People keep telling me I should bring Dwayna's Kiss instead of Orison when being HB in an Ursan group (Norn farming, Slavers' Exile).
Now how does an Ursan benefit from Dwayna's Kiss?
The only enchantment a HB build has that targets an ally is Seed of Life and/Or Healing Seed, and in both cases Dwayna's Kiss would only be an overheal if those enchantments are activated.
As for hexes it might be superior but hexes can also be unpredictable (some end on a certant action) and the only type of hex during Norn farming is a snare (there's always Scourge Healing but a hex removal would be superior over both Orison and Dwayna's Kiss)
And Dwayna's Kiss can't be targeted on the caster, so if the Monk is attacked it only has Ethereal Light which isn't exactly 100% flawless even with HB. A Monk that heals a little less is better then a dead Monk!
So my question is, why use Dwayna's Kiss over Orison when healing a bunch of Ursans?
Why use Dwayna's Kiss on an Ursan?
Alexandra-Sweet
zling
first of all Orison of Healing is just a bad skill. whenever people see other Monks use it it's usually FAIL Monk!
Dwayna's Kiss is just superior as it can grow very strong, and even if it doesn't it's still on par with Orison.
as for HB Monk in Ursan build, if you're taking damage than your team is doing something wrong... all your enemies are supposed to be on their asses most of the time...
Dwayna's Kiss is just superior as it can grow very strong, and even if it doesn't it's still on par with Orison.
as for HB Monk in Ursan build, if you're taking damage than your team is doing something wrong... all your enemies are supposed to be on their asses most of the time...
Tyla
If it's a hex heavy area, it's understandable.
If not, it's best going for something such as Patient Spirit or Words of Comfort.
Orison + HB = Glimmer of Light clone.
If not, it's best going for something such as Patient Spirit or Words of Comfort.
Orison + HB = Glimmer of Light clone.
ShadowsRequiem
Yah dwaynas is a much much much better skill than orison. I've only done slavers a few times but isnt there lots of hexes in some of the places? This makes dwaynas that much better
snaek
patient spirit ftw
(especially now that they fixed it, and now works properly wit hb)
(especially now that they fixed it, and now works properly wit hb)
Alexandra-Sweet
Quote:
Originally Posted by zling
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by snaek
patient spirit ftw
(especially now that they fixed it, and now works properly wit hb) Patient Spirit isn't really a direct heal, and an Ursan can die pretty fast because an average Ursan PuG rushes ahead of the Monk with Ursan Force and when the Monks arrive they are pretty much at 5%, I even have to take Jamei's Gaze to keep those little red bars above 60% (not to mention an Ursan running around in AoE, it's impossible to heal all 6 even with Heal Party x2!)
MisterT69
If you go to DoA or places like that w/heavy hexes, you can easily heal 500+ health with dwayna's kiss, making it more than powerful enough.
snaek
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandra-Sweet
Trust me, I sometimes take more damage then an Ursan when farming Norn points in Varajar Falls, Ursans have way more health and armor then a Monk so keeping aggro isn't that easy I guess.
try waiting jus a bit longer before u heal
(kiting may also help) nuthin really gets spiked too hard during the varajar falls run i.e. if u get in range to heal the ursan 600/700hp back up to 700/700hp ur more likely to break the aggro onto u rather if u wait for 400/700hp and heal to 600/700hp u'll less likely to break the aggro aggro bases it on current health, not max health so if they do a health check and see target 1 at 400/700hp and target 2 at 500/500hp they'll attack target 1
miskav
Hex + Your own enchants = Dwayna's autopwns's Orison.
Alex the Great
lol, have you ever monked in the underworld? you commonly heal for over 300 with dywana's
Alexandra-Sweet
Quote:
Originally Posted by snaek
(kiting may also help) i.e. if u get in range to heal the ursan 600/700hp back up to 700/700hp ur more likely to break the aggro onto u rather if u wait for 400/700hp and heal to 600/700hp u'll less likely to break the aggro aggro bases it on current health, not max health so if they do a health check and see target 1 at 400/700hp and target 2 at 500/500hp they'll attack target 1 |
Quote: Originally Posted by snaek nuthin really gets spiked too hard during the varajar falls run Overaggro, all enemy on 1 Ursan.
Dazehl Brainfreezer: An Ele boss specialized in Water Magic.
He can do 200dmg to 60AL with just [skill]Ice Spear[/skill] (+50% dmg because he's a boss and Hard Mode adds another 25% dmg and he has something like 20 Water Magic)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Alex the Great
lol, have you ever monked in the underworld? you commonly heal for over 300 with dywana's
I've never done UW with an Ursan Group before, but I do know that Dwayna's Kiss can heal a OB Tank for 600~
And as I said in my first post I'm only Monking in Varajar Fells and I've only been able to do Thomm, Selve And Rand in Slavers' Exile with an Ursan group so far.
legacyofkain85
i use patient folowed with dwayna´s for a nice chunk of heal ,i dont care about overhealling in pve i like it ,ofc no point in healling for such big chunk of hp when the target is taking little dmg
ivan.alicard
answer: at verajar falls usually don't need dwaynas kiss i would just bring ps as a pre prot for the healing lines. that and healing the ursan isn't that hard just need to find the one taking the most damage through in seed of life, couple heal here and there and your done. it shouldn't be that hard considering you have a second monk too to help out.
ps: ursan at varajar are slow noobs they won't agro fast enough, much easier if you have a leading ursan that runs a bit ahead of time. benefits is he gathers the aggro rather then having a few here and there fighting in 2-3 groups, second is its easier on the monk knowing who will take more damage and who to put seeds on.
legacyofkain85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandra-Sweet
Overaggro, all enemy on 1 Ursan. Dazehl Brainfreezer: An Ele boss specialized in Water Magic. He can do 200dmg to 60AL with just [skill]Ice Spear[/skill] (+50% dmg because he's a boss and Hard Mode adds another 25% dmg and he has something like 20 Water Magic) That is why pre prot is great.I belive he does more than 200 dmg tho to a 60 Al good thing he doesnt have shatterstone insted of mind freeze ,or vapor blade mistokibbles
Quote:
Originally Posted by zling
first of all Orison of Healing is just a bad skill. whenever people see other Monks use it it's usually FAIL Monk...
...if you're taking damage than your team is doing something wrong... all your enemies are supposed to be on their asses most of the time... Alexandra said why she would bring Orison over Kiss. You still have to be within range to cast spells on your ursans so anything could break aggro and go after you. Since she was norn point farming, there aren't many hexes if I remember correctly. The only ones in that area are from the ice imps right?
Winterclaw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandra-Sweet
Patient Spirit isn't really a direct heal, and an Ursan can die pretty fast because an average Ursan PuG rushes ahead of the Monk with Ursan Force and when the Monks arrive they are pretty much at 5%, I even have to take Jamei's Gaze to keep those little red bars above 60% (not to mention an Ursan running around in AoE, it's impossible to heal all 6 even with Heal Party x2!)
There's your problem. When they rush, I say let them die and when they do tell them "Here's your sign".
Div
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterclaw
There's your problem. When they rush, I say let them die and when they do tell them "Here's your sign".
I remember I used to do that in PUGs. Now I do it in GvGs instead. lol
Age
I will use DKiss if Reversal of Fortune is on my bar but if not I use Oisons as I have habbit of self tageting myself with it.Pugs want to run a head with Ursans is why I will take res.
MasterSasori
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterclaw
There's your problem. When they rush, I say let them die and when they do tell them "Here's your sign".
WFT
12 miserable char.
Cartoonhero
dwaynas is a good skill in hex heavy areas i like it in fow and uw and such.
i do understand what you're saying about etheral being a little sketchy even with hb, i've had stray hits land only to get inturrupted even after kiting away when i try to heal myself. taking dwaynas over orison just puts more faith in the other monk, if i know the other monk im coming with i generally take dwaynas, if its some random puggie i take orison in case they're not exactly awesome, so i dont drop dead when i have a stray mob come at me. patient spirit is a good skill if you use it correctly, 2 seconds isnt that long to wait for a huge heal, you just have to be proactive with it and use it before they're at 1/4 life.  as for orison being a 'horrible skill', its not, especially on an HB bar.
Mr Pink57
[Patient Spirit] + [Dwayna's Kiss] = great synergy
I'll even trust [Patient Spirit] as my self heal over [Orison of Healing] its a stronger heal and triggers on strip. pink XDeadboltX
There is plenty of room on a HB bar for Prot spirit so why not just bring something like [protective [email protected]] if your worried about spikes. As for orison I would rather bring [patient spirit] and [dwayna's kiss] ,as pink said above.
Tyla
Please specify why you think Orison is marginly good, then you're talking.
And Deadbolt, Ursanway doesn't require prots because of the high health and high armour. PSpirit would not be effective.
ender6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
And Deadbolt, Ursanway doesn't require prots because of the high health and high armour. PSpirit would not be effective.
I agree, but if you are one of those monks who can't find a good excuse to throw 5 heals on your bar, I recommend bringing [skill]shielding hands[/skill] and/or [skill]shield of absorption[/skill] and let's not forget [skill]vigorous spirit[/skill] (serves as a good cover).
XDeadboltX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
And Deadbolt, Ursanway doesn't require prots because of the high health and high armour. PSpirit would not be effective.
It was mainly just for when he said that the ele boss spikes.
Does [vigorous spirit] trigger on the ursan skills or just the attacks. Either way I suppose its good with d-kiss Tyla
No, it doesn't.
It only effects spells, and attacks. blackknight1337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyla
And Deadbolt, Ursanway doesn't require prots because of the high health and high armour. PSpirit would not be effective.
now, now, look who is talking. before you start being deragatory to people, might want to make sure you actually have a clue... 20 armor makes almost no difference against bosses...or a variety of other overpowered hm stuff..and 200 health aint a lot of difference either. I usually prefer having a prot spirit on my bar when i monk for any HM group, though most ursan newb groups will laugh at you and kick you if you ping anything with a prot spell on it. Tyla
Yeah I know, because when you've got people running around with roughly 700-800 health Protective Spirit is really going to do much. It's redundant at that point.
The armour is just an extra, but it still helps. You're also forgetting you can chain Ursan Roar for perma-Weakness, and knocklock them with Ursan Rage. One question though: How was that a deragatory statement? I could say that you telling me I'm clueless about it is deragatory. But then again I can say the same to you because you're missing out the extra layers of defense. Weakness and knockdowns.
Luminarus
Its a good skill with massive heal potential... why wouldnt u bring it?
miskav
About the PS with ursan discussion, using PS on a player with 800-900 health (And higher armour) Wouldn't reduce the damage, because there's like.. 1 situation out there where they'd get 100 or more damage per hit, and that's on a max'd out earth boss/fire boss, but still, to run it everywhere just for those few situations? I'd rather take something useful.
Age
Why not just use healers boon bar with patient spirit on it along with Kiss?
miskav
There are plenty of people who use that, Age.
It works pretty well. valence
Quote:
Originally Posted by miskav
About the PS with ursan discussion, using PS on a player with 800-900 health (And higher armour) Wouldn't reduce the damage, because there's like.. 1 situation out there where they'd get 100 or more damage per hit, and that's on a max'd out earth boss/fire boss, but still, to run it everywhere just for those few situations? I'd rather take something useful.
You bring PS for you mid(if it is there)-/backline. If a single guy HM breaks through you get 100+ dmg each hit from physcial damage dealers. Kiting in HM can backfire if not done properly (auto crits).
XDeadboltX
Quote:
Originally Posted by miskav
About the PS with ursan discussion, using PS on a player with 800-900 health (And higher armour) Wouldn't reduce the damage, because there's like.. 1 situation out there where they'd get 100 or more damage per hit, and that's on a max'd out earth boss/fire boss, but still, to run it everywhere just for those few situations? I'd rather take something useful.
Such as?? Most ppl would only have around 700 health as well I would imagine since most pugs tend to run about 500 health normally. Its nice to have for yourself as other people have said. The ursan groups I have been have not protected the monk from the melee, they just ignored the fact the monk was under attack.
Tyla
Even an Ursan is smart enough to know that s/he won't be running their attributes and having the skills of an Ursan.
afya
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandra-Sweet
Overaggro, all enemy on 1 Ursan.
Dazehl Brainfreezer: An Ele boss specialized in Water Magic. He can do 200dmg to 60AL with just [skill]Ice Spear[/skill] (+50% dmg because he's a boss and Hard Mode adds another 25% dmg and he has something like 20 Water Magic) If all enemy are on 1 Ursan, Seed of Life is your friend. An ursan has at least 70+ armor, there would be TONS of -2 -1 -0. Even with only 10% health(sometimes less), Seed of Life can heal to the top most of the time. If not, just add a Dwayna. The imp boss, [skill]Ice Spear[/skill] isn't his most powerful skill. Etereal light can heal for 100+. So [skill]Ice Spear[/skill]isn't that horrible. (Also, ice spear is half ranged, a monk shouldn't go that near to the boss i guess?) The craziness of that boss is his [skill]Mind Freeze[/skill] + [skill]maelstrom[/skill](100 dmg). Any of your healing are shut down, all you can do is to hope that the other monk can save you.
Hundbert
In an ursan party the team shouldn't take much damage.
The majority of the damage should be healed by monks chaining two skills: Seed of life and Healing seed. This is easily done even without voice chat by simply pinging when you use those two skills. Ursans should form a wall to protect the backline when fighting. Healing seed is highly effective here healing most of the ursans all the time. Patient/Orison/Heal other/Dwayna kiss can heal up any crap damage on a single party member while heal party deals with damage on multiply team members. Any enemy encounter should be over in a few seconds because of the brute power of ursans and the knockdowns so you're not really using many other skills than heal seed, heal party and seed of life with the occasional patient spirit thrown in. I don't know what the op Alexandra Sweet is smoking but slaver's has a pretty heavy amount of hexes so dwayna's kiss makes alot of sense. Even without hexes dwayna + patient = nice combo. Incandecree
I can see possibly using Dwayna's Kiss but I just don't have the room on my bar. I would rather have Patient Spirit. Sure Dwayna's can heal more than Cure Hex but removing the hex is a more urgent need usually. The downside is you don't have an immediate direct heal. With Ursans if they need an immediate high-powed heal it is usually them extending outside the Ursanball.
Patient Spirit (or Ethereal Light) for self-heal if needed. I prefer Patient Spirit Heal Party (I put this on the bar because people want it. Rarely use it) Seed of Life Healing Seed Healer's Boon Cure Hex Glyph of Swiftness Rez Chant Don't forget that if you have GoS and both seeds you can have a seed up on someone almost all the time. Example: GoS + SoL (r10 Sunspear) + 20% enchant will get you 6 seconds on an 19 second recharge. Then cast HS... 12 seconds on a 19 second recharge. Coverage is 18 seconds out of 19 seconds. Of course this depends on the situation. If you were PUGging FoW with Ursan groups don't forget the Essense of Celerity. Put that on top of GoS and you have seeds on crack. I will say that I have Heal Party on the bar just because everyone else wants you to have it and the times that I have used it it was because I hit the wrong skill. 2 monks with the seeds in FoW in those groups is good; 1 of the monks with GoS pumping out the seeds 25% faster still helps alot. One thing that I have noticed more times than not is that Healer's Boon is up. I would say about 75% of the time HB is down. Seems to me that I could diversify the bar a bit if I didn't have to have HB and Heal Party. I have thought about using Glyph of Renewal. Something about a SoL every 8 seconds (glyph cast time + 25% faster recharge from celerity) is pretty good. The problem with using Renewal is that it would be on the bar just for SoL and that maybe a waste of a skill slot. ivan.alicard
well for verajar falls where there is not alot of hex and hb don't use much enchantment i would throw dwayna's kiss. heres the bar i run.
(heal ribbon) optional use when party wide heal is out and emergency (ethereal light) main single heal (patient spirit) pre prots spell from the heal line not to mention ps+ethereal light = spike heal (seed of life + healing seed) mob are usually dead by the time these two are chained :/ basic gole plus heal party hb of course. (don't bring res because ursan should all have a res and 8 people carrying res in an ursan group is just redundant, if monk is only 1 left its much faster to just die and respawn) for the protect spirit deal, i think thats just stupid lol :/ you should have your devine and heal max up, with high health the ursan can take a hit and your fast heal from hb not to mention double should be more then enough to heal, not to mention you have a second monk to back you up:/
Laylat
If you're going to run [Protective Spirit], it would be for yourself (the monk). There were a lot of times where I got attacked by mobs because of bad agro. In this way, [Dwayna's Kiss] would heal you move effectively if the other monk uses it on you (along with any other enchantments).
Personally, I never ran an HB monk while farming norn points with heal party. The other monk has it 90% of the time and I concertrate on spike healing. This is why I don't carry Orison. Dwayna's Kiss has much more healing potential in the frozen lake area where agro control might go out of hand. If you're concerned about self-heals, you can use [Healing Touch] and/or patient spirit. If energy management is a problem (and it has been for me due to not using Glyph of Lesser Energy), you can have a 15/-1 set. Fights with an Ursan team rarely drains your energy, though. |
