FPS ceiling?

I just got a new Dell XPS laptop:

Core 2 Duo Extreme @ 2.8Ghz
4 GB ram
GeForce 8800 GTX X2 (w/SLI)
400 GB hard drive w/RAID 0
17" monitor with 1920 X 1200 native resolution

I seem to be hitting a ceiling of 60 FPS in GW though. On 1920 X 1200 res with 4 X AA and all other setting maxed, I get 60 FPS. If I drop the res down and turn off AA, I get the same 60 FPS. Turning SLI mode on/off doesn't change the FPS either. Weird.

In heavy combat, it drops to about 50 FPS.

Does anyone else find it odd that FPS on GW with this system isn't higher? Of course 60 FPS is a very nice experience, but I wanted to make sure everything was as it should be. Guess I was expecting a bit more.

Vertical synchronization is the key

i've got a similar set-up just 2 8500's in SLI and mine is goin idle @ about 71-72 FPS and when in combat it drops to maybe 65 or so. Maybe its because i'm running it @ 1024 x 768. see if running it at different resolutions changes it.

Hit F11 then graphic setting, uncheck V-Sync and you'll see triple digits FPS.

Most games are actually programmed to limet at 60fps, so, its almost unavoidable, just turn on you anti aliasing to 4x and enjoy what most can't ^.^

Its because your default refresh rate is 60mhz. Change this to the max and you shouldn't have a problem. If you still do, you got another problem.

I have less spec on my box and I hit 85-90fps in High/High. So try changing your refresh in display setting and in game, see if that helps.
Oh and btw Vsync will hurt performance on some machines. Vsync is a frame limiter in essence, as it forces FPS to your Max refresh rate that is set. In your case its 60mhz(default) so if you have vsync on, it will limit it to a max of 60fps.

Edit: I meant hertz not Mhz lol, that would be awesome to have an FPS of 60,000 haha.

Or, to put it another way, V-synch locks the FPS to the refresh rate of your monitor.

I think

^ Yep, pretty much. And I forget to mention, you'll need to set your monitor to highest refresh rate it can go as well, just like what Irish said.

V-sync is mostly only use to fix tearing effect on the screen anyway. Y'know, when the top and the buttom half is not catching up when you turn left or right.

How is this putting it another way? Its exactly what I just said

V-Sync off didn't do anything. It uncapped my FPS at lower resolutions (like 108 FPS at 1400X res) but on 1900X res I'm still getting the same 50-ish FPS.

Also, my refresh rate is at 60 Hz (which is max) both in the game and in the computer's settings.

If you can live with it turn down the AA, or turn it off. Personally it hurts my eyes so I always turn it off.

I highly doubt 60hz is your max refresh, unless its an old dosbox. LCD's generally have a max of 75 depending on the manufacturer.

60 is max. It actually is a really stunning display. Maybe on a lower res there's a higher refresh rate though.

Let me explain V-sync a bit more. Basically your monitor can only update itself a certain number of times per second. This is your refresh rate. Lets assume it is at 60 hz, although it can possibly go up further. The important thing to remember is that the screen isn't updated all at once, at 60 hz it takes 1/60th of a second to update the entire screen, meaning that the bottom of your screen is updated 1/60th of a second after the top of your screen.

This ends up presenting some problems at times. At an FPS below 60 or at 60, you won't really notice a thing. But above 60 FPS, your graphics card is actually updating itself in between monitor refreshes. Lets say you have 120 FPS now. The problem is that your video card is updating 2x as fast as the monitor can refresh, so you end up seeing half of your screen displaying one frame, and the other half of your screen displaying the next. If the screen has moved during that frame, you can experience image 'tearing', meaning the image appears to have been shifted because you are seeing two different frames put together.

What V-Sync does is syncronizes your graphics card to update only at the beginning of each time the monitor refreshes. This makes sure that you are only seeing complete frames, not two spliced together.

All well and good, right? Not quite. V-Sync works great when your graphics card is speeding ahead and always updating faster then your monitor. However, if your graphics card can handle only, say, 50 FPS, and your monitor is displaying at 60 Hz, we have a big problem. Since the frames have to be syncronized to the monitor, you end up only getting 30 FPS, because the graphics card has to refresh in equal time intervals with the monitor. That means if you can't reach 60 Hz, if you are even only at 59 FPS, your FPS drops down to 1/2 of 60 = 30 FPS. If your graphics card can only reach 29 FPS, your real FPS drops down to 1/3rd of 60 = 20 FPS.

So to sum it up: If you have a really high FPS, leave V-Sync on and if possible just increase your monitor's refresh if it can support it. Image tearing without it can get pretty annoying, and there isn't much good to be had from triple digit FPS. For people who are at lower FPS'es, there is no real reason to have V-Sync on because it can artificially lower your FPS and you aren't really experiencing any image tearing in the first place for V-Sync to help with.

Depending on the resolution when it comes to TFT...

Alright, I had SLI turned off during the previous test.

With SLI on, at 1920 X 1200 resolution, all max settings, and no V-sync, I'm getting about 75-80 FPS. At any lower resolution FPS soars over the 100 mark. But the game just looks so much better at 1920.

V-sync is a good thing to have on. I definitely get tearing if I look back and forth quickly. Tearing = annoying.

With V-sync on, I'm getting 60 FPS everywhere, with no dip no matter how big of a battle is going on. I think that experiencing a constant FPS is an underrated goal. It makes everything very smooth and immersive.

-----------------------

EDIT: No V-Sync got me another 10-15 FPS with less fluctuation on my desktop computer running GW. (Athlon 64 3200+, 1 GB OCZ ram, GeForce 7600, 85 Hz monitor refresh rate, XP Home). I was dipping down to around 26 FPS in battles, now I get a relatively constant 42 FPS which isn't bad at all for this old rig...

Did some research, this is from the Dell Website:

Max Resolution: 1920x1200 (WUXGA)
Max Sync Rate (V x H): 76 Hz x 81 kHz

Hopes that helps with your max rate issue. Also some monitors allow you to actually run at a lower res and have a higher refresh. Your bottle-neck might also be your GFX card, as most have specific Max refresh rates. So maybe your gfx card has a max of 60hz Not sure about the Dell though.

On the other hand, it could also be your system not updating textures fast enough, witch also causes "tearing". Have you -imaged and defraged? B/c your system can't push those textures, it will emulate another problem (IE tearing, lag etc)

Nice explanation there, simple and straightforward. Thanks

hehe I sense sarcasm I'm the IT Admin for UNH, and if I ever tried explaining it that way to a User I know for a fact I'll get the "Huh? WtF" look. Very good explanation, don't get me wrong. But I think you just caused a synaptic overload . K.I.S.S = Keep it simple Simon, or some other silly anagram.

P.S. Not flaming, just trying to make light of the situation

Is sync rate the same as refresh rate?

I'm not going to run at a lower res. 1920x1200 has a real "wow" quality to it.

I'm certain that the GeForce 8800 GTX doesn't have a max refresh rate as low as 60hz.

Yes, I've -imaged and defragged. It's also a dual 7200 RAID 0 hard drive setup, so I'm not thinking it's that kind of problem

Yes, max Sync rate is the same. They just like to add the +1hz for a margin because over time it will fluctuate. You technicly aren't running at exactly 75hz its more like V75.96xH80.96 variable.
I also just remembered that there should be a Option Button on Display Properties --> Settings --> Advanced --> Monitor --> option called "Hide modes this monitor can't display", Click this and if you have your monitor drivers installed (not "Default Monitor") it should tell you what it supports.
Wow idk why I didn't say that earlier, guess I need some more coffee ;p

Dell doesn't have a monitor driver for the 1730 as far as I can tell. I think I might be stuck with default.

I'd like to (again) point out that anything over 60fps is really just "hype" anyway. You won't actually notice any difference.

60FPS is normal if the onboard video is going through a DVI-interface. DVI caps out at 60fps for WUXGA resolutions on a single link if I remember correctly. Wikipedia has more details on this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface

There is actually a very good reason for running no faster than 60hz vertical refresh: to protect the LCD from premature pixel death. LCD's do not strobe-refresh like CRT's. Instead, they maintain constant luminance until instructed to change color modes. As a result, they don't need the high refresh rates like CRT's to remain flicker free because they don't flicker anyway. However, LCD pixels have a much lower total color-mode switch life expectancy compared to CRT's, so higher vertical refresh rates will wear LCD's out faster.

60hz on an LCD looks better than a CRT at 85+hz, and I've found no discernable performance difference in my Quake/UT kill scores using either. Best of all, LCD's are much easier on your eyes due to their no-flicker image output.

If you want to protect your notebook's LCD, you can go a step further by using an external display whenever possible.

EDIT: Congratz on the XPS-purchase

Graphics cards don't _have_ a refresh rate, they are purely limited by the speed at which they can process the image. If the image is simple enough that card could get into 1000s with you staring at a blank wall. Just leave V-sync on, constant 60 FPS is just fine and tearing can really annoy you after you have gotten used to playing without it.

K.I.S.S = Keep It Simple, Stupid!
I figured the OP had a decent enough knowledge of computers from the first post, and you can just skip the whole explanation and go straight to the last paragraph if you want to read my suggestion.

You sense wrong

Aye, I agree.

Having over 60 FPS is utterly pointless, remember people, big numbers don't always matter.

My video card has achieved over 650+ FPS without Vertical Sync on in Guild Wars, but who needs that much frames? 60 is all you need, you don't want tearing either, it's ugly.

And just to add to what Lord_Shar said, LCD panels take up much less space, allowing you to put it in a small space, or have multiple on one surface without taking up tons of space. But that is all just obvious, I'm so glad I have LCD panels though.

I have left my 19 inch Full Screen on for over 2 and a half years, 24/7 and it's still in top notch quality, it doesn't produce that much heat.

However my 22 inch wide screen produces more heat, so I turn it off, I don't want the heat to deteriorate it's health, heat is bad.

I've never understood why people say higher refresh rates on crt's are flicker free. Because in my experiences it's quite the opposite. On the CRT's i've used pretty much all of them actually flicker MORE at 70, 75, 85, etc hz. 60hz is the only flicker free mode.

The above is probably true if you're in a room running fluorencent lamps at 60hz AC power (these also strobe based on AC electrical frequency). You may notice more CRT display flicker if your monitor's refresh rate is out-of-sync with the surrounding ambient electrical light sources.

Yeah I realize that as FPS increases you get diminishing returns. A constant 60 FPS on this rig at 1920x1200 res is a really nice, immersive experience.

I guess it all depends on what you're used to. I am so used to 85 so when I look at any other monitor with a lower rate my eyes burn lol. Some people are 180 and they are more comfortable with a lower refresh.

All I did was pull the info directly from dells website, and I said that. Don't kill the messenger. Its not like I was pulling numbers out of the air, I actually did research(which is uncommon here).

And me talking about gfx card refresh, yeah i have no idea wtf I was saying (typed it at the wrong time), one of the calculus profs just came in and told me she ran over her laptop. So my brain is all jumbly today ;p

This guy always this harsh? Lol chill out man have a beer or whatever you like.

+1 for FPS is capped to the refresh rate of the monitor when vertical sync is on

Guild Wars does have an SLi profile with Nvidia, meaning that there were some plans for SLi support, but it currently does NOT support SLi.

There also have been instances where lag caused when multiple cards have been SLi'ed while running Guild Wars.