Hey
I keep seeing necros with a shield and sword/shield and wondering why they have got these as it seems pretty pointless to me.
Thanks
Question about necros with shield
hippo942
Breakfast Mc Rit
It's likely a requirement the build they are using, for the 20% longer lasting enchantments and such.
Taisayacho
Caster sword: +5 energy +20% enchants
Shield: 16 AR, even if you don't meet the req you still get +8 AR. With a -5/20% and +30hp that's pretty good protection.
Shield: 16 AR, even if you don't meet the req you still get +8 AR. With a -5/20% and +30hp that's pretty good protection.
Tyla
Tai, that's...quite wrong...
Sword for +5E / -5E (Hiding energy) and +30hp, Shield for +10AL vs *type* and +30hp.
Sword for +5E / -5E (Hiding energy) and +30hp, Shield for +10AL vs *type* and +30hp.
snaek
well, its pretty pointless to be having ur +60health set out at all times...
so it is possible that it is an enchant sword...
in fact its pretty pointless to be holdin a shield at all unless ur bein attacked
im thinkin teh most typical reason is vanity
where exactly r u seein these necs?
pve? pvp? obs mode?
i see a lot of pve'rs showin off their high-end pve equips in ra
which is kinda ironic, cuz most of teh time they suk at pvp
so it is possible that it is an enchant sword...
in fact its pretty pointless to be holdin a shield at all unless ur bein attacked
im thinkin teh most typical reason is vanity
where exactly r u seein these necs?
pve? pvp? obs mode?
i see a lot of pve'rs showin off their high-end pve equips in ra
which is kinda ironic, cuz most of teh time they suk at pvp
HawkofStorms
No sneak, its not vanity. A shield with the right +10 armor mod provides ~23% damage reduction. I would't call that vanity. I'd call that functionality.
Since weapon swapping isn't instantenous (it takes time for the game to register that you have done it) it is very difficult to time weapon swaping like that. Against pressure builds, swapping out of an armor set all the time defeats the point of having one, and agaisnt a spike build swapping won't happen fast enough.
Since weapon swapping isn't instantenous (it takes time for the game to register that you have done it) it is very difficult to time weapon swaping like that. Against pressure builds, swapping out of an armor set all the time defeats the point of having one, and agaisnt a spike build swapping won't happen fast enough.
draugr
In addition to what others have said, soul reaping allows the necro to sacrifice some energy pool for +8 armor.
furanshisuko
yeah some times you might see n/w whit shield/sword,axe
mostly because of the above post's
or ursan
mostly because of the above post's
or ursan
Taisayacho
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Originally Posted by Tyla
Tai, that's...quite wrong...
Sword for +5E / -5E (Hiding energy) and +30hp, Shield for +10AL vs *type* and +30hp. |
snaek
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Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
No sneak, its not vanity. A shield with the right +10 armor mod provides ~23% damage reduction. I would't call that vanity. I'd call that functionality.
Since weapon swapping isn't instantenous (it takes time for the game to register that you have done it) it is very difficult to time weapon swaping like that. Against pressure builds, swapping out of an armor set all the time defeats the point of having one, and agaisnt a spike build swapping won't happen fast enough. |
but since teh op has provided little information of where hes seen em
its highly likely that teh ppl r in fact showing them for vanity
situations where u actually have lots of time to look at other ppl and their equips
btw...weapon swapping isnt seriously hard...
in pvp...u have time to see wars coming at u
and u have time to see if their holding an axe or a hammer
that is of course...unless u have no battlefield awareness at all...
btw...ur sayin weapon swapping is bad...
but u recommend al+10 shield sets (as do i)
yet ur forggetin to realize that al+10 shield sets promote weapon swapping
(switchin to al+10 vs slashing, al+10vs blunt..etc...etc)
HawkofStorms
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Originally Posted by snaek
yes...i kno teh functionality of shields...
but since teh op has provided little information of where hes seen em its highly likely that teh ppl r in fact showing them for vanity situations where u actually have lots of time to look at other ppl and their equips btw...weapon swapping isnt seriously hard... in pvp...u have time to see wars coming at u and u have time to see if their holding an axe or a hammer that is of course...unless u have no battlefield awareness at all... btw...ur sayin weapon swapping is bad... but u recommend al+10 shield sets (as do i) yet ur forggetin to realize that al+10 shield sets promote weapon swapping (switchin to al+10 vs slashing, al+10vs blunt..etc...etc) |
And it is highly likely he is seeing this in PvP... most likely RA or AB. And... even if somebody IS showing off a weapon for vanity... that doesn't change the fact that it is also functional.
wilderness
Certain builds allow you to place +7/8/9 in tactics giving you the full benefit of the shield armour (Ursan being an obvious one).
Regardless: even if you don't spend those points you get +8 armour plus modifier effects, it's hardly pointless.
Regardless: even if you don't spend those points you get +8 armour plus modifier effects, it's hardly pointless.
Chthon
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Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
And it is highly likely he is seeing this in PvP... most likely RA or AB.
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The Meth
+5 armor weapon, +8 armor (16 if meeting req) shield with +10 vs damage type
Thats a minimum +13 (21% reduction) armor vs all attacks, or +23 (33% reduction) armor if you have the damage type right. Taking a third less damage just because you swapped weapons? It's a good trade.
In PvP, all characters should have all available +armor shields and swap them based on what they think the enemy will be using when they first see them.
In PvE, just take +vs fire, slashing and blunt, as those are the most common and deadly forms of damage.
edit: Fixed my borked numbers
Thats a minimum +13 (21% reduction) armor vs all attacks, or +23 (33% reduction) armor if you have the damage type right. Taking a third less damage just because you swapped weapons? It's a good trade.
In PvP, all characters should have all available +armor shields and swap them based on what they think the enemy will be using when they first see them.
In PvE, just take +vs fire, slashing and blunt, as those are the most common and deadly forms of damage.
edit: Fixed my borked numbers
Food
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Taisayacho
Caster sword: +5 energy +20% enchants
Shield: 16 AR, even if you don't meet the req you still get +8 AR. With a -5/20% and +30hp that's pretty good protection. |
-5/20% is among the least optimal mods for a shield there are. If you can do the math, -5/20% is basically -1 dmg/hit. Wow. You'll find as you move onto "high-level" PvP that +10AL mods will, literally, save your life. Making 1-5 sin combos do 200 dmg instead of 300 helps a lot when you're in a tight situation.
And Tylas is right, decent casters have at least 4 sets, a defensive set, a casting set, a high set, and an alternative casting set. The necros you see are just in their defensive set, probably with a +30 mod (20% enchant mods are pratically useless if you wep swap before you cast an enchant) w/ either a +5/-5 energy mod and a shield w/ a +30 mod and a +10AL vs X (vs. Slashing is optimal because, well, slashing is probably the most common damage type there is with all the sins and Crippling Slash wars skipping out there).
The Meth
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Originally Posted by Food
-5/20% is among the least optimal mods for a shield there are. If you can do the math, -5/20% is basically -1 dmg/hit. Wow. You'll find as you move onto "high-level" PvP that +10AL mods will, literally, save your life. Making 1-5 sin combos do 200 dmg instead of 300 helps a lot when you're in a tight situation.
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HawkofStorms
Also, Taisayacho was already corrected and posted saying "thanks for the correction." No need to post again with the same information going "LOL" (with some incorrect statemnts thrown in).
Kale Ironfist
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Originally Posted by The Meth
+5 armor weapon, +8 armor (16 if meeting req) shield with +10 vs damage type
Thats a minimum +13 (25% reduction) armor vs all attacks, or +23 (49% reduction) armor if you have the damage type right. Taking nearly 50% less damage just because you swapped weapons? It's a good trade. In PvP, all characters should have all available +armor shields and swap them based on what they think the enemy will be using when they first see them. In PvE, just take +vs fire, slashing and blunt, as those are the most common and deadly forms of damage. |
HawkofStorms
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Originally Posted by Kale Ironfist
The % reduction seems wrong, since +24 armor is 33% reduction, and +40 armor is 50% reduction...
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Kale Ironfist
The percent reduction is how much less damage you would have taken than if you didn't have the armor bonus. It doesn't matter what your original or base armor is, you're taking that much less damage so long as you have that boost.
For example, +48 armor (two hits of +24, if armor stacking was still allowed) reduces your damage by 55.5% (4/9ths), vs +40 armors' 50%.
For example, +48 armor (two hits of +24, if armor stacking was still allowed) reduces your damage by 55.5% (4/9ths), vs +40 armors' 50%.
snaek
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Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
What the damage reduction is percentage wise is also variable on what the base armor of the profession we are talking about is.
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+40al is +50%dmg reduction no matter wut ur current al is
i.e. a 60al +40al bonus target eats a flare @ 60dmg and it will reduce it to 30dmg
a 80al +40al bonus target eats a flare @ 60dmg, reduced to 46dmg (from natural al), then reduced to 23dmg (from +40al bonus)
(btw, those numbers r rough guesses)
The Meth
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Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
What the damage reduction is percentage wise is also variable on what the base armor of the profession we are talking about is.
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RavagerOfDreams
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Originally Posted by Chthon
I don't think I've ever seen someone weapon swap in RA or AB (not counting myself).
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ontopic its a weapon swap for higher health/defense and lower energy
the low energy is "hide" your energy when you have pesky mesmers trying to steal/drain it all
HawkofStorms
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Originally Posted by The Meth
Kale was correct, adding 40 armor will reduce damage by 50%, whether your original armor was 0 or 1000, discounting round off error of course. To find total damage reduction, you compare the total armor vs the base armor of 60, since 60 armor always takes 100% damage.
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Dark Kal
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Originally Posted by Tyla
Tai, that's...quite wrong...
Sword for +5E / -5E (Hiding energy) and +30hp, Shield for +10AL vs *type* and +30hp. |
Stormlord Alex
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Originally Posted by Dark Kal
There are PvE players you know. PvE players do use melee weapons for the +5 energy and 20% longer enchants. PvE players also generally don't like swapping so the -5/20 mod will do fine. So no, Tai wasn't completely wrong.
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A staff is better for your enchanting set.
-5/20% is a terrible mod under any condition. +10 vs Fire or -2 enchanted are far better on a caster in PvE, even if you only have one shield.
Elder III
Agreed -5/20% is good for only one thing: salvage it and sell it fast for profit. 
Dark Kal
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Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
Coincidentally, a lot of PvE players are pretty bad and/or lazy.
A staff is better for your enchanting set. -5/20% is a terrible mod under any condition. +10 vs Fire or -2 enchanted are far better on a caster in PvE, even if you only have one shield. |
The -5/20% is not a bad mod either there are plenty of other damage types in PvE so your +10 vs fire will be doing nothing a lot of the time, and your -2 enchanted requires you to have atleast 1 enchant on you all the time which isn't practical for all caster classes either.
Stormlord Alex
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Originally Posted by Dark Kal
No the staff is not always better since you won't be able to bring the shield/focus.
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the +enchants mod. This is fact.
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| The -5/20% is not a bad mod either |
Quote:
| there are plenty of other damage types in PvE so your +10 vs fire will be doing nothing a lot of the time, and your -2 enchanted requires you to have atleast 1 enchant on you all the time which isn't practical for all caster classes either. |
As for -2 enchants... "Hi, I'm a monk. I cast enchants on you"
Face it, -5/20 is horrible, end of. Unless you like monies - there's loads of clueless tards out there who want them.
Kale Ironfist
I'd take a -2/enchanted because it's stronger and just as general use compared to -5/20%.
There is no good reason to take a -5/20%. In PvE, it's a lot easier to manipulate the conditions such that whatever inscription you use will always trigger, and in PvP, you can create as many off-hands as you need to fit every situation.
There is no good reason to take a -5/20%. In PvE, it's a lot easier to manipulate the conditions such that whatever inscription you use will always trigger, and in PvP, you can create as many off-hands as you need to fit every situation.
Tyla
The -5/20% Mod is pathetic.
Alex had it right on using the 10AL vs. Fire, there.
Plus, the 10AL vs. Fire is cheaper. Same for -2/Enchant.
And yeah, if there was no -50hp Cesta, the +5E/+20% wouldn't get used.
600HP / Smite > 55hp anyhow, and it's a stave for that mainly.
Alex had it right on using the 10AL vs. Fire, there.
Plus, the 10AL vs. Fire is cheaper. Same for -2/Enchant.
And yeah, if there was no -50hp Cesta, the +5E/+20% wouldn't get used.
600HP / Smite > 55hp anyhow, and it's a stave for that mainly.
The Meth
-5/20% is only decent if you are criminally lazy and haven't learned to weapon swap. Not coincidentally, so is sundering.
.kitsune.
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Originally Posted by Dark Kal
PvE players also generally don't like swapping so the -5/20 mod will do fine.
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There are so many good inscriptions to use, it's kind of a waste to use a -5/20%. Get rid of the mod. Salvage it off, sell it, make yourself some cash and improve your shield by using a much better inscription. I can understand if say, a person is new at the game and can't afford much, and it happens to be on a cheap green shield (Exalted Aegis, for example)...but really, other mods are just much more useful.
Kale and Alex's posts explain it best imo, reread their posts if you still don't understand.
MagmaRed
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Originally Posted by Dark Kal
No the staff is not always better since you won't be able to bring the shield/focus.
The -5/20% is not a bad mod either there are plenty of other damage types in PvE so your +10 vs fire will be doing nothing a lot of the time, and your -2 enchanted requires you to have atleast 1 enchant on you all the time which isn't practical for all caster classes either. |
Elementalist will use an Attunement and Aura of Restoration all the time (rare builds don't). This means a -2/enchant shield would work all the time.
Mesmer will use a Mantra a lot of the time, and various enchantments a lot too (Visages, Arcane Echo, etc.) so either a -2/enchant or -2/stance will work all the time.
Monk can easily run an enchantment, and should for almost all builds. -2/enchant works all the time.
Ritualist runs several different enchantments in PvE depending on the build. -2/enchant would work most of the time.
Necro runs enchantments for a lot of builds (Awaken, Orders, Aura, etc.) and would get a benefit most of the time.
Lets not forget about running a secondary too. If you are running a build without any enchantments or stances, you are probably on a team with someone who is (Monk). When you need that damage reduction, you will end up getting enchanted by the Monk (Protective Spirit, Shield of Absorption, etc.).
Now, look at why -2/enchant and -2/stance would be better than -5/20%. We will assume 2 things. First, the -5/20% triggers exactly 20% of the time. Second, the caster is using a stance/enchant.
-5/20% = -10 damage over 10 hits
-2/stance = -20 damage over 10 hits
-2/enchant = -20 damage over 10 hits
Obsiously you get double the damage reduction from the stance and enchant mods. Also, you get them 100%, while the 20% may actually only trigger once every 6-7 hits.
Every caster class has several options without using a secondary for both Stance and Enchantment. I'd prefer to use those and take a risk, rather than hope the -5 triggers when I need it to.
кιωι
+5/20% cant be found on a wand, and many builds energy is not critical and therefore extra armour is a better idea