] [armor of sanctity] [mystic regeneration] [signet of agony] [chilblains] [foul feast] [wearying strike] [plague touch]

or in less hard areas, [dark aura] stays in instead of [armor of sanctity]

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

I'm not really too keen on Contagion Reaper to be honest, I've tried it once when I had my Derv, but it doesn't really offer much.

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by draugr
hmm, taking you meant to say "poison and bleed are weak."
As Darkspirit points out, the bleed is long, 120 degen over 20 second to all mobs in the area on a no energy skill is not bad. Stripping two enchants off every mob in the area may or may not be very useful, in certain areas, very. The ten second poison is another 80 health over ten seconds, for 140 total degen health off every mob in the area in ten seconds, and another 60 in the second ten seconds. Depending on areas, in those with high enchants, found the high energy cost of chilblains worthwhile. The main problem with degen conditions (and degen generally) is that the DPS, even at max degen, is very low compared to doing direct damage. Why wait 30 sec for something to degen out when you could just kill it in 5 or so? AoE degen is somewhat better because if can drain health from multiple off targets while you're busy killing key targets.

However, there's a second problem: It's so easy to get max degen out of a few highly efficient skills that all the rest of the degen skills are superfluous. Disease spreads on its own, and more widely than Fevered Dreams or Contagion if the monsters are moving around any. Rotting Flesh and Putrid Flesh both fit nicely in MM and MB builds (respectively), and now anyone can use Signet of Infection. That's -4 AoE degen. Well of Suffering is my other AoE degen of choice. It fits easily onto MM and MB bars, and provides -6 degen. Between disease and the well, that's -10 and everything else is unnecessary. The only reason to really consider bringing degen conditions on a contagion build would be if there's no MM or MB in your party.

At any rate, if you keep Barbed Signet, I'd definitely replace Chilblains with Signet of Infection to get you just as much degen for a much lower price.

Richardt

Richardt

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2007

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If you're relying on pure degen to kill a foe, you've got a long wait ahead of you.

The idea is spread as many conditions around while using physical attack pressure to create a combined effect. In addition, degen is a way to keep enemy healers busy-if they're burning energy removing 3 conditions from the whole party, then that's just less energy they'll have for healing.

DarkSpirit

DarkSpirit

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

Redmond

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
The main problem with degen conditions (and degen generally) is that the DPS, even at max degen, is very low compared to doing direct damage. Why wait 30 sec for something to degen out when you could just kill it in 5 or so? AoE degen is somewhat better because if can drain health from multiple off targets while you're busy killing key targets. Yes damage from degen is not that impressive, but they are just bonus conditions for using a contagion build anyway. At least they are armor ignoring and bypass protection spells like Protective Spirit.

Like I have said earlier, the most useful purpose of such a build should be to spread blindess and daze. Other damage skills are still necessary especially those that respond well to conditions, for example [[Necrosis], [[Signet of Shadows], [[Signet of Toxic Shock], [[Signet of Deadly Corruption], etc. Or skills that benefit from conditions like [[Sadist's Signet], [[Signet of Corruption], or [[Signet of Malice].

And yes, yes, I am playing with Me/A and Me/N Artificer builds too, signets keep popping up in my head.

Pyro maniac

Pyro maniac

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

[stunning strike] para > the BHA ranger imo

also take more use of the PvE skills, accumulated pain is pretty bad to finish him. If you aren't using the mesmer, Fevered Dreams is pretty bad on AI imo.

DarkSpirit

DarkSpirit

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

Redmond

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyro maniac
[stunning strike] para > the BHA ranger imo

also take more use of the PvE skills, accumulated pain is pretty bad to finish him. If you aren't using the mesmer, Fevered Dreams is pretty bad on AI imo. [[Disrupting Throw], [[Spear of Fury], [[Reap Impurities], [[Malicious Strike], [[Scavenger's Focus], [[Victory is Mine], etc. would also benefit from conditions.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

With adrenaline support on the Paragon, maybe.
I mainly use these skillsets so they are hero-friendly aswell, but I admit the Mesmer could do with a little microing.

DarkSpirit

DarkSpirit

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

Redmond

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyro maniac
If you aren't using the mesmer, Fevered Dreams is pretty bad on AI imo. You are right, there is an implied sequence which means it is better to be used by a human since the AI doesnt usually understand skill sequences.

Cast order: Fevered Dreams->Fragility->Hypochondriac->Frustration->Accumulated Pain->Cry of Frustration/Guilt

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

can easily work with a sin in place of the player mesmer too:

[build prof=A/Me crit=12+1 dag=11+1+1 ill=6][fevered dreams][critical agility][black mantis thrust][sneak attack][golden fang strike][death blossom][critical eye][pain inverter][/build]

how about this?