It IS true.
Paragon's, although with all the nerfs are still imbalanced, and you'll be extremely stupid to say otherwise.
I'm not ONLY on about PvE, either.
No kidding.
[skill]cruel spear[/skill][skill]spear of lightning[/skill] - [skill]fall back[/skill]
[skill]eviscerate[/skill][skill]executioner's strike[/skill] - [skill]charge[/skill]
Notice teh similaritahz
Paragons could rule AB
Pyro maniac
Desert Nomad
Join Date: Apr 2006
07 May 2008 at 12:19 - 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Pink57
14 Spear
12 Leadership
9 Command
14, 12, 7
or unless you're running a major rune.
Mist Walker Skarloc
Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Apr 2007
Gods Of The Hot [GotH]
P/W
07 May 2008 at 16:00 - 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Pink57
Doesn't mattter.
14 Spear
12 Leadership
9 Command
[Cruel Spear] [Spear of Lightning] optional ["Never Surrender"] [Anthem of Flame] ["For Great Justice"] [Aggressive Refrain] Res
["Go For The Eyes"] or ["There's Nothing To Fear"] is my usual optional. Can take [Anthem of Weariness] over [Anthem of Flame] especially against destroyers.
Can take [Spear of Fury] over [Spear of Lightning] if you have conditions flying around to fuel [Cruel Spear].
Can drop res for ["I Am The Strongest"] but I would max Norn before you do that for +20 death.
Puts out decent dps with a bit of party support.
pink
That looks good, very easy skills to get too, thanks a lot for that!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby2
No kidding.
[Cruel Spear][Spear of Lightning] ["Fall Back!"]
[Eviscerate][Executioner's Strike] ["Charge!"]
Wow, they are pretty similar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by timebandit
Nope, through the simple fact that adrenaline gain is capped at +100% which you get anyway through either Focused Anger
[Focused Anger]
Or For Great Justice
["For Great Justice!"]
. And vamp is just the best mod ever since and a 'must' with an IAS (or just sundering for the lazy folks).
Ah right, I've never really been into warriors or paragons before so I didn't know about the adrenaline cap. Thanks for telling me that, I'll see about getting a vampiric spear now.
Tyla
Emo Goth Italics
Join Date: Sep 2006
07 May 2008 at 17:25 - 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adja1005
Not to mention that GW needs another option for high end PvE other than Ursan. An 8 man Imbagon group can be just as effective as an 8 man Ursan group and sometimes be even more effective due to them not relying on HB monks.
Yeah, because you really need 8 copies of TNTF and SY...
Quote:
I think people generally seem to dislike Paragon's for being a class that can fit two roles in a group at the same time instead of being limited to just the one role. Whats wrong with a high DPS and great defensive ability all in the one class? Do we all want to stay limited to using Ursanway and HB monks?
And unremovable buffs. There are so many things which makes a Paragon overpowered.
If you played PvP, you'll know. But you should really know just by playing one in PvE too.
lustnlood
Academy Page
Join Date: Jan 2008
Me/
07 May 2008 at 18:12 - 45
this is hilarious... even to read...
paragons? overpowered...? lol?
erm.. first off everyone has his own good points... and i stress this for the gazillianth time. paragons just happen to be a great front to midliner... pvp? comon you have to be joking... unless they are in HA or GvG they are erm.... retarded...
try them in AB and Ta or HB or RA... then pls let me know when you have edited the thing... thnx...
some ppl really do talk out of their behinds...
Adja1005
Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Mar 2008
Scotland
R/
07 May 2008 at 18:26 - 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
Yeah, because you really need 8 copies of TNTF and SY...
No different to a group of players all using the same overpowered skill and spamming 1,2,3 over and over and over. And who said an 8 man Paragon team all have to use SY! and TNTF? From personal experience i've found 1 or 2 SY! and TNTF! users is enough to keep the party stable while the rest focus on damage/tanking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
And unremovable buffs. There are so many things which makes a Paragon overpowered.
[skill]Vocal Minority[/skill] and [skill]Soothing Images[/skill] will shut down a Paragon's buffing ability. In PvP using these skills to shut a Paragon down is really easy, people need to do more research i think...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
If you played PvP, you'll know. But you should really know just by playing one in PvE too.
I've had a Paragon since NF's release, can't really disagree with you that there is some advantages they have over other classes. But when compared to say, Monks for example, they aren't that overpowered. I mean are you seriously telling me that a class which has great party wide buffs is more imbalanced than a class that can solo end game bosses, entire dungeons and most areas in PvE?
lustnlood
Academy Page
Join Date: Jan 2008
Me/
07 May 2008 at 18:33 - 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
Yeah, because you really need 8 copies of TNTF and SY...
And unremovable buffs. There are so many things which makes a Paragon overpowered.
If you played PvP, you'll know. But you should really know just by playing one in PvE too.
ok... story time...
i went to do the quet to get EBON ESCAPE... the eotn skill...
i had a go with my mesmer which runs a very good - moderatly fun build
i killed the mobs .... and i do mean mobs... in under 4 minutes... with my paragon... IMBAGON as many people call it (i dont get it XD) had to do it 4 times because he is so overpowered and so imba spamming 1,2,3...
stop all this trashtalk about overpowered spearthrowing classes and if you really dislike it just leave the forum and let us spearthrowing losers and no experience and noobies spam our 1,2,3 at each other while you go be pro playing something else like um... runescape... with your large capacity for pro gaming im sure you'll rock overthere
Tyla
Emo Goth Italics
Join Date: Sep 2006
07 May 2008 at 18:44 - 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adja1005
No different to a group of players all using the same overpowered skill and spamming 1,2,3 over and over and over. And who said an 8 man Paragon team all have to use SY! and TNTF? From personal experience i've found 1 or 2 SY! and TNTF! users is enough to keep the party stable while the rest focus on damage/tanking.
I fail to see the logic here.
1 Imbagon makes the entire party already practically invincible, so you can use the rest of the party for damage to surpass that of an Imbagon.
Quote:
[skill]Vocal Minority[/skill] and [skill]Soothing Images[/skill] will shut down a Paragon's buffing ability. In PvP using these skills to shut a Paragon down is really easy, people need to do more research i think...
Hex removal says hi.
You can say Soothing Images would screw up a Warrior aswell. With your logic, spikes can't happen then.
Again, hex removal.
And as said many times, just because there are counters doesn't stop things being overpowered.
You could say the game is perfectly balanced becasue Blind > Melee and Daze > Casters if you want, it still doesn't derive the truth.
Quote:
I've had a Paragon since NF's release, can't really disagree with you that there is some advantages they have over other classes. But when compared to say, Monks for example, they aren't that overpowered. I mean are you seriously telling me that a class which has great party wide buffs is more imbalanced than a class that can solo end game bosses, entire dungeons and most areas in PvE?
Yeah, you can solo the majority of the game if you really devote yourself to it, study the skillsets ect.
It doesn't take a genious to note down the counters needed, make the skillset, and take advantage of the stupidity of the enemy AI.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lustnlood
ok... story time...
i went to do the quet to get EBON ESCAPE... the eotn skill...
i had a go with my mesmer which runs a very good - moderatly fun build
i killed the mobs .... and i do mean mobs... in under 4 minutes... with my paragon... IMBAGON as many people call it (i dont get it XD) had to do it 4 times because he is so overpowered and so imba spamming 1,2,3...
Maybe it's because you can put more damage on your Mesmer? Cry of Pain, and other armour-ignoring damage.
The Imbagon is DEFENSE, not complete OFFENSE, although it does carry a substantial amount of single-target damage.
Quote:
stop all this trashtalk about overpowered spearthrowing classes and if you really dislike it just leave the forum and let us spearthrowing losers and no experience and noobies spam our 1,2,3 at each other while you go be pro playing something else like um... runescape... with your large capacity for pro gaming im sure you'll rock overthere
Who said I dislike it? I like the class myself, but I still believe it deserves a nerf because it's so overpowered. If you understood that and wasn't so ignorant towards it's power, even through reading how overpowered it is...
(Including non-PvE only builds such as Imbagon.)
Some people just need to learn to face the truth and stop being carebears. Seriously.
Adja1005
Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Mar 2008
Scotland
R/
07 May 2008 at 19:39 - 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
I fail to see the logic here.
1 Imbagon makes the entire party already practically invincible, so you can use the rest of the party for damage to surpass that of an Imbagon.
My point is that while Ursans have huge DPS and take seconds to smash through PvE mobs while soaking up masses of damage due to increased health. Imbagons have good defense to allow their lower DPS groups to survive longer against difficult PvE mobs but take longer to get through PvE mobs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
Hex removal says hi.
You can say Soothing Images would screw up a Warrior aswell. With your logic, spikes can't happen then.
You said there was no way to remove buffs from Paragons and i provided two skills which could be used to atleast hinder or halt their use of shouts, chants and adrenal skills. And even with hex removal its still possible to use those skills and hinder a Paragon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
Again, hex removal.
And as said many times, just because there are counters doesn't stop things being overpowered.
Agreed, but if used effectively these counters can be usefull at hindering a Paragon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
Yeah, you can solo the majority of the game if you really devote yourself to it, study the skillsets ect.
It doesn't take a genious to note down the counters needed, make the skillset, and take advantage of the stupidity of the enemy AI.
While this is true for some classes it isn't for a vast majority of them. On their own Paragons are weak and only really become great when in a party. I suggest you go find a Paragon on their own in an AB match and see how long he/she lasts. Even in PvE a solo Paragon will struggle to maintain a steady DPS against multiple enemies dealing heavy DPS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
Who said I dislike it? I like the class myself, but I still believe it deserves a nerf because it's so overpowered. If you understood that and wasn't so ignorant towards it's power, even through reading how overpowered it is...
(Including non-PvE only builds such as Imbagon.)
Some people just need to learn to face the truth and stop being carebears. Seriously.
And some people need to realise that Paragon's don't need to be nerfed its the SY! skill that many Paragons use that needs to be nerfed. That +100 armour bonus is a little too overpowered even when used by other classes.
Tyla
Emo Goth Italics
Join Date: Sep 2006
07 May 2008 at 19:48 - 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adja1005
My point is that while Ursans have huge DPS and take seconds to smash through PvE mobs while soaking up masses of damage due to increased health. Imbagons have good defense to allow their lower DPS groups to survive longer against difficult PvE mobs but take longer to get through PvE mobs.
Then why bring up an 8-Imbagon group?
Quote:
You said there was no way to remove buffs from Paragons and i provided two skills which could be used to atleast hinder or halt their use of shouts, chants and adrenal skills. And even with hex removal its still possible to use those skills and hinder a Paragon.
Ah yeah, REMOVE, not PREVENT.
Quote:
Agreed, but if used effectively these counters can be usefull at hindering a Paragon.
Agreed, but if hex removal can be managed it's gg to these counters.
Quote:
While this is true for some classes it isn't for a vast majority of them. On their own Paragons are weak and only really become great when in a party. I suggest you go find a Paragon on their own in an AB match and see how long he/she lasts. Even in PvE a solo Paragon will struggle to maintain a steady DPS against multiple enemies dealing heavy DPS.
Because you're really going to be going solo with a Paragon, or in general anywhere?
No, I'm not talking about farming, I'm talking about playing with your party, which is more...normal play.
And yeah, a guildie of mine devised a solo Paragon build. :>
Quote:
And some people need to realise that Paragon's don't need to be nerfed its the SY! skill that many Paragons use that needs to be nerfed. That +100 armour bonus is a little too overpowered even when used by other classes.
If you look at it from a PvP point of view, you'll understand. Heck, you don't even need to look at it from PvP.
Just read the things they are capable of:
Unremovable buffs.
Stupid spear damage.
Neverending buffs.
Extremely strong in defensive support and offensive capability, sure other classes do it, but not THAT good.
And before you come out with that "It can be countered" crap, if the vast majority of this game's skills can be countered, it means that the game is 100% balanced?
Wrong by a longshot.
That's like saying that the Shadow Walk -> Enchant Spam build (Roughly 500 DPS) wasn't overpowered because Spirit Bond and Protective Spirit exist.
Adja1005
Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Mar 2008
Scotland
R/
07 May 2008 at 21:00 - 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
Then why bring up an 8-Imbagon group?
What i was trying to express was the simple tortoise and the hare idea which if you know the story you would understand. Ursans are like the hare, they take more damage but kill everything quickly before taking fatal damage. Now the Imbagaon group is the tortoise, slow and steady, moderate DPS with higher defense to last longer in fights. Start nerfing Paragon skills and you end up with a build/class that has mediocre defense and moderate damage. Then we'll start seeing more and more Ursangons (if this happens i claim this phrase :P).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
Ah yeah, REMOVE, not PREVENT.
Same concept as condoms mate, wouldn't you rather prevent than deal with a pregnancy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
Because you're really going to be going solo with a Paragon, or in general anywhere?
No, I'm not talking about farming, I'm talking about playing with your party, which is more...normal play.
My point with solo farming was that Paragon's only ever come across as "imbalanced and overpowered" when in a group. But when on their own they tend to really suck. Where as classes, like monks which i mentioned, seem to be able to solo everything (Great Destroyer anyone?) without problem. Now that is an overpowered and somewhat imbalanced class if it can do things which other classes struggle to do with a full group.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
And yeah, a guildie of mine devised a solo Paragon build. :>
Wouldn't happen to have been the Paratrooper build was it? :P
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
Just read the things they are capable of:
Unremovable buffs.
Stupid spear damage.
Neverending buffs.
Extremely strong in defensive support and offensive capability, sure other classes do it, but not THAT good.
Perfectly valid points i agree but when you look at it thats why Paragon's seem to overpowered. No other class, except perhaps Monks, can be so effective in a party and help save them from a wipe. Its the why Anet created them to be this way, to give amazing party support but be almost useless on their own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
And before you come out with that "It can be countered" crap, if the vast majority of this game's skills can be countered, it means that the game is 100% balanced?
Wrong by a longshot.
I'm not sure why you said that specifically, not once did i say "oh but X skill counters Y skill!". All i did was mention two skills that could be used to perhaps hinder how often a Paragon uses chants, shouts or adrenal skills. And not once did i say GW was balanced (because i agree its a long way from balanced), all i said was that in the larger scheme of things Paragons are balanced when compared to a lot of classes.
Why do i say that? Because for a Paragon to be effective it requires a group where as a lot of classes in GW can do many things solo that a Paragon just cant hope to do solo.
Bobby2
Furnace Stoker
Join Date: Jun 2007
Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards
[MaSS]
W/E
07 May 2008 at 21:07 - 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by lustnlood
this is hilarious... even to read...
paragons? overpowered...? lol?
erm.. first off everyone has his own good points... and i stress this for the gazillianth time. paragons just happen to be a great front to midliner... pvp? comon you have to be joking... unless they are in HA or GvG they are erm.... retarded...
try them in AB and Ta or HB or RA... then pls let me know when you have edited the thing... thnx...
some ppl really do talk out of their behinds...
Whoops. You just failed.
Tyla
Emo Goth Italics
Join Date: Sep 2006
07 May 2008 at 22:13 - 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adja1005
Same concept as condoms mate, wouldn't you rather prevent than deal with a pregnancy?
Err...
There is a difference between removing and preventing you know.
If you remove something, you take it away.
If you prevent something, you stop it from happening.
There is no way you can remove Mending Refrain or Aggressive Refrain when it's up.
Quote:
My point with solo farming was that Paragon's only ever come across as "imbalanced and overpowered" when in a group. But when on their own they tend to really suck. Where as classes, like monks which i mentioned, seem to be able to solo everything (Great Destroyer anyone?) without problem. Now that is an overpowered and somewhat imbalanced class if it can do things which other classes struggle to do with a full group.
I thought we were talking about normal play and not solo'ing?
This isn't the farming forum.
Quote:
Wouldn't happen to have been the Paratrooper build was it? :P
It wasn't really the FoW Paratrooper, and it was specifically designed to take on the majority of melee mobs.
Maybe I'm wrong, could be the first time I seen it.
And wait, did you just point out another solo Paragon build?
These things belong in the farming forum anyway. I could call you ignorant at this point, but at the same time I would be right in calling myself ignorant for pointing out a farming build in a general PvE discussion.
Quote:
Perfectly valid points i agree but when you look at it thats why Paragon's seem to overpowered. No other class, except perhaps Monks, can be so effective in a party and help save them from a wipe. Its the why Anet created them to be this way, to give amazing party support but be almost useless on their own.
Because ANet haven't done stupid things before?
Quote:
I'm not sure why you said that specifically, not once did i say "oh but X skill counters Y skill!". All i did was mention two skills that could be used to perhaps hinder how often a Paragon uses chants, shouts or adrenal skills. And not once did i say GW was balanced (because i agree its a long way from balanced), all i said was that in the larger scheme of things Paragons are balanced when compared to a lot of classes.
It was aimed at your current mentality. Again, just because there are counters doesn't mean it can't be overpowered.
Quote:
Why do i say that? Because for a Paragon to be effective it requires a group where as a lot of classes in GW can do many things solo that a Paragon just cant hope to do solo.
Again, this isn't the farming forum.
Kale Ironfist
Jungle Guide
Join Date: Jul 2006
Australia
Venatio Illuminata [VEIL]
W/
07 May 2008 at 22:23 - 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adja1005
I'm not sure why you said that specifically, not once did i say "oh but X skill counters Y skill!". All i did was mention two skills that could be used to perhaps hinder how often a Paragon uses chants, shouts or adrenal skills. And not once did i say GW was balanced (because i agree its a long way from balanced), all i said was that in the larger scheme of things Paragons are balanced when compared to a lot of classes.
Why do i say that? Because for a Paragon to be effective it requires a group where as a lot of classes in GW can do many things solo that a Paragon just cant hope to do solo.
Those two skills you mention suck; they are terrible skills. Decent hex removal (which every team brings) absolutely destroys any use the skills had in the first place.
Also, how is requiring a group a disadvantage, when the entire point of the game to be in a team and work together?
Adja1005
Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Mar 2008
Scotland
R/
07 May 2008 at 23:43 - 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
Err...
There is a difference between removing and preventing you know.
If you remove something, you take it away.
If you prevent something, you stop it from happening.
There is no way you can remove Mending Refrain or Aggressive Refrain when it's up.
I didn't suggest those two skills to remove, i suggested them as a possible way to help prevent Paragon's from using buffs. Re-read what i said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
I thought we were talking about normal play and not solo'ing?
This isn't the farming forum.
You assumed wrong. You stated Paragons are overpowered, i was pointing out that in groups they can be. But on their own their definately not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
It wasn't really the FoW Paratrooper, and it was specifically designed to take on the majority of melee mobs.
Maybe I'm wrong, could be the first time I seen it.
And wait, did you just point out another solo Paragon build?
Well at this moment the "Paratrooper" build and your friends build could quite possibly be the same build, with slight variations. And when you compare Paragons to the other classes there just isn't that many solo builds for them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
These things belong in the farming forum anyway. I could call you ignorant at this point, but at the same time I would be right in calling myself ignorant for pointing out a farming build in a general PvE discussion.
We've both gone semi off-topic but i wouldnt say we were ignorant for talking about farming builds in the general PvE section. Not when the OP asked for motivation to play a Paragon, some people might be more inclined to play a specific class if they knew there were working builds to solo bosses or areas as farming has become a big thing in GW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
Because ANet haven't done stupid things before?
Anet designed the game how they wanted it to be, what you or i think might be stupid is possibly perfectly valid for them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
It was aimed at your current mentality. Again, just because there are counters doesn't mean it can't be overpowered.
I didn't say that because of the two skills i mentioned Paragons are balanced, i merely mentioned them as a possible way to hinder the use of those unremovable buffs you were whining about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
Again, this isn't the farming forum.
Again you've missed the point. How can you say a single class is overpowered when it struggles to solo areas or bosses in the game? Yet there are plenty of classes in GW that can be highly effective at soloing and grouping. For a class to be overpowered i'd say it atleast has to be able to power through areas or bosses on its own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kale Ironfist
Those two skills you mention suck; they are terrible skills. Decent hex removal (which every team brings) absolutely destroys any use the skills had in the first place.
Also, how is requiring a group a disadvantage, when the entire point of the game to be in a team and work together?
I didn't mention they were perfect skills to use, i just pointed out that there are skills available to help hinder a Paragons buffs. And to say every team brings a hex removal in PvP is a huge assumption to make.
Have you never heard of farming? soloing? some people enjoy playing on their own for fun or for the hope in getting rare drops. While Paragons are not totally useless on their own they have a larger disadvantage when alone compared to certain classes. I suggest you catch a Paragon on their own in AB and see how long they survive.
I think some people are ignoring the point of my posts. Paragons aren't imbalanced, its a specific build that has caused them to become hugely powerfull in PvE. And to say an entire class needs nerfing because of one build is well, stupid. If anything needs nerfing its SY! or Ursan. Because at the current moment unless you go Ursan it can be very hard to get into high end PvE groups. And the Imbagon build provides a nice counter for those wanting to go non-Ursanway in high end PvE.
Bront
Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Feb 2008
Honored Order of Light
W/Me
08 May 2008 at 02:59 - 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby2
No kidding.
[skill]cruel spear[/skill][skill]spear of lightning[/skill] - [skill]fall back[/skill]
[skill]eviscerate[/skill][skill]Penetrating blow[/skill] - [skill]charge[/skill]
Notice teh similaritahz
Paragons could rule AB
Fixed the comparison for you
Only negatives are the Paragon requires a bit more energy, but Leadership takes care of that, so the Paragon is superior in every other way with those.
[DE]
Hugs and Kisses
Join Date: Oct 2005
Scars Meadows
08 May 2008 at 03:04 - 57
Ranged damage that can almost equal a warrior.
Near-Infinite +100 AL to your entire team in PvE
Unstrippable Buffs
Mr Pink57
Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Apr 2007
a van down by the river
iBench
P/W
08 May 2008 at 04:16 - 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyro maniac
14, 12, 7
or unless you're running a major rune.
Use the major rune.
pink
Axel Zinfandel
Desert Nomad
Join Date: Sep 2007
Northeastern Ohio
LaZy
P/W
08 May 2008 at 04:46 - 59
I think this thread needs to die. It's purpose has been achieved and now people are just bitching.
So... +1
Kale Ironfist
Jungle Guide
Join Date: Jul 2006
Australia
Venatio Illuminata [VEIL]
W/
08 May 2008 at 06:56 - 60
Quote:
Have you never heard of farming? soloing? some people enjoy playing on their own for fun or for the hope in getting rare drops. While Paragons are not totally useless on their own they have a larger disadvantage when alone compared to certain classes. I suggest you catch a Paragon on their own in AB and see how long they survive.
A Paragon with a build designed to play on a skirmish would be a weaker version of the CripShot Ranger. Also, catching anyone alone, when they don't have a specific build to play as a solo character, will kill them, regardless of profession.
Again, this game is all about being in a team. Farming doesn't further you in terms of the ability to access game content, and Soloing tends to not get you very far either. Both may help you in obtaining content, but access to it is another matter entirely.
LifeInfusion
Grotto Attendant
Join Date: May 2005
in the midline
E/Mo
08 May 2008 at 16:14 - 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by kostolomac
It's hard for the paragon to compete with warrior in dps due to the strength attribute imo , but being ranged is a good advantage.
strength only applies to attack skills.
Tyla
Emo Goth Italics
Join Date: Sep 2006
08 May 2008 at 16:33 - 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adja1005
I didn't suggest those two skills to remove, i suggested them as a possible way to help prevent Paragon's from using buffs. Re-read what i said.
And what do you do when the hexes get removed? Wait more time to reapply?
Paragons don't need adrenaline to be stupid with these buffs aswell.
Quote:
You assumed wrong. You stated Paragons are overpowered, i was pointing out that in groups they can be. But on their own their definately not.
This isn't the farming forum. Normal play implies you're using a full team anyway.
And since overpowered is usually a term built for builds that are too strong in PvP, since when is someone going to be using a 1 man GvG team? 1 man HA team?
Quote:
Well at this moment the "Paratrooper" build and your friends build could quite possibly be the same build, with slight variations. And when you compare Paragons to the other classes there just isn't that many solo builds for them.
That other build was using Blazing Finale as a damage tool.
And yeah, who cares about solo farming except for farmers? Make an Ele or something if you want to farm, or use a hero and use a variable.
Quote:
We've both gone semi off-topic but i wouldnt say we were ignorant for talking about farming builds in the general PvE section. Not when the OP asked for motivation to play a Paragon, some people might be more inclined to play a specific class if they knew there were working builds to solo bosses or areas as farming has become a big thing in GW.
There is a forum MADE for farming.
Quote:
Anet designed the game how they wanted it to be, what you or i think might be stupid is possibly perfectly valid for them.
My point still stands. If a company does something stupid, the playerbase will know. The playerbase decides some things for the game aswell, as without the playerbase there won't be a game.
Quote:
I didn't say that because of the two skills i mentioned Paragons are balanced, i merely mentioned them as a possible way to hinder the use of those unremovable buffs you were whining about.
Oh, so you DO agree with Paragons being overpowered!
Counters exist. Counters to those counters exist. And so on.
Quote:
Again you've missed the point. How can you say a single class is overpowered when it struggles to solo areas or bosses in the game? Yet there are plenty of classes in GW that can be highly effective at soloing and grouping. For a class to be overpowered i'd say it atleast has to be able to power through areas or bosses on its own.
It doesn't mean it's overpowered, it means the AI is stupid.
You can say Empathy, Spiteful Spirit, Backfire are overpowered in PvE because enemies cast through it aswell.
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I didn't mention they were perfect skills to use, i just pointed out that there are skills available to help hinder a Paragons buffs. And to say every team brings a hex removal in PvP is a huge assumption to make
Only because it's true. Even Sways use hex removal. Find me a team in PvP, that is decent and in a decent area that doesn't use hex removal and your point stands. Until then your argument is moot/
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Have you never heard of farming? soloing? some people enjoy playing on their own for fun or for the hope in getting rare drops. While Paragons are not totally useless on their own they have a larger disadvantage when alone compared to certain classes. I suggest you catch a Paragon on their own in AB and see how long they survive.
I suggest you stop talking bollocks. Don't forget that AB has 3 teams of 4 players.
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I think some people are ignoring the point of my posts. Paragons aren't imbalanced, its a specific build that has caused them to become hugely powerfull in PvE. And to say an entire class needs nerfing because of one build is well, stupid. If anything needs nerfing its SY! or Ursan. Because at the current moment unless you go Ursan it can be very hard to get into high end PvE groups. And the Imbagon build provides a nice counter for those wanting to go non-Ursanway in high end PvE.
It's not one build. It's the entire class.
Just because you don't understand why they're so overpowered doesn't mean that they aren't overpowered. If you play PvP, or understand the game at all, or even read the positive things they give, with a semi-decent understanding of the game you'll know that.
I understand that you're quite bad when it comes to this sort of stuff.
The Meth
Desert Nomad
Join Date: Jan 2007
R/
08 May 2008 at 17:05 - 63
Paragons may kill about 80% effectively as a warrior. Their attacks are also unkiteable and they have a permanent IAS.
Paragons can throw around party wide prot/heal, say, 70% as well as a monk. These buffs are unstrippable and some of them only need to be cast once in a match.
And they can do both of these at the same time in most cases. Their only downfall is they are weak in splits, but the number of times you split in PvE can be counted on one hand. With Leprosy. In PvP this weakness for splits has prevented us from seeing 8 paragon teams winning everything, but they are still good enough that you most often see 1 paragon in an 8 person team.
MasterSasori
Desert Nomad
Join Date: Dec 2007
USA
[Thay]
R/Mo
08 May 2008 at 23:24 - 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by lustnlood
this is hilarious... even to read...
paragons? overpowered...? lol?
erm.. first off everyone has his own good points... and i stress this for the gazillianth time. paragons just happen to be a great front to midliner... pvp? comon you have to be joking... unless they are in HA or GvG they are erm.... retarded...
try them in AB and Ta or HB or RA... then pls let me know when you have edited the thing... thnx...
some ppl really do talk out of their behinds...
ummm epic fail.
Mist Walker Skarloc
Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Apr 2007
Gods Of The Hot [GotH]
P/W
09 May 2008 at 07:02 - 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterSasori
ummm epic fail.
Agreed.
Anyways, I've made my paragon, it's awesome, I'm sticking with it, I'm grateful for the first page or so which had what I asked for in it. I appreciate the ideas people gave me, but this thread has become a flamewar between the "AMAGAD PARGUNZ R SO IMBA!!!!11!1intergerwhichprecedes2andexcedes1" gang and the "actuly i fink paragans need bufs" crew.
I predict Arkantos will lock this thread soon unless we start looking respectful and make nice helpful posts (in fact, no more are really needed). Thank you, anyone who has actually made such a post, by the way.
lustnlood
Academy Page
Join Date: Jan 2008
Me/
09 May 2008 at 08:17 - 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterSasori
ummm epic fail.
if you really wanna know why epic fail here you go...
when fightinh mobs 3 at a time and you have 7 or 8 all of which block like crazy no mater how imba your para is.... you cant get anything down and a timer sends ythe teams so imba OR NO IMBa ... the big centaur archers and warriors and shamans and hunters imba-ated me themselves
Tyla
Emo Goth Italics
Join Date: Sep 2006
09 May 2008 at 16:52 - 67
Rigor Mortis. It's quite sexy sometimes, and if there are enemies not blocking, targetswitch gogo. And just because of the Imbagon's huge defensive power, it doesn't mean that you can leeroy every group in the area.
And Mist, sorry your thread degenerated into a flamewar.
I'll leave it at this, if you really believe Paragons aren't imba, make a thread in Gladiator's Arena.
Asking whether or not Paragons are imbalanced or not.
Bobby2
Furnace Stoker
Join Date: Jun 2007
Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards
[MaSS]
W/E
09 May 2008 at 19:46 - 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by lustnlood
if you really wanna know why epic fail here you go...
when fightinh mobs 3 at a time and you have 7 or 8 all of which block like crazy no mater how imba your para is.... you cant get anything down and a timer sends ythe teams so imba OR NO IMBa ... the big centaur archers and warriors and shamans and hunters imba-ated me themselves
Can you plz start to make sense?
At the moment Team Everfrost (rank 180 atm or such) use a 5 man para [email protected] and they win quite a lot so dont tell me a 'full' para team is no good.
eF are bad. They got bought over by PvE'ers that are absolute crap, don't GvG anymore and are just...bad.
Heck, I don't even think they have GvG'd since it was bought, and if they did I believe they would've lost every single match they played to lose their rank.
And yeah, just because teams win doesn't mean they are good all the time, HoH has been won by a team with an SF 'Sin, and a gold cape is permanent, and can be bought and kept forever.
And every now and then I see a joke GvG team on observe...
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Parateams in gvg are a bit risky at maps in wich you can split a lot but pretty pwnage in halls like: Isle of the dread, Imperial Isle and Burning Isle.
The majority of maps include splitting, if not all. The flag.
Div
I like yumy food!
Join Date: Jan 2006
Where I can eat yumy food
Dead Alley [dR]
Mo/R
11 May 2008 at 09:26 - 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
Heck, I don't even think they have GvG'd since it was bought, and if they did I believe they would've lost every single match they played to lose their rank.
They tanked it from rank ~30 to wherever they are now when it got sold. I remember getting a champ point or two out of that.
The fact that Anet nerfed paragons since they released nightfall and continues to nerf paragons now shows just how overpowered paragons were, are, and will be.
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